Some Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Asking To Switch Departments Over Ethical Concerns (businessinsider.com)

Some dissatisfied Facebook engineers are reportedly attempting to switch divisions to work on Instagram or WhatsApp, rather than continue work on the platform responsible for the Cambridge Analytica scandal, according to a recent report from the New York Times. An anonymous reader writes: Many believe Facebook should have done more to handle the data responsibly, and the events that followed increased scrutiny against Facebook, reportedly taking a toll on employees working on the platform. Since the news came out, CEO Mark Zuckerberg and COO Sheryl Sandberg have spoken to the media on a few occasions, but it was days before the company commented on the scandal, which it now estimates around 87 million total users affected. Then, a leaked memo from Facebook executive Andrew Bosworth written in 2016 revealed a "growth at all costs" mentality that put Facebook in a position to be held responsible for the situation it's found itself in. As it became evident that Facebook's core product might be to blame, engineers working on it reportedly found it increasingly difficult to stand by what it built.

Comments

Is it really ethical or CYA

[sqorbit]

Is this really a move because of ethical reasons. I can't imagine that anyone working at Facebook is surprised by this. I'd tend to believe the a over is more to cover your own ass. At best employees had a clue that something like this was possible, at worst they had direct knowledge of it. I don't think anyone working at Facebook suddenly had a moral epiphany.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[HornWumpus]

They're catching shit from their SJW 'friends'.

I'm sure there are many thoughtless morons working for Facebook that _were_ surprised by this. They shouldn't have been, but what can you say, morons.

They still don't get it, they think: It's not that what they were doing was bad, it's that the evil 'Drumpf' people came in and 'used them' and their data for bad things.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

No - I think it's ethical/moral reasons. They now feel like they got Trump elected and feel terrible about it. Of course they had no problem with this when their work got their political idols elected that was all fun and games and heroic.
It's infantile.
They had NO problem with this data collection and probably bought Zuckerberg's kool-aid ideology hook, line and sinker that they were making the world a better place with proper data analysis. Now they feel that this has become a weaponized technology and they want no part of it. If they REALLY cared about the abuses of data collection and misuse - they would be the ones to most know how to PREVENT and STOP it. They're leaving instead because they're disgusted with what they created.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sinij]

In Silicon Valley, being the most SJW-infested place on Eath, anything that touches Trump is toxic. When FB is now seen as being directly responsible for the election of Trump, these people found themselves in danger of "never work in this town" by association. They are probably better off putting prison time on their resume that admitting they worked on FB.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this really a move because of ethical reasons. I can't imagine that anyone working at Facebook is surprised by this.

And they were cool with it when it was the Obama campaign scraping the data.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

And it didn't even help Trump. It wasn't even used by the campaign.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[CaptainDork]

Both of you miss the point:

These employees are mid-career and they know full well that lifetime employment is not a thing.

As they grow their vocation, they may have opportunities to move into security or finance or places that just like to have ethical ranks.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Riceballsan]

I doubt it's so much friends, as fear of job security. Facebook just took a huge off the charts hit to trust. Some big names are making pretty bold actions of saying they are abandoning the platform. Honestly all it really would take is a few big names to endorse or back another service, and facebook could more or less lose 75%+ of it's audience, which would result in huge downsizing. At that point, moral concerns are not... you don't want a sinking ship to be your most recent job experience, jump ship now where you can claim you had fought against the problem.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[jellomizer]

If it were ethical, I would expect to have seen there resumes on the desk months ago. Right now these people are jumping ship.
That being said. For a lot of employees, it is actually difficult to know when you have crossed the line. Because as employees we get closer to that line slowly, and are rewarded for each we take to waking towards that line. If you are put push back a little bit the Boss normally has a reasonable explanation. Here is a golden age Simpons quote...

Bart: Uh, say, are you guys crooks?
Fat Tony: Bart, um, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?
Bart: No.
Fat Tony: Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them?
Bart: Uh uh.
Fat Tony: And, what if your family don't like bread? They like...cigarettes?
Bart: I guess that's okay.
Fat Tony: Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime, Bart?
Bart: Hell, no!
Fat Tony: Enjoy your gift.

However they had crossed the line, and they didn't realize it until it is too late. So the best they can do is switch departments and get some credibility so they can swap jobs in a few years, where this problem isn't as clear as April of 2018 but Early to Mid 2018 or further out to sometimes in 2018 or even at the end of the 20teens.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[adosch]

ABSOLUTELY correct. Some things look really 'good' on resumes for an amount of time, and some things are going to appear sour. How do you think some employees during the 90's Enron felt? "Oh, you worked... there? Um, we'll call you in a few weeks!" even if they worked in the damn mail room. I know I'd be doing the same exact move if I was in that situation, especially when there's going to be a stigma attached. This isn't the era your Grandpa or Dad worked in; there is no work and employment loyalty. People do not have 40-year employment stints anymore, except in state/federal government or small, cushy companies. And anyone who does software engineering or development, sys-admin, DBA, network engineer role on a serious and professional level knows that all your experience works against you --- and you get too expensive and at the end of the day, most places just won't pay that and take the 2nd or 3rd level person unless you have someone really gunning for your talent.

How is this any different than leaving your job on par-for-the-course reasons and taking a new job? Everyone leaves for a reason. Maybe you were tired of the grind, the work culture, the work itself, who the fuck knows. You never tell them (your employer that) because there are bridges to be preserved (if you're smart) but we all have our reasons, and all have an employment livelihood and that nice-to-us paycheck and living to preserve too.

No one is naive in all of this; people are going to say what they need to say to detatch themselves from this to get a new job or appear to be the stifled do-gooder who was opposed to it but had food to put on the table and squatter box rent to pay for in Silicon Valley. Anyone working at Facebook knows very well what the business model was/is and will be, even in light of all this fake congress BS with Zuckerberg: you

.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

When are you going to accept that YOU and YOUR toxic politics are responsible for Trump being elected? We weren't voting for Trump, we were voting to reject YOU.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

First, "SJW" could just as easily mean people on the more conservative side of things who call people "snowflakes" or are pushing for tougher immigration enforcement.

Second, you apparently do not live in the valley, or you'd know what you're saying isn't even remotely the truth. Yes Berkeley and San Francisco can do things that sound crazy when summed up in a headline, but when you start digging into some of the details, you see it is not some knee-jerk response, but they are actually considered decisions made by city leaders. Like banning/taxing of sugary drinks. Sugar is added to all kinds of things where it really has no business being. Hot dogs, for example, have sugar in them. The sugar is put there because food companies know it is a highly addictive substance that is very difficult to kick. This in turn creates a bunch of fat people who have expensive chronic health problems like heart disease. More people with expensive chronic conditions means all of us end up paying more in insurance premiums, because the current insurance system in the US is just a giant pyramid scheme, based on the assumption you'll have more people paying in than you're paying out.

Not to get all tinfoil hat, but food companies put sugar into almost everything because it is a highly addictive substance that is perfectly legal. They do this in order to sell more of their products, not to increase the nutritional value or anything like that.

Aside from that, the valley is one of the most prolific places for new business creation in the country, if not the world. For all some people love to harp about how over regulated California is, the facts show it is one of the most business friendly locations there is. For every company that leaves California, usually having nothing to do with taxes or regulation, there are probably a dozen new startups being created. Sure, most of them will fail, but there will be a dozen more to take their place, and one or two will likely succeed to some degree.

Another thing, is what exactly is wrong with a company deciding that in addition to making a profit, it also wants to contribute something back to society? This was actually a pretty common practice up until maybe the 80s give or take. There used to be "company towns" and taxes paid by companies went to support the local infrastructure in a symbiotic relationship. If a company wants to ship goods, it helps to have roads that are in good repair, and manufacturing goods is generally a lot easier with the help of an electrical grid and sewage system. It's also good to have an educated workforce to replace workers who retire, so supporting schools was important. Then, somewhere along the line, investors started getting greedy and created the myth that companies must do everything they possibly can to maximize the value for shareholders. Now our infrastructure is falling apart and our schools are chronically underfunded. So, I again ask you, what is wrong with a company deciding that they want to emphasize doing some good for the community?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

Not a damned one of them.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[JackieBrown]

Users will not be leaving facebook at any notable impact. You overestimate how much the average user cares about this stuff or even knows about it

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

When are you going to accept that YOU and YOUR toxic politics are responsible for Trump being elected? We weren't voting for Trump, we were voting to reject YOU.

Great. You elected a toxic 'tard that's doing irreparable harm to our nation to counter the vast, VAST minority of liberals that fall into the SJW category? You sir have been fooled by something that's well known to most people. It's called a vocal minority.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

In Silicon Valley, being the most SJW-infested place on Eath, anything that touches Trump is toxic. When FB is now seen as being directly responsible for the election of Trump, these people found themselves in danger of "never work in this town" by association. They are probably better off putting prison time on their resume that admitting they worked on FB.

False. Money drives SV. If you can code (or whatever), no one gives a crap you are hired. Nobody cares about your politics.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[farble1670]

And they were cool with it when it was the Obama campaign scraping the data.

Hi Troll. I see you've reached line item #347 on your list of "Liberal Triggers". This one is pretty weak though. I'd suggest you follow up with #544, which is "Hilary responsible for Benghazi". Good luck!

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Bodhammer]

Maybe they could add a new status called "Virtue Signalling"?

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

Tell that to James Damore.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[gnunick]

Yeah it's pretty disingenuous to suddenly pretend you have moral or ethical qualms. It has to have been clear to _anyone_ in the industry for years how fucked up Facebook is, and how amoral their behavior is. The only difference is now that the general public is getting concerned.

I've been rebuffing recruiters from Facebook (among other corporate assholes) for years. Acting ethically (and insisting on working only for companies which don't offend my moral sensibilities), isn't a new concept to me. It does greatly limit one's employment prospects, but on the other hand I've never had trouble finding a job.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Train0987]

Failed to denounce Nazis? Are you insane? Sorta like "When did you stop beating your wife farble?"

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[Pfhorrest]

Nobody (in management) cared about Damore's politics, they cared that a big ugly work-disrupting (i.e. money-costing) stink happened centered around him (that he didn't cause, those who distributed his memo outside its intended audience did), and fired him to try to make that stop (not that that worked).

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[DarkOx]

Right.. A lot of talented people don't want be in an organization that is going thru upheaval either. talented people want to work with a team that is performing, not storming.

I have lived thru corporate re-orgs before and even knowing my job was fairly secure the entire time its not a fun place to be.

1) You have coworkers that are not secure in their jobs; they are stressed and usually volatile and temperamental as a result. They will be quick to try and blame other possibly you for anything that might even be seen as negative.

2) Usually policy and procedure is in flux, the rules are constantly changing so you spend half your day trying to find who can even tell you how something is supposed to get done today, because its probably different than yesterday and its probably not because its better but because some middle manager feels he needs to be seen as doing something. You will have to find him specifically too, because non of your coworkers can tell you what the right way is as they do not themselves know.

3) You won't be getting anything you ask for no matter how useful it would be in your job. Want a $20 license for some software and permission from IT to install it - aint going to happen until the dust settles

4) Nobody will listen to you, you are part of that department which is in flux, even though you know you are not going anyone nobody else does. They won't "waste" their time on you in the mean time.

5) Much of your effort will go into the waste basket when the projects its supporting get abandon, radically rearchitected etc. So you can't take pride in any work you are doing.

Nope good people that have options would rather take an entirely new (to them) job in a place that is stable even if they are not at risk themselves. Living thru reorgs sucks.

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[sabri]

Facebook is here to stay..

- Myspace
- Yahoo
- Kodak
- Blockbuster
- Radioshack
- Weirdstuff Warehouse *snif*

Re:Is it really ethical or CYA

[butchersong]

First, "SJW" could just as easily mean people on the more conservative side of things who call people "snowflakes" or are pushing for tougher immigration enforcement.

Nope. Here is the definition of "Social Justice":
justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society. "individuality gives way to the struggle for social justice"

This is fundamentally liberal in the same way that marxism is fundamentally liberal. It isn't a huge deal... conservatives have their own annoying types but liberals get to own this particular group.

Re: Is it really ethical or CYA

[sycodon]

How do you add sugar to eggs, vegetables, beef, chicken, etc?

Who is making you buy shit in a box?

So quit if you don't like it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why make sure everyone knows? Oh yeah, virtue signalling FTW

Auschwitz guards

[sinij]

I am sure these FB employees were just following the orders, but why act only now? FB practices were well-known even outside of FB, this couldn't possibly be the first time they found out what is happening in the showers.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[freeze128]

Perhaps the engineers succumbed to pressure from their friends or family. Or maybe they were outright threatened by activists.

Re:Auschwitz guards

[sinij]

Considering HQ is in Silicon Valley, it is likely anti-Trump activists, and not newly found moral fortitude or rediscovered respect for privacy that motivates these engineers.

These people do realize...

[forkfail]

... that Facebook's entire business model is based on collecting, using, and selling data and metadata about people?

This sudden appearance of embracing moral behavior and ethics would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetically self serving and so hypocritically self righteous as to be nauseating.

It's very telling

[Train0987]

How Slashdot and others keep referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics scandal" as if Facebook's business model is only wrong when one side takes advantage of it.

Re:It's very telling

[Anonymous Coward]

How Slashdot and others keep referring to this as the "Cambridge Analytics scandal" as if Facebook's business model is only wrong when one side takes advantage of it.

Because the "wrong" side took advantage of it.

How did they not know this?

[damn_registrars]

The very reason why facebook existed from the beginning was to sell personal information. Why did they take a job with them if they were concerned about the ethics of doing that?

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Oswald McWeany]

Facebook had ZERO to do with the outcome of the election. Not one Trump voter in the country is now thinking to themselves "wow, Facebook tricked me into voting for Trump!". All of these BS excuses are nothing but delusions to avoid facing the reality of being rejected.

Not one person in the US thinks, wow that Pepsi commercial made me want to drink a Pepsi. Yet people do drink Pepsi, and Pepsi continues to advertise.

No one thinks they're being influenced by ads, or political propaganda. Everyone thinks they're above that, but here's a secret: you are influenced by ads. You're at a store all it has is Pepsi, Coke, or Smith's off-brand cola and you want a cola... odds are very high you pick a Pepsi or a Coke because you're familiar with them- or if you do buy a Smith's it is because it is cheaper. Brand familiarity has made Pepsi or Coke more appealing.

Same happens with these political BS stories. Trump is kinda like Pepsi- he's always throwing his name out there to get publicity. This facebook campaign was like an expensive ad campaign (and ignored by financing laws). No-one, not one person, thinks they were influenced by the fake stories... but they probably think that whilst drinking a Coke or a Pepsi.

Spare us the crocodile tears

[smooth wombat]

Anyone who worked at FB who suddenly has a change of heart is being disingenuous or trying to save their skin. Everyone at the company knew their sole job was to collect data on people and sell it.

They weren't offering anything to the users other than a place to spout off their nonsense. Since they weren't charging for the service (excluding advertisers), where did people think the money came from to run operations?

To claim they didn't know or now suffer umbrage at what has been going on is a joke at best. They were happy to collect their large salaries and stock bonuses, being made millionaires overnight, while the data was being collected. Don't now come to the public and proclaim their disgust. If they truly wanted to make a statement, the least they could do would be to give back their stock and leave the company completely.

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Train0987]

If presented with the same choice tomorrow between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do you think any Trump voters would be voting for Hillary? That's all I'm saying.

Re: Is this f-ing news?

[cyber-vandal]

"I don't have a Facebook account" is the new "I don't have a TV"

Re:"Hacking" the Election

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Yes, certainly some would. They have said so in public: in polls, response to interviews, and even "confessional" style op-eds.