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Belgium Declares Video Game Loot Boxes Gambling and Therefore Illegal (arstechnica.com)
The Belgian Gaming Commission has reviewed several big video games and found that randomized loot boxes in at least three of the titles count as "games of chance," and publishers could therefore be subject to fines and prison sentences under the country's gaming legislation. Ars Technica reports: A statement by Belgian Minister of Justice Koen Geens (machine translation) identifies loot boxes in Overwatch, FIFA 18, and Counter Strike: Global Offensive as meeting the criteria for that "game of chance" definition: i.e., "there is a game element [where] a bet can lead to profit or loss and chance has a role in the game." The Commission also looked at Star Wars: Battlefront II and determined that the recent changes EA made to the game means it "no longer technically forms a game of chance." Beyond that simple definition, the Gaming Commission expressed concern over games that draw in players with an "emotional profit forecast" of randomized goods, where players "buy an advantage with real money without knowing what benefit it would be." The fact that these games don't disclose the odds of receiving specific in-game items is also worrisome, the Commission said. The three games noted above must remove their loot boxes or be in criminal violation of the country's gaming legislation, Geens writes. That law carries penalties of up to 800,000EU (~$973,680) and five years in prison, which can be doubled if "minors are involved." But Geens says he wants to start a "dialogue" with loot box providers to "see who should take responsibility where."
absolutely agree, if you can't know what you're getting, it's a gamble. This is the stupidest trend in gaming that needs to end.
Here's hoping they include the scum bags at Psyonix (Rocket League).
'cause Lotto Belgium is a game of skill.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
The Belgian government is actually elected, and in fact, enjoys a much better electoral system than say the United States where your authoritarian tyrant had fewer votes than his opponents, and his petty sycophants were often elected in rigged districts that make the entire process suspect, even aside from their own blandishments that millions of "illegal" voters exist which would make their own election suspect.
Of course, Trump and his ilk are quite dedicated to controlling peoples lives as well, notice how they want to implement systems to bar those they don't like from the country, control people's daily lives, and as I learned from my Congressman's recent video town hall, they want to violently compel people to go along with their agenda. Even to the point of threatening representatives from other districts.
What about monsters that occasionally drop a rare item? What if those monsters occur as part of paid downloadable content? What if the monster is not that hard to kill?
I demand compensation. They can start by giving me all the loot, and maybe a few free chicken dinners.
Gambling has long been a protected area due to the social damage it causes beyond the immediate impact to the individual. Loot boxes are gambling without a doubt. They're fine as a game mechanic, so long as you never have to exchange real money to obtain them.
The sad thing is that companies will just move the point of payment. Buying "lives" or "health potions" or something like that, which lets you grind for currency to buy loot boxes and grinding without buying these things will be made impossible.
I'm happy and sad. Obviously obvious decision is obvious. Yay. Sad that that derp isn't obvious.
We had a similar problem here in the states, hundreds of millions of dead bodies in the streets because they couldn't afford health insurance (not to mention actual health care)... we got Obamacare as a fix, and now the streets only have living homeless people in them.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
By this logic, you're just paying for the loot box. Whatever is in it is a bonus.
I agree with the first four sentences...then you kinda went on a ramble, but that's ok. If we're supposed to be trusted with "choices" then why are some people excited about eliminating some but not others?
My son buys my daughter loot boxes for her birthday and she opens them in hopes of getting cosmetic enhancements in Overwatch.
I would not be overly upset if the thing she wanted could be outright purchased. I'd even bless it as knowing that she would get what she paid for. But last year, she got loot boxes and every one of them had something she already had. The result being that the money was entirely wasted.
My son and daughter stood by the computer while he prayed his baby sister would get what she'd wanted for so long. And while she was so happy he bought her the loot boxes, he was so disappointed that he wasted his allowance.
Loot boxes are shit. If you want to sell loot boxes, you shouldn't be able to put anything in them you can't outright buy in a store as well.
P.S. - I stopped spending an average of $800 a year on games when these shenanigans came in.
everything here is a voluntary interaction and anybody who doesn't like it can stop playing.
If that were true, we wouldn't need to regulate gambling at all.
If, say, 1 out of 100,000 Kinder Surprise eggs had a toy worth quite a bit more than what was paid for the Kinder Surprise, then its gambling.
If the Kinder Surprise shoots out stars and streamers every time they open, with greater fanfare depending on rarity of item, then they are using psychological manipulation to get you to buy more. If they give out a few Kinder Surprises marketed heavily to children to get them addicted to the positive feedback loop and giving false hopes that the 1 in 100,000 prize will be in the next egg purchased... they deserve the ban hammer of the law.
I am more curious in what will happen to collectible card games.
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Hippie Logger Jock
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when everything here is a voluntary interaction and anybody who doesn't like it can stop playing.
Unfortunately, that is not true. Loot boxes were designed to create positive reinforcement that a certain percentage of the population gets addicted to and can't just stop.
Loot boxes are slot machines. You put in real money for that 1 in 100,000+ chance of a jackpot. They use flashing lights, streamers, music to create that positive reinforcemt just like the slot machine. They dangle a few free ones in front of you hoping to grab you in so you put down some real cash. They hope to cash in on the Gambler's Fallacy and grab more cash from you. For some, this will become a compulsive behavior they won't be able to stop.
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Hippie Logger Jock
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"Belgium Declares Video Game Loot Boxes Gambling and Therefore Illegal ", no it didn't. It declared loot boxes purchased for money as illegal gambling. You can still have lootboxes you just can't be selling them for random chances at loot.
I am more curious in what will happen to collectible card games.
Technically these are gambling too: pay for a small chance to get a rare card with a high monetary value. But are people buying decks of cards just to play the game or start a collection? If there isn't enough pressure to keep buying packs, a judge might let it pass. However if people rush out and buy 5 more and 5 more again when the deck they got doesn't have a rare, like those idiots in "Charlie and the chocolate factory", it's a different matter. That golden ticket scheme would definitely be classed as gambling, by the way.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
The whole loot-box thing started because gamers were beginning to complain and boycotting games. Politicians had nothing to do with that, they are just reacting to those complains now. And depending on how exactly the gambling laws are written, those games were already illegal to begin with, the law just wasn't enforced properly.
Packs of trading cards are random and, until bought, you don't know what you're buying. Somewhere a clear line of demarcation needs to be drawn.
John_Chalisque
I don't know about Belgium or the US, but here in Germany, we have "Geldwerter Vorteil" (non-cash benefits). And our taxing agency is *very* aware of people trying to use that to circumvent taxation since forever.
I bet pretty much any country will have a concept like that. Belgium copies most of its laws from the surrounding countries anyway.
No, it's not trying to regulate the company. It's regulating the business the company does in its own country.
You, the company, should act like this in my country, if you don't, you can't do business here.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
This isn't something that you are forced to buy. Nobody is making you gamble.
You're compelled to buy and gamble, though, through various psychological tricks. Not everyone's resistant to that, as a matter of fact most people aren't resistant to that at all. Also, there might not be an alternative to obtaining certain in-game items, which is also a scummy business model.
We should not be banning something just because some people might do bad things with.
Actually, yes, we should. Maybe you meant "We should not be banning everything just because some people might do bad things with" - to which I agree. But take each "something" separately, look at it, then decide if it needs to be regulated or not.
There is simply no possibility one can obey all laws.
Of course there is. Don't do business in that country.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
I mean, if genetics isn't a game of chance, then what is?
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Aso there woud be no need for the AA.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
The Belgian government is actually elected, and in fact, enjoys a much better electoral system than say the United States where your authoritarian tyrant had fewer votes than his opponents, and his petty sycophants were often elected in rigged districts that make the entire process suspect, .
Except parties put whatever disgusting asshole on top of their lists, and even if you carefully skip the disgusting assholes in the list, once the acceptable people have the necessary number of votes to be elected, the remaining nominative votes are devolved to the disgusting assholes on top of the list you didn't want to see elected.
Except for half of the politicians (Michel, Tobback, Whatelet, Lutgen, Van Den Bossche,...), including our prime minister, who are sons of the previous generation (some of whom were convicted for corruption, and who themselves are suspected of corruption (Mathot, Daerden)) of politicians because of this system of electoral nomination.
Except for the vast majority of politicians being appointed to high paying corporate administration of (semi-)public companies, only to create more intermediate level boards whose only purpose is to get more money from these companies.
But I guess yes our political system is less corrupt than the US one
(not to speak of the election of Laurent Louis). Next to that, the electoral college is very straightforward.
No, it is not... because you are not paying for the toy inside of it. You are paying only for the chocolate egg that the toy comes inside of, and the value of the egg is a known and fixed value. The toy is then considered a free gift that comes with the treat, designed to motivate people to buy them.
CCG's with randomized packs are a bit more interesting, because I'm not sure if there's a known and fixed value that can be associated with them.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The value of that content is not known before you buy the item, however... the value of a chocolate egg in the case of KS is.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Just to be clear, Gerrymandering is an abomination that both major US political parties actively engage in. As citizens we shouldn't tolerate it from either of them. However there isn't really a good way to clean up that mess without changing up our entire electoral system, so we're likely stuck with it.
No, it is not... because you are not paying for the toy inside of it. You are paying only for the chocolate egg that the toy comes inside of, and the value of the egg is a known and fixed value. The toy is then considered a free gift that comes with the treat, designed to motivate people to buy them.
I doubt that argument would work. Once there's a 1-in-100,000 chance of getting something valuable inside the egg, people will start paying for the chance to get the valuable thing regardless of the chocolate.
The reason it isn't gambling is that all of the toys have the same value, so it doesn't really matter which one you get.
Absolutely. There are games designed to trap "whales" who will drop thousands of dollars on a single game. They'll design features tailored to their wants just so they'll keep dropping cash.
https://venturebeat.com/2013/0...
I doubt if there is any similar sized country with this level of federalization.
Fascinating.
Tell me more about this theory of Donald Trump not being elected.
Hey!
;)
Think of all the households destroyed by loot boxes, you insensitive clod !!
It's not the government. It's the "democratically" elected government. There was a huge public outcry, and they're doing something about it. It's not different than society deciding that murder is unacceptable.
If you buy a sandwich it might taste awful or it might taste awesome.
Gambling !!
Now someone owes me a million euros.
I miss the good ole days when I wasn't forced to pay $400 a month for insurance I can't use.
"Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
Put up or shut up AC. Other than you ridiculous assertions based on the typical deranged delusions that infect leftists like you, do you have anything else of substance to add that questions the validity of Belguim outlawing lockboxes in MMO's?
Right, which is the only system of voting that matters in presidential elections. Trotting out popular vote tallies is meaningless and irrelevant in this regard. The fact that moronic leftists like you still cling to this notion is only a testament to the delusions you operate under.
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