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As More Users Complain About Poor Keyboard in Current MacBook Pro Lineup, Critics Say Apple Should Consider Recalling the Device (theoutline.com)

Last year, a report outlining what it described as a major flaw in Apple's current MacBook Pro lineup became a talking point in the industry. The issue was that a piece of dust could render keys on the MacBook Pro lineup useless, and that Apple had no idea how to fix it. Casey Johnston, writing for The Outline: MacBook Pro's keyboard keys stopped working if a single piece of dust slipped under there, and more importantly, that neither Apple nor its Geniuses would acknowledge that this was actually a problem. Today, Best Buy announced it is having a significant sale on these computers, marking them hundreds of dollars off. Interesting. Still, I'd suggest you do not buy them. Since I wrote about my experience, many have asked me what happened with the new top half of the computer that the Apple Geniuses installed, with its pristine keyboard and maybe-different key switches. The answer is that after a couple of months, I started to get temporarily dead keys for seemingly no reason. Again. Longtime widely respected commentator Jason Snell says, "I know that we Apple-watchers sit around wondering if Apple will release new laptops with new keyboards that don't have these issues, but Apple's relative silence on this issue for existing customers is deafening. If these problems are remotely as common as they seem to be, this is an altogether defective product that should be recalled."

36 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. this is Apple by fred6666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So Apple users are going to be buying the next version anyways.

    1. Re:this is Apple by Pike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not me, not until they've been out for a year and I can tell there aren't any major issues like this. Even then maybe not. Been an Apple customer since 2010.

    2. Re:this is Apple by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3

      Actually I got cash in hand, waiting to see if the MacBook Air gets replaced by something with a crappy keyboard or not. If it does, I'm buying an old MacBook Air at a deep discount once the replacement is available.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:this is Apple by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Actually as someone else mentioned, the (lack of) travel on the new keyboards is so bad that I might buy a MacBook Air anyway.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    4. Re:this is Apple by denzacar · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is Apple... So clearly they are holding it wrong.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    5. Re:this is Apple by phayes · · Score: 2

      The corollary is that people who don't have any Apple gear are going to be coming out of the woodworks to complain how "Horrible" the imagined "problem" is and how "Apple has lost it's way since Steve Jobs died".

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    6. Re:this is Apple by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've ffound the problem to be quite real, my ffriend. Like you, however, I also ffigured it was just made up bullshit... until 2 days ago.

      Sent ffrom my 2016 15 inch MacBook Pro.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    7. Re:this is Apple by i_ate_god · · Score: 5, Funny

      just buy a $50 lightning cable attached to an escape key.

      it's the apple way

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    8. Re:this is Apple by slashingweapon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You actually do have an escape key, but now it's on the weird LED touch bar. I never realized how often I touched the esc key without actually pressing it until I got a new MacBook. Apparently I use it to orient my hands when finding the number keys, a habit I now have to break.

      I disliked the keyboard at first, but after a week it felt natural. I hated the new track pad because it gave me a lot of trouble not detecting "right clicks", but it loosened up and now we're friends again.

      I'm still not fond of the touch bar. I'm a touch typist, and as far as I'm concerned that space is supposed to be part of the keyboard and it shouldn't change or move around when I'm not looking (which is always). I also want those darn kids to turn down their music and stay off my grass.

    9. Re:this is Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You actually do have an escape key, but now it's on the weird LED touch bar.

      That's not a key in the sense that a key is usually equated to some sort of mechanical switch. That's a capacitive button or touchpanel.

      Apparently I use it to orient my hands when finding the number keys, a habit I now have to break.

      Over yet another poor choice in Apple keyboard design. An aside; I still don't know why people don't consider the human input and output portion the most important design aspect of computers. Instead function follows form, when convenient, and when it doesn't infringe on marketing bulletpoints and specifications.

      I disliked the keyboard at first, but after a week it felt natural.

      This is frustrating to hear. Because, with other products, people will complain and maybe admit defeat and just get "used to it." But only Apple products transform the mind so much that people can completely ignore the flaws so much that they feel "natural," or otherwise have no problems with the device. Why do Apple products get a pass like this from Apple users but nothing else so universally gets the same treatment?

    10. Re:this is Apple by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Bottom line: Typing code on a Mac feels totally retarded.

      --
      No sig today...
    11. Re:this is Apple by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      This keyboard is like the Titanic. It was never supposed to be susceptible to dust at all because of its design...but once the dust ignores the intentions of the designer, it utterly destroys the keyboard. :P

    12. Re:this is Apple by karnal · · Score: 2

      A courageous cult.

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      Karnal
    13. Re:this is Apple by BronsCon · · Score: 2
      Oh... I forgot to address this:

      My point wasn't that the problem doesn't exist, it is that many Apple Haters who don't even own a Mac will claim that it is more of a problem than it really is.

      Eh?

      how "Horrible" the imagined "problem" is

      Imaginary things do not exist, that's why they're imaginary. That's exactly what your point was. And also:

      Apple has lost it's way since Steve Jobs died

      Looking around my Apple-filled home, I don't think it's the people who don't own any Apple gear who say this. I say it and, well, like I said -- Apple-filled home.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  2. Apple Still Has The Culture Of Steve Jobs by 8127972 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    .... And because of that there is zero chance that there will be a recall. Because that would be an admission that they've done something wrong. And they rarely admit that they've done something wrong or apologize (the Apple Maps fiasco or the "I Am Root" fiasco being the only two times that I can think of that they've said sorry for something). That's something that Jobs preached pretty aggressively.

    What's more likely to happen is that they will come out with a new keyboard design at WWDC in June and call it an "innovation" and shove it into every notebook they make to make this go away over the long term. And they'll likely come out with a repair extension program for this crappy keyboard if they have to so that the bad press goes away over the short term. .

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
    1. Re:Apple Still Has The Culture Of Steve Jobs by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      A spell cheque doesn't catch 100% off problems.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:Apple Still Has The Culture Of Steve Jobs by BronsCon · · Score: 2

      You can spellcheck code? Huh, I didn't know the dictionary already contained all the identiffiers, ffunction names, and variables I might use.

      More to the point, I'm not correcting the key-doubling here to demonstrate the issue, which is that I shouldn't have to rely on a spell checker to ffix a hardware design fflaw in a $2000 computer.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    3. Re:Apple Still Has The Culture Of Steve Jobs by BronsCon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can spellcheck code? You see, I am a developer, and I happen to know that the dictionary doesn't contain even a small percentage off the identiffiers, ffunction names, and variables I use on a regular basis, so a spellchecker would be utterly ffucking useless. More to the point, I shouldn't have to rely on a spell checker to ffix hardware design fflaw in a $2000 computer.

      It sickens me that people deffend this as though it's the user's ffault. I can't tell you how dust got under my ff key; I don't eat at this computer and I have a silicone membrane over the keyboard; iff anything, I'd expect dust to have worked its way under one of the outer keys, but not one in the middle row. And yes, I normally correct the double ff's myselff, but I'm not doing it here to make a point: when I can buy a $5 keyboard and not have to correct ffor its fflawed design, I sure as ffuck shouldn't have to correct ffor the design of the keyboard in my $2000 laptop. Period.

      That said, going back through my posting history, I'm noticing a pattern. Most of my posts with typos were typed on Apple keyboards; I can easily pick out posts made ffrom one off my PCs, or using a non-Apple external keyboard on one off my Macs, because those posts will have no typos. Now I'm wondering how long Apple's keyboards have actually been the problem.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  3. dead keys here too by umafuckit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd noticed this happening from time to time on my MBP but hadn't searched to see if the problem was widespread. Typically a key becomes dead for few strikes before coming back to life. Happens once every few weeks.

    1. Re:dead keys here too by I4ko · · Score: 2

      Very often. I can rarely type a password with my normal typing speed and have it come right. The keyboard just misses strokes. I am using an external bluetooth Logitech. I wish I had chosen a surface book instead of Macbook pro when my new workplace gave me an option.

    2. Re:dead keys here too by LQ · · Score: 2

      Yup. Me too with an official Apple USB keyboard. And don't get me started on the rubbish Apple mouse that you have to clean every day or scrolling stops working. I really don't know how Apple maintains any sort of good reputation.

  4. Dust is the least problem by almaden · · Score: 3

    While visiting the Apple store for an iPhone battery replacement, I tried the MacBook Pros that were on display. The "new" keyboard is positively terrible - not much key travel and poor feedback.

    1. Re:Dust is the least problem by berj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed completely. I didn't think I'd like this keyboard at all. I *loved* the previous generation. Then my wife bought one of the new Macbooks. I tried the keyboard and was surprised at how much I liked it. I went to the store to try one of the MBP keyboards since it's a little different (more key travel mainly). Typed on it for 10 or 15 minutes. Completely converted. I didn't buy one for a while after that but I was confident in my choice when the time came.

      Now when I type on an old style keyboard I'm the same as you. I find it squishy and messy by comparison. Though it's still miles better than any other keyboard I've tried.

    2. Re:Dust is the least problem by e432776 · · Score: 2

      I have to agree strongly with this! At an impressionable young age I was typing on this dang thing. No measuring what damage that did to me (I am still suspicious of "island" style keyboards!), even at the time I knew this was a terrible keyboard. Inputting those cool computer game programs in BASIC was just torture.

      Actually, that thing might make a person grateful for any keyboard that is not that one..

  5. Recall? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ridiculous. People are just typing wrong.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Apple recall stuff by denisbergeron · · Score: 3

    because users complaint.. haha, never in 10 years!

    They just have to buy the next version, anyway, they will doing it.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
    1. Re:Apple recall stuff by Strider- · · Score: 2

      My late 2011 MBP was recalled, and new motherboard 18 months after the extended warranty ran out, due to the Radeon GPU issues. Walked into the Apple Store, they swapped it out no questions asked. On a laptop that was almost old enough to go to kindergarten.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    2. Re:Apple recall stuff by swell · · Score: 2

      My late 2011 MBP was recalled and repaired for free on two occasions, both after the guarantee expired. Also, on both occasions they replaced other components 'just to be sure', so I ended with a mostly new computer. Unfortunately, they removed the hard drive in one case, explaining that it didn't meet their standards. They then installed a better drive and gave me the old, still working, one so I could back it up. On another occasion they removed some RAM they didn't like and replaced it.

      So that was for the MBP, my even older iMac was also serviced twice, after guarantee expired, at no cost. All these repairs were at least partially considered to be due to design or component flaws.

      I am very happy with their service, never paid for any of it. However I don't expect to buy any newer Macs until they are user serviceable.

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
  7. It's just the weak spot of this line by cerberusss · · Score: 2

    Most laptop lines have a weak spot. And it's the keyboard for the 12" MacBook and the MacBook Pro. Loads of people experience no problems whatsoever, but some do. I've had a Dell which had an old-fashioned harddrive that heated up the left palm rest. Very annoying. But not annoying enough to get rid of the machine.

    Now I'm sure that some really have defective keyboards, where it didn't have anything to do with dirt or something. That sucks of course. But in general I'd say: simply not eat in front of this laptop, and keep a can of pressured air at home. In my personal experience, it solves the issue.

    Not trying to be an Apple apologist or something, there really is a problem. But unless you have the bad luck of a real mechanical defect, it's easily solved.

    --
    8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    1. Re:It's just the weak spot of this line by Solandri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A weak spot is usually something the laptop maker skimped on to reduce cost, like a small battery, or a cheap screen, or HDD storage in the SSD era..

      The new Macbook keyboard is a deliberately created new feature. Apple came up with a new keyboard mechanism which reduces key travel in order to try to make the laptop a little thinner (like laptops need to be any thinner). It bombed, plain and simple. What's the point of making the laptop 3mm thinner if it forces you to add a can of compressed air to your laptop bag?

    2. Re:It's just the weak spot of this line by BoRegardless · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Weak spot" in a MBP keyboard is an understatement:

      1. Given that the keyboard is mechanically the most physically abused piece of hardware on the Mac (now that we have no spinning HDs), it ought to have the military tank ruggedness of the "Selectric" keyboard.

      2. Watertightness is an absolute must, regardless of what Jony and his champagne tastes has to say. Why? Spills happen. The worst case I saw was a glass of wine set down over a foot away from the MBP. The wine sloshed and sent a single drop of wine out of the glass and into the middle of the keyboard. Game over.

      3. Dust & cookie crumb tightness is s a must as these are real world gremlins.

      4. The keyboard ought to be able to be removed from the base frame with a couple twist locks like the batteries on earlier black and white plastic Mac Books had in the days of removable batteries. No sweat, no pain, no Genius Bar high priced keyboard repair bill.

      5. I should be a senior MacBook Pro human engineering design advisor after having spent 50 years designing durable easy to use products -- that people used and liked and ALL work as intended.

  8. There i a joke in there omewhere. by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Funny

    But really I jut can't ee it.

  9. Worship of thinness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Hopefully we can finally get over the quest to make the thinnest, lightest machine possible at the expense of power and features. The keyboard on the 2012 model was just fine. Let's go back to that.

  10. I don't get the hate by berj · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've had mine for over a year (13" touchbar MBP).. and I don't baby this keyboard. It's fucking filthy.

    I love the low key travel. I don't feel any strain in my fingers or wrists. It's *by* far the best laptop keyboard I've ever used. The previous winner was the previous style of MBP keyboards.

    No stuck keys, no increase in typing errors. Just love it all around.

    Now this isn't to say that people aren't having problems. I'm just adding my anecdote (and a few others who I know who have this same machine and love the keyboard) to the other anecdotes.

  11. Apple Keyboards by JediJorgie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They still call the *Backspace* key *Delete* so they obviously don't care about keyboards. :)

  12. This is bullshit by joh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Only the MBP with the touchbar has no "real" escape key, but a touchscreen one. If you don't like it go the the keyboard preferences and set your capslock key to be the escape key. Or buy the other which has a real escape key.

    The problem with this keyboard is the fact that it is utterly unreliable. Otherwise it's totally fine and people would long have stopped talking about it at all just as they stopped talking about the chiclet keyboard in the older Macbooks. But you can't start to love a keyboard that stops working every three months and has to repaired by exchanging the upper half of the case for $400 (once it is out of warranty). In the contrary you will start to fear and hate every little bit of it.

    Apple just screwed up here and then didn't notice or didn't want to double down and fix it. And this is not just a "you're holding it wrong" thing, it's a real, hard, ugly screw-up and it will come to haunt them. Nobody in his right mind should buy a $2000 laptop that is a write-off after the warranty runs out.