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Chinese Journalist Banned From Flying, Buying Property Due To 'Social Credit Score' (cbslocal.com)

schwit1 shares a report from CBS Local: China is rolling out a high-tech plan to give all of its 1.4 billion citizens a personal score, based on how they behave. But there are consequences if a score gets too low, and for some that's cause for concern. When Liu Hu recently tried to book a flight, he was told he was banned from flying because he was on the list of untrustworthy people. Liu is a journalist who was ordered by a court to apologize for a series of tweets he wrote and was then told his apology was insincere. "I can't buy property. My child can't go to a private school," he said. "You feel you're being controlled by the list all the time." And the list is now getting longer as every Chinese citizen is being assigned a social credit score -- a fluctuating rating based on a range of behaviors. It's believed that community service and buying Chinese-made products can raise your score. Fraud, tax evasion and smoking in non-smoking areas can drop it.

13 of 404 comments (clear)

  1. China has "progressive" thought-police too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow, who knew!

  2. Someone's been watching Black Mirror... by wiretrip · · Score: 5, Informative

    ..and thought 'That's a good idea!'.... Scary..

    1. Re:Someone's been watching Black Mirror... by dromgodis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It IS a good idea, I've been advocating it for ages.

      I wouldn't use it to ban you from flying though.

      *You* wouldn't use it at all. You would be used by it, at the whims of whoever would control it.

    2. Re:Someone's been watching Black Mirror... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off, the points on your license are only lost because of traffic offenses. You don't lose points for tweeting doubleplusungood opinions or shoplifting. And in some countries you only lose points for serious and dangerous traffic violations, not for doing 90 in an 80 zone. Meaning that a string of little offenses does not escalate into seriousy heavy punishment when some arbitrary threshold is crossed
      Second, the points (and accompanying fine) are issued administratively, but in most (or all?) countries in Europe you do have the right to go to court if you think there has been a mistake.
      Thirdly, if you lose your points you are banned from driving, not from flying or from buying property.

      All this honours the idea that the punishment should fit the crime. The Chinese system on the other hand lets a number of small transgressions turn into a life ruining event. And since it bans you from a large number of activitites that are completely unrelated to each other or to the crime, this smells of cruel and unusual punishment and double jeopardy.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:Someone's been watching Black Mirror... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It IS a good idea, I've been advocating it for ages.

      Yeah, well your advocacy is deemed antisocial, so your score just went off a cliff. No school for your kids!!!

      The trouble with advocating authoritarianism the way you do is that it will *always* be used against you. How fast would we have had legalised gay marriages if we were keeping an antisocial scorecard? How long would it have taken to strike-down Jim Crow laws if everyone was kept in check via a non-court scorecard?

      Besides, you want these things implemented? Sure. How about I get your score into negative territory by complaining that your music was loud at 2am, or that you were smoking in a no-smoking area, or that you I saw you littering? With no due process how are you going to defend yourself when it's my word against your word?

      Take it to court? Sorry. Your advocacy was for bypassing the courts when issuing penalties.

      See, the thing is you think your shit don't stink, so these penalties would never apply to you, but the thing your advocating for (bypassing due process) can be used against you by anyone, not just those in power.

      You go ahead and get this implemented, but don't cry foul when you get penalised for blaring music at 2am even though you did no such thing. When you bypass due process, you bypass it for everyone, including yourself.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    4. Re:Someone's been watching Black Mirror... by Knightman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with this solution is that you get a society that stagnates and ossifies. It's a simple solution for a complex problem that causes more problems in the end.

      Anyone fighting for social change would be labeled as antisocial and suddenly their rights are heavily circumscribed.

      Those who think this is a good idea is the same type of people who want to treat the symptoms rather than the cause.

      --
      --- Reality doesn't care about your opinions, it happens anyway and if you are in the way you'll get squished.
    5. Re: Someone's been watching Black Mirror... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ah, do you mean like making smoking/possession of marijuana a criminal offense and then using that as a basis to disenfranchise people from voting, employment, welfare, etc.? No free country would ever do something like that, would it?

  3. Re:Some Merit by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Look at some of the current people in our government.

    The problem with your idea is that those are the people who would decide what your "social score" is. Do you really think that the people who covered up Teddy Kennedy leaving a woman to die would have counted any of his anti-social behavior against him? Or that the people who are angry about Donald Trump's alleged sexual harassment but were OK with Bill Clinton's alleged rapes would have evenly applied "social scores"?

    Basically, the concept only works if you have honest, trustworthy people to implement it, but if you have such people in positions of power, you don't need it.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  4. Re:Welcome to the world predicted in Black Mirror! by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Considering this and things like it have been talked about way before that show was made it's less the Chinese looking at a fictional dystopia for ideas to implement and more just the writers of a fictional dystopia hearing about Chinese plans and adding it to their fictional dystopia.

    It's a horrifying idea none the less and only made even more horrifying by now having been implemented in the worst way possible in real life. Then again considering all the outrageous ways China has tried to control it's population over the decades in an effort to stop them from realizing the absurdity of their one party system this is probably business as usual from their perspective. If you can get thrown into some local Stasi equivalent's jail with nothing resembling a trial and coerced into confessing to all kinds of crazy things just for running a bookstore that sells books critical of the ruling party and system this may not even register for a lot people.

    --
    "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
  5. Re:Some Merit by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The thing about planning any far reaching system is that you need to consider what the damage that can be done if people with less-than-noble intentions take control of the system and use it to further their own goals. It's not just the danger conservatives imposing their ideas on how you're supposed to live your life and think taking over the system, there's also their opposite numbers on the extreme who are particularly keen on trying to prevent people from having opinions that differ from their orthodoxy. If implemented as something run by the government this system is particularly vulnerable to politicians coming in and changing what's rewarded and what's punished to fit their goals.

    If I had to come up with a name for this, it would be the "Monkey with a machine gun"-principle as I think that explains the idea itself pretty well.

    --
    "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
  6. Re:This is frightening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It already does exist in the US, in various ways. Ask any convicted felon about their experiences finding work, applying for credit, getting housing... "serving your time" extends well past the prison term.

  7. Re:Needs to be transparent by sinij · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We have "demerit" points on our drivers license here in Ontario. As long as the system is transparent (you broke this law, -25 points, you paid your tax on time, +2 points, etc.) then it's not so bad.

    Really? What about...

    Not recycling enough -1 point
    Does not bike to work -1 point
    Ate junk food -1 point
    Does not exercise enough -1 point
    Smoked near school -1 point
    Watches online pornography -1 point
    Neglected front lawn -1 point
    Did not sign co-worker's birthday card -1 point
    Cut someone off merging into highway -1 point
    Likes to listen to loud music at home -1 point
    Some other trivial bullshit -1 point

    At what point would this become oppressive tyranny by points?

  8. Re:Needs to be transparent by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Criticized the point system -1000 points.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust