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Is Microsoft Trying To Make Windows 10 Mail Worse? (venturebeat.com)
Emil Protalinski via VentureBeat argues that "Windows Mail is unusable, and instead of improving it, Microsoft is looking to drive users away": Microsoft started forcing Mail to use Edge for email links in Windows 10 build 17623 last month. This week, the company started including Office 365 ads right at the bottom of the app. But even these poor decisions are just extra nails in the coffin. Windows Mail has difficulty sending and receiving email. No, I'm not exaggerating for effect. If you have an email open and Windows Mail detects that a new email has hit your inbox, you'll get a notification. Standard stuff. If, however, you then click on said notification, Windows Mail will take you to the open email message, rather than the one that you just clicked on. That's half of the time. The other half of the time this happens, Windows Mail will crash altogether. Apparently having one email open and trying to open another one that just came in is overwhelming for Windows Mail. But that's not the end of it.
Windows Mail is also notorious for not sending emails. Multiple times a week, I open an email, hit reply, type out a quick message, hit send, and alt-tab back to Chrome or Word. Any normal email client will send the message despite the app not being the active window. With Windows Mail, countless times I have wondered why I never got heard back to a specific reply, only to discover hours later, and completely by accident, that the message is still a draft. It's not even sitting in my outbox -- it's just a fucking draft. I end up debating whether to send the email hours late, or if it doesn't make sense to send it anymore. That's not a decision I should have to make. There are of course small features I would like to see added to Windows Mail, like being able to set formatted signatures (as opposed to just plain text), but that's hardly a priority. Windows Mail is unusable, which means Windows 10 doesn't come with an email client. That's incredibly sad.
Windows Mail is also notorious for not sending emails. Multiple times a week, I open an email, hit reply, type out a quick message, hit send, and alt-tab back to Chrome or Word. Any normal email client will send the message despite the app not being the active window. With Windows Mail, countless times I have wondered why I never got heard back to a specific reply, only to discover hours later, and completely by accident, that the message is still a draft. It's not even sitting in my outbox -- it's just a fucking draft. I end up debating whether to send the email hours late, or if it doesn't make sense to send it anymore. That's not a decision I should have to make. There are of course small features I would like to see added to Windows Mail, like being able to set formatted signatures (as opposed to just plain text), but that's hardly a priority. Windows Mail is unusable, which means Windows 10 doesn't come with an email client. That's incredibly sad.
"Windows Mail is also notorious for not sending emails."
I kinda like that. Maybe I will get my coworkers to move off Exchange.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Why don't you use another client, such as ThunderBird?
Their UWP platform is FAIL all round, its just HTA/ActiveX just in a different wrapper, there are zero UWP apps that are a "must have" and developers know this, no users, developers or managers want or asked for a "store" (and associated antitrust privacy/SPOF Windows Live account) in Windows and now WinPhone is dead it doesnt make sense, junk the whole thing, fix the bugs and leave the fucking thing alone.
For me I'm using Thunderbird. It's good enough. And it's not like mail is going to change radically as it is now.
You may think that Thunderbird is a bit old, but it's working pretty well and don't cause any trouble.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Email is de-centralized, it's an open standard and with some effort you can use it for basically everything. So they hate it. They all want you to use centralized, closed platforms with every bit of data going through their servers. They = MS, Google, FaceBook, all of them.
The fact that you need to jump through hoops meanwhile to get a sane email environment isn't at all an accident. They don't want you to use email. So fucking use it.
...I've been happily using 'mutt' for the past two decades without any of the problems you described.
I never ran into the artificial 2 GB PST crash/eat-all-your-email limits. There are no limits in maildir.
I didn't have to wait for days while incompetent Exchange admins ran eseutil in a futile attempt to recover a massive binary blob mailstore. ZFS ensures data integrity, provides online backups, and the ability to roll back to snapshots instantly.
I never ran into a company-wide multi-day email outage because of "Me too!" replies (https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/exchange/2004/04/08/me-too/). Most open source mail servers are pretty damn robust and don't charge $2,000+ per server you spin up.
I never had to wait for my IT team to buy licenses to allow me to connect to my mail server. Only in Microsoft-land do they charge you to buy a mail server (Exchange), while also charging you to buy the client (Outlook) that was specifically designed to talk to that mail server....and then they have the balls to say you need special permission to 'allow' them to talk (CALs).
I get better compression on my mail when ZFS uses lz4 as opposed to whatever the hell Exchange uses in its binary blob.
Tracking down messages is ridiculously easy--no multi-step wizard with outputs that are difficult to parse. Just the same old commands every admin should be familiar with: find, awk, sed, grep, and maybe cut.
I remember one client that would call me almost weekly with an "OMG WE WERE DISCUSSING FIRING A USER AND WE ACCIDENTALLY FUCKING SENT A COPY OF THE EMAIL TO THE ALL-USERS MAILING LIST". We would literally have to immediately shutdown Exchange, then take the server off the network, then attach it to a test network, then bring up a test workstation with a copy of Outlook and convince Exchange we had permission to the sender's email box (even though it's off the domain), then find the offending message and Message ID, then go through 150 boxes by hand to find and remove the message and remember to purge it out of the Deleted Items box...then bring everything back online. It took *hours*.
But in Linux-land we were able to stop the mail services, cd into the 'sent items' box, find the message ID and run something simple like: grep -l 'message-id' | xargs rm
We'd run through about 800 linux mailboxes (~1.3 TB) in about 8 minutes and then be back online.
Fuck Exchange.
If your company picked Exchange, chances are they've made a *lot* of wrong decisions. Especially like hiring an incompetent IT staff.
I'm sure they're all on a server in HRC's basement.
What's the business case for making Windows Mail better? It's not going to sell Windows 10. It doesn't make any money on its own. It's the email analogy to Solitaire and MS Paint. It's probably just there to make sure it doesn't become an anti-trust issue if they integrate it, like Windows has always come with a (crappy useless) email client. And as such they've probably outsourced it to some shit tier support and what you're seeing is code monkeys creating a train wreck. But they don't care because everyone (except you, apparently) will either go webmail, Office 365 or use a third party client.
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>Microsoft is looking to drive users away
So they have basically become Apple.
I have never seen so companies who do exactly the opposite of what their users ask for and want from them than Apple and Microsoft....oh wait, um HP, Oracle, and IBM probably fit in there too..
Hm is it just me or do all big tech companies suck
-- Given enough time and money, Microsoft will eventualy invent UNIX.
The Windows of Mail applications - I get it now.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Thunderbird is being updated again. There has already been a new release. Even without that, it is light years ahead of Windows Mail.
*** On the Internet, no one knows you're using a VIC-20
Where's the difference if the effect is the same? OK, change "hate" for "they don't care for you being able to use whatever server(s) you may like for your email".
Thunderbird is what I've been predominantly using over the last few years, whether on Windows or Linux, but it isn't without severe flaws, either. The probably most annoying: As soon as an account surpasses a critical number of messages and/or folders, notification of new messages does not work reliably anymore and I have to actively click on the bloody folders to see if there's something new even if I've configured them to be updated whenever the account is being checked for new mail...
For those times that I want or need to use Microsoft mail services, I prefer to use Tor Browser to connect to http://outlook.com/ Be aware that Microsoft will prompt for extra security info when they detect your session originates at a Tor exit node. I wish they would refrain.
The problems are not specific to the mail app but mostly showcase the limitations of the "sand-boxed application" model. The whole idea of "one OS to rule them all" was idiotic from the start. Phones and pc's have very different usage scenarios, what works on one doesn't work very well on the other
Have you tried Opera Mail?
From the Opera Mail download page: "Opera Mail is at the end-of-life stage of its product life cycle. This means neither technical support nor product and security updates will be provided. The product is still available to download, but you will use it at your own risk."
"A Bird In The Hand Will Poop On Your Wrist"-Benny Hill,1982
If you've ever worked with real users, you'd know that isn't the case. We had Microsoft-boffins thinking the same exact thing about our "corporate e-mail" with ~15,000 users - nobody uses POP3/IMAP and it's a huge headache for Exchange to badly implement it, let's turn it off. We had a small riot on our hand from hundreds of users and even a number of Exchange-to-IMAP instances popping up.
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Windows ME, Vista, Version 8 - Microsoft has been having problems here and there with Windows for some time. In 2015, Nadella combined their hardware efforts with the Windows Universal Platform, allowing for cross platform applications [1]. Things didn't go as hoped. While Windows 10 is popular, overtaking Win 7 by February 2018, overall PC sales has been declining. In fact, they have been losing ground for the last 6 years, with a 2.8% drop in 2017 [2].
Consumer Reports stopped recommending the entire line of Surface PCs in 2017 due to hardware concerns. These days CR rates the Surface Pro 4 positively, but they still claim Microsoft is less reliable than most brands, and Apple is the most reliable laptop brand [3]. BTW, if you're interested, Windows can be installed on a Mac with OS X's dual booting Boot Camp. Best of both worlds.
Now, Terry Myerson, the leader of the Windows and Devices Group, is leaving Microsoft. With his departure, Microsoft is creating 2 new teams that will prioritize Microsoft's cloud and artificial intelligence products. Perhaps this is an effort to appease investors [4]. With Myerson's departure and this re-prioritization, it's no surprise Windows applications like Mail are having problems. I expect more trouble across the Windows spectrum. Microsoft's head is in the clouds, and their application platform is in the sunset, rear window.
[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-182823659.html
[2] https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-vs-windows-7-has-microsofts-newest-os-just-reached-a-turning-point/
https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/632157/2017-saw-pc-shipments-decline-six-years-straight/
[3] {May be Paywalled} https://www.consumerreports.org/products/laptop/microsoft-surface-pro-4-384902/overview/
[4] http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/29/news/companies/microsoft-restructuring-windows/index.html
For me I'm using Thunderbird. It's good enough. And it's not like mail is going to change radically as it is now.
You may think that Thunderbird is a bit old, but it's working pretty well and don't cause any trouble.
I was using Eudora 5 until the SSL certs being used had too large of a signing key for it to handle. I'm a bit sad, to be honest.
You may think that Thunderbird is a bit old, but it's working pretty well and don't cause any trouble.
It's not "a bit old", it's "good enough and does what you want". It has the added benefit that Mozilla have decided to leave it alone, unlike Firefox which they're determined to keep fucking up more and more until their last users decide that since it's just a crappy copy of Chrome anyway they may as well use the real thing.
It's not "a bit old", it's "good enough and does what you want". It has the added benefit that Mozilla have decided to leave it alone, unlike Firefox which they're determined to keep fucking up more and more until their last users decide that since it's just a crappy copy of Chrome anyway they may as well use the real thing.
Leaving older software alone seems to be the best way to have software that works. I've been keeping a Windows 7 computer and an old Core 2 duo imac around because newer systems purposely break software, or in this case, are just Microsoft being Microsoft and screwing up.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claws_Mail
Multiplatform, runs circles around Thunderbird speed wise and is extensible through plugins. Doesn't allow sending HTML mail (though it can receive it) and is extremely fast in navigating mail folders or finding messages. I keep all my mail inline converted from other older clients, that is about 20 years and tens thousands mails, and it still starts in less than half a second.
what organisation on the planet with a locked down corporate image uses windows Mail???? Lots use outlook or other mail clients, in all my years I have never seen a single one that uses windows mail.
I quite like Thunderbird, but my big issue with it is that it renders HTML email using the Gecko engine in the same process that contains all of my mail server login credentials and full access to my email history. I don't know if Windows Mail does this, but Apple Mail uses the same sandboxing as Safari, so if there's a WebKit bug it will crash the renderer process but without a separate privilege escalation vulnerability it can't compromise my mail client. Handling untrusted data using a massively complex renderer in process just seems like a recipe for disaster.
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