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Microsoft: We'll Help Customers Create Patents But We Get a License To Use Them (zdnet.com)

Posted by msmash on from the catch-22 dept.

Microsoft outlined a new intellectual-property policy on Thursday for co-developed technology that embraces open source and seeks to assure customers it won't run off with their innovations. From a report: The shared innovation principles build on its Azure IP Advantage program for helping customers combat patent trolls. The new principles for co-developed innovation cover ownership of existing technology, customer ownership of new patents, support for open source, licensing new IP back to Microsoft, software portability, transparency, and learning. Microsoft president Brad Smith says the principles aim to assuage customers' fears that Microsoft may end up using co-developed technology to rival them.

[...] In return, Microsoft gets to license back any of the patents in the new technology but promises to limit their use to improving its own platform technologies, such as Azure, Azure AI services, Office 365, Windows, Xbox, and HoloLens. It also reserves the right to use "code and tools developed by or on behalf of Microsoft that are intended to provide technical assistance to customers in their respective businesses."

26 of 52 comments (clear)

  1. The irony is thick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A patent troll saying they'll help you with patents? This is rich, even for Microsoft.

    1. Re:The irony is thick by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A patent troll saying they'll help you with patents? This is rich, even for Microsoft.

      *Shrug* . . . it's basically the same deal if you work for a large enough company that has a patent department.

      It's your idea . . . your name is on the patent . . . but then it says, "Assigned To: [your employer]" in the title information.

      In my case, I received some cash awards for the patents . . . but who knows what they are really worth to my employer.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:The irony is thick by slew · · Score: 1

      A patent troll saying they'll help you with patents? This is rich, even for Microsoft.

      Given that they say they will require you to licence-back the patents for use in their products, it might be more fair to say that they are helping themselves to your patents...

      Which is more in line to what you might expecting...

    3. Re:The irony is thick by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      Says the AC....

      Seriously, Microsoft has done shady legal shit in the past (and present) but none of it was of the patent troll pattern of shaking people down on obvious patents unlike the action we've seen from NPEs against small developers. If you have an example that I've missed of MS doing that, post it. If not, STFU.

    4. Re:The irony is thick by Shompol · · Score: 4, Informative
      Gee, I don't know where to start... Microsoft gets a few bucks off every Android set ever sold. Microsoft.... Android? Because Microsoft threatens manufacturers to throw an undisclosed number of patents if they don't pay up. Undisclosed, not because there are some specific ones infringed, but because MS can keep throwing until payout does not look so bad.

      And this is only one obvious troll. They usually troll under shell companies so cannot be linked to MS directly. This being probably most famous one. I know of a few others, and probably many more that we don't know about because we only know of the ones that leaked by accident.

    5. Re:The irony is thick by Solandri · · Score: 2

      That's actually one of the differences between working as an employee or a contractor. Everyone likes to trash talk contractor jobs, but if you're an employee then any IP you create belongs to your employer. If you're working as a contractor and come up with something on your own that's outside the scope of what you were contracted to do (i.e. not a work for hire), then it belongs to you. A company could try weaseling a clause into your contract saying any IP you develop belongs to them, but intellectual property is one of the benchmarks the IRS uses to determine employee or contractor classification. So any company doing that risks an IRS audit determining you were an employee and not a contractor, and being on the hook for back pay and benefits.

      It's the standard risk-reward tradeoff. Being an employee is low risk (guaranteed paycheck), but likewise the reward is low (stuff you create belongs to your employer). A contractor (basically a small business owner) is high risk (pay is on a per-job basis and not guaranteed), but likewise the reward is high (you own what you create unless you were specifically commissioned to create it).

    6. Re:The irony is thick by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      That's actually one of the differences between working as an employee or a contractor. Everyone likes to trash talk contractor jobs, but if you're an employee then any IP you create belongs to your employer.

      What is more, every contract I've signed gave them the right to all of my inventions forever, even after leaving the companies. Probably wouldn't hold up in court, but if there was enough money involved, I'm certain they'd all try to claim it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. For a fee... by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...Microsoft will troll you with your own patents. It's a superb get-rich-quick scheme.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:For a fee... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      If I had to guess, they've got lawyers on salary. Effectively, they've already been budged in advance. What do you got? Even if you win, you lose. They could financially bleed you dry until you give up.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  3. License back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "You have developed an incredibly innovative piece of software! We'll help you patent it. All we ask is that we license it from you. Here is our standard contract that everyone signs. "

    So, you start skimming through the hundreds of pages of legalese - the lawyer wanted $300/hr - and you discover that Microsoft will pay you $1 for perpetuity.

    I don't give a shit WTF they SAY, it's what is in writing that counts.

    1. Re:License back? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What I find more to the point, what is the long term support of this? Say I make an innovative piece of software, however it was outside Microsoft scope, 19 years later will they still help me protect my patent?

      Or say I want to license it to an other company say Apple? In that mess of legalese will I have the right to do so? And what is to say the Current Nice Guy image of Microsoft regresses back to Bully Microsoft that we seen with Gates and Balmer.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:License back? by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      What I find more to the point, what is the long term support of this? Say I make an innovative piece of software, however it was outside Microsoft scope, 19 years later will they still help me protect my patent?

      In patent, you pay maintenance fees at each mark year (3.5, 7.5, and 11.5 years of patent life time starting from the filing date). If they (MS) are paying all the maintenance fees (including year 11.5), then your example would have no meaning because they definitely will help you protect your patent at 19th year. If they don't pay but you do, then your example is still null because they won't care if anyone infringes your patent because they aren't the one who is being financially damaged (but you). Besides, they just use your patent as their safe harbor if anyone is trying to sue them on the similar technology of your patent.

      Or say I want to license it to an other company say Apple? In that mess of legalese will I have the right to do so? And what is to say the Current Nice Guy image of Microsoft regresses back to Bully Microsoft that we seen with Gates and Balmer.

      That would depends on how they "license" your patent. If they put their name as an "assignee" of the patent, then you are very unlikely to be able to license your patent to someone else by your own but rather have to go through them. As a result, you won't be able to license it to someone else (you know why). If they don't put themselves as assignee, then you are very likely to license it to whoever you want. However, I'm quite sure that they will take advantage and want you to sign other legal things because they want to restrict you on how you can license your patent. Why would they want competitors to get the same benefits from your patent when they help you to get the patent?

  4. Sounds like a protection racket to me by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's a nice piece of tech you've got there, shame if something.. happened to it, say, from a patent troll. But your good old Uncle Microsoft is here to help you out, isn't that great? Since you're such a good guy, we don't even want anything from you -- we just want to help! -- but it would be nice if you'd let us use your technology, you know, just to make our own stuff work a little better.

    1. Re:Sounds like a protection racket to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We promise we won't sell as a competitor to you. Nope, no way that we'll use our billions of dollars to outproduce you. Never.

    2. Re:Sounds like a protection racket to me by skids · · Score: 1

      Yeah...

      promises to limit their use to improving its own platform technologies

      ...are only as solid as the spongy definition of "platform technologies"

      --
      Someone had to do it.
  5. Dumb Dumb Remember Spyglass, everyone? by ckaminski · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To anyone choosing to suck on this carrot, may I remind everyone what happened with Internet Explorer and Sypglass?

    1. Re:Dumb Dumb Remember Spyglass, everyone? by thegreatbob · · Score: 2

      Blast from the past... I had never really read much into their relationship, but I guess Spyglass licensed Mosaic code and trademark from NCSA, but went on to develop their own codebase, which was in turn licensed to Microsoft. Microsoft seems to have come out rather well in that deal, all in all, despite having been sued (and a resulting settlement of 8 million USD on top of the initial 2 million) in the process.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  6. While I'm skeptical about the service.. by Junta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If I were a technology company, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near other people's future without something like a license to use the patents.

    I would be in great fear that someone in my company would do something that resembles a private draft of a patent one of those users is working on. This happens all the time by coincidence, but having access to customer research/draft prior to patent application just raises a lot more suspicion if you happen to do the same or similar thing as that research goes to.

    If you want a service to help you with patents and you want to keep control of it, you go to a legal company, not a technology company that is likely to have a conflict of interest.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:While I'm skeptical about the service.. by Junta · · Score: 1

      future patents I meant.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  7. Bold Face Lies are in fashion these days by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

    "We'll help out with the legal aspect so developers don't have to worry about it. Trust us".

    Microsoft lies, news at 11.

  8. Open Letter to Hobbyists by o_ferguson · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    This is pretty fucked coming from the company that invented the bullshit notion of corporate code IP. Eat a sack of dick-meat sammiches.

    --
    - In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
  9. // FIXME by doragasu · · Score: 1

    The fact that a *private* corporation is (supposedly) trying to fix the patent system, means that it is extremely broken.

  10. China ??? by sit1963nz · · Score: 1

    Is MS now owned by China, because that seems to be one of the complaints Trump has with China, US firms being forced to handover Stuff for free.

  11. I am sure speak for a lot of people ... by Improbus · · Score: 1

    when I say f*ck you Microsoft.

  12. Dont use Microsoft by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    when your thinking.
    Use Microsoft products to play computer games.
    Use a real OS to work on your patent. Ensure you get your patent.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  13. GPL by bigtreeman · · Score: 1

    For any programmer who hasn't heard of GPL3, just give your IP to Micro$oft.
    Bend over and take it like a man.

    --
    Go well