Microsoft Will Bring 64-Bit App Support To ARM-Based PCs In May (engadget.com)

Microsoft's general manager for Windows, Erin Chappie, told Engadget today that an SDK for ARM64 apps will be announced at the upcoming Build developer's conference in May. From the report: With the new SDK, developers would be able to natively recompile their apps to run in 64-bit on ARM-based PCs like the ASUS NovaGo. This opens up app support for the platform, which previously only supported 32-bit apps. The potentially greater app compatibility is welcome, since this was one of the biggest drawbacks of Windows on Snapdragon devices. But whether you'll get the higher performance that you'd typically expect out of 64-bit apps will depend on the Snapdragon 835 CPU that powers the current generation of the PCs in question. Connected PCs ship with Windows 10 S, but Microsoft has been offering free upgrades to Windows 10 Pro through 2019, making the OS more familiar and versatile. The ARM 64 SDK will be available for both Store apps and desktop versions (.exes). Ultimately, it'll be up to developers to decide whether they want to go to the trouble of recompiling their apps for Windows on Snapdragon, but Microsoft at least appears to be making strides in creating as open and useful a platform as possible.

Comments

Only apps can app apps!

[Anonymous Coward]

Appsoft knows that only apps can app apps, which is why they're only apping appy 64-bit apps and not 64-bit LUDDITE software on App Runtime Modules!

Apps!

Major caveat: Windows Store only

[Myria]

They're talking about Windows Store only here, which if you don't want to pay Microsoft 30% of your revenue, or don't want to have to use their application patching system, is bad.

Visual Studio 2017 does support making ARM64 desktop applications with a bit of hackery, but you'll face an uphill battle, and it definitely won't be supported. As an example of the issues you face, MFC for ARM64 is not provided.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[b0s0z0ku]

With Microsoft's great security record, there will likely be ways to work around the store mandate.

(And yes, Apple/Jobs were pieces of cr@p for pioneering the walled-garden/computer-as-Alcatraz model of computing.)

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[mentil]

To be fair, Steam also takes 30%, so it makes little difference for game developers. Sure, you can distribute through other digital game stores, but the ones that don't also take 30% aren't nearly as popular as Steam. If you're Notch, and invented a new game genre with no competitors, and are riding the wave of a new way to experience games (Let's Plays narrated by Youtube personalities) then you can sell the game exclusively through your own website, with a processor that takes only 3%, and still become a billionaire. But pretty much noone else has pulled that off.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[b0s0z0ku]

You can distribute from your own corporate site or even via BitTorrent (with licensing controlled by your site) and not pay a dime to MS or Steam. So lockdown to "approved stores" is a big deal.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[rsilvergun]

MFC for ARM64 is not inflicted upon you

FTFY.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[behrooz0az]

It's about exposure for the developer(specially indies) and for the customer it's about the guaranty that they have reviewed or at least scanned the application in some way. It matters for some people.
I don't use windows so I don't really care. This is what I imagine is the reason.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[b0s0z0ku]

It should be an option, not crammed down customers' and developers' throats by force by Microsoft (or Apple, or Google, or Amazon).

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[Billly Gates]

They're talking about Windows Store only here, which if you don't want to pay Microsoft 30% of your revenue, or don't want to have to use their application patching system, is bad.

Visual Studio 2017 does support making ARM64 desktop applications with a bit of hackery, but you'll face an uphill battle, and it definitely won't be supported. As an example of the issues you face, MFC for ARM64 is not provided.

Citation? The last I looked I saw ARM on the SDKs during a Visual Studio 2017 not to mention MS wanted Windows Phone to take off.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[UnknownSoldier]

> If you're Notch, and invented a new game genre

  Notch did NOT invent a new genre; he even admitted he blatantly ripped off Infiminer

Like most evenings after work, Markus was on the computer when he stumbled upon an indie game he hadn't tried before. It was called Infiniminer. Markus downloaded the game, installed and clicked it into motion, and then almost fell off his chair. "Oh my God," he thought. "This is genius."

https://youtu.be/F9t3FREAZ-k

In early May 2009, Markus uploaded a video recording (above) of a very early version of Minecraft on YouTube. It didn't look like much more than a half-finished system for generating worlds and Markus gleefully jumping around inside it, but still, the essence of it hinted at how the game might look when it was done.

"This is a very early test of an Infiniminer clone I'm working on. It will have more resource management and materials, if I ever get around to finishing it," -- Notch, May 2009

Zach, the creater of Infiminer, said this about Minecraft:

"The act of borrowing ideas is integral to the creative process. There are games that came before Infiniminer, and there are games that will come after MineCraft. That's how it works."

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[mcl630]

TFA says the ARM64 SDK will be available for both Store and traditional desktop applications.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[tepples]

Unless you're trying to port an existing MFC application, such as FamiTracker.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[drinkypoo]

Notch did NOT invent a new genre; he even admitted he blatantly ripped off Infiminer

And ironically, You can get Minecraft: Story Mode on Steam, although to be fair that postdates Notch's sellout to Microsoft (after having promised to eventually open source the game). Notch is just a big liar, but I'm sure he's sleeping fine on his Scrooge McDuck-scale pile of cash.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[mentil]

I actually checked out Infiniminer when it came out, before Minecraft existed. It's comparable to Creation Mode in Minecraft, which was more complete at first than Survival Mode. Sure, a huge part of Minecraft's early appeal was "look at what someone made in Minecraft!" but another large part was the "Let's Play"s of survival mode. IMO creation mode is less interesting than survival mode.

If we're talking about Minecraft's influences, you should also mention Dwarf Fortress.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[Anonymous Coward]

The ARM 64 SDK will be available for both Store apps and desktop versions (.exes)

Doesn't look like it's just UWP store apps?

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[UnknownSoldier]

Thanks for tracking down that Open Source Minecraft "promise" from Notch. I remembered reading it but couldn't remember where.

Yeah, I guess everyone found what it took for Notch to sell out his values: $2.5 Billion. (It's almost as if when Microsoft asked Notch how much he wanted for Mojang he probably jokingly said: 2^31. MS thought about it and replied "How about we round it up for an cool $2.5B?" But again MS is a dumb-ass company that paid $8.5 Billion for Skype.)

Ironically, Notch is not sleeping fine -- probably because he recognizes he's a sell out -- he lived the American (software) dream: Started a company and got bought out by a bigger one for an ungodly amount of money. And now he realizes that materialism is shallow. Go figure.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article...

"Hanging out in ibiza with a bunch of friends and partying with famous people, able to do whatever I want, and I've never felt more isolated,"

The sad part is Minecraft has only scratched 1% of its potential yet Mojang doesn't really seem to understand what the community wants:

* A modding API (people are sick and tired of de-compiling the Minecraft source code that breaks mods *every* version)
* Depth of items and crafting. It is ironic that Terraria (pardon the pun) has way more depth, both literally, and figuratively with crafting then Minecraft.

/sarcasm "But, hey, we get tridents in 1.13!"

Big Fucking Deal.

Where is the ability to have different colored wooden chests? Or barrels?

I'm surprised someone hasn't made a Terraria + Minecraft clone yet.

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[Anonymous Coward]

I will never create content for the windows store nor would I ever install applications from it... no matter what platforms we are talking about :-)

I am pretty sure the Windows Store is dead and the way Microsoft is acting, will ensure that it stays dead...

They will already need a miracle to get it relevant assuming they were doing everything they could to get people to use it, this would involve PAYING people to make content and NOT take 30% of the revenue and NOT steal peoples data and NOT make devices that are locked to using only the windows store and all the other stupid stupid mistakes they are making

Re:Major caveat: Windows Store only

[Anonymous Coward]

With Microsoft's great security record, there will likely be ways to work around the store mandate.

(And yes, Apple/Jobs were pieces of cr@p for pioneering the walled-garden/computer-as-Alcatraz model of computing.)

I agree,,, not only did they pioneer this on the software side, but also on the hardware side... For example...
lack of replaceable battery to ensure people buy new phones when the batty dies...
lack of SD card to ensure people buy the exptra expensive models with more storage...
lack of mini jack and other ports to ensure people buy a ton of dongles and expensive but poor wireless earbuds...
lack of any interesting feature that was found on Android phones up to around 2015, now those are history thanks to Apple's persistence and "trendsetting"

Apple has a long record of doing bad things...

Already have 64bit apps.

[Kenja]

Just not with Windows.

how's that raspberry pi version coming along?

[Anonymous Coward]

microsoft as usual will give us a half-hearted effort on a non-x86 platform and abandon it after a short while.

Re:how's that raspberry pi version coming along?

[b0s0z0ku]

Hopefully -- the alternative is more locked-down ARM hardware being rammed down the public's raw gullet. Secure boot should be optional, locking it down to Windows shouldn't be mandatory.

Re:how's that raspberry pi version coming along?

[Anonymous Coward]

itanium rocked bra.

Intel in Deep Shit

[mentil]

Between this, and Macs moving away from Intel CPUs (and reportedly to ARM as well), Intel is in deep trouble, their low-power CPUs in particular. Pretty much anything open-source will be recompiled for Windows on ARM, legacy proprietary apps will be about the only thing propping up x86, and emulation will serve for anything not performance-critical. The latest ARM chips are on a smaller node than the latest Intel chips, and have been for a while, so Intel no longer has a process advantage compared to the ARM manufacturers. I wonder if anyone will start producing larger ARM chips that have the power of the larger Intel chips.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[Billly Gates]

Intel is going NOWHERE. I am an old 41 year old far. I have seen the rise and fall of PowerPC, Risk Alpha, original Macs, PowerMacs ala modern Mac osx macs, smart phones, smart terminals, network computers, java, Itanium, even Linux.

Guess what? Every competitor has failed or not taken away the marketshare away from Windows and Intel. x86 is here to stay as long as corporations need their applications.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[mentil]

Billy Gates advocating Wintel? Who would've guessed?!

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[pi_rules]

... and Macs moving away from Intel CPUs

Wait, that wasn't an April Fools joke? Holy shit! I better go find some kind of tech news website to read up about this!

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[Bert64]

They said the same about IBM mainframes.
They said the same about DEC VAX.
They said the same about Sun.

Intel and Microsoft exist because they attacked from the low end, and provided a cheaper more readily available product, made money through economies of scale and were able to fund more research. ARM is doing the same thing.

Also the market is evolving, away from standalone desktops and towards thin clients connected to third party services. What's running on the client is becoming less and less important.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[Billly Gates]

The market is stagnant. Desktop legacy apps will always be wintel. Android arm is mobile .

The choice has been made and we have history to show us that you can't change standards. WinArm maybe a nice server role in a farm somewhere but that's it. Your examples have all failed. IBM is for mainframes. Always has always will.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[phantomfive]

"Moving away from Intel" doesn't mean they are moving away from x86. There are plenty of other manufacturers/designers for x86 chips (including Apple, apparently).

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[serviscope_minor]

I have seen the rise and fall of [...] smart phones [...] even Linux

Fall of smartphones and Linux, what?

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Between this, and Macs moving away from Intel CPUs (and reportedly to ARM as well), Intel is in deep trouble, their low-power CPUs in particular. Pretty much anything open-source will be recompiled for Windows on ARM, legacy proprietary apps will be about the only thing propping up x86, and emulation will serve for anything not performance-critical. The latest ARM chips are on a smaller node than the latest Intel chips, and have been for a while, so Intel no longer has a process advantage compared to the ARM manufacturers. I wonder if anyone will start producing larger ARM chips that have the power of the larger Intel chips.

Intel deserves a good long taste of humiliation to atone for their crimes against technology... I hope that they get in to so much trouble that they become underdog to AMD!

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[thegarbz]

Guess what? Every competitor has failed or not taken away the marketshare away from Windows and Intel. x86 is here to stay as long as corporations need their applications.

Do you say that as a joke, or out of ignorance, or are you intentionally abusing statistics? The change in the market over the past 20 years has seen meteoric decline in the use of Wintel (remember that name) for what people consider computing.

Windows / Microsoft has a market share online of less than 35% now with the majority taken up by tablet computers.
Intel stopped being the largest manufacturer of processors this year overtaken by Samsung.

And both of these stats happen while tablet / phone devices are still being considered toys and people still look to PCs for "real" work. Chromebooks are starting to show the world an alternative way of doing "real work", the only thing that is missing there is the software. And you can be damn sure that the makers of major software are taking note starting to add full blown functionality to not only mobile apps, but tablet dedicated apps too.

Side note: Stifel has downgraded Intel from a Buy rating to a Hold rating yesterday due to expectation that not only the PC dominance is over, but their server market share is going to suffer too with more energy efficient alternatives available from competitors.

Look at how people interact with technology and you'll see Windows and Intel's pittyful marketshare for what it actually is.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[Billly Gates]

I have seen the rise and fall of [...] smart phones [...] even Linux

Fall of smartphones and Linux, what?

My point is wintel is still here and will stay here for years to come regardless of Android. It is a standard that will never go away as long as someone needs an app or data from an app only on that platform.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[Billly Gates]

Guess what? Every competitor has failed or not taken away the marketshare away from Windows and Intel. x86 is here to stay as long as corporations need their applications.

Do you say that as a joke, or out of ignorance, or are you intentionally abusing statistics? The change in the market over the past 20 years has seen meteoric decline in the use of Wintel (remember that name) for what people consider computing.

Windows / Microsoft has a market share online of less than 35% now with the majority taken up by tablet computers.
Intel stopped being the largest manufacturer of processors this year overtaken by Samsung.

And both of these stats happen while tablet / phone devices are still being considered toys and people still look to PCs for "real" work. Chromebooks are starting to show the world an alternative way of doing "real work", the only thing that is missing there is the software. And you can be damn sure that the makers of major software are taking note starting to add full blown functionality to not only mobile apps, but tablet dedicated apps too.

Side note: Stifel has downgraded Intel from a Buy rating to a Hold rating yesterday due to expectation that not only the PC dominance is over, but their server market share is going to suffer too with more energy efficient alternatives available from competitors.

Look at how people interact with technology and you'll see Windows and Intel's pittyful marketshare for what it actually is.

What decline? Looking around at the office. I see HP desktops as far as the eye can see. I see legacy shitty Oracle products, VB 6 apps for some employees, IE specific sites with activeX, and all sorts of legacy whorts.

Just because teenagers and Moms must have an iphone to message and candy crush with their friends doesn't mean Wintel is going away for people who do real work. You are smoking crack if you think these legacy stuff is going away once something is a dependancy.

Intel's rating is because of Trump being stupid in it's tradewar with China. As one .com gets hit (Amazon) computer programs that trade stocks since people no longer do besides Icahn will downgrade all in a sector based on statistics. Not facts.

WIndows has 95% marketshare as Mom's and little girls tweeting their friends are not in the same market as business customers who buy a PC for the ecosystem.

Re:Intel in Deep Shit

[thegarbz]

What decline? Looking around at the office. I see HP desktops as far as the eye can see.

So let me paraphrase: "In my own personal bubble I see no change and therefore there is no change because the entire world works like my little office space here."

I see legacy shitty Oracle products

Oh yeah I know right! We also have an ancient Oracle back end sitting on some Intel hardware. That doesn't mean we don't have some 90 people out in the field entering that data into that database using phones and tablets. Incidentally when I walk into the technicians workshop I also see HPs everywhere. I mean sure it's like 2, and it used to be 10, but I see a PC so nothing has changed right?

Just because teenagers and Moms

Ahhh so you do realise that half the world has made a change.

Intel's rating is because of Trump

What the fuck are you talking about. The rating that was changed was done so with a clear description of why it was changed and it had zero to do with any government.

WIndows has 95% marketshare as Mom's and little girls tweeting their friends are not in the same market as business customers who buy a PC for the ecosystem.

He lines it up, he shoots... HE SC..... WTF those goalposts ... .they just suddenly moved. Are we playing some magical gaelic football here? You've combined moving goalposts with a "No true Scottish PC user" fallacy?

*Posted from a Galaxy Tab while lying in a hammock.

Clever Marketing

[nateman1352]

These "64 bit apps" are not the same 64 bit apps that CIOs are asking MSFT about. The 64 bit apps that everyone cares about are the AMD64 ones. The fact that you can recompile to ARM64 is nice I guess but it's basically as useful as WinCE was back in the day. You don't get the broad ecosystem of custom made business process automation software that makes Windows legendary.

Re:Clever Marketing

[drinkypoo]

The fact that you can recompile to ARM64 is nice I guess but it's basically as useful as WinCE was back in the day.

No way. WinCE apps aren't even targeted at the same API as Win32. For no discernible reason, Microsoft maintained three distinct yet similar operating systems at once for years, and only two of them shared an API. They kept this going way past the point at which it made sense, even going so far as to port the .NET runtime to all three instead of throwing two of them away. Lots of companies will be happy to recompile for ARM as long as that's all they have to do.

Re:Clever Marketing

[nateman1352]

Yes porting to the new platform is easier than it was back in WinCE days. But it is still a new platform. From firsthand experience I can tell you that the X86 to AMD64 switch on Windows was not zero work. Code had to be modified to work on the new 64 bit Windows, and the transition STILL isn't fully done now over a decade later. For some, it will be a simple recompile, but not everyone. From an IT department standpoint, you have to track it as a separate platform for your vendors to support, basically the same as WinCE, which kills its usefulness.

Re:Clever Marketing

[Bert64]

It was worse than that, the different systems were incompatible yet shared the same branding which implied some level of compatibility. This resulted in disappointed customers who bought something expecting it would be compatible, only to find out that it wasnt./=

Re:Clever Marketing

[drinkypoo]

From firsthand experience I can tell you that the X86 to AMD64 switch on Windows was not zero work. Code had to be modified to work on the new 64 bit Windows, and the transition STILL isn't fully done now over a decade later.

How much of that was not writing portable code, and how much of it was Microsoft screwing it up? Honest question, because I really want to know.

Re:Clever Marketing

[_merlin]

It depends on what your application's doing. One of the pitfalls is that it's LLP64, not LP64 like other platforms, so if you'd assumed sizeof(unsigned long) == sizeof(void*) you ran into problems. If you were using inline assembly with MSVC, you had to change it. If you're doing any kind of PC lifecycle management or application installation/inventory, or system configuration, you need to be aware of filesystem and registry redirection in 32-bit applications. It's not a huge issue for most applications. The enhanced security model for Vista and later required more changes.

Guess itâ(TM)ll be no problem to boot camp on

[fortfive]

After they switch to Arm, after all!

FUD

[Anonymous Coward]

But whether you'll get the higher performance that you'd typically expect out of 64-bit apps...

What?

Here we go again

[Billly Gates]

Intel and Asus were at least smart enough to discontinue the ATOM and Android for x86.

People do not run Windows to run Windows. People do not use Android to use Android. People use Windows/x86 to run their desktop apps. People run Android/ARM to run their Android apps.

The only way I can see a Microsoft OS on ARM is on the server for a low power blade in a cloud somewhere. Maybe an IIS or Domain controller or file share server where I/O and latency are the bottlenecks where no x86 apps are required are the only situation I can see this taking off.

Give up

Re:Here we go again

[UnknownSoldier]

/sarcasm But this time it will be different!

*crickets*

No it won't.

You are spot on that people use x86 / Windows to run existing desktop apps. Unless ALL their software is ported over (unlikely) there is just too much momentum to switch.

Re:Here we go again

[Anonymous Coward]

Much of what people now do is web based, and thus doesn't care what the OS/CPU are.

ARM gets you better battery life, and in the case of the new ARM Windows machines gets you LTE for constant Internet access.

Is it for everyone? No.

But the combination of the web browser and easy recompile of many Windows apps means 80% or more of the market won't care and will instead trade the cheaper price/other advantages for an ARM based machine.

Re:Here we go again

[tepples]

People use Windows/x86 to run their desktop apps. People run Android/ARM to run their Android apps.

The idea is that people would use Windows/ARM on an ARM laptop to run recompiled desktop apps. If the Windows applications you use are free software and not built with MFC, open an issue on the project's bug tracker to make ARM binaries.

Re:Here we go again

[Billly Gates]

Is there an EULA against so called "viral" licences with VS 2017 community edition on Windows Store Apps or a Windows Store EULA? I know MS had one for WindowsCE and Windows Mobile SDK.

Windows Store could be useful and I see VLC is there but with limited functionality. But like Android it has has C++ and or C# hooks compiled for a CPU architecture so the odds of this are really low.

Again a server running Hyper-V or a domain controller is the only thing unless MS ports SQL Server to ARM. But all of this would be useful only on the server and MS abandoned it for desktop ... facepalm.

Re:Here we go again

[Bert64]

Most of the free software with available source code is not windows specific, and most software that runs on linux has already been recompiled for ARM.
The only reasons to run windows are for using proprietary software not available anywhere else, and most of this hasn't been ported to ARM and won't get ported unless there is a significant user base first, but that user base won't emerge unless the software is there - chicken and egg. IA64 and Alpha had exactly the same problem.

Re:Here we go again

[tepples]

Most of the free software with available source code is not windows specific, and most software that runs on linux has already been recompiled for ARM.
The only reasons to run windows are for using proprietary software not available anywhere else

I'm specifically referring to Windows applications such as like ModPlug Tracker, FCEUX debugging version, and FamiTracker, which are free software and work well in Wine on x86-64 machines with i386 libs installed.

Now can they fix Win10, so it will upgrade 1709?

[Anonymous Coward]

4 months now and they still cannot get Win10 to upgrade 1709. Gets 83% way done then blows up. I expect the same from ARM port.

Re:Now can they fix Win10, so it will upgrade 1709

[Anonymous Coward]

Get the 1709 installer, backup your data and do a clean installl.

Re:Now can they fix Win10, so it will upgrade 1709

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw a failed 1709 install causing corruption on system partition once. dism your image, chkdsk your system, let the windows repair itself, purify and reset your Windows Update, and manually update all your applicable drivers from the device manager. Try again. Might work. Hopefully.

Consumer code signing began on 7800

[tepples]

(And yes, Apple/Jobs were pieces of cr@p for pioneering the walled-garden/computer-as-Alcatraz model of computing.)

More pieces of crap than Nintendo and Atari? The pair of synchronized RNG MCUs on the Nintendo Entertainment System and code signing on the Atari 7800 ProSystem were a direct response to a flood of poorly balanced games for the Atari 2600.

Re:Consumer code signing began on 7800

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah because the Atari 2600/7800 were not general purpose computing devices (Atari had its own line of 8/16 bit computers for that without any software lockout, great machines IMO) and neither was the American/European NES (Famicom lacks the lockout chip and you can add Family BASIC).

You should at least get source code

[tepples]

If it's "custom made", then why don't you have the source code? Commissioning bespoke software without source code is like hiring an architect firm to design you a house and not giving you the blueprints.

Re:You should at least get source code

[nateman1352]

It usually not as dry cut as you suggest. Usually this type of software acts as glue bridging two or more 3rd party databases. For example, grabbing data from a SAP database and loading it to Peoplesoft to calculate payroll, maybe with an Excel export thrown in for good measure. Typically this involves invoking 3rd party APIs through COM or something. Unless every single one of those 3rd party components is recompiled you have to run the whole stack on x86 emulation.

Re:You should at least get source code

[tepples]

Wouldn't you just need to recompile the client library that connects over the network to the SAP and PeopleSoft databases? If that's not possible, create a new client library from the DBMS's network protocol specification.

Re: Now can they fix Win10, so it will upgrade 170

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why we'll never see the year of Windows 10 on the desktop, people!

iOS wasn't general purpose for years

[tepples]

the Atari 2600/7800 were not general purpose computing devices

Nor were iOS devices until Apple revised its App Store Review Guidelines specifically to allow Swift Playgrounds. When the iPhone first came out, Apple was rejecting a collection of licensed Commodore 64 games because users could reset the virtual C64 into the ROM BASIC REPL, and Apple wouldn't approve it until the developer removed BASIC.

Windows 10 S to 10 Pro

[Kryptonut]

I would have thought the Windows 10 S to 10 Pro upgrade option would only be for x86, so I'm not sure why it's being mentioned in the summary.

This is likely original ARM surface all over again, just with an x86 shim for un-ported Store Apps at a guess.

Re:Now can they fix Win10, so it will upgrade 1709

[Anonymous Coward]

I did 4hrs wasted and still failed. No log nothing to find and fix it. No way to stop it. Daily installs and fails and roll back. All 64bit code to boot.

Re:Now can they fix Win10, so it will upgrade 1709

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for the guidance,,, Been there and done that, wash and repeat. Backed up and did full fresh install with full wipe of drive. Watched it load the OS and drivers, get the first boot asking for basic system info and key, then reboots and spinning dots... then the spinning stops and sits and sits and sits... waited two hours, then reloaded drive.

Windows ARM seems dead in the water

[rsilvergun]

the first computer based on it is an HP selling for a grand. It's got a 19 hour battery life, but there are droid tablets in the $500 range that push 16 hours. You'd have to really want battery life to pay that kind of premium.

Re:Windows ARM seems dead in the water

[TheRaven64]

You'd have to want battery life and the ability to run Windows apps, though the fact that MS Office runs on Android and iOS makes that a bit more of a stretch.

Re:Windows ARM seems dead in the water

[KiloByte]

You'd have to want battery life and the ability to run Windows apps

But I do have the ability to run Windows programs (not just apps) already, at adequate speed rather than 1/100 (arm is easy to emulate on x86, the other way is really slow)!

It's called VNC. I can ssh home and run a Windows VM this way, on a real x86 processor.

Yes, it does require network, but that's pretty ubiquitous these days. On the other hand, apps make a tiny tiny fraction of the Windows ecosystem -- why would I want to run one when anything of value is a program rather than app? I guess even most of Microsoft's own marketing team doesn't use Windows Store exclusively,

On the other hand, I haven't even booted Windows yet this year.

Microsoft has ported Windows to nearly everything

[pestilence669]

I have to give Microsoft credit. They've ported Windows to lots of hardware. Over the years they've supported x86, x64, Itanium, DEC Alpha, MIPS, PowerPC, ARM, and now ARM64. If you include Windows CE, even devices powered by Hitachi chips like the SH2. Their efforts have never really caught on, but they do keep trying. I'd pay good money for Windows Mobile running on an iPhone, just to piss people off.

Re:Microsoft has ported Windows to nearly everythi

[Anonymous Coward]

But never to any big endian architecture, which shows how deeply unportable and flawed their source code is. No Sparc, even when it was the main choice for high end workstations, nor the alternatives in the mid 90s, which were HPPA and Power (RS/6000, big-endian only, Power started to run reasonably in little-endian only with Power-8).

Re:Microsoft has ported Windows to nearly everythi

[serviscope_minor]

I'd pay good money for Windows Mobile running on an iPhone, just to piss people off.

I don't like either system AND I'm stingy yet I still agree.

It's a new architecture

[rsilvergun]

that means the only Windows apps you're going to get are the web based ones that work everywhere and a few Microsoft apps like Office (If they bother doing a native port that isn't even more cut down than the web based office).

Re:It's a new architecture

[TheRaven64]

In case you missed the last dozen or so stories about Windows on ARM, it includes an x86 emulator (currently 32-bit only) and can run x86 Windows apps.