Apple Is Developing a TV Show Based On Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series (deadline.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Deadline: In a competitive situation, Apple has nabbed a TV series adaptation of Foundation, the seminal Isaac Asimov science fiction novel trilogy. The project, from Skydance Television, has been put in development for straight-to-series consideration. Deadline revealed last June that Skydance had made a deal with the Asimov estate and that David S. Goyer and Josh Friedman were cracking the code on a sprawling series based on the books that informed Star Wars and many other sci-fi films and TV series. Goyer and Friedman will be executive producers and showrunners. Skydance's David Ellison, Dana Goldberg and Marcy Ross also will executive produce.

Originally published as a short story series in Astounding Magazine in 1942, Asimov's Foundation is the complex saga of humans scattered on planets throughout the galaxy, all living under the rule of the Galactic Empire. The protagonist is a psycho-historian who has an ability to read the future and foresees the empire's imminent collapse. He sets out to save the knowledge of mankind from being wiped out. Even the Game of Thrones' creative team would marvel at the number of empires that rise and fall in Foundation. Asimov's trilogy has been tried numerous times as a feature film at Fox, Warner Bros (with Bob Shaye and Michael Lynne, who greenlit The Lord of the Rings), and then at Sony with Independence Day director Roland Emmerich. Many top sci-fi writers have done scripts and found it daunting to constrict the sprawling saga to a feature film format. Most recently, HBO tried developing a series with Interstellar co-writer and Westworld exec producer Jonathan Nolan, but a script was never ordered.

Comments

Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[smooth wombat]

Many top sci-fi writers have done scripts and found it daunting to constrict the sprawling saga to a feature film format.

I finished reading the trilogy a week or so ago. There is no feasible way to take what was five hundred or so years of conflict and intrigue, and all the attendant characters, and make it into a two-hour movie. Nor even a three-hour movie.

Whatever would come out would be a shell of the story, the characters lifeless, and the plot unable to be followed by the majority of viewers. A tv show is the only way to approach Asimov's story since it allows for longer development of plot lines and encompass the time involved.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[Bradmont]

> Whatever would come out would be a shell of the story, the characters lifeless, and the plot unable to be followed by the majority of viewers. A tv show is the only way to approach Asimov's story since it allows for longer development of plot lines and encompass the time involved. Honestly, the characters were already lifeless. I have read and loved a lot of Asimov's writing, but characters were never his forte, and the characters in Foundation are downright flat.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[Sumus Semper Una]

Having read the novels some years ago, the only part of it that seems like it would make much sense as a movie was the part where The Mule messes up psychohistory. And without all the backstory it just wouldn't be as strong a story.

All I can say is if they do make this into a series I hope they take their time casting The Mule. He was actually one of my favorite characters of the books for some reason I've never been able to identify.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[nospam007]

" A tv show is the only way to approach Asimov's story"

Indeed. And every year will finish with the line:
"It doesn't matter, because I know, where the Second Foundation REALLY is!"

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[EndlessNameless]

This is why I liked the Altered Carbon series on Netflix better than most movie adaptations, in spite of some changes. The world and plot was slightly different than the novel, but it did the story justice in a way a 2-3 hour film could not.

A longer series could have avoided the heavy-handed exposition of the virtual/stack technology. And allow more time for the characters to shine, which is usually possible with the depth available from the novel.

With on-demand streaming becoming more popular, I hope to see more novels adapted in this fashion.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[lkcl]

I finished reading the trilogy a week or so ago. There is no feasible way to take what was five hundred or so years of conflict and intrigue, and all the attendant characters, and make it into a two-hour movie. Nor even a three-hour movie.

now that you've read those, can i also recommend the books that were written by authors under the direction of the Asimov Estate? Roger Allen McBride, and Greg Bear. "I, Caliban" and "Foundation and Chaos". also, can i recommend "The End of Eternity", you will see why when you read them. also, "The Robots of Dawn" (paying special attention to Giskard - http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/R... - who later featured indirectly in "Robots and Empire")

the primary reason is this: i see it again and again, stupid stupid politicians and even high-profile people like elon musk being total idiots, recommending that the "Three Laws be put into Law" or "Sent Into Space". anyone who TRULY UNDERSTANDS the Three Laws knows that they are DEEPLY FLAWED.

Asimov spent a LIFETIME EXPLAINING WHY.

it boils down to the fact that the robots were incapable - literally - of permitting humans to take risk. they had no imagination and no free will (a facet explored in the "I, Caliban" series with the "New Law" robots, which *did* have some modicum of free will).

Giskard was the first Robot with a Zeroth Law, "Thou shalt not allow HUMANITY through action or inaction to come to harm". He "imprinted" that - and his telepathic ability - onto R Daneel, who over the next thirty THOUSAND years became the hidden background character that (as described in "The End of Eternity") caused Earth to become mildy radioactive, forcing humans into space, where, unfortunately, due to the Robots, they populated 50 worlds.... and stopped.

The Foundation Series then jumps forward thirty thousand years, to cover an epic fight for human survival, where it is only AFTER Asimov died and other authors were permitted to "fill in the gaps" (Foundation and Chaos by Greg Bear) do we find out what was really going on.

So, when you say "would not fit into a four hour film".... I would be genuinely extremely surprised if the full depth and breadth of Asimov's work would be able to fit into anything less than a 200-series show of an hour each.

I am.. blown away that people believe that the three laws are a good idea. completely astounded.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[thinkwaitfast]

I liked the whole explanation and development of psycho history, as well as how a civilization collapses, having read a number of history books on the subject. I read once that Asimov based Foundation on the mathematician and historian Oswald Spengler's work Der Untergang des Abendlandes.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[aitikin]

All I can say is if they do make this into a series I hope they take their time casting The Mule. He was actually one of my favorite characters of the books for some reason I've never been able to identify.

Likely because he's the only character that actually has any...character to him? I mean, it's been about a decade since I read them, so grain of salt added, but I seem to recall none of the characters really having depth outside of The Mule. Everyone else felt like a cross between a red shirt and any one of the 12 dwarves in The Hobbit that weren't the king. I can't remember any of their names (I'm bad with names though) and couldn't tell you any characteristics of them other than the men in Foundation often smoke.

It'll be interesting to see how/if Apple will address that last point...but the lead writer attached worries me...I don't need to remind anyone about Batman V Superman, do I?

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[datavirtue]

If you have good content these days and you don't make it into a series you are seriously out of touch with consumers. I need to be able to binge-watch an in-depth literary masterpiece for free. There is no need to cut or twist anything...just produce a series.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[A10Mechanic]

Peter Jackson: Challenge Accepted.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[techno-vampire]

...the men in Foundation often smoke.

Back when the stories were written, that was true in Real Life, too. It's not an important plot point, and I doubt that anybody would care if it were left out.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[youngone]

I re-read the first book a few months ago and was struck by how dated it felt. Not so much in the tech way but more because all the characters smoked.
It just felt really weird.

Re: Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[Anonymous Coward]

excellent! one less trailer park white trash dumbass!

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[rickb928]

But never forget, one of the solutions to the inadequacies of the Three Laws is to limit the use of robots. Keep them out of situations where the Laws would cause more problems than solved, or don't design any that would be placed in those positions.

Which does solve a problem...

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[craXORjack]

You are arguing something that is completely irrelevant. It says right in the first sentence of the article that it will be a series not a movie.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[Darinbob]

It does bring up a problem I had with the books. The ability to predict the big picture of the future seemed off to me. The Mule definitely put that in prespective. However there are many Mules in history, or as people say it these days, Black Swans

For instance, if the new world had not had tobacco, it would have greatly changed the history of many countries. This accelerated the colonization of the new world. Similarly, a small change in negotiations for the Treaty of Versailles could have prevented WWII, which changed the entire world. And most big changes in history can be tracked back to earlier changes in history (did Martin Luther indirectly lead to Napoleon's campaigns, and this Napoleon indirectly lead to WWI, etc).

The difference with the Foundation series is that it suggests that in the long term all these small changes in history will smooth out and result in essentially the predicted result. But since those books were written there was the increased interest in chaos theory that took a very different view, that the small changes end up causing large and unpredictable long term changes.

So ya, in real life, tobacco was a huge plot point.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[AHuxley]

Radio shows could Foundation Series. Just find a TV person with skills. Dont turn it into a Star Trek: Discovery.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[outlander]

I think it'd have to be done as a fairly long series. The first book alone could be a season...it's not a simple story, and to capture the nuance would require a great deal of work.

I'd like to see it, though, if only to see how the creators visually represent the Asimov universe.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[myid]

They can make a movie on just the first part of the Foundation series. If that works out well, make another movie on the second part, etc.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[boundandgaggedwomen]

Many top sci-fi writers have done scripts and found it daunting to constrict the sprawling saga to a feature film format. I finished reading the trilogy a week or so ago. There is no feasible way to take what was five hundred or so years of conflict and intrigue, and all the attendant characters, and make it into a two-hour movie. Nor even a three-hour movie. Whatever would come out would be a shell of the story, the characters lifeless, and the plot unable to be followed by the majority of viewers. A tv show is the only way to approach Asimov's story since it allows for longer development of plot lines and encompass the time involved.

But it could be good as a TV series with a continuing arc.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[thinkwaitfast]

The history of civilizations all seem to follow the same arc of birth, growth, stagnation and collapse regardless of the reasons.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[thinkwaitfast]

Everyone used to smoke that much. Even in classrooms.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[crunchygranola]

He is terrific as Khruschev in The Death of Stalin which is an amazing movie. It is a black comedy, but it is also - ironically - one of the most accurate historical movies I have seen. Satire does not get in the way of truthfulness.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[crunchygranola]

...Similarly, a small change in negotiations for the Treaty of Versailles could have prevented WWII, which changed the entire world....

If someone had told Franz Ferdinand's driver the new route to take after leaving City Hall in Sarajevo, instead driving back down the same street where the rest of assassins were still hanging out, then WWI could have been avoided.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[dryeo]

More likely delayed a bit until another excuse showed itself. At the time, some of the great powers, in particular Germany, were just itching to go to war and just needed the excuse and with the treaties in effect at the time, any conflict was going to expand.

Re: Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[echnaton192]

There are two groups of psycho historians. The secret inner circle ensures that history does as itâ(TM)s told.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[youngone]

I can remember going to work with my Dad in about 1976 or so, and by 9:30 I couldn't even see all the way across his office because of all the smoke.
I didn't really think twice about it.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[Tough Love]

The ability to predict the big picture of the future seemed off to me.

Suspend your disbelief, you will enjoy the tale more.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[novakyu]

Not if you eliminate all other alien races that could compete with humans. Maybe you should read the book.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[war4peace]

Hence their decision to make a TV Series. You know, the kind that could have 100 episodes :)

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[war4peace]

Oh come on!
Hari Seldon is a very well defined character.
Great characters abound: Yugo Amaryl, Raych, Dors Venabili, even Demerzel/Daneel. You could even infer a couple emperors' character traits from the scenes they appear in.
That alone for the first book.

Admittedly, the interim period up until the Mule is a bit bleak, however Bel Riose is a good character worth expanding a bit, and moving on to the latter books, I liked the Golan Trevize/Janov Pelorat/Bliss trio, a LOT. They go through quite a few adventures together.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[rtb61]

How about shifting close to the current era, rather than latter on, you know with the vehicle for psychohistory game play being the internet. I could imagine the game looking something like controlling this https://www.youtube.com/watch?... by tapping the right hoop and the right time.

The current era on, would likely be more interesting, add in jumping forward an era with each season and new cast, with knew story line. How many seasons defines how far forward they go and whether or not they make it to collapse and reconstruction of the society.

The exact story is too tightly bound to it's era of production and their forecasts at that time. So getting into space and colonising other systems (avoiding world war three and triggering space colonisation), expanding further and then civil war and the following reconstruction. Use the current period to set the hook so to speak.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[war4peace]

I guess the question is: live long or live well?
Also explored by Asm'imov in his robots trilogy.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[AmiMoJo]

The robots where usually the best characters.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[AmiMoJo]

Altered Carbon was a pretty good adaptation, but they really toned it down a lot for TV and in doing so Kovacs was a much less interesting character. I really liked the contrast between his more human side and when he flips the Envoy switch in the books, but that was mostly lost on TV.

Still, overall it was quite good. Hopefully we get the sequels too.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[SuiteSisterMary]

Altered Carbon the Netflix Series was great as a standalone series, terrible as an adaptation. All of the major character changes were utterly unnecessary. The only one that made sense from a 'production' standpoint was rewriting The Hendrix into The Poe.

Re: Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[EndlessNameless]

I am sorry you've grown into a small, angry person. It is a pitiable existence, and I have some sympathy, but only you can make it better.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[EndlessNameless]

It's almost a reboot rather than a straight adaptation. It did keep me engaged throughout even though I read the books, once I realized it was a different story.

The change to Quellcrist and the Envoys will have effects down the line if they continue the series. Apparently Morgan was involved with the production, so I'd hope there's a good plan to address that in the future.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[barrygrommit]

Gads...I read this series a long time ago, in a place far, far away (oops...wait...getting confused here). Anyway, I seem to recall that the psychohistorian made accurate predictions for awhile, then realized some errors in his calculations. These errors indicated his predictions were going off course. But, he kept it a secret. Hmmm...

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[david_thornley]

The psychohistorians of the Second Foundation kept improving the plan, and kept things going. Then the Mule showed up, and screwed things up royally. The book Second Foundation was mostly about how they compensated for that.

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[Hognoxious]

Here here!

Re:Difficult to compress centuries to hours

[lkcl]

Wouldn't not allowing humans to take risk result in harm to the humans?

this exact argument is precisely the logic which destroys countless numbers of robots through the phenomenon known as "irreversible positronic brain-lock". it's a fundamental (and very sad) part of the stories that such highly intelligent beings are basically enslaved to the whims of humans, going from thinking, intelligent beings with a potential lifespan of tens of thousands of years, reduced to a smoking lifeless set of parts within seconds.

I've heard this lie before.

[Xenolith0]

I've heard this lie before!

On Slashdot, back in 2014. I'm beginning to suspect there will never be a Foundation movie/series.

http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/14/11/11/1811227/hbo-developing-asimovs-foundation-series-as-tv-show

Re:I've heard this lie before.

[RockDoctor]

It'll come out in the same year as the Ringworld film.

It's going to be a disaster

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone even remotely familiar with the Foundation trilogy knows that it's almost impossible to transpose to tv/film.

They're going to focus on sex and extreme violence (Westworld, anyone ?), like almost every series being produced these days on HBO or Netflix, and either butcher or completely disregard the core ideas and concepts of the novels.

Call me a pessimist, but I've seen to many great classic science-fiction novels turned to shit on screen in recent years not to be.

Re:It's going to be a disaster

[Plumpaquatsch]

Everyone even remotely familiar with the Foundation trilogy knows that it's almost impossible to transpose to tv/film.

They're going to focus on sex and extreme violence

Wait, what? Apple is going to focus on sex and extreme violence?

I came here fully expecting somebody to claim Apple would ruin Foundation by censoring it beyond recognition, but this?

the psycho-historian doesn't 'read the future'

[fredrated]

he develops the mathematics to predict the future based on large-scale statistical analysis.

Re:the psycho-historian doesn't 'read the future'

[JackieBrown]

I was a bit annoyed by that description as well

Re:the psycho-historian doesn't 'read the future'

[lkcl]

he develops the mathematics to predict the future based on large-scale statistical analysis.

that's not quite correct: the pioneer of psychohistory is R Giskard:
http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/R...

Asimov's stories are *really* complicated and absolutely amazing, whilst at the same time being drier than frozen CO2 and consequently at times an awesome pain in the ass to read.

Re:the psycho-historian doesn't 'read the future'

[westlake]

he develops the mathematics to predict the future based on large-scale statistical analysis.

Not merely to predict the future. But to give back-stage manipulators answerable to no one the power to shape the future to his ends. The problem remains, as always, "Who guards the guards?"

Re:the psycho-historian doesn't 'read the future'

[justthinkit]

I was annoyed by the comparison to Game of Thrones.

On audio, the Foundation series is 23 CDs.
On audio, the Game of Thrones series is 162 CDs.

Re:the psycho-historian doesn't 'read the future'

[jabuzz]

From memory Lord of the Rings is 54CD's and that is not including either the Hobbit or the Silmarillion.

Game of Thrones needs an editor to cut out hour and hours of irrelevant crap from and reduce it to something sensible in length.

Re:It's Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirates will be able to watch it on everything. If Apple doesn't want peoples' money, nobody can force Apple to take it.

Foundation Series on TV? Gah.

[TheZeitgeist]

Ambien is Foundation Series in a bottle. How does one express effects of a sleeping pill on the TV? An artistic challenge right there.

And its TV, which means they have to sex it up somehow. How do you do that with Foundation Series?

Its going to be nothing like the books, or its going to be unwatchable. Probably both.

Re: I dont get it

[Camembert]

I think that we can see the results of most of these series investments next year only.

Sci-Fi Resurgence?

[mentil]

Seems quite a few classic sci-fi novels are being picked up for streaming/TV series adaptations recently. Foundation, Consider Phlebas, Ringworld, The Three-Body Problem, Altered Carbon, The Expanse. And then there's Star Trek: Discovery and The Orville. Television sci-fi was dead just a few years ago, I wonder what happened all of the sudden? One could say 'Game of Thrones' led to a general resurgence of geek lit, but there's a suspicious dearth of recent fantasy novel adaptations; Shannara and Wheel of Time are the only ones I'm aware of. Maybe Black Mirror or rising interest in SpaceX are responsible.

Re:Sci-Fi Resurgence?

[TheZeitgeist]

I suspect there is something to having good analytics about what people - as in the vast majority of people living beyond pop-culture's limited horizon - actually watch. Nielsen ratings are as antiquated as NTSC, and everyone knew it but nobody had different datasets to compare. With Netflix et al, now they do.

And there is precedent for this in movies - which bank on books almost by default. Outside of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Pixar, every big franchise started with a book. And its been that way ever since Popcorn Movie era began with Jaws (not ironically originally a book).

There's been exceptions like Indiana Jones and The Matrix, but overwhelmingly Hollywood depends on books to not only get plots, but gauge popularity (and longevity) of a given book to ascertain market for making movies and TV based on it.

Re:Sci-Fi Resurgence?

[thinkwaitfast]

Good sci-fi does not rely on special effects. That's for soap operas in space

Re:Sci-Fi Resurgence?

[AmiMoJo]

The popularity of comic book adaptations helped. People were turned off by silly spandex costumes and magical powers, but then Marvel made a bunch of good movies and Netflix made a bunch of good TV shows.

Re:Sci-Fi Resurgence?

[angel'o'sphere]

One of the most interesting Fantasy novels I ever read (I don't read much fantasy, as I prefer SF) is the 'Riddlemaster Triology' by Patricia A. McKillip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
That would be a worthwhile movie project.

The latest fantasy I saw was "American Gods", but it looks like it got canceled after season one.

Re:Sci-Fi Resurgence?

[david_thornley]

On the other hand, some good special effects can make a good story much more striking.

Original Content

[craXORjack]

I love the way the streaming companies are getting into the business of creating content. Sure, some of it, okay a lot of it, sucks. But a lot of it is quite good. Another classic Sci-Fi novel I've been waiting to see made and maybe it will soon is Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama. Guess who has the rights and has been trying to get it made for 20 years... Morgan Freeman. I never thought of him as a Sci-Fi kind of guy but, yeah.

Re:Original Content

[RhettLivingston]

It seems to me that most is quite good, which makes sense because it is often much better funded than legacy network shows.

Re:It's Apple

[Joce640k]

This will only inconvenience their paying customers, not the pirates.

(as with all DRM)

Foundation Has Not Aged Well

[acvh]

I read Foundation and its sequels as a teen, and I remember thinking it was pretty cool. More recently, when I saw that people were writing additional Foundation-based novels, I went back to reread the originals. What a disappointment that was.

The writing is really bad; Assimov had some good ideas, but should have let a writer put them into story form. The concept of psychohistory and predicting future events seems quaint now, given what we have learned about chaos theory (or sensitive dependence on initial conditions), quantum mechanics, and more.

I couldn't get through the first one without a deep sigh for my lost youth; then I returned them all to the library.

Whoever decided to adapt this for TV will have to rewrite so much of it that they might as well just forget using Foundation as source material and come up with their own plot, characters and narrative.

Re:Foundation Has Not Aged Well

[thinkwaitfast]

The history of civilizations appear to follow the same life arc regardless of individuals or technology. I think that was one of the key elements of the book.

Re:Foundation Has Not Aged Well

[novakyu]

Um, if you think psychohistory seems quaint because of quantum mechanics, you don't know how to read:

(1) The book itself says psychohistory is meant to work only with large numbers (the way quantum mechanics makes very precise predictions with large ensembles of quantum mechanical systems).
(2) Asimov is a chemist by training. If there is one piece of modern science he understood, it's got to be quantum mechanics, or he would have been a pretty crappy chemist.

Maybe some people put Asimov on a pedestal that he can never live up to, but in your case, lack of reading comprehension is another big part.

Re:Foundation Has Not Aged Well

[jbmartin6]

he was a very prolific writer, but quality took a back seat at times. I recommend his collection of dirty limericks.

Merits of the Three Laws of Robotics

[steveha]

I am.. blown away that people believe that the three laws are a good idea. completely astounded.

I think you are overstating things a bit here.

The Three Laws are a convenient shorthand for saying "a comprehensive set of safeguards governing the operation of a robot." In the web comic Freefall people simply talk of "safeguards" rather than some arbitrary three laws.

The Three Laws have a huge place in the history of SF because they represent a sea change in how robots were presented. According to Asimov himself, in forwards to collections of his robot stories, before Asimov formulated the Three Laws robots were presented as dangerous things that generally went out of control to drive a story. He reasoned that people try to make things safe, and robots would be no different; people would incorporate safeguards, and his Three Laws were his take on a minimal set of safeguards.

Asimov then spent the rest of his career gleefully finding corner cases where the Three Laws were inadequate, and writing stories about what happens when those corner cases are hit. He was the first to promulgate the Three Laws idea and also the first to poke holes in them.

If someone really is arguing that the Three Laws are perfect and ready to implement, that shows they haven't researched the subject well and you are justified in being scornful of their shallow grasp of the subject. But if someone is talking informally and saying something like "robots should be required to have safeguards like the Three Laws" I have no problem with that, even if they phrase it less carefully and say something like "the Three Laws should be mandatory."

Also, when Asimov first wrote these stories, he overlooked two things that I consider hugely important. First of all, griefers. In his stories, any human could give an order to a robot and the robot would obey as long as no human was harmed. So a griefer could order an expensive robot to go smash a bunch of parked cars, ruining the cars and the robot, and (Asimov used this in his stories) the griefer could tell the robot "if you reveal my identity, I will come to harm" and it would be impossible for the robot to name the griefer. (It would also be possible to order "smash all these cars, and then forget ever having seen or talked to me.") The other thing is that Asimov imagined that it would be extremely difficult to make robot brains that did not include the Three Laws, which seems quaintly naive to me. If there is still a North Korea when robot brains are invented, there will be a secret project to make robots capable of serving as loyal soldiers, which means robots that obey Dear Leader's orders without question (no other safeguards included). As Jerry Pournelle used to say: "What man has done, man may aspire to do."[1] The existence of robot brains will be proof that a new robot brain design is possible.

P.S. Another classic of the robot genre is "With Folded Hands". Robots have the prime directive: to serve, and obey, and guard men[1] from harm. The robots ultimately enslave all of humanity in a smothering protective embrace: anything a human might want to do, like rock climbing, could be forbidden as too risky. Any human who resists this benevolent enslavement is lobotomized so that he/she will stop resisting and just enjoy life. I think in later stories the robots supervised even sex, on the theory that you could have a heart attack or something from the exertion, so the robots only allowed sex by young people, and only so there would be another generation of humans to serve.

Finally, for a modern take on artificial intelligence with inadequate safeguards, read the Torchship trilogy by Karl Gallagher. In these books, about a dozen whole planets (including Earth) have no living humans anymore because AI-controlled machines killed them all. In the stories, the historical events where the AIs went berserk are referred to as "The Betrayal".

The first book in the To

Just turn on the news

[RhettLivingston]

We're living the story, right? Or does everyone really believe that nobody is using big data to figure out exactly where to give little pushes in our society to create huge real-world changes in the directions societies are taking? Do people believe the manipulations throughout social media currently surfacing were done without the benefit of new data and new maths?

Re:Maybe Trump will watch it involuntarily

[Pseudonym]

Has it occurred to you that Trump may be The Mule?

Depict the personalities clearly

[myid]

The book has cardboard characters, but the movie doesn't have to. The movie should vividly show the different personalities.

Hari Seldon - while his health was failing, warned of Trantor's fall, manipulated Trantor's government into setting up the First Foundation, and secretly set up the Second Foundation.

The Committee of Public Safety - who foolishly thought that Seldon's warnings were treasonous.

Salvor Hardin - the first Foundation Mayor, whose style of governing is "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!".

The conniving Prince Regent Wienis, who underestimated Hardin.

King Lepold I - Wienis' selfish and weak nephew.

Those are just a few characters in the beginning, when the book's characters were the most "cardboard". With good acting and direction, the movie can show their ways of thinking and acting, and also show their reactions to what happened.

In the TV show "Columbo", it was fun to watch Columbo solve the crime, and to watch the bad guys gradually realize that they would be arrested. In the Foundation movie, it would be fun to watch events follow Seldon's plan (until the Mule came along), and to watch the expressions of bad guys when they gradually realize that their plans will fail.

Re:Character Development

[thinkwaitfast]

Science fiction is not really about the characters, but about how they and culture are affected by technology.

Hmmm...

[Ferretman]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this. I personally think it's really not nearly as good as many seem to think, but it could be worked into something pretty good. A TV series is a better venue than a movie for sure, since it can be tweaked over time much more easily.

I do wish'em luck, to be sure.

Ferret

Foundation may just be...

[EzInKy]

...too cerebral for T.V., I doubt it will fly.

Re:It's Apple

[rtb61]

Track down the radio play, that was in a BBC walled garden, not so much any more and pretty darn good radio play.

Hmm, I wonder if high performing aspergers with savant qualities can play the second foundation psychohistory game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... The right idea, at the right time, generating a mass action change and hardly anyone the wiser.

Re:It's Apple

[mjwx]

Track down the radio play, that was in a BBC walled garden, not so much any more and pretty darn good radio play.

If you had of just wrote "I've got no idea about the BBC" it would have been faster.

The BBC are under obligation to release their content. In fact they try to release it as far and as wide as possible (international sales are revenue for a cash strapped BBC). The reason you cant find a lot of older BBC material is that they used to re-use tape and other storage resources to save money so the recordings simply don't exist any more. This is why it's hard to find old BBC radio plays and early BBC TV series, because they're reliant on having a member of the public possessing a recording.

I look forward to this

[Sqreater]

Even though I'm getting pretty old, it will be interesting to see how they handle a story that takes place so much in the mind. Foundation was one of my very favorite scifi stories growing up. Come to think of it, they will probably have to update the tone for our gender-equal times. Actually, they will make the lead characters women,and the story multicultural and alien friendly. I predict a Political Correctness lecture will result and so an abject failure.

Re:I look forward to this

[tsstahl]

Even though I'm getting pretty old, it will be interesting to see how they handle a story that takes place so much in the mind.

Child's play. No really. The age old instrument is to tell the story through the eyes of an innocent. In this manner you can narrate the cerebral stage. The trick is to talk to the audience like a toddler, but make them think they are being reasoned with by an idiot.

Foundation was one of my very favorite scifi stories growing up. Come to think of it, they will probably have to update the tone for our gender-equal times. Actually, they will make the lead characters women,and the story multicultural and alien friendly. I predict a Political Correctness lecture will result and so an abject failure.

I got nuttin. Except a suspicion you nailed it.

Re:I look forward to this

[david_thornley]

One of the points of the series is that the Galaxy is pretty much one more or less uniform human culture. Significant numbers of aliens would destroy the plot. As far as the sex of the characters goes, Asimov wrote in the world he saw around him (much like the smoking), not meaning any sort of prediction. Changing some of them to female would remove nothing from the story. Science fiction of the period frequently reflected the current society but wasn't often embedded in it.

Re:I look forward to this

[Sqreater]

I have to disagree. The story is basically male and there is a strong element of breeding certain males to certain females to bring about a higher level of abilities. If you change males to females, you lose that thread and actually make it ridiculous.

Re:I look forward to this

[Sqreater]

Because the instinct to defend and protect is male. The will-to-kill is male. The creative aggression of our species is male. If you don't believe that, read more history, more tech history, more political history, watch more news. Females CAN pull triggers. Males WANT to pull triggers. The spirit and power of the thing is lost when you put females in male positions in such things. But it will be done. That is the zeitgeist. Then they will wonder why it didn't work so well, like Mad Max: Fury Road. I have no doubt a male in the lead there would have driven the box office higher. Look to the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. They could have destroyed that too by feminizing it, but they didn't. Make Harry Potter a girl? Wouldn't work. We know the massive success that had with both boys AND girls. Can you do the politically correct thing and "same-size" males and females? Sure, but you pay a price for the lie, and you suffer at the box office for it. The male on male conflict dynamic would be lost. Yes, you CAN put females in male positions, but should you? No.

Re:I look forward to this

[david_thornley]

I am completely not remembering arranged matings in the Foundation series. They've occurred in other stories, like Dune. I don't even remember "a higher level of abilities" taking place in the trilogy.

It would be more difficult to change sexes in Dune, although I don't remember any particular reason Mentats were male.

Re:I look forward to this

[david_thornley]

If you think "the instinct to defend and protect" is male, you've never threatened a baby in the presence of the mother. Women can be fiercely protective, and they can extend that to large groups. The will-to-kill isn't what it's cracked up to be: see David Grossman's "On Killing". Men typically want to use guns for posturing, not killing.

Hari Seldon didn't use a gun. Seldon used scientific advances in an attempt to protect civilization, which is a reasonable thing for a woman to do. The Mule was a freak, and it doesn't really matter what sex. There are other non-sex-specific roles. The mayor in the second half of Foundation and Empire could have been anyone, per Asimov's description. There are characters I wouldn't change the sex of, like Salvor Hardin, Hober Mallow, or Arkady whats-her-last-name.

I don't know what "spirit and power" you mean. I tried to watch Fury Road, and gave up because it was making no sense and I wasn't following it. Charlize Theron played a character no worse than the norm. There were some very nice visuals in the part of the movie I saw. I don't know how well Helen Potter would have sold. There's a lot of urban fantasy written with female protagonists, and some of it is of high quality. (As we know, 90% of it is crap, per Sturgeon.) Seanan McGuire has had two such series nominated for the Hugo award. (As I expected, Miles Vorkosigan won the first time, and I think the Five Gods will take home another one of those wondrous trophies that just stay what they are without effort.)

Foundation informed Star Wars?

[najajomo]

"Foundation, the seminal Isaac Asimov science fiction novel trilogy.. that informed Star Wars"

Foundation never informed Star Wars, more likely Buck Rodgers and Saturday morning cinema kiddie serials informed Star Wars. Lets hope they don't ruin it like the Will Smith I, Robot movie. The Expanse and Dark Matter could be said to owe a lot to the works of Asimov and other writers of the period.

Re:Foundation informed Star Wars?

[david_thornley]

The I, Robot movie was a clear case of the Three Laws going wrong, and therefore in line with the stories in the book. It did remind me a lot of Williamson's Humanoids, though.

Re:It's Apple

[Hognoxious]

they're reliant on having a member of the public possessing a recording.

Which of course is unlikely, since recording equipment was rare and expensive back then.

Re:Maybe Trump will watch it involuntarily

[negRo_slim]

Has it occurred to you and all others that /. has fucking OD'd on soy and/or fake news and/or Russiabots? This whole website has turned to reddit/ars level trash.
Why is that?
Been here for a long time, tho not as long as others, why did this happen to a place that was one a bastion of GNAA? It's all so sad....

BBC Radio Series

[FlaSheridn]

Been done, surprisingly well, and almost completely unlike ST:D: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Here's my review:

This is a remarkably faithful adaptation of the Foundation Trilogy, all things considered. I was taken aback by the upper-class English accents of most of the characters, which I suppose was unfair of me. This is, after all, the far future, and Dr Asimov's Brooklyn accent was less prominent in his writing than in his speech. Still, Salvor Hardin doesn't quite fit; and Dinsdale Landen, since he was quite suitable as Rupert Purvis in Tom Stoppard's _The Dog It Was That Died_, could hardly fit the young General Bel Riose.

The ending, of course, can only be done properly in writing, and doesn't work well here. More generally, the last four episodes, written by Mike Stott, are weaker than the first four, adapted by Patrick Tull. And, as the reviewers on the British Amazon have noted, the sound quality and effect are not up to modern standards. But if you can rise above the minor difficulties, the excellence of the story shines through.

Re:It's Apple

[KingBenny]

pirates don't cost the industry jack fucking shit, au contraire, watson, they cost the industry a LOT of lawyer and troll-money, which definitely doesnt way up to the few who would actually pay for what they download (if they could) thats been proven time and time again
i should have replied to the parent here woops ... i was thinking actually more like "leave it up to apple to appeal to the common denominator and turn steve jobs into a genius of more than simply sales and marketing" ... asimov ... really ... what about voght and vance ?)