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Lawmakers Call FBI's 'Going Dark' Narrative 'Highly Questionable' After Motherboard Shows Cops Can Easily Hack iPhones (vice.com)

Joseph Cox, reporting for Motherboard: This week, Motherboard showed that law enforcement agencies across the country, including a part of the State Department, have bought GrayKey, a relatively cheap technology that can unlock fully up-to-date iPhones. That revelation, cryptographers and technologists said, undermined the FBI's renewed push for backdoors in consumer encryption products. Citing Motherboard's work, on Friday US lawmakers sent a letter to FBI Director Christopher Wray, doubting the FBI's narrative around 'going dark', where law enforcement officials say they are increasingly unable to obtain evidence related to crimes due to encryption. Politico was first to report the letter. "According to your testimony and public statements, the FBI encountered 7,800 devices last year that it could not access due to encryption," the letter, signed by 5 Democrat and 5 Republican n House lawmakers, reads. "However, in light of the availability of unlocking tools developed by third-parties and the OIG report's findings that the Bureau was uninterested in seeking available third-party options, these statistics appear highly questionable," it adds, referring to a recent report from the Justice Department's Office of the Inspector General. That report found the FBI barely explored its technical options for accessing the San Bernardino iPhone before trying to compel Apple to unlock the device. The lawmaker's letter points to Motherboard's report that the State Department spent around $15,000 on a GrayKey.

39 of 69 comments (clear)

  1. Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple is too valuable of a brand, and if people realize Apple, FBI, NSA etc. are all up in your "private" shit, then people would stop buying.

    It's a simple case of "let's do and say we couldn't". There is no such thing as secure devices in the U.S., because that's the way government needs it to be, and neither Apple nor Google are above the law.

    1. Re: Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      then people would stop buying

      The Feds could give two fucks about that; what matters to them is that dumb criminals would stop using their phones foolishly.

    2. Re: Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All the hoo ha about backdoors does seem pretty suspicious. It's pretty trivial to write an app that stores things or communicates with unbreakable encryption and is pretty much immune to legislation. Surely smart criminals must do this already. So a backdoor would only be useful for catching dumb ones. Perhaps insisting that a backdoor is needed but does not exist is useful for catching dumb criminals AND not-so-smart ones.

    3. Re:Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Apple is too valuable of a brand, and if people realize Apple, FBI, NSA etc. are all up in your "private" shit, then people would stop buying.

      It's a simple case of "let's do and say we couldn't". There is no such thing as secure devices in the U.S., because that's the way government needs it to be, and neither Apple nor Google are above the law.

      They also may have been happy to instill false confidence, so some may be less careful as to what they do on their phone.

    4. Re: Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Surely smart criminals must do this already.

      Met a lot of them, have you? ;)

    5. Re: Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by fafalone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      99% of criminals fall into the 'dumb ones' category. They will use whatever is default and even if their interest in something more secure was piqued, they couldn't get the other dumb criminals they talk to about their crimes to go along with it. So whether encryption is unbreakable by default actually does have huge significance to law enforcement. It still should be since that's by far outweighed by the privacy benefit to non-criminals, but as out of touch /. is with normal people, it pales in comparison to how far removed from typical criminals it is, and there seems to be this mistaken belief that the percentage of criminals that will "just" set up a secure alternative to bad defaults is in some way significant.

    6. Re: Sales-talk and keeping up appearances by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, the dumb criminals typically leave myriad other clues that can be followed just as easily. The ones that you're going to have a hard time catching are the smart ones, and they're smart enough to use something more secure than the default. They're also the ones whose schemes are likely to cause the most damage.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  2. Is Apple coooperating with the authorities? by Joe+Branya · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article says Greylock can access "fully up-to-date IPhones".

    Can Greylock access Iphones that don't allow automatic updating? If Greylock can't, then Apple has given out an update that allows outsiders to access your IPhone. So much for the Apple claim to be a privacy good-guy. Even more interesting is the possibility that Apple has pushed an OS update to phones which have automatic update turned off, something we usually associate with Microsoft.

    Is there anyone out there capable of looking at the stream of bits coming-and-going and reading the flash memory that holds the updated code? And if Apple can push an update, what does that mean for the validity of the phone log when the IPhone shows up as a court exhibit? And do IPhones in Europe and China get the same treatment?

    1. Re: Is Apple coooperating with the authorities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, all this means is that thereâ(TM)s a security vulnerability in iOS that the greykey guys are aware of, but Apple is not.

    2. Re:Is Apple coooperating with the authorities? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Would the sentence "can access EVEN fully up-to-date iPhones" have made better sense? The point is there's been no patch released to stop GreyLock from working.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  3. Could be about stronger passwords by jonwil · · Score: 1

    There are suggestions that these hacking devices don't break the encryption, they just defeat the anti-brute-force tricks and allow the devices to be brute forced.

    If the devices don't actually defeat the encryption then a backdoor is the only way the FBI and other agencies can get into phones with passwords too strong to brute force.

  4. It's not easy being the good guys by rmdingler · · Score: 1, Insightful

    There is an inferred belief set inside law enforcement that in order to accomplish the greater good, it is perfectly acceptable to occasionally stoop to the level of the dirty criminals. Hollywood and the entertainment industry have consistently reinforced this logical fallacy with hundreds (thousands?) of stories with protagonist rogue cops who do what needs to be done to catch the bad guy.

    The problem is, once you stoop to a despicable act, it is so much easier to stoop the next time. (K. Hepburn)

    The freedoms we enjoy are quite precious, and the sacrifices made to preserve them do not all occur on the field of battle... sometimes the good guys have to carry the enormous burden of a moral compass during the pursuit of the most immoral.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re: It's not easy being the good guys by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      It's not easy being the good guys

      Fortunately for the FBI, "being the good guys" has never been their mission statement.

    2. Re:It's not easy being the good guys by Sebby · · Score: 1

      The freedoms we enjoy are quite precious, and the sacrifices made to preserve them do not all occur on the field of battle... sometimes the good guys have to carry the enormous burden of a moral compass during the pursuit of the most immoral.

      You mean like the FBI knowingly hosting a child porn site?

      --

      AC comments get piped to /dev/null
    3. Re:It's not easy being the good guys by NormalVisual · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The freedoms we enjoy are quite precious, and the sacrifices made to preserve them do not all occur on the field of battle

      Which also means that we as a society have to deal with the fallout from such rights. For instance, the fact that it's legal to buy and sell alcohol means that people WILL die as a result of drunk driving, regardless of the laws against that particular act. You can't have one without the other, and if you truly stand for freedom, you accept that. We can take other steps to prevent those deaths, but they'll always be an inherent cost of preserving that right.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    4. Re:It's not easy being the good guys by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The freedoms we enjoy are quite precious, and the sacrifices made to preserve them do not all occur on the field of battle... sometimes the good guys have to carry the enormous burden of a moral compass during the pursuit of the most immoral.
      Must be cool to live in a country where the law enforcement can search your device without warrant and could put any evidence it needs onto it or can claim it found it on the device.
      That is indeed a precious freedom for a random police yahoo ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:It's not easy being the good guys by fafalone · · Score: 1

      With alcohol, if you go back to Prohibition, it teaches that trying to take the right away by force of law will actually result in more death than just letting people have the right. This is a lesson we've sadly forgotten, as both right and left cheer for longer sentences, torturing pain patients and keeping them bedridden- sometimes ending in suicide, and the massive spike in overdose deaths from black market substitutes all so that we could "do something" about opiates being overprescribed in a medical setting. People have forgotten that not only does having a right require paying a price, but taking rights away can have an even steeper price.

    6. Re: It's not easy being the good guys by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Almost caught you, did they?

    7. Re:It's not easy being the good guys by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I certainly opiate rx's should be limited, however I also think addicts or long term users should have options to declare themselves as such and get what they need without black markets.

      I wish the pro life people would figure this out. You can't ban social problems, you can only manage the causes. If pregnancy wasn't a $10k condition that caused loss of life, evictions, long term economic uncertainty; abortions would decrease naturally.

  5. Re: So, the FBI is lying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's not abuse. You just get a Democrat to fund a disgraced foreign spy to write some fiction, then hand that to an Obama appointee judge who will rubber stamp literally anything that you want to do.

    It's called shitting on society, law, and the Constitution, which is the Democratic strategy to retaking the country.

  6. Re:Graykey works for now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As soon as a case where the phone was unlocked with this 'tool' comes to court, the defence will challenge the evidence and independant 3rd parties will examine the device. It does not take a genius to realise that the 'magic sauce' that makes this work will soon become public.
    If Apple does not already know about this and not already patched it then they are slipping and slipping badly.

    The game of cat and mouse is about to go to another round.

  7. Law enforcement officers lying? Never?! by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    You sure? Of course they never lie. How could you possibly believe such a thing...

    1. Re:Law enforcement officers lying? Never?! by ir0nHat · · Score: 1

      The FBI does not "Lie", they have a "Lack of Candor". Everyone one else not in the FBI club are the ones lying during federal investigation. This is Do as I say, not as I do. Or to be clearer "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal"

  8. Quoting Monty Python... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    However, in light of the availability of unlocking tools developed by third-parties and the OIG report's findings that the Bureau was uninterested in seeking available third-party options, these statistics appear highly questionable"

    FBI: "I wish to plead incompetence."

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  9. FBI IS the bad guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It is their mission statement. They just seem to ignore it now.

    McCabe leaked classified information to WaPo (his lawyer says he was authorized to do so, but no one else is claiming that). He then lied 5 times at least when questioned by the FBI if he leaked that information or authorized the leak. He now claims he is the good guy and Trump is the bad guy.

    Comey used Russian propaganda to sign off for a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign. He failed to verify the information and lied to the FISA judge claiming it was verified. Lied under oath to get a wire tap on a presidential campaign and then lied about it afterwards. Remember Watergate was just a single office break in, not a year long wiretap operation based on lies.

    Stroke and Page, collaborated with McCabe to tank the Hillary classified information investigation from the start to give her a better chance of winning. Obstruction of justice, and I'm not sure what falsely running an investigation is called.

    Stroke had an "insurance policy" in case Trump won the election. DOJ STILL won't hand over the 2 pages that started this entire mess, Congress is about to impeach Roseinstein and Wrey because they failed to meet the subpoena on those 2 pages.

    Comey illegally leaked classified information to be published in the NYT with the intent of getting a Special Council (Muller's investigation) appointed based on lies.

    Muller raided Trump's personal lawyer, who never worked on the campaign or administration breaking client attorney privilege. Cohen was working with Muller and giving everything that had been requested. Muller had made it clear that working with Trump is now a crime that he will punish.

    FBI = Complete Shit
    DOJ = Complete Shit

    Not a single thing above had resulted in a singe charge being handed out. Flynn, who didn't lie according to Congressional over-site of Muller, has been charged with lying under oath. Comey, Stroke, Page, McCabe have all lied multiple times, provably, and not one of them has been charged.

    1 Justice system for Trump and supporters (You are a criminal no matter what you did or didn't do)
    1 Justice system for anti-Trump (You are not a criminal no matter what you did or didn't do)

  10. Re:So, the FBI is lying? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'd call them more incompetent than anything else. They received tips about the Florida school shooter including his name and what he was going to do and they did nothing. Typical big government.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  11. Independent verification Greykey works? by david.emery · · Score: 2

    Anyone seen 'proof' this GrayKey thing actually works?

  12. PRINCIPLE by markdavis · · Score: 2

    >"That revelation, cryptographers and technologists said, undermined the FBI's renewed push for backdoors in consumer encryption products."

    To me, it is completely irrelevant whether they can or can't unlock consumer devices. The PRINCIPLE remains the same- the government does not and should not have a "right" to ruin security in the name of "safety". I don't care how inconvenient it this makes it for them to do their job. The statements about not necessarily needing it due to hacking products shouldn't distract from the real thing at stake here- personal privacy and freedom.

    There simply is no way to have have it both ways. When you have "back doors" in encryption, there will be no security/privacy anymore.

  13. Re:So, the FBI is lying? by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd call them more incompetent than anything else. They received tips about the Florida school shooter including his name and what he was going to do and they did nothing. Typical big government.

    After the "Fast & Furious" fiasco where the ATF were attempting to illegally allow straw-purchasers from Mexican drug cartels to buy and smuggle US weapons into Mexico to "give ammo" to the gun-control lobby, it would not surprise me at all to learn of covert 'stand-down' orders regarding the Parkland shooter (especially considering the bizarre behavior/non-action of LEOs at the scene on top of a plethora of ignored warnings beforehand), and authorities at high levels in government responsible for deliberately and intentionally allowing those children to die to advance the gun-control agenda.

    It's strange, because gun-related homicides over the last 25 years are down over 50% and gun violence victimization is down over 75%. School shootings are also way down, with the '90s being the worst.

    The US government is rapidly coming to more-resemble a hostile occupying force than a peaceful domestic government in place by the will of the people it governs.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  14. Re: So, the FBI is lying? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Stop thinking, Citizen!

  15. One way to break passcodes by Ronin+Developer · · Score: 1

    A technique that has been used for years to break keyboard-based locks is to dust the keyboard and see where on the keyboard or screen where the user has been touching. In the case of iPhones, unless the user wipes their screen off after every use, it's likely their touches will still be present on the screen.

    If you know the passcode is 4 or 6 digits and have a good idea what the numbers are, it makes it a bit easier to brute force, Will they get in under the max count? Maybe.

    To combat this technique, secure facilities that utilize touch pads randomly reassign the where on the pad each number resides (yes, there is an indicator and not left for the user to randomly guess). It makes users have to think and much harder for those seeking to penetrate the system.

    I once saw such a keyboard on Android, Apple does do it for some reason...probably for ease of use.

    1. Re: One way to break passcodes by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      In the movies, the keypads are numerical and single purpose. You're talking about a touch screen device. Now with fingerprint and face unlocks. Not saying you can't still find a picture unlock smudge or something, but it's not the same as the convenient movie cliché.

  16. Re: Tiny Handcocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That particular technological terror has a logistics chain that stretches halfway to Mars. That is where privately owned firearms will come into play.

    Read a book on asymmetrical warfare sometime. It will change your mind.

  17. Re:So, the FBI is lying? by fafalone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A conspiracy theory involving dozens of police from several different agencies all knowingly and without knowledge leaking allowing someone to go on a shooting rampage in a highschool is modded +4 Interesting and Insightful? You have got to be kidding me. This is the kind of bullshit they put on InfoWars.
    And another big fat [citation needed] on Fast & Furious being motivated by helping gun control (a program, by the way, started under George W. Bush in 2006).
    That this isn't modded down or at least Funny makes me more disappointed in the direction the comments section here is heading more than anything else, and there's heavy competition, even though I do agree that violence is way down and our government is becoming a hostile occupying force, not to mention fully support the 2nd.

  18. good old days by bigtreeman · · Score: 1

    gone are the good old days when companies were controlled by the 'right ' people
    and were always compliant with the authorities.

    --
    Go well
  19. Re: So, the FBI is lying? by Brockmire · · Score: 2

    You listen to NRA propaganda? Jesus Christ. Guns going to Mexico is going to have meaningful change in US? Fuck, that's just stupid. That's just a pile on opportunity because the NRA are cocksuckers. The guns were supposed to be tracked. They weren't. They are fucking incompetent. News at 11. Same as police and teaching professions, protecting fuck ups and covering it up instead of shit canning them just makes things 100X worse than the original fuck up.

  20. Re: So, the FBI is lying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you are so against private firearm ownership and are an American, why would you remain in the one nation on the planet known for private firearm ownership, and instead try to overcome 200+ years of national history and tradition, not to mention the objections of the majority of people to abolishing the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment?

    It would be much more effective to simply go live in one of the plethora of nations that already ban or heavily-restrict firearms. Just saying, as I'm not American nor live there. I have no dog in this fight. It just seems illogical. It's like demanding America switch their culture and language to match those of the Japanese instead of simply immigrating to Japan to satisfy your desire to live in Japanese culture and speak Japanese.

  21. Re: Tiny Handcocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And AR15s can't shoot an M1 tank or so the argument goes.
    Yet after 17 years we can't defeat men in pyjamas and turbans with ak47s and we lost to men in black pyjamas in the jungle 50 years ago.

    Sure they can nuke us , but the they'll be lord over radioactive glass not a subservient population

  22. Economical with the truth by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    A British Civil servant's contribution in bringing the phrase to public awareness

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...