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'Big Brother' In India Requires Fingerprint Scans For Food, Phones, Finances (nytimes.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the always-connected dept.

The New York Times reports of the Indian government's intent to build an identification system of unprecedented scope. The country is reportedly "scanning the fingerprints, eyes and faces of its 1.3 billion residents (alternative source) and connecting the data to everything from welfare benefits to mobile phones." Here's an excerpt from the report: Civil libertarians are horrified, viewing the program, called Aadhaar, as Orwell's Big Brother brought to life. To the government, it's more like "big brother," a term of endearment used by many Indians to address a stranger when asking for help. For other countries, the technology could provide a model for how to track their residents. And for India's top court, the ID system presents unique legal issues that will define what the constitutional right to privacy means in the digital age. The government has made registration mandatory for hundreds of public services and many private ones, from taking school exams to opening bank accounts.

Technology has given governments around the world new tools to monitor their citizens. In China, the government is rolling out ways to use facial recognition and big data to track people, aiming to inject itself further into everyday life. Many countries, including Britain, deploy closed-circuit cameras to monitor their populations. But India's program is in a league of its own, both in the mass collection of biometric data and in the attempt to link it to everything -- traffic tickets, bank accounts, pensions, even meals for undernourished schoolchildren.

14 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. You probably don't want to think by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    about what India's ruling class does to maintain their status. Or what any country's ruling class does to maintain their status.

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    1. Re:You probably don't want to think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is probably to stop people from abusing the system.

      In the US we have food banks all over the place to help people.

      I know at least 4 different people that try to rope my wife into going into them and saying she has 4 kids. Just to get 'free food' on top of their existing EBT cards. This sort of 'crime' is wildly common unfortunately. One dude I knew had a job and makes payments on 2 cars (he is single and lives by himself). STILL does this.

      The food banks usually quickly go under due to lack of resources. People are abusing these systems that are designed and funded to help people. I will quote what one of them told me when I said "hey that food is for people who need it" "well I need it" "you need enough food for 6 people?" "well I run out" "then stop buying junk food with the thing and let me help you plan better, I have seen your fridge and cupboards" he wanted none of that. He is getting well over 500 bucks a month in just food aid.

      This is unfortunately why things turn into command and control government style systems. There are a bunch of people playing by the rules. Then a group who really do not give a shit just so long as they get theirs.

      These give away systems are ripe for abuse and the people who abuse them are well versed on doing so. It is why communistic systems fail into dictatorships and why capitalist systems fail into feudal systems. With communism/socialism it fails because the very greedy people who make up the system do not suddenly become un-greedy. They find ways to make your rules even more authoritarian to work around these people. In capitalistic systems they fail towards feudalism because of greed of the same nature. Both systems realize you can control other people through the use of capital (political or monetary) to buy rules to lock people into non freedom.

    2. Re:You probably don't want to think by mrclevesque · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "You don't get people off welfare by giving them more welfare. You get people off welfare by assisting them in job placements, financial planning, drug rehabilitation, and educational endeavors."

      How about : You don't get people out of hospitals by giving them more hospital care. You get people out of hospital by assisting them in job placement, drug rehabilitation financial planning, and educational endeavors.

      i.e. financial assistance or hospital care doesn't exclude other forms of assistance, and vice versa.

  2. Just slightly ahead of the curve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We are getting it here in the west too. I live in Sweden and its getting increasingly difficult to communicate with government run services with out a "mobile ID" (which is made by a private firm and requires a newish smartphone BTW) even riding a bus requires a "smartphone" and you have to show a valid ID to ride a train.... Strangely you can still fly in Europe without showing an ID, its easier to get on a plane incognito than a local bus...

    1. Re:Just slightly ahead of the curve. by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Europe has similar levels of free-speech protection as the US. Possibly greater, as you can't be fired at will in many countries if you voice an unpopular opinion. True, in some countries, you can be arrested or fined for Fascist speech, but that stands to reason. Fascism caused a lot of suffering in Europe, and wanting to bring those times back is pretty close to treason.

      Basically, it's a threat -- you're promoting government action to take away people's rights. The US equivalent would probably be something like burning a cross on the street in front of someone's home.

    2. Re:Just slightly ahead of the curve. by Kiuas · · Score: 2

      I live in Sweden and its getting increasingly difficult to communicate with government run services with out a "mobile ID"

      Finn here; we use e-banking credentials (all of which are required by law to use 2-step authentication) lo log in and identify to government services like filing taxes etc. There's a notable difference between requiring a trustworthy method for people to identify themselves in order to access their own personal information stored and handled by the government and requiring fingerprints and facial ID to buy food or taking an exam.

      I quite like the fact that I can handled my taxes (both personal and those of my startup) online using 2-step identification instead of a less secure method.

      Strangely you can still fly in Europe without showing an ID, its easier to get on a plane incognito than a local bus...

      So wait, have they stopped selling single-use tickets at kiosks and stores? Last time I was in Stockholm I happily rode the metro with complete anonymity using these. Again, just because a service is offered (you can buy mass transit tickets with the phone here as well) does not mean said service is mandatory. You're comparing apples to oranges here.

      Secondly: no you can't be on the plane incognito. Even though you won't have to show your ID necessarily, your name is still on the passenger manifest. Obviously you can book a flight under a false name, but this is actually not allowed. That is, if they do decide to check your ID (which they are allowed to do) and find that your ticket is booked under a different/false name you will not get on the flight.

      --
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  3. Modi and corruption by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

    That political windbag Modi claims it will root out corruption. Maybe. Corruption in India is simply a way to work around bad government. It might remove some corruption, but it won't fix the underlying problem of a useless government and corruption at the higher levels.

  4. Most western countries essentially have this by Kjella · · Score: 3, Informative

    All sorts of official activity here in Norway is linked to my "fødselsnummer", essentially my DOB + a 5-digit code to make it unique assigned at birth. Immigrants and others with business in Norway get a D-number which is the same only in a different number series. Can't open a bank account, can't pay taxes, can't own property, can't really do anything official without it. That was all well and good, but then the US started pushing for biometric passports and around here a country is the size of a US state so practically everybody has to have a passport. So since 2010 that all goes into a big database and since you have to renew them every ten years it's now pretty much the entire population. The only thing that prevent them from using it like in India is the law, all the data is already connected and linked.

    --
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  5. Re:Fuck India by Memnos · · Score: 2

    Umm.. you realize that's probably not necessary. They're obviously already doing a lot of fucking just amongst themselves.

    --
    I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
  6. how is it news? by jarkus4 · · Score: 2

    This system has been working for a long while. It had already went through massive data leaks in 2017

  7. Singapore has it, sweden has it... by Daneel+Olivaw+R.+ · · Score: 3, Informative

    In singapore it was called Nric/FIN, linked to tax, bank, mobile, all govt services and then I first came to sweden, I had restricted to my new swedish bank account among other things till I got "swedish id" card. It is used everywhere from new house search, new mobile number, authentication in any swedish service (not just govt services, include insurance/ investment / share market/ etc.) TBH, I find having this convenient so I do not have to register in multiple places. I understand the concern about hacks like equifax one. There is a solution for that Blockchain based stuff like "civic" (yes, you hate blockchain I get it) In india's case, it helps with reducing corruption already (no, you can't have oversight without data and some centralized way to identify what the whole population does), and authorizing myself with fingerprint in a bank is kinda convenient considering the fact the each of my signature is unique despite my best effort to duplicate. My point is, NYT tends to blow things out of proposition and whatever is happening in india has already been done in at least sg and sweden and I have not seen any outraged articles about that. My point is

  8. Re: One step away by Bruha · · Score: 2

    Itâ(TM)s not the mark of the beast. Unless you consider our fingerprints and DNA the mark already.

  9. Re:That's great by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 3, Insightful

    India still has a caste system going nice and strong--several of the things that 'Big Brother' here is intended to do would work very, very well for ensuring people will have a very difficult time attempting to escape their preordained proper place (such as daring to want to have a job that wasn't dirty, dangerous and demeaning), punish those who try anyway, and probably also cull the population.

    Oh, and they've got problems like people being legally dead when they're not being deceased. Admittedly, this system will ensure that such errors are quickly fixed...by blocking the legally dead person from access to the basic necessities of life.

    Any system which makes it so the state can (intentionally or by accident) prevent you from being able to obtain basic necessities for yourself is not a good one, especially if it'd be possible to pretend your genocide is just a massive clerical error that merely happened to take you years to correct.

    RTFAing says that one of the benefits they're claiming is that this will fix India's endemic government corruption. The only way to get rid of corruption in the state is to ensure that corrupt officials are likely to be caught, that the penalty is significant, and that there is as little benefit to being corrupt as possible. (The more power they have, the better the odds need to be of a corrupt official being the guest of honor at a surprise necktie party.)

  10. The weird priorities of Indian governments by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Each new Indian government seems to obsessed with showing the rest of the world that India is an advanced, leading-edge country. And every new Indian government neglects doing anything much about the conditions of more than 600 million (and growing) Indian citizens who lack access to such basic services as running water, electricity and sanitation. Really strange, and unfair to those unfortunate Indians.