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Belgium Declares Video Game Loot Boxes Gambling and Therefore Illegal (arstechnica.com)
The Belgian Gaming Commission has reviewed several big video games and found that randomized loot boxes in at least three of the titles count as "games of chance," and publishers could therefore be subject to fines and prison sentences under the country's gaming legislation. Ars Technica reports: A statement by Belgian Minister of Justice Koen Geens (machine translation) identifies loot boxes in Overwatch, FIFA 18, and Counter Strike: Global Offensive as meeting the criteria for that "game of chance" definition: i.e., "there is a game element [where] a bet can lead to profit or loss and chance has a role in the game." The Commission also looked at Star Wars: Battlefront II and determined that the recent changes EA made to the game means it "no longer technically forms a game of chance." Beyond that simple definition, the Gaming Commission expressed concern over games that draw in players with an "emotional profit forecast" of randomized goods, where players "buy an advantage with real money without knowing what benefit it would be." The fact that these games don't disclose the odds of receiving specific in-game items is also worrisome, the Commission said. The three games noted above must remove their loot boxes or be in criminal violation of the country's gaming legislation, Geens writes. That law carries penalties of up to 800,000EU (~$973,680) and five years in prison, which can be doubled if "minors are involved." But Geens says he wants to start a "dialogue" with loot box providers to "see who should take responsibility where."
absolutely agree, if you can't know what you're getting, it's a gamble. This is the stupidest trend in gaming that needs to end.
The Belgian government is actually elected, and in fact, enjoys a much better electoral system than say the United States where your authoritarian tyrant had fewer votes than his opponents, and his petty sycophants were often elected in rigged districts that make the entire process suspect, even aside from their own blandishments that millions of "illegal" voters exist which would make their own election suspect.
Of course, Trump and his ilk are quite dedicated to controlling peoples lives as well, notice how they want to implement systems to bar those they don't like from the country, control people's daily lives, and as I learned from my Congressman's recent video town hall, they want to violently compel people to go along with their agenda. Even to the point of threatening representatives from other districts.
I demand compensation. They can start by giving me all the loot, and maybe a few free chicken dinners.
Gambling has long been a protected area due to the social damage it causes beyond the immediate impact to the individual. Loot boxes are gambling without a doubt. They're fine as a game mechanic, so long as you never have to exchange real money to obtain them.
The sad thing is that companies will just move the point of payment. Buying "lives" or "health potions" or something like that, which lets you grind for currency to buy loot boxes and grinding without buying these things will be made impossible.
We had a similar problem here in the states, hundreds of millions of dead bodies in the streets because they couldn't afford health insurance (not to mention actual health care)... we got Obamacare as a fix, and now the streets only have living homeless people in them.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
My son buys my daughter loot boxes for her birthday and she opens them in hopes of getting cosmetic enhancements in Overwatch.
I would not be overly upset if the thing she wanted could be outright purchased. I'd even bless it as knowing that she would get what she paid for. But last year, she got loot boxes and every one of them had something she already had. The result being that the money was entirely wasted.
My son and daughter stood by the computer while he prayed his baby sister would get what she'd wanted for so long. And while she was so happy he bought her the loot boxes, he was so disappointed that he wasted his allowance.
Loot boxes are shit. If you want to sell loot boxes, you shouldn't be able to put anything in them you can't outright buy in a store as well.
P.S. - I stopped spending an average of $800 a year on games when these shenanigans came in.
everything here is a voluntary interaction and anybody who doesn't like it can stop playing.
If that were true, we wouldn't need to regulate gambling at all.
gambling isn't illegal, running a gambling business without a license to do so is.
If, say, 1 out of 100,000 Kinder Surprise eggs had a toy worth quite a bit more than what was paid for the Kinder Surprise, then its gambling.
If the Kinder Surprise shoots out stars and streamers every time they open, with greater fanfare depending on rarity of item, then they are using psychological manipulation to get you to buy more. If they give out a few Kinder Surprises marketed heavily to children to get them addicted to the positive feedback loop and giving false hopes that the 1 in 100,000 prize will be in the next egg purchased... they deserve the ban hammer of the law.
I am more curious in what will happen to collectible card games.
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Hippie Logger Jock
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when everything here is a voluntary interaction and anybody who doesn't like it can stop playing.
Unfortunately, that is not true. Loot boxes were designed to create positive reinforcement that a certain percentage of the population gets addicted to and can't just stop.
Loot boxes are slot machines. You put in real money for that 1 in 100,000+ chance of a jackpot. They use flashing lights, streamers, music to create that positive reinforcemt just like the slot machine. They dangle a few free ones in front of you hoping to grab you in so you put down some real cash. They hope to cash in on the Gambler's Fallacy and grab more cash from you. For some, this will become a compulsive behavior they won't be able to stop.
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Hippie Logger Jock
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The whole loot-box thing started because gamers were beginning to complain and boycotting games. Politicians had nothing to do with that, they are just reacting to those complains now. And depending on how exactly the gambling laws are written, those games were already illegal to begin with, the law just wasn't enforced properly.
No it's not a slippery slope: the fact it's "on a computer" makes no difference. There's a coninuous line between gambling and not and you can always make slight tweaks to make it more or less like gambling.
This has not prevented gambling from being regulated now or in the past. This is in fact the system working as intended. Gambline is regulated, but somone has to provide some judgement as to whether or not something close to the line is in fact gambling.
That's why judges exist.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Packs of trading cards are random and, until bought, you don't know what you're buying. Somewhere a clear line of demarcation needs to be drawn.
John_Chalisque
I don't know about Belgium or the US, but here in Germany, we have "Geldwerter Vorteil" (non-cash benefits). And our taxing agency is *very* aware of people trying to use that to circumvent taxation since forever.
I bet pretty much any country will have a concept like that. Belgium copies most of its laws from the surrounding countries anyway.
No, it's not trying to regulate the company. It's regulating the business the company does in its own country.
You, the company, should act like this in my country, if you don't, you can't do business here.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
This isn't something that you are forced to buy. Nobody is making you gamble.
You're compelled to buy and gamble, though, through various psychological tricks. Not everyone's resistant to that, as a matter of fact most people aren't resistant to that at all. Also, there might not be an alternative to obtaining certain in-game items, which is also a scummy business model.
We should not be banning something just because some people might do bad things with.
Actually, yes, we should. Maybe you meant "We should not be banning everything just because some people might do bad things with" - to which I agree. But take each "something" separately, look at it, then decide if it needs to be regulated or not.
There is simply no possibility one can obey all laws.
Of course there is. Don't do business in that country.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
They are purely cosmetic.
Irrelevant. I don't understand why so many people don't understand this. Exchanging real money to give you a pull on the slot machine, even if the slot machine only spits out shitty hats, is still gambling.
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
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Absolutely. There are games designed to trap "whales" who will drop thousands of dollars on a single game. They'll design features tailored to their wants just so they'll keep dropping cash.
https://venturebeat.com/2013/0...