Some Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Asking To Switch Departments Over Ethical Concerns (businessinsider.com)

Some dissatisfied Facebook engineers are reportedly attempting to switch divisions to work on Instagram or WhatsApp, rather than continue work on the platform responsible for the Cambridge Analytica scandal, according to a recent report from the New York Times. An anonymous reader writes: Many believe Facebook should have done more to handle the data responsibly, and the events that followed increased scrutiny against Facebook, reportedly taking a toll on employees working on the platform. Since the news came out, CEO Mark Zuckerberg and COO Sheryl Sandberg have spoken to the media on a few occasions, but it was days before the company commented on the scandal, which it now estimates around 87 million total users affected. Then, a leaked memo from Facebook executive Andrew Bosworth written in 2016 revealed a "growth at all costs" mentality that put Facebook in a position to be held responsible for the situation it's found itself in. As it became evident that Facebook's core product might be to blame, engineers working on it reportedly found it increasingly difficult to stand by what it built.

Comments

Is it really ethical or CYA

[sqorbit]

Is this really a move because of ethical reasons. I can't imagine that anyone working at Facebook is surprised by this. I'd tend to believe the a over is more to cover your own ass. At best employees had a clue that something like this was possible, at worst they had direct knowledge of it. I don't think anyone working at Facebook suddenly had a moral epiphany.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

They're catching shit from their SJW 'friends'.

I'm sure there are many thoughtless morons working for Facebook that _were_ surprised by this. They shouldn't have been, but what can you say, morons.

They still don't get it, they think: It's not that what they were doing was bad, it's that the evil 'Drumpf' people came in and 'used them' and their data for bad things.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

No - I think it's ethical/moral reasons. They now feel like they got Trump elected and feel terrible about it. Of course they had no problem with this when their work got their political idols elected that was all fun and games and heroic.
It's infantile.
They had NO problem with this data collection and probably bought Zuckerberg's kool-aid ideology hook, line and sinker that they were making the world a better place with proper data analysis. Now they feel that this has become a weaponized technology and they want no part of it. If they REALLY cared about the abuses of data collection and misuse - they would be the ones to most know how to PREVENT and STOP it. They're leaving instead because they're disgusted with what they created.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sinij]

In Silicon Valley, being the most SJW-infested place on Eath, anything that touches Trump is toxic. When FB is now seen as being directly responsible for the election of Trump, these people found themselves in danger of "never work in this town" by association. They are probably better off putting prison time on their resume that admitting they worked on FB.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason anyone cares about this is now because the data helped Trump. It's laughable when you think about it.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[AmiMoJo]

Even if they don't personally feel bad about it, being involved in this scandal will look bad on their CVs. If they move to another department they can at least claim (through a lie of omission) to be involved when looking for a new job.

Thinking about it, those departments are probably about to lose some staff anyway, given their new-found devotion to less profitable but ethical behaviour.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this really a move because of ethical reasons. I can't imagine that anyone working at Facebook is surprised by this.

And they were cool with it when it was the Obama campaign scraping the data.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook needs an I.T. closet cleaner overlord to turn things around.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly - how do they look bad except to another SJW HR person? They didn't know nor control how the data they collected and analyzed was used - only that it was turned into a product. Recall that Cambridge Analytics supposedly collected the data in violation of their licensed terms. Right?
That their data collection and analysis technologies helped several presidential elections should be a crown in anybody's CV

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

And it didn't even help Trump. It wasn't even used by the campaign.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

They're catching shit from their SJW 'friends'.

Seems like Facebook staff ought to be able to dig up lots of dirt to hold over their "friends" heads and put a stop to any whining pretty quick.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sinij]

You have to remember where most of these engineers are located. This isn't some fly-over state in the middle of Trump country. This is right in the middle of Silicon Valley. It is very likely that every HR person there is on the SJW spectrum and politically well left of Che.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[CaptainDork]

Both of you miss the point:

These employees are mid-career and they know full well that lifetime employment is not a thing.

As they grow their vocation, they may have opportunities to move into security or finance or places that just like to have ethical ranks.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all employees pay attention to what their employer does, they just do their work and don't look around, or at the big picture.

As an employee of a Too Big To Fail bank, I can say that some of my peers are not aware of the banks legal issues and moral failings.

I am leaving this year, I can't work for what has become the poster child for "big evil bank", but it's not an easy decision.

I work with good people and like my job, the pay is very good, but my conscience can't take it anymore.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

  the evil 'Drumpf' people came in and 'used them' and their data for bad things.

This was my exact take on it too. Nobody gave a shit about the massive amount of data being collected on them for years, but as soon as the 'wrong' people got their hands on it, it's the end of the world and Facebook is suddenly evil.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Riceballsan]

I doubt it's so much friends, as fear of job security. Facebook just took a huge off the charts hit to trust. Some big names are making pretty bold actions of saying they are abandoning the platform. Honestly all it really would take is a few big names to endorse or back another service, and facebook could more or less lose 75%+ of it's audience, which would result in huge downsizing. At that point, moral concerns are not... you don't want a sinking ship to be your most recent job experience, jump ship now where you can claim you had fought against the problem.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing the HornyWuss won't exonerate Trump from and blame on SJW's, is there? If he manages to get Russia off the hook for collusion he gets extra Rubles, yes?

Lock him up between Trump Jr. and Zuckerberg.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[jellomizer]

If it were ethical, I would expect to have seen there resumes on the desk months ago. Right now these people are jumping ship.
That being said. For a lot of employees, it is actually difficult to know when you have crossed the line. Because as employees we get closer to that line slowly, and are rewarded for each we take to waking towards that line. If you are put push back a little bit the Boss normally has a reasonable explanation. Here is a golden age Simpons quote...

Bart: Uh, say, are you guys crooks?
Fat Tony: Bart, um, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?
Bart: No.
Fat Tony: Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them?
Bart: Uh uh.
Fat Tony: And, what if your family don't like bread? They like...cigarettes?
Bart: I guess that's okay.
Fat Tony: Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime, Bart?
Bart: Hell, no!
Fat Tony: Enjoy your gift.

However they had crossed the line, and they didn't realize it until it is too late. So the best they can do is switch departments and get some credibility so they can swap jobs in a few years, where this problem isn't as clear as April of 2018 but Early to Mid 2018 or further out to sometimes in 2018 or even at the end of the 20teens.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[adosch]

ABSOLUTELY correct. Some things look really 'good' on resumes for an amount of time, and some things are going to appear sour. How do you think some employees during the 90's Enron felt? "Oh, you worked... there? Um, we'll call you in a few weeks!" even if they worked in the damn mail room. I know I'd be doing the same exact move if I was in that situation, especially when there's going to be a stigma attached. This isn't the era your Grandpa or Dad worked in; there is no work and employment loyalty. People do not have 40-year employment stints anymore, except in state/federal government or small, cushy companies. And anyone who does software engineering or development, sys-admin, DBA, network engineer role on a serious and professional level knows that all your experience works against you --- and you get too expensive and at the end of the day, most places just won't pay that and take the 2nd or 3rd level person unless you have someone really gunning for your talent.

How is this any different than leaving your job on par-for-the-course reasons and taking a new job? Everyone leaves for a reason. Maybe you were tired of the grind, the work culture, the work itself, who the fuck knows. You never tell them (your employer that) because there are bridges to be preserved (if you're smart) but we all have our reasons, and all have an employment livelihood and that nice-to-us paycheck and living to preserve too.

No one is naive in all of this; people are going to say what they need to say to detatch themselves from this to get a new job or appear to be the stifled do-gooder who was opposed to it but had food to put on the table and squatter box rent to pay for in Silicon Valley. Anyone working at Facebook knows very well what the business model was/is and will be, even in light of all this fake congress BS with Zuckerberg: you

.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

When are you going to accept that YOU and YOUR toxic politics are responsible for Trump being elected? We weren't voting for Trump, we were voting to reject YOU.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

First, "SJW" could just as easily mean people on the more conservative side of things who call people "snowflakes" or are pushing for tougher immigration enforcement.

Second, you apparently do not live in the valley, or you'd know what you're saying isn't even remotely the truth. Yes Berkeley and San Francisco can do things that sound crazy when summed up in a headline, but when you start digging into some of the details, you see it is not some knee-jerk response, but they are actually considered decisions made by city leaders. Like banning/taxing of sugary drinks. Sugar is added to all kinds of things where it really has no business being. Hot dogs, for example, have sugar in them. The sugar is put there because food companies know it is a highly addictive substance that is very difficult to kick. This in turn creates a bunch of fat people who have expensive chronic health problems like heart disease. More people with expensive chronic conditions means all of us end up paying more in insurance premiums, because the current insurance system in the US is just a giant pyramid scheme, based on the assumption you'll have more people paying in than you're paying out.

Not to get all tinfoil hat, but food companies put sugar into almost everything because it is a highly addictive substance that is perfectly legal. They do this in order to sell more of their products, not to increase the nutritional value or anything like that.

Aside from that, the valley is one of the most prolific places for new business creation in the country, if not the world. For all some people love to harp about how over regulated California is, the facts show it is one of the most business friendly locations there is. For every company that leaves California, usually having nothing to do with taxes or regulation, there are probably a dozen new startups being created. Sure, most of them will fail, but there will be a dozen more to take their place, and one or two will likely succeed to some degree.

Another thing, is what exactly is wrong with a company deciding that in addition to making a profit, it also wants to contribute something back to society? This was actually a pretty common practice up until maybe the 80s give or take. There used to be "company towns" and taxes paid by companies went to support the local infrastructure in a symbiotic relationship. If a company wants to ship goods, it helps to have roads that are in good repair, and manufacturing goods is generally a lot easier with the help of an electrical grid and sewage system. It's also good to have an educated workforce to replace workers who retire, so supporting schools was important. Then, somewhere along the line, investors started getting greedy and created the myth that companies must do everything they possibly can to maximize the value for shareholders. Now our infrastructure is falling apart and our schools are chronically underfunded. So, I again ask you, what is wrong with a company deciding that they want to emphasize doing some good for the community?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

The words you are looking for are: 'Resume stain'

But I don't think most of these clowns are aware enough to realize it yet. They are just virtue signalling.

_I've_ worked in mortgage banking, not for a broker, a bank...they aren't that picky...Trust me, they did, more than they knew.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[bobbied]

They still don't get it, they think: It's not that what they were doing was bad, it's that the evil 'Drumpf' people came in and 'used them' and their data for bad things.

Obama's campaign did this, with FB's blessing in 2012. https://www.nationalreview.com...

Who of these cared then? (Can we say nobody?)

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[bobbied]

Yep, they celebrated this in 2012: https://www.nationalreview.com...

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. They didn't care what they where doing. They cared because they got caught.

Everyone, and I mean everyone knows that this is facebrick's core business model. Its just that everyone who dared bring it upw as accused of being "anti-social" for doing so.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

Not a damned one of them.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Blah blah blah...

Ya they do actually kneejerk reactions all the time. Obama was heralded for using "data from social networks". The Democrats continue to use such data. Suddenly... Now that Trump is elected, it's a BAAAAAAAD thing.

You think they'd be anywhere near as hyper about this if Hillary won and part of the reason was this data? Oh fuck no. Stop lying. There might be some blowback, but no where near the level of what we're seeing.

People in California will literally have a hissy fit if you donate so much as a dollar to a conservative campaign, no matter your reasons for doing so, no matter your allegiances, no matter anything.

And no, I didn't vote for Trump. I've just read numerous stories and have witnessed the hysteria on multiple occasions.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[JackieBrown]

Users will not be leaving facebook at any notable impact. You overestimate how much the average user cares about this stuff or even knows about it

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

Sugar is added to all kinds of things where it really has no business being.

LOL!

You had a tenuous argument going, but I stayed with it.

Then you threw this out and it all collapsed into a pile of SJW Bullshit.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

When are you going to accept that YOU and YOUR toxic politics are responsible for Trump being elected? We weren't voting for Trump, we were voting to reject YOU.

Great. You elected a toxic 'tard that's doing irreparable harm to our nation to counter the vast, VAST minority of liberals that fall into the SJW category? You sir have been fooled by something that's well known to most people. It's called a vocal minority.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

In the times where shorting a stock before making announcements like security violations or other bad news is A-OK, the talk about "ethics" is laughable. In the business world, as I was told by a C-level a few months ago, "you can't eat ethics, nor can you pay your rent with ethics."

It is an ugly fact, but it is life.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you going to give up the money you have and what you bought with it as well? Or does your conscience not matter that much?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

In Silicon Valley, being the most SJW-infested place on Eath, anything that touches Trump is toxic. When FB is now seen as being directly responsible for the election of Trump, these people found themselves in danger of "never work in this town" by association. They are probably better off putting prison time on their resume that admitting they worked on FB.

False. Money drives SV. If you can code (or whatever), no one gives a crap you are hired. Nobody cares about your politics.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

The only reason anyone cares about this is now because the data helped Trump. It's laughable when you think about it.

You're right, people hate Trump and the thought of helping him turns their stomachs.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

What "irreparable harm" is he doing, exactly?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

And it didn't even help Trump. It wasn't even used by the campaign.

Sad! #NoCollusion #LockHerUp

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

And they were cool with it when it was the Obama campaign scraping the data.

Hi Troll. I see you've reached line item #347 on your list of "Liberal Triggers". This one is pretty weak though. I'd suggest you follow up with #544, which is "Hilary responsible for Benghazi". Good luck!

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Bodhammer]

Maybe they could add a new status called "Virtue Signalling"?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

Tell that to James Damore.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[mark-t]

What service are they going to endorse? That's the open question....

The next most popular social media platform is twitter and that's not really a plug-in replacement. Google+ could have been a suitable plug-in replacement, except, you know.... it's google, and there's about a next to no chance that they would do anything any differently than facebook did.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[the_B0fh]

You obviously haven't been following nutrition science then. Even the new FDA "food pyramid" now replaces fat with sugar as the bad actor contributing to heart disease and obesity.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[gnunick]

Yeah it's pretty disingenuous to suddenly pretend you have moral or ethical qualms. It has to have been clear to _anyone_ in the industry for years how fucked up Facebook is, and how amoral their behavior is. The only difference is now that the general public is getting concerned.

I've been rebuffing recruiters from Facebook (among other corporate assholes) for years. Acting ethically (and insisting on working only for companies which don't offend my moral sensibilities), isn't a new concept to me. It does greatly limit one's employment prospects, but on the other hand I've never had trouble finding a job.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look. Conservative slashdot reader suggests that huge organization of human being whom he has never met are "morons", and then attributes to them the most shallow of motivations and paints their character with a broad brush that suggests he might now have ever had any meaningful social interaction ever in his life.

:Yawn: Film at 11.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

You're right. None of what he's done is probably irreparable.

But anyway, back to your plan. So you'd elect Trump so he'd do things like fail to denounce Nazis, which would really trigger those SJWs, haha?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

Idiot AC fails at reading comprehension, again.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't work at Facebook, but I quit from a different big tech company about a year ago over ethical concerns after they were reported about in the news. Many people at these companies just don't think about the ethical concerns because they are head down working on solving fun problems, and those that do think about the ethical issues realize it's a very grey line. It's totally possible for a news article to make engineers think about ethical issues or think about them again. Anyone who thinks it's an easy decision to leave a fun and profitably job over these issues probably hasn't done so.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[fluffernutter]

You're talking about it like it is a service that is necessary to have for life. Believe it or not, people CAN choose to endorse NO social network if they want to and they'll be just fine.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

Failed to denounce Nazis? Are you insane? Sorta like "When did you stop beating your wife farble?"

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

Non sequitur.

What you eat isn't due to some shadowy cabal of industrialists.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

Except for the 63 million who voted for him apparently. Their deplorables though so must not register in your worldview.

P.S. this is how you got Trump.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[kalieaire]

I don't know.  Can't really say whether a person should or should not have been aware.  Some people are just really book smart but not very street smart.  There're all kinds of people out there.  If anything, their SJW friends should have told them and been more convincing prior to Cambridge Analytica ever being mentioned.

I can see how critics will claim that people do things fully knowing their implications.  But in terms of intellectual honesty, nobody knows every little intricacy of every system, that's usually the job of the Chief Architect or Chief Technology Officer.  CEO provides a broad vision, then the CTO provides the technical vision.  I mean, look at Apple for example, not everyone knows exactly what they're working on since product development is so secret.  Apple employees are given a specific task and expected to complete it.

At Facebook however, they're more of an identity provider, similar to Active Directory for SSO implementations, except they have capture a more holistic view of the user than other providers.  So when the development teams are working on their API or adding features to Facebook to provide a more efficient way of connecting with external applications and providing features for their users and advertisers, they end up give away a lot of information that may not necessarily be in the best interests of the user when there are bad actors in play like Cambridge Analytica and Aleksandr Kogan who, despite the word of the policy, intentionally use the platform in an unintended way and against their Acceptable User Policy.

Many countries and local governments around the world implement speed limit policies, but people don't always follow them, and many people get away with it without incurring any negative impacts.  I think what needs to happen is that there needs to be appropriate independent watchdogs and independent auditing implemented to safeguard the people that use it.  This responsibility would land squarely on the shoulders of the FTC for Consumer protection.

The European Union, for example, has made a step in the right direction with GDPR, and similar legislation in the USA would help as well.

While we can *expect* Facebook to be good, in reality, we ourselves need to be cognizant of the data we put out there as well.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Two things. One, the Obama scraping was done with the full consent of the person who d/led the app with the full knowledge that who is was going to and why. Two, it's entirely entirely unclear what "scrape friends' data" entails. Was it scraping everything that said friend had access to of other friends? Or was it merely scraping public information and the information that said people were friends? If we presume (one) was accurate, then the only way that all their friends semi-private data was scraped is if their friend allowed it. That's really said friends fault.

As in most things, informed consent is key to whether something is ethical or legal.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[apoc.famine]

There's a very difference between having a personal political viewpoint and making your company look bad. You generally only get fired for the latter.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't Silicon Valley more libertarian infested then SJW?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

People in California you say? Does that include Orange County which split the vote 49% to 44%?

All the hyperbole in the world isn't going to make your hysteria true. So settle down, do some research, and stop lying about things that are easy to verify.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[bobbied]

It was scraping your contacts' public information and keeping it, without your contact's consent and that data was used for more than just allowing the Application's users to target their friends. Facebook helped the Obama campaign in doing this though the Facebook API. The keeping of this data violated Facebook's policy but nobody cared.

The Cambridge Analytica application was a bit more opaque about this, collecting your contacts w/o your direct consent, but to your friends the net effect is the same is it not? Facebook didn't assist CA with their application, but provided the common API that allowed it. Both the collection and keeping of this data violated Facebook's policy, but the API allowed it.

So, yea this was a bit different... But not enough to matter all that much.

Actually, the Facebook assistance to the Obama Campaign with their app might be construed as a violation of campaign finance laws as it was undeclared and not paid services that Facebook usually charged for. I'm not saying it necessarily was an FEC violation, but I would urge caution about pushing this narrative too far by those with political motives. It could easily back fire on you...

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

What the country collectively eats is

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Pfhorrest]

Nobody (in management) cared about Damore's politics, they cared that a big ugly work-disrupting (i.e. money-costing) stink happened centered around him (that he didn't cause, those who distributed his memo outside its intended audience did), and fired him to try to make that stop (not that that worked).

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

They're catching shit from their SJW 'friends'

You appear to be using "SJW 'friends'" as an epithet — as if it were a bad thing.

I have a sneaking suspicion that, when asked, you claim to be a Christian. Are you a Christian every day, or just in church on Sunday?

There's nothing wrong with standing up for What's Right the other six days of the week. You don't even need to be Christian to do that; you just have to have morals.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[DarkOx]

Right.. A lot of talented people don't want be in an organization that is going thru upheaval either. talented people want to work with a team that is performing, not storming.

I have lived thru corporate re-orgs before and even knowing my job was fairly secure the entire time its not a fun place to be.

1) You have coworkers that are not secure in their jobs; they are stressed and usually volatile and temperamental as a result. They will be quick to try and blame other possibly you for anything that might even be seen as negative.

2) Usually policy and procedure is in flux, the rules are constantly changing so you spend half your day trying to find who can even tell you how something is supposed to get done today, because its probably different than yesterday and its probably not because its better but because some middle manager feels he needs to be seen as doing something. You will have to find him specifically too, because non of your coworkers can tell you what the right way is as they do not themselves know.

3) You won't be getting anything you ask for no matter how useful it would be in your job. Want a $20 license for some software and permission from IT to install it - aint going to happen until the dust settles

4) Nobody will listen to you, you are part of that department which is in flux, even though you know you are not going anyone nobody else does. They won't "waste" their time on you in the mean time.

5) Much of your effort will go into the waste basket when the projects its supporting get abandon, radically rearchitected etc. So you can't take pride in any work you are doing.

Nope good people that have options would rather take an entirely new (to them) job in a place that is stable even if they are not at risk themselves. Living thru reorgs sucks.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[backwardsposter]

Interesting

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

People can go without Internet, power, or running water. Will they? Nope. Facebook is here to stay..

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

Failed to denounce Nazis? Are you insane?

Not insane, just not in a coma like you must have been.
https://www.theguardian.com/us...

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

Their deplorables though so must not register in your worldview.

And people change their minds, and they have.

PS, "their" != "they are". Who am I to judge though? I'm sure your English is much better than my Russian.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, you believe National Review? What a sap.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sabri]

Facebook is here to stay..

- Myspace
- Yahoo
- Kodak
- Blockbuster
- Radioshack
- Weirdstuff Warehouse *snif*

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't Silicon Valley more libertarian infested then SJW?

The dirty secret of the 2016 election is that it was the left who voted for Trump, because they were afraid of Clinton's relative conservativism. (And Gary Johnson was even "worse" from the left's point of view.) Libertarians are Trump supporters' diametric opposite. We're the ones who demand small government, and Trump's EXPANSION is the reaction to that.

Hell yes, they were pissed at Silicon Valley types. It's just all been concealed because the whole conservative/liberal terms have been redefined so that people can pretend that the candidate nominated by the Republicans, was a "conservative."

One of the big problems facing Republicans now, is that they're not allowed to use the words "deficit" and "debt" until at least 2021. And since there are still a few conservatives left in the Republican party (why, I don't know, but they exist), that's going to sincerely hurt and they are going to burn with resentment. the left will delight in watching them squirm, not-allowed to speak. But among libertarians (big-L and little-L) you're going to hear those words aplenty, as well and other complaints about the federal government's shenanigans.

When people say they voted for Trump because of the oppositions' toxic policies, they're saying they were voting against free markets and freedom. So they went with the populist FDR-type. Not that Clinton would have particularly good for the right (as a Gary Johnson voter, I think Clinton would have been absolutely horrible) but she would have been much more acceptable to the right and libertarians, than Comrade Trump has turned out to be.

To the left, Democrats have been drifting rightward for too long, to such an extent that Obama was virtually indistinguishable from, say, a 1990s Republican. (Look at his policies (even Obamacare) and you'll see it's true. Obama is basically what Republicans used to be, before they went full-retard with GWB.) The left hated that, so they campaigned for Bernie Sanders, and when the party leaders rejected him (because of Bernie's lack of movement toward the right) for Clinton, they voted for the next-leftmost candidate: Trump. Now the corrupt Democrat party sees its mistake, and you know that in future elections, Democrats are going to be further left than they've been for the last decade. It won't be pretty, but you're finally going to see a more clearly divided left and right in America again, after we've all taken the last decade or two (depending on your thoughts about whatever GWB was).

The left achieved their objective in the 2016 election. They won. They elected a left-leaning president, and they jerked the Democrats back to the left, by pointing at Trump and saying "we want that."

And all while this happened, the right slept blissfully and ignorantly, only getting Johnson about 4-5% of the vote.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[butchersong]

First, "SJW" could just as easily mean people on the more conservative side of things who call people "snowflakes" or are pushing for tougher immigration enforcement.

Nope. Here is the definition of "Social Justice":
justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society. "individuality gives way to the struggle for social justice"

This is fundamentally liberal in the same way that marxism is fundamentally liberal. It isn't a huge deal... conservatives have their own annoying types but liberals get to own this particular group.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't imagine that anyone working at Facebook is surprised by this.

You've never worked for a large organization, I see.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are saying tax policy and corn subsidies have zero impact on the national economy?

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

63 million voted Clinton, not Trump. Only 60 million voted Trump.
180m or so Americans didn't vote at all.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL.

I never said there weren't conservatives in California you stupid fuck. And I'm not engaging in Hyperbole. You guys are.

And let's be clear, I DID NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP. I'm just not a reactionary.

And I was the one who mentioned facts dumbass. The ACTUAL facts you stupid fuck are that Democrats use the same data. When they use it. It's fine. When Trump uses it. HOLY FUCK WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW!!!

You did not address this one iota.

You also didn't address the donation thing. Yes. That has actually happened to people. Get caught donating to a conservative cause? Even a dollar? Better run buddy!

And yes, I remember the articles on Obama and others using this data. People were gushing all over about how wonderful it was at the time.

The FACT of the matter, is that Democrats didn't do well last time around and have been looking EVERYWHERE but at themselves for scapegoats. Be it Russia, Facebook or whoever.

Democrats were so 100% certain that Trump couldn't win that... Oh my gosh... Some Democrats even said they WANTED Trump to run for the Republicans. Not only that, but back during that timeframe, some even claimed they switched over to the Republican primary so they could vote Trump in as the Republican pick. No one knows actual numbers for this, but it shows how completely certain you guys were.

So no, don't start this shit when you can't back it up. The whole tone changed after Trump won. Even a number of Liberals (who aren't too popular) admitted to this and laughed at fellow liberals. It was pure arrogance up to the election. And then afterwards it was horror and accusations of betrayal non-stop. Even people like myself we're accused.

And no... It's not anything new. When things don't go the "right way", this stuff happens and let's just say certain people just love to "hang you" after the accusations start flying.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

There used to be "company towns" and taxes paid by companies went to support the local infrastructure in a symbiotic relationship.

Company Town. You use that word but don't seem to know what it actually means.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

So you don't have anything at all to offer in response except an ad hominem and a couple of other unrelated comments.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

When you walk into a grocery store and 90% of everything on the shelves is made by a small number of companies, and is highly processed food with a number of very unhealthy additives, it may not exactly be a "shadowy cabal" but you have companies who are motivated by a common goal: to sell you more stuff.

There's nothing wrong with companies wanting to make a profit, but sometimes you need to look beyond just the immediate desires of one company or industry. If the way food companies make a profit is to sell us increasingly unhealthy food, which then causes a marked uptick in a number of chronic health conditions, causing all of us to pay more for health insurance... doesn't it make sense that for the good of society as a whole, we will step in and tell the food companies that they can't do X?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

You apparently haven't been paying attention then.

It's not that Trump's campaign used data from social media platforms, it's that they used what was essentially STOLEN data from social media platforms. Here's the quick and dirty refresher: Some person collected a bunch of data on Facebook users in a perfectly legal way. They then passed that data along to someone else in a not so perfectly legal way. That person promised Facebook they would delete said data when they were called out on it, but went right on using the data. The fact that the data being used was not exactly kosher was an open secret in the land of conservative political campaigns, but they all kept right on using it anyway. This isn't a retribution story, it's a story of moral comeuppance.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

average user

Average facebook user is probably a fake profile, bot.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

How do you add sugar to eggs, vegetables, beef, chicken, etc?

Who is making you buy shit in a box?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

It was scraping your contacts' public information and keeping it, without your contact's consent ...

So, it's in the same scope of public CCTVs? Seriously, scraping public information is scraping public information. Tying it to private information (contact list) that people willing provide is hardly nefarious or unethical.

...and that data was used for more than just allowing the Application's users to target their friends

Presumably it was designed to allow the Application's creator to target their friends who weren't already using the App and/or weren't Obama supporters. That's basically the core thing you'd expect from any campaign.

Facebook helped the Obama campaign in doing this though the Facebook API.

Was this a public API? Did Facebook themselves help the campaign or was it merely the presence of the API, which many people and companies used, that helped them?

The keeping of this data violated Facebook's policy but nobody cared.

That'd seem the actual key argument. If this is a violation of ToS, then presumably the CFAA could be used against the Obama campaign in the same way it's been used against other people. I'd welcome this, especially if this overturns the idea that ToS are legally binding. Public information is public, and a ToS shouldn't make it illegal to personally keep or use data that public data.

The Cambridge Analytica application was a bit more opaque about this, collecting your contacts w/o your direct consent, but to your friends the net effect is the same is it not?

The point is that the whole reason that direct consent was never requested is that there would undoubtedly be people who refused to provide consent. Ergo, the net effect would not be the same. Further, the opaqueness of asking for something of value--information in surveys--while deceptively pretending to be someone you're not would generally be considered fraud. The next step would have been Cambridge Analytica claimed to be working for the Clinton campaign to further cloud their purpose.

Facebook didn't assist CA with their application, but provided the common API that allowed it. Both the collection and keeping of this data violated Facebook's policy, but the API allowed it.

Which is a solid argument that Facebook doesn't have much standing to complain, the API provides insufficient safeguards, and the ToS is badly enforced.

So, yea this was a bit different... But not enough to matter all that much.

I think it does. In the end, I imagine civil and criminal cases will leave it courts to decide.

Actually, the Facebook assistance to the Obama Campaign with their app might be construed as a violation of campaign finance laws as it was undeclared and not paid services that Facebook usually charged for.

That'd be great to know if true. What's your source for the involvement by Facebook with the Obama Campaign? Some light googling, and I get as far as noting that Facebook's involvement was more tactful, implicit acceptance of the scraping activities when they became aware of them and nothing more. Facebook had the same behavior with Cambridge Analytica until it became bad PR.

I'm not saying it necessarily was an FEC violation, but I would urge caution about pushing this narrative too far by those with political motives. It could easily back fire on you...

If Obama's campaign did in fact engage in an FEC violation, I want him punished. The same with Trump. The same with if they violated CFAA or other laws. My motivation isn't political. It's legal.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[johnsnails]

They will spring clean it out of existence as it gets popular.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

And turned the company into a hostile workplace for anyone who isn't on the far left. Google has employees seriously complaining about capitalism on internal message boards. But you can't suggest that feminism might have some downsides without be fired.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[radarskiy]

Why do people still get moderated informative when they lie about the Obama campaign doing the same thing? The article you link to refutes your claim and its own thesis.

The Obama campaign: a) said it was collecting data instead of doing something else, b) said it was the campaign and that it was collecting the data for the campaign, instead of pretending to be some other organization doing something else for some other purpose, c) made it obvious what it was collecting, and d) collected the data only when the user volunteered it after deliberately downloaded the app.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really any surprise that a Trump supporter doesn't understand consent?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[CaptainDork]

All well said, and this especially:

... there is no work and employment loyalty.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[bobbied]

BUT... Please remember that the Obama campaign KEPT the data for their own use in violation of the privacy agreements. The Campaign collected a user's contacts with consent, but ALSO then collected and KEPT information about those contacts WITHOUT a contact's consent. So, even if I didn't give consent, my data could have been collected and kept by the Obama campaign if someone who had me on their contact list loaded the app. This used the very same API that CA used....

This collection was done DIRECTLY by the Obama campaign and the DNC was given the data... The CA guys where just using data they had collected IN 2014 and where told my FB to delete (and apparently didn't), which only involved Trump's campaign in that they hired CA to run some targeted FB ad buys during the campaign. There is no indication that the Trump campaign or the RNC ever received copies of the data.

Then there is the whole "How did Obama's Campaign develop their app" question which unfortunately involves a lot of help from FB which wasn't paid for.... Which really could amount to an improper donation to the campaign by Facebook.... But hey, let's not push this too far or we may end up with a FEC investigation too.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

They inject it, soak it, or a couple other methods. Walmart dyes thier meat red, and you evidently forgot all those advertisements in the early 2000s about no phosphates injected into whomevers chicken. Unless you grow it yourself, or buy from a known small time farmer, you have no idea what the hell is in your food but I can tell you this: there's something in there besides whatever food it says it is. But hey, just keep playing dumb so you can "win" your stupid argument.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Good. Republitards fuck up everything they touch to either leech money or just to be a dick (show of power). THEY are why we can't have nice things. Stay the fuck out of our nice places. You don't like it, go make your own nazibook with blackjack and hookers.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[grep -v '.*' *]

You misunderstand. Obama and his helpers cared greatly, this was at the time a wonderful new Democratic tool to get them in touch of their interested voters -- it was (literally) 21st century high-tech stuff. (I only heard that "they had it" but no details for this "excite the base" thing.) Hillary (who else?) was going to inherit this wonderful tool as well, with only a few plumbing problems. (A It was still Hillary, and B it was still Bernie. Hillary "Won" as she should have. That's why you make you're the one counting the votes.) But then Trump came along and used the tool and won overall and ruined it. THAT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN: the same tool/knife used by wonderful Dr. Hill'y Save-A-Life was now used by Trump-the-Ripper to slash open the body politic, and we've got to find someone to blame and someway for it not to happen again.

Let me put it in a Slashdot / CaveMan / Car symbology: Obama Good. Voter Data Good. Finding Affected and Concerned Voters Even Gooder. Hillary (Mostly) Good. Easy Win, do I take ALL or just "almost all"? No Problem. But Joke Trump used same tool, stole election from Glenda the Good aka Hillary. Trump Bad, Tool must now be Bad. Bad tool, bad! Someone made tool? Bad Maker, Too. (Just take one for the team already. And please delete all the old access records too? No one cares about history -- just look at how the complete fantasy movie Chappaquiddick is doing. Kthxbye.)

Now for the car analogy: Cars good. Cars need gas, bad. Dinos make gas, good. Bam, Bam goes Dino heads. Now we ignore meat, eat much tofu and yogurt as vegans, swim in tar pits, and wait for someone to invent wheel. There, done! And here I thought wheels didn't have three corners.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who has a moral compass as I've been doing the same.

It was just a bit over a month ago that a recruiter from Facebook hit me up again and again I stated that I don't use any Facebook products because I value my privacy and while I believe Facebook does some cool and interesting work on account of the scale that it operates at, ethically I cannot work for it.

Facebook obviously believes that everyone has a price, or it doesn't have a CRM system for HR otherwise it would not continue to approach me every six months.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck getting it all past any currently certified dietitians. *Several decades* of bad science is a tough boulder to stop rolling down a hill. I'm completely surrounded by people dropping like flies to inflammatory syndrome ailments, and I'm supposed to be completely beholden to government scientists on all sorts of other things.

Not me. You fooled me once. If you can't show me some verifiable proof, including solid predictive capabilities of your model, you can go the fuck home, I ain't listening.

United States of They Thought They Could Make People Better.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

He is lowering taxes.(for his rich friends, not you) Stunting the free flow of illegals(where?). improving job opportunities(where?). lowering unuemployment(where?). Crushing China(I think you mean helping China grow and overtake the US). Making NK nuke free man(If anyone is doing that it's the Chinese). It's horrible all right(it sure is, wait until you wake up from your coma!).

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

Ya, fuck you.

Gad damned tin foil hat assholes and your bullshit.

Finding unadulterated food is easy if you have half a brain which you apparently don't.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[drsquare]

When are the right going to take responsibility for their own actions? No-one forced you to vote Trump, you chose to do it.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

So if a company opens up a nuclear storage facility and some fuel rods get loaned to a university (for some money) where the researchers study them and team up with some freedom fighters to make a bomb we should only get mad at the freedom fighters, right?

NO! We should be mad at the company that created the nuclear storage facility for their total disregard of safety because they should have foreseen the problem with loaning out dangerous materials to random researchers.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

last I heard trumps approval ratings where up

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't have ethics, why are you even paying rent?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Weak enough to trigger you.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

The mental contortions you have to go through to convince yourself that he wasn't fired out of retaliation for his views... "They fired him to stop the shit storm, but I guess that didn't work." It didn't work, and if the SJW lackeys at google were honest with themselves, they would admit that wasn't even the goal. Maybe HR, PR and management at google convinced themselves that their goal was to put a stop to the shitshow, but I suspect deep down they know exactly why they fired his ass: to make him pay. They wanted him to suffer for attacking their ideologies and to send a message to anyone else who might be thinking of challenging the status quo.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

So many on the left like you try to paint everything that isn't in your little bubble as evil. It is people like you, on both sides of the isle, that are ruining our once great country.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[the_B0fh]

Yet another person who doesn't understand anecdote is not data. What you are doing on your own is one thing.

What is clearly done by the industry to push sugary food down to the masses is very clear. And most people are not well versed in food nutrition.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[the_B0fh]

They have traced the "fat is bad" back to two Harvard researchers who were paid off to write that shit. You can continue eating whatever you want to.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, for-profit companies with ethics, in the US? Lol, you're funny. Finance? See all the unethical bullshit that went down during the 2008 financial crisis, almost entirely unpunished mind you.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

We don't have to guess.
https://projects.fivethirtyeig...

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure he failed to denounce Nazi's because he included Antifa in his statement about there being people reacting violently on both sides, and that both sides were a problem.
As a Virginia citizen seeing all of the nutters on both sides coming to have a riot in my state, over statues that should be allowed to remain, with a big sign saying "This statue was erected by members of the Democratic Party." I call bullshit on the "failed to properly denounce Nazis," when what you mean is "Failed to denounce Nazi's and say it was OK for Antifa to engage in violent acts because Nazis."

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Couldn't find a more left leaning site? No doubt these are the same guys who kept saying Hillary would win.
Let me give a you a clue. When someone calls me for a survey, I don't answer the phone. If I don't know you I don't answer the phone. When I'm leaving the polling place and you ask who I voted for I don't answer you. It's called a secret ballot for a reason.
Go Trump.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

Sure he failed to denounce Nazi's

Okay, so why did you respond and say I was "insane" for suggesting that? Sheesh what a waste of time.

when what you mean is "Failed to denounce Nazi's and say it was OK for Antifa to engage in violent acts because Nazis."

No, I don't mean that. Are you telling me it would have been hard to say something like: "I vehemently disagree with the values and actions of the pro-white power (neo-Nazi) protesters but support they right to organize and march. The violent actions taken by Antifa are never appropriate."

Wow, that was hard. I didn't even have 20 speech writers to assist me.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

Really?

Yes, really, You are free to link whatever more reputable survey you see fit. I see you didn't link anything. I think that action speaks for itself.

When someone calls me for a survey, I don't answer the phone.

Enjoy your poor polling numbers then.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[CaptainDork]

Like you, I was not an IT guy at all for-profit companies in the US.

You may have worked in IT for finance, but I'm naturally skeptical.

When I interview for my first IT job, I competed with several others for the position.

Management told me later that I got the job because of my answer to the first question:

What do you bring to the table?

I said, "Ethics. You get that first and people skills, next. After that, you get the skills I have now, and my natural aptitude to embrace new technologies as they appear on the horizon."

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

anyone that uses the term SJW has zero credibility. What I read is:

They're catching shit from their SJW bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla ..useless shit from my mouth

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the bigger thing not addressed is that silicon valley is actually a hotbed of libertarianism, as is most of the tech world.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

So, your saying they were looking for bullshitters and you supplied exactly their flavor?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

I was a founding member of Pagans for Reagan.

SJWs have nothing to do with 'what's right'. Your an idiot if you take them at their stated word.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[CaptainDork]

Add the "ethical," part and you are correct.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

I see you played the "I can't refute this argument because everything I've Googled leads towards it being true so I'm just gonna ad hominem and pretend like I've won!" card.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

'Ethical' is part of 'bullshitter', the key part. To para: 'Once you can fake that, the rest is easy.'

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[bobbied]

Just so you know... CA was working for CRUZ initially, not Trump. Also, the data in question was collected prior to 2014.

All the Trump campaign actually did was buy ad targeting on FB from CA, not the data. And the issue CA has is that they had agreed with FB to delete the data collected prior to 2014.

SO.... I'm curious how folks are trying to imply the Trump campaign did something wrong? They didn't collect the data, never had the data, and only purchased targeting services from CA. There is no indication that Trump's campaign knew any of CA's sordid history concerning the data being used to target Facebook users so why are they being implicated?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[david_thornley]

When is the Right ever going to take any personal responsibility for their actions?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[david_thornley]

I took a glance at what the Labor Relations folks said. They said he was not just submitting his essay where appropriate, but pushing it to people who didn't want it. He himself distributed it outside what should have been it intended audience.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[CaptainDork]

As long as you add it, you are correct, right?

You did and we move on.

So quit if you don't like it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why make sure everyone knows? Oh yeah, virtue signalling FTW

and that...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is why you don't hire snowflakes (or anyone in California).

Auschwitz guards

[sinij]

I am sure these FB employees were just following the orders, but why act only now? FB practices were well-known even outside of FB, this couldn't possibly be the first time they found out what is happening in the showers.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[freeze128]

Perhaps the engineers succumbed to pressure from their friends or family. Or maybe they were outright threatened by activists.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[sinij]

Considering HQ is in Silicon Valley, it is likely anti-Trump activists, and not newly found moral fortitude or rediscovered respect for privacy that motivates these engineers.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[Anonymous Coward]

They are more like stasi employees and they should suffer the same fate.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure these FB employees were just following the orders, but why act only now?

True story, in the early 70's my Dad was working as an engineer for a supplier to Boeing. A hippie walked in off the street and asked for a job. They hired him and put him to work in the stock room. He turned out to be an excellent employee and everybody liked him.

One day he asks, "What are these things we're building?"

Somebody says, "Oh, they're just electronic countermeasures for B52 bombers."

The guy quietly walked out the door and they never heard from him again.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[Anonymous Coward]

So...the Chinese and Indians finally became enlightened with respects to the concept of freedom and liberty? All in a days job, eh?

Re:Auschwitz guards

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that didn't take long for the story to get Godwined...

If somehow you think Facebook's nonsense is akin to the mass murder of millions of people, I'm not even sure what to tell you.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[ooloorie]

FB practices were well-known even outside of FB, this couldn't possibly be the first time they found out what is happening in the showers.

They didn't care as long as it was for "progressive causes" and "progressive candidates": government healthcare, government retirement programs, a healthy middle class, breaking up big corporations, high taxes on capital gains, eminent domain, value-based compensation, etc. You know, mostly what those early 20th century progressives wanted. And just like their predecessors, they hate conservatives and classical liberals.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[Anonymous Coward]

it is likely

Is it likely?

This may come as a surprise to you, but there are a lot of Republicans in California. Just because the majority of voters are Democrats doesn't mean that it's a homogenous society.

I'm not saying that these decisions aren't selfishly motivated, but you presume too much.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[JackieBrown]

We really need different analogies or references for "just following orders." I get what you are saying but comparing this to attempted genocide is a disservice.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[HornWumpus]

These are a self selected group. Not a random sample.

I'd take the opportunity to just fire the lot, or even better, trick a competitor into hiring them away from me.

These people do realize...

[forkfail]

... that Facebook's entire business model is based on collecting, using, and selling data and metadata about people?

This sudden appearance of embracing moral behavior and ethics would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetically self serving and so hypocritically self righteous as to be nauseating.

Re:These people do realize...

[Anonymous Coward]

They most likely had a change of heart when they couldn't come up with good answers around their friends and family.

Fuckerberg 2020

[NicknameUnavailable]

lol jk

Re:Fuckerberg 2020

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure him whipping it out and slipping it into your timeline without lube will get you to vote for him. Ufh Ufh Ufh.

Re:Fuckerberg 2020

[DontBeAMoran]

Vote Kram Buckerzerg in 2020!

It's very telling

[Train0987]

How Slashdot and others keep referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics scandal" as if Facebook's business model is only wrong when one side takes advantage of it.

Re:It's very telling

[Anonymous Coward]

How Slashdot and others keep referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics scandal" as if Facebook's business model is only wrong when one side takes advantage of it.

Because the "wrong" side took advantage of it.

Re:It's very telling

[Anonymous Coward]

Say it a few more hundred times dude. I'm not quite sick of seeing your nick showing up in the comments yet.

Re:It's very telling

[bobbied]

How Slashdot and others keep referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics scandal" as if Facebook's business model is only wrong when one side takes advantage of it.

You speak truth! https://www.nationalreview.com...

Re:It's very telling

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the SJW aren't wrong. Trump IS toxic....to them. ROFLMAO

Re:It's very telling

[eaglesrule]

Indeed it is a very selective outrage.

The lever pullers, the 'trending' curators and the talking points writers have decided Facebook is problematic for supplying voter data to the enemy. You aren't going to find Google doing that, and Facebook is either with them, or against them.

Re:It's very telling

[SeaFox]

How Slashdot and others keep referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics scandal" as if Facebook's business model is only wrong when one side takes advantage of it.

I'm sorry? I don't recall Slashdot ever getting a hard-on for Facebook and their business model. A site that's very existence is to spy on you for an advertising business has never been loved around here. If people are referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics Scandal" it might be because they are referring to this specific current event and it's links to the current administration.

Since you seem to claim this is a repeat issue and partisan politics are involved in the response here, would you be so kind as to name a similar data collection issue that was widely reported in the news and triggered actual action by law enforcement officials but benefited the Democratic party?

Re:It's very telling

[Anonymous Coward]

So In what was is this model different than the Slashdot model. I just ask because I see adds for extra powerful dildos following me 3verywhere I go on the web and on Slashdot. My feeling is that the web illuminati knows my surfing and buying habits. Are you seriously telling me that Slashdot does not make a profit every time i buy a dildo or pair of used female panties.

The internet became creepy as soon as Al Gore pushed through his legislation allowing people to use it for commercial traffic.

Re:It's very telling

[eaglesrule]

OP is alluding to the same kind of editorial bias that led to story after story ad nauseaum of Russia collusion.

Likewise with the 'Cambridge Analystics' scandal there is a political objective at work. You don't have to agree or approve or support one side or the other to at least recognize that this occurs.

How is whatsapp better??

[captbollocks]

I had a WhatsApp chat with my friend about news analysis software which I have not done anything with for years, and 30 minutes later I was seeing Facebook ads for news analysis software.
So Facebook is scanning my end to end encrypted chats, which is considerably worse than finding out I love gun toting puppy dogs.

How did they not know this?

[damn_registrars]

The very reason why facebook existed from the beginning was to sell personal information. Why did they take a job with them if they were concerned about the ethics of doing that?

Re:How did they not know this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did they take a job with them if they were concerned about the ethics of doing that?

Yes. And, maybe they are now concerned when they weren't before. Maybe they have discovered or re-evaluated their ethics. Should we continue to berate them even as they begin changing in a way that we approve?

Re:How did they not know this?

[swillden]

The very reason why facebook existed from the beginning was to sell personal information.

I hate to defend Facebook, but they don't and AFAIK never have sold personal information. They use personal information to target advertisements. They also provide a platform that allows other people to write apps which may collect personal information, with user approval. The CA scandal is because they weren't sufficiently careful about ensuring that APIs didn't allow access to data about "friends" of those who used the apps.

It's totally believable that many Facebook engineers haven't scrutinized the app APIs, or don't have the security expertise to recognize the vulnerabilities, so never knew about this massive information leakage. Now they know about it, and they're bothered by it, and they feel like they don't want to be associated with it.

Re:How did they not know this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's totally believable that many Facebook engineers haven't scrutinized the app APIs, or don't have the security expertise to recognize the vulnerabilities, so never knew about this massive information leakage. Now they know about it, and they're bothered by it, and they feel like they don't want to be associated with it.

Posting as AC for reasons (i'm moderating). I used the app API many years ago (8-10 I think) and the lack of security was very obvious back then. If FB's engineers didn't know this, its only possibly if they never used their own app API. Someone knew, its just a question of how widely that information was known but its certain that some percentage of the FB engineers used the App API and all of them knew it had very little in the way of security.

But they didnt care when they worked with Obama?

[Anonymous Coward]

And literally gave all the information on literally every single user on FB?

The summary says it all

[RogueWarrior65]

"Facebook's core product might be to blame"
Well, when something is free, YOU are the product. Ergo, YOU are to blame.

"Hacking" the Election

[bill_mcgonigle]

It's important to remember that Facebook's algorithm had a far greater impact on the outcome of the election than any Russian troll accounts did.

It's time the FEC demanded discovery of Facebook's feed-display algorithm and make it public for all academics to scrutinize and criticize, for the survival of the Republic.

I'm sure they'll get right on this after they finish prosecuting for the hacking of the Democratic Primary by the DNC. I'm still astonished the Berners didn't riot.

Now back to your regularly scheduled #democracytheater .

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Train0987]

Facebook had ZERO to do with the outcome of the election. Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!". All of these BS excuses are nothing but delusions to avoid facing the reality of being rejected.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Oswald McWeany]

Facebook had ZERO to do with the outcome of the election. Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!". All of these BS excuses are nothing but delusions to avoid facing the reality of being rejected.

Not one person in the US thinks, wow that Pepsi commercial made me want to drink a Pepsi. Yet people do drink Pepsi, and Pepsi continues to advertise.

No one thinks they're being influenced by ads, or political propaganda. Everyone thinks they're above that, but here's a secret: you are influenced by ads. You're at a store all it has is Pepsi, Coke, or Smith's off-brand cola and you want a cola... odds are very high you pick a Pepsi or a Coke because you're familiar with them- or if you do buy a Smith's it is because it is cheaper. Brand familiarity has made Pepsi or Coke more appealing.

Same happens with these political BS stories. Trump is kinda like Pepsi- he's always throwing his name out there to get publicity. This facebook campaign was like an expensive ad campaign (and ignored by financing laws). No-one, not one person, thinks they were influenced by the fake stories... but they probably think that whilst drinking a Coke or a Pepsi.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Train0987]

Oh good grief. Trump won the nomination as a rejection of the fake Republicans he was running against and then the same people voted for him over Hillary Clinton. NOBODY was swayed by a damned Facebook ad. That's just delusional.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[farble1670]

Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!". All of these BS excuses are nothing but delusions to avoid facing the reality of being rejected.

You should read up on how advertising works. You might find it enlightening.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!".

You're right. My idiot co-workers continue to cite things like Infowars as evidence that Trump is being persecuted by a "deep state." I'm pretty sure no amount of evidence will ever convince them that they were wrong, as anything that doesn't adhere to their pro-Trump narrative is automatically dismissed as a conspiracy or "fake news."

I used to believe that brainwashing wasn't real. Now I'm not so sure. You Trump supporters are becoming more and more cult-like. No amount of evidence will convince you that your precious leader is a scumbag—it just hardens your victimization delusion.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!".

"Not one" is a really high bar. And, based on polling data, we know a lot of Trump supporters feel disappointed in his presidency. That some would blame "being tricked" over "being wrong" is just human nature. Whether they specify that it was Facebook that tricked them... I'm not sure.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Train0987]

If presented with the same choice tomorrow between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do you think any Trump voters would be voting for Hillary? That's all I'm saying.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Oswald McWeany]

Oh good grief. Trump won the nomination as a rejection of the fake Republicans he was running against and then the same people voted for him over Hillary Clinton. NOBODY was swayed by a damned Facebook ad. That's just delusional.

And no one ever buys Pepsi cola.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

... Dammit its 3am and now I want a pepsi!

(goes for some milk instead)

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

Commentary on ads for Sad Coke aside, you appear to be right about the influence of fake stories on the election. FTA:

Richard Gunther, Paul A. Beck and Erik C. Nisbet, the study's authors, inserted three popular fake news stories from the 2016 campaign into a 281-question YouGov survey given to a sample that included 585 Obama supporters — 23 percent of whom didn't vote for Clinton, either by abstaining or picking another candidate (10 percent voted Trump, which is in line with other estimates).

Here are the false stories, along with the percentages of Obama supporters who believed they were at least “probably” true (in parenthesis):

        Clinton was in “very poor health due to a serious illness” (12 percent)
        Pope Francis endorsed Trump (8 percent)
        Clinton approved weapons sales to Islamic jihadists, “including ISIS” (20 percent)

Overall about one-quarter of 2012 Obama voters believed at least one of these stories, and of that group 45 percent voted for Clinton. Of those who believed none of the fake news stories, 89 percent voted for Clinton.

[...]

For those defecting from Clinton, believing fake news had a greater effect than anything except being a Republican or personally disliking Clinton. Obama voters who believed one of these fake news stories “were 3.9 times more likely to defect from the Democratic ticket in 2016 than those who believed none of these false claims, after taking into account all of these other factors,” the researchers write.

Given that these fake stories were widely circulated on Facebook, the inference that Facebook had a non-zero effect on the election is fairly obvious.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

...You Trump supporters are becoming more and more cult-like...

Good grief, now that is the pot calling the kettle black.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[jader3rd]

Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!".

Just because they're not thinking it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Yes, certainly some would. They have said so in public: in polls, response to interviews, and even "confessional" style op-eds.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[butchersong]

I'm very cautious about that noise about Trump regret. These are the same groups who's polling indicated a Hillary sweep on election night. If I had to guess the same mechanisms are involved too and the pollsters have learned nothing. 95%+ of the news is critical of Trump, it's unpopular still to like Trump, you call someone up asking them if they regret voting for Trump... some of them say "yes"... odds are in the voting booth next time they'll still vote for him again.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook had ZERO to do with the outcome of the election. Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!". All of these BS excuses are nothing but delusions to avoid facing the reality of being rejected.

Not one person in the US thinks, wow that Pepsi commercial made me want to drink a Pepsi. Yet people do drink Pepsi, and Pepsi continues to advertise.

People who already have tried Pepsi and liked it continue to drink it no matter what, the advertising to gain new customers among the younger generation. I see plenty of Pepsi ads but still prefer Coca-Cola as I like the taste better and only drink Pepsi if Coke isn't available. Didn't matter if Dad bought Pepsi most of the time because he liked it, I still wanted a Coke and would get my own.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh good grief. Trump won the nomination as a rejection of the fake Republicans he was running against and then the same people voted for him over Hillary Clinton. NOBODY was swayed by a damned Facebook ad. That's just delusional.

And no one ever buys Pepsi cola.

People who already have tried Pepsi and liked it continue to drink it no matter what, the advertising to gain new customers among the younger generation. I see plenty of Pepsi ads but still prefer Coca-Cola as I like the taste better and only drink Pepsi if Coke isn't available. Didn't matter if Dad bought Pepsi most of the time because he liked it, I still wanted a Coke and would get my own.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more like a Coke drinker doesn't become a Pepsi drink because he saw a few Pepsi ads one day.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Anonymous Coward]

Not one Trump voter is thinking

FTFY

Employee's quitting = Looking out for #1

[GregMmm]

Are these employee's now just moving? How many years have they been working there and just now realize how FB uses personal data? Is it they didn't mind how the data was used if they believed in the ends it was used for?

All of this could be true, but in the end they are looking out for number 1: Themselves. If you've worked in the Tech sector, you can see the end coming. The rats start abandoning ship first, or employees if you will. This is also a smart move as the company will put the blame on the employee soon enough. So get out while you can.

So FB employees leaving because of ethics? Sounds like leaving is actually showing what their ethics is: Me first!!

fuck you chris!

[Anonymous Coward]

There you are spamming amazon and youtube affiliate links with yet another fake account, you revenue stream hogging disgusting fat sexist tube of lard, Christopher Dale Reimer!

You can be sure I will be watching this fake account too. I know this is you because you told me you were working on your freepass 11 file server and you are so dumb that you can't even masquerade yourself properly.

Now, I told you I was out of meds last week and you didn't even care to contact me you lazy fucker.

How many times do I have to express the emergency of the situation??????

The python click script you wrote for my pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work!!!!!!

You fucking incompetent python script writer!!!

When it works, I get 4000+ clicks a day on my pheromone revenue stream web site but only 5 or 6 without it!!!!

Now, it seems like you dont care and that you have abandoned me you heartless fucking pig!

Bonus:
Here is a story that creimer told me when convincing me what a hard life he had:

The tree was him and the tree knot was his butt hole!

So, his uncle packed his fat ass with lard and with his cock! Not that it makes much of a difference but anyway, there it is!

Signed:
Ethell, The girl that used to love you and now hates you, burn in hell where you belong you sexist pig!

Re:fuck you chris!

[Anonymous Coward]

No one cares about your creimer fixation.

Re: fuck you chris!

[Anonymous Coward]

Except at least me, the AC who posted that, i guess...

Cdreimer is a stain of a human being though.

Is this f-ing news?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never had a Facebook account and think the whole idea of a global gossip site is asinine... but could we PLEASE stop treating any little piece of crap about Facebook as news? All this FUD is pissing me of and consume electrons that could be used to transit real news.

Re:Is this f-ing news?

[Oswald McWeany]

I have never had a Facebook account and think the whole idea of a global gossip site is asinine... but could we PLEASE stop treating any little piece of crap about Facebook as news? All this FUD is pissing me of and consume electrons that could be used to transit real news.

I'm not on facebook either. I think it's asinine too. HOWEVER, when an organization has over a billion users worldwide, and over 50% of the US voting age population, it becomes newsworthy. Facebook directly impacts most voting Americans. Indirectly, they have data on all Americans. They are a major player in advertising, broadcasting, and news distribution and data collection.

It's naïve to think that they don't matter just because you don't use them.

Re: Is this f-ing news?

[cyber-vandal]

"I don't have a Facebook account" is the new "I don't have a TV"

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

FB practices were well known to anyone...

[Anonymous Coward]

who taked to a facebook tech dating back 15+ years.

I listened to a guy who was getting filthy rich working for them back in the early '00s and this shit was already going on back then. The deep data analysis has gotten much better in the years since, but anyone who thought facebook provided privacy, except from people not paying for their feeds, has been a sucker since day 1.

Agreed

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'm surprised nobody has brought up this gem: "We didn't do enough." As if facebook's only wrongdoing was lack of action.

That's public relations speak for "we sold you for profit, and we're sorry we got caught."

WhatsApp is even less secure

[WillAffleckUW]

But, hey, jump ship while it's sinking to another ship with bigger holes in it if you want to.

You do realize where we get our intel from, right?

Fuck Zuck!

[Anonymous Coward]

FUCK Zuck! Zuck, you suck!

zuck - (verb) - synonyms: fuck

Spare us the crocodile tears

[smooth wombat]

Anyone who worked at FB who suddenly has a change of heart is being disingenuous or trying to save their skin. Everyone at the company knew their sole job was to collect data on people and sell it.

They weren't offering anything to the users other than a place to spout off their nonsense. Since they weren't charging for the service (excluding advertisers), where did people think the money came from to run operations?

To claim they didn't know or now suffer umbrage at what has been going on is a joke at best. They were happy to collect their large salaries and stock bonuses, being made millionaires overnight, while the data was being collected. Don't now come to the public and proclaim their disgust. If they truly wanted to make a statement, the least they could do would be to give back their stock and leave the company completely.

Re:Spare us the crocodile tears

[slavdude]

Does this mean that web developers should stop using React?

Legal work and good paycheck

[Anonymous Coward]

Legal work and good paycheck. I don't see a problem with others doing that.

I have a moral issue against using php for anything and supporting Windows or OSX, but I could be a little fringe.

Memo is nothing

[jbmartin6]

The memo is nothing, only the internet lynch mob would make anything of it. It was the equivalent of a hammer company executive saying "We make hammers so people can put in nails. Some people might hit people or animals over the head with our hammers, or use them to smash car windows. But we believe enabling people to put in nails is a valuable mission."

Is anyone really surprised about FB?

[JoystickJedi]

It has been obvious for years to any thinking person that Facebook's business model is selling information about its users. Honestly, the whole site has turned into a major pain with mostly retarded content. Google Plus is actually better and more interesting in my opinion. I predict in 5 years no one will really care about FB, just like no one cares about MySpace now. This most recent scandal is nothing new for FB, it's just that the sheeple have finally caught on to the scam.

Wordle

[Anonymous Coward]

Senator, yes that's a very important question. AI will take care of it soon.

The whole lot should be in prison

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it may be that all those engineers and developers may fear being targeted by the justice department as enabling collusion with a foreign power.

1950s parallels

[rcgorton.dg]

In this case, an actually valid concern: "Have you now, or have you ever been employed by facebook" (paraphrasing "have you now, or have you ever been a communist") If you were/are employed by facebook, you clearly/obviously/intentionally took steps to undermine the privacy of American citizens, which violates the 4th amendment: "...effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, ..." Because of this, you are guilty of intentional acts agains the US Constitution,. Yep, TREASON!

All just show

[Anonymous Coward]

They were OK with it when it got Obama elected and they were all heroes.

OF course their model is to sell all your information, so there's that.

Why did they join at all?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone with half a brain would research the company they plan to join.

Anyone with a quarter of a brain would have known ten years ago what Facebook's game was.

Change of heart?

[Anonymous Coward]

A "change of heart" or just lying?

Running scared

[Anonymous Coward]

They know they might be as lucky as youtube employees when the Charlie Hebdo style visit comes. They know they would die, and their families too. Zuck might be difficult to hit, but those tens of thousands of employees he pays are all a target because this is war. Zuck knows he cannot protect all his slaves, and he cannot protect the fleet of buses that brings them to work, and those buses were already a target. Hopefully we will see FB, google, twitter, youtube buses being blow up with hundreds of dead employees, families being targeted and tortured bataclan style.

I'm switching teams too

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't work at FB but my boss is a slacker and I'm 90% convinced he has a SIDE HUSTLE going on.