One Of LLVM's Top Contributors Quits Development Over Code of Conduct, Outreach Program (phoronix.com)

Rafael Avila de Espindola is the fifth most active contributor to LLVM with more than 4,300 commits since 2006, but now he has decided to part ways with the project. From a report: Rafael posted a rather lengthy mailing list message to fellow LLVM developers today entitled I am leaving llvm. He says the reason for abandoning LLVM development after 12 years is due to changes in the community. In particular, the "social injustice" brought on the organization's new LLVM Code of Conduct and its decision to participate in this year's Outreachy program to encourage women and other minority groups to get involved with free software development. "I am definitely sad to lose Rafael from the LLVM project, but it is critical to the long term health of the project that we preserve an inclusive community. I applaud Rafael for standing by his personal principles, this must have been a hard decision," Chris Lattner, tweeted Thursday.

Comments

Outreach

[DaMattster]

I think outreach is a good thing. I don't see how actively encouraging diversity is a bad thing. I do believe that prolonged preferential treatment given to one population over another is not good. There are good reasons for short term preferential treatment in order to build a diversity, but after a while, preferential treatment versus evaluating someone based on their merits, causes problems.

LLVM code of conduct

[Brannon]

So he's leaving because the "LLVM code of conduct" says incendiary things like "Be friendly and patient." and "Be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others".

Oh, and they're participating in an outreach program to encourage under-represented demographics to participate in open source project.

I guess that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[Bruce Perens]

It's kind of funny how in one sentence you protested that you don't need a piece of paper to tell you how to believe, and expressed a bad attitude about having rules. All in the same sentence.

I did tell a community I'm managing, in an email, that I never expect the rule to be exercised. They are all professionals. But the rule is working even when it is not exercised. Having rules is explicitly to do two things: 1. Exclude people who don't like them. and 2. Give a rules-based means for penalizing or ejecting people who violate them. #1 keeps #2 from happening.

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[barc0001]

> "why do we need a code of conduct that says be nice to people?"

The simple reply to this is "have you spent 20 minutes on the Internet in the last few years? There's your answer"

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[Solandri]

Oh, and they're participating in an outreach program to encourage under-represented demographics to participate in open source project.

It upsets some people because you're assuming that the under-representation is due to some flaw which needs to be corrected. i.e. You're assuming correlation implies causation. Applying the scientific method, the under-representation merely suggests that discrimination may be to blame, but is not proof in itself. One would need to first prove that the under-representation is caused by discrimination, before corrective action is justified. But instead, the under-representation itself is incorrectly being used as "evidence" that corrective action is necessary.

Also your corrective action is blatant favoritism which would be decried as evil and discriminatory if it went the other way. i.e. You're trying to fight one type of discrimination by encouraging a different type of discrimination. This accomplishes the primary goal, e.g. getting people to realize it's wrong to discriminate against women. But it has the unfortunate side-effect of making some people conclude it's OK to discriminate against men. So you're not exactly reducing discrimination, you just replacing one type with another. And your corrective action will result in a long-term oscillation between different forms of discrimination, with no real reduction in the absolute total amount of discrimination. If you want to teach people that discrimination is wrong, you can't do it with programs which encourage different types of discrimination.

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[slashdot_commentator]

Oh, and they're participating in an outreach program to encourage under-represented demographics to participate in open source project.

No, the LLVM organization is choosing to align itself with a discriminatory group, while LLVM pretends to be non-discriminatory by creating a code of conduct to be used as a tool to persecute members who disagree with discriminatory behavior.

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[WaffleMonster]

I have recently seen a high-profile community project where a key engineer believed (among other things) women should be shielded and kept at home. This engineer, obviously, had conflicts with people in the organization. Actually maybe about 30 people. Eventually, the membership walked off en mass and founded their own project. The new project has essentially the same code of conduct we're discussing here.

You need rules on paper for when stuff like this happens. It helps make slippery stuff like who offended who and whether such offense is out of scope for the project a lot easier to decide.

Fuck that. What needs to happen is people need to grow the fuck up and learn to tolerate those with different beliefs and values from their own. Including ones that insult you and piss you off.

What does beliefs about women have to do with engineering? Was the engineer designing home shields for women? Magnetic shoes to confine them to the house? Was the engineer doing something illegal?

Grow the fuck up.

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[cascadingstylesheet]

One would need to first prove that the under-representation is caused by discrimination, before corrective action is justified.

Yes, exactly.

Strangely enough, when people start treating you like you've done something horrible, and you haven't, people don't like that.

Re:LLVM code of conduct

[Dixie_Flatline]

You're looking at this wrong.

Under-representation is a problem because there are people that currently feel excluded from OSS, and they feel excluded partly because of the bad behaviour of some people in the OSS community, and also because after years of not being encouraged to be around, some people have decided that it would be nice to throw some encouragement to those under-represented groups. This isn't a matter of displacing people that are already here, or even stopping encouragement of white, straight, cis men, it's merely extending the circle of encouragement.

Indeed, YOU'RE the one drawing false causality here. Encouraging a woman to join an open source project DOES NOT implicitly discourage men from being there or encourage discrimination against men. Discrimination against women is a long-standing, structural issue in our society. Everyone does it, including women. Fighting against discrimination against women—i.e., feminism—is only encouraging discrimination against men if you're the most fragile of men, unable to distinguish between lifting someone up to achieve equality versus seeing the erosion of your own privilege as discrimination.

I'm a tall, athletic, white male with a university degree and all my hair. There is literally no axis upon which I'm discriminated against. I have no problem doing outreach programs where we encourage more women to enroll in computing science, or attract women to work in the games industry. I've done both those things personally during my life, and I hope to do more of it in the future. I'm not putting any men out of work, I assure you. I've had 2 female programmer colleagues in 16 years in the games industry.

Encouragement is not the same as discrimination, even if your encouragement is targeted. If you're afraid for your future (or the future of white men in general), that's on you. Try to figure out why you think me asking a woman to consider a career in this industry is such a threat.

Poor guy got triggered

[bahwi]

Seriously triggered, needs his safe space again where he pretends everyone is on even footing.

Maybe he will learn how countless others have felt with the unstated rules of discrimination in so many projects, companies, etc.... People should be accepted into communities based on skill. That's not how things are. The disconnect between how things "should be" vs. how things "are." People can still be fired for being gay (or even perceived gay, although I think there is a lawsuit there because he was actually straight).

Don't like politics creeping in? GOP has been pushing identity politics since before Bush W with the whole marriage ban and sodomy laws, there is gonna be a push-back and people aren't going to like it. When it affects individuals it's going to come back on the individual level, which means communities.

He's not wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

The requirements to be able to contributed to a project should be based on merit alone.

Re: He's not wrong

[sexconker]

You're actually on slashdot right now. I can't believe I have to tell you that.
CoC's only apply to those organizations, and are usually unenforced and dropped after awhile since they don't work.

You'd think so, but:

In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may, in rare cases, affect a person’s ability to participate within them, when the conduct amounts to an egregious violation of this code.

You're wrong.

Such codes of conduct, community guidelines, etc. are simply text they can point to whenever they want to blackball anyone who isn't on the SJW team. Oh, you voted for Trump? GET THE FUCK OUT, BIGOT! WE'LL ORGANIZE A HATE CAMPAIGN TO GET YOU FIRED FROM WHEREVER YOU WORK!!! WE'LL HARASS YOU UNTIL A NEW TARGET SHOWS UP!!! Oh, you posted "All men are scum. Kill all men! Whites are the devil. We need a new genocide!!" all over Twitter, Facebook etc.? Well, obviously you're entitled to express your feelings.

Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[XXongo]

I have to say, looking at the Community Code of Conduct he's objecting to, I'm finding it hard to figure out what exactly he doesn't like. This is the code of conduct:

be friendly and patient,
be welcoming,
be considerate,
be respectful,
be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others, and
when we disagree, try to understand why.

the only part of this that I can possibly think he might object to is the fifth one, which some people might consider suppressing free speech, but this is elaborated in the next paragraph as meaning:

Harassment and other exclusionary behavior aren’t acceptable. This includes, but is not limited to: Violent threats or language directed against another person. Discriminatory jokes and language. Posting sexually explicit or violent material. Posting (or threatening to post) other people’s personally identifying information (“doxing”). Personal insults, especially those using racist or sexist terms. Unwelcome sexual attention. Advocating for, or encouraging, any of the above behavior.

all of which seem reasonable. If he wants to violate what seems to be pretty bare-minimum standards of what should be considered acceptable behavior, I'd say that he should leave the community. And not join a different one.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[110010001000]

Why would you treat someone as an equal or with respect just because they have boobs or have a certain skin color? Very odd. People should be treated as equals and/or with respect if they deserve to be based on their behavior. I wouldn't treat Donald Trump with respect, because he doesn't deserve it. It doesn't matter if he has boobs or if his skin color was different.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[apoc.famine]

As it's gone way beyond setting "reasonable boundaries" and right into territory of trying to dictate someone's idea
of what manners should be.

So setting baseline manners for a large-scale group project is a bad idea in your mind?

Personally, I'm more than happy for people like you and him to get angry, stomp your feet, and leave when you're asked to behave reasonably well in order to be part of a community. Makes the community a better place for the rest of us.

Go ahead, make a hostile, bitter community of your own, with blackjack and hookers.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Immerman]

I think you're missing the point - it's not about treating women and minorities with respect because of their differences - it's about NOT treating them with disrespect because of them. i.e., treating them at least as respectfully as you would if they were white men, and perhaps slightly more so in deference to the fact that you're interacting across a cultural divide, and it's thus easier to inflict unintentional hard feelings, on both sides.

If you can't effectively call out someone's idiocy without mentioning their their race or gender, perhaps you need to consider that your real problem with them has nothing to do with idiocy.

In addition, if you can't call someone's idiocy in a social setting without being unnecessarily cruel and disrespectful, perhaps you need to work on basic social skills a bit more before trying to join a collaborative project.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[110010001000]

If that is "the point" then why doesn't it say that in the CoC? I do love your addition about "slightly more so" though. We are all equal, but some people are more equal than others I guess. Truly Orwellian.

"If you can't effectively call out someone's idiocy without mentioning their their race or gender"

Huh? Who said anything about doing that?

"In addition, if you can't call someone's idiocy in a social setting without being unnecessarily cruel and disrespectful"

Huh? Who said anything about that? You SJW types are really truly scary.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[110010001000]

You are missing his point. It is about him being associated with an organization (through his association with LLVM) that he thinks discriminates based on sex and ancestry. Not that he was afraid of being discriminated against.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[sjames]

I think what people react to is some fairly infamous mis-applications. For example, when David Howard was fired for using the word 'nigardly', or a couple guys getting fired because they had a brief snicker over the word 'dongle' that was overheard. In general, it's a bad situation where such a tempest can be raised when offense is taken even when it was not given.

Things like that have given the term "code of conduct" a bad reputation even where there is no intention of such behavior. It's like an organization that wants to give candy and flowers to people having a bad day names itself "the fourth reich".

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Ichijo]

Let's be clear. That organization practices reverse discrimination in order to bring more women and minorities into the industry.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[unimacs]

Also from their website: "Outreachy is a paid, remote internship program that helps people traditionally underrepresented in tech make their first contributions to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) communities."

It would seem to make sense to exclude white males since they are not traditionally underrepresented in tech. Would it not? Just like it would make sense to exclude boys from GEMs club.

There's a shortage of talent in tech, so we need to figure out how to get more skilled people into the field. Women are severely under-represented and no, it's not because they're just not as good at it. The number of female CS graduates has been dropping since the 80s when I graduated. Why? Are the women of today genetically less capable of grasping code than the women of 30 years ago? Nonsense.

It could be because it's not seen as a desirable vocation for a woman, and just maybe that's not something inherent to coding itself. And maybe just getting more women into coding will encourage other women to make that choice.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[robkeeney]

So you are all for discrimination against disfavored groups, as long as they're the groups you disfavor?

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[110010001000]

"The problem is that "disrespect" is based on the perception"

The concept of "respect" is much different in the younger generations. It used to be that you earned respect through your actions and abilities. Now young people think that "respect" is a right, no matter what.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Anonymous Coward]

His claim is that Outreachy is discriminatory because it's mission is to increase visible minority and female participation in open source.

No, Outreachy is discriminatory because it hires interns based on their sex and ancestry.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[unimacs]

I don't "disfavor" white males, especially since I am one, nor do I advocate for discrimination based on groups one likes or dislikes. In this case, since being a while male is not a barrier to getting a job in tech but not being one can be, I have no problem with an organization providing services specifically to help those who are not white males get jobs in tech.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Fringe]

He isn't being asked to behave "reasonably well"; he's being asked to sanction discrimination. And you openly being happy to exclude people because they don't agree with you, when they BUILT the community, is pretty much his point of the problem... you haven't helped the community or committed code, but you come in and apply SJW (his term) values.

Of the two of you, one is behaving as an intolerant bigoted bully... and it isn't him.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Cederic]

The problem is that the sentence reads exactly the same whether you use the word 'reverse' in it or not.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[mi]

If he can't agree to those minimum standards of acceptable behavior, then sure he shouldn't be admitted to the conference.

This is bullshit, and you know it. First of all, having to explicitly agree to this to attend a conference is like having to pledge allegiance every time to get food in a mess hall (as mocked so brilliantly in Catch-22 — great read).

How would like you like a daily popup on /. asking you to promise not to molest children today? Your probably would not... But, if you can't agree to that (much lower!) minimum standard of behavior, why should you be allowed to have Internet?

Seriously, like most corporations, LLVM has no separation of powers. The same people writing the Code of Conduct, are the ones enforcing it... Having it simply gives them a weapon to enforce their point of view.

And we know — from their choosing to associate with the trash like Outreachy — what that point of view is...

"Common sense is not too common" goes the saying. The code asks you to be "respectful" — what does it mean? If one were to show up to a conference in a T-shirt with a picture of AR-15, or a portrait of President Trump, would that be Ok? I've worked with people IRL, who'd file a complaint with Human Resources over such a thing — because they'd "feel unsafe". And it could get worse!

Likewise, what if a woman encounters an obvious man in a female bathroom — because he is "genderfluid" and felt feminine at the moment the nature called? Would the woman's negative reaction be "disrespectful"? By the standards of the Social Justice assholes, who'd consider yoga practice to be racist, it certainly would be...

We've been slowly boiled by these asshole for years. This man is a hero for raising awareness of this growing threat to our freedom.

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Anonymous Coward]

But this CoC goes much further than just prohibiting insults. It's a direct assault on certain political, religious, philosophical beliefs and attitudes that one may hold and espouse outside of the project.

For instance, the welcoming clause mentions supporting everyone regardless of their "immigration status". I assume that means if your status is considered to be illegal (or undocumented if you prefer) you are still welcome in the project. But suppose there is an LLVM developer who is politically opposed to DACA (in the US) and supports a moratorium on taking in refugees from certain countries with majority Muslim populations. And suppose that LLVM developer has contributed money to PAC's and political campaigns in support of his position on those issues. And also suppose that - using his real name on the internet - he posts messages on various social media platforms that espouse said political positions. And also suppose that he's never once made a statement about immigration at any LLVM conference, or on any LLVM mailing list, or irc channel, or any other LLVM community venue. IOW, he's completely separated his political view on immigration from his work and communications with others in the LLVM community. He kept it separate until that one time when he was asked about his views by another developer at a LLVM conference who happened to be involved in immigration activism and truthfully explained his position.

My question: Did the LLVM developer commit a CoC violation?

Re: Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[mi]

political belief

So, I have to "be welcoming" to Communists, Nazis, and KKK among coworkers?

Wow...

and mental [...] ability.

And idiots too? That's some "code" — for a software project...

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[Fringe]

His resignation letter specifically referenced the "social injustice movement" and the Outreachy program... which is very specific and very discriminatory. Of course, an "Outreach" program by definition is trying to "reach out", but that doesn't make much sense in a faceless meritocracy such as an open source code base.

And that is part of his point... the code of conduct shouldn't require tolerance for any "political belief"; political beliefs shouldn't be part of the code discussion at all. (Hence his use of the word "permeated.")

What you're missing is that you're relying on the reporting rather than reading his letter and following the link in his footnote.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[malkavian]

No gender or skin colour is going to cost you a job in tech. If it did, there would not be the large Asian and Indian presence in the roles that there are now.
In the places that are the most inclusive of all (such as Sweden etc.), there are still very low numbers of the groups in roles. This indicates that choice is a fairly large factor (and seems that the more "free to choose, rather than forced to work to survive" you are, the more men overall take up the roles, and women look elsewhere.
It's also illegal to discriminate based on gender or colour of skin, yet this is blatantly being done. If you want to raise the best talent you can, open the doors, and let people prove themselves. Take the best and the world improves. Force ideology onto things, and you're going to find yourself in a less than optimum situation, where the person that takes "that internship" will forever be looked on as "someone that could only get it because they're (x)", not someone that's achieved.
It's a massive insult to someone you way want to nurture in the first place, as they'll have that stigma, perhaps even detracting from a real talent (hey, if they're talented, why not hire them anyway?).
I keep hearing "It's so hard to get a job in (x) if you're a (y)", but see nothing in real numbers of qualified people complaining about it (you can bet it'd hit news pretty quickly). It seems it's the "everyone knows it" type of fallacy; everyone's being told that's what's going on, so people believe it. Despite very little evidence of it being true.

Re:Meet minimum standards of human behavior

[110010001000]

"I'm sorry, straight white dudes aren't the smartest fuckers on the planet."

CoC Violation detected. By the way, you types always assume there is a long line of non-white males that are dying to become coders. Amazingly not everyone thinks your life is so awesome that they want to do what you do.

Re:How horrable!

[Anonymous Coward]

His objections are more like objecting to discriminating on the basis of race, gender, and sexual preference. That was the last straw for him Do you support that?
I don't.

Some people support this only when it discriminates against the people they think should get an advantage. There's different ways to justify this. Everyone mostly agrees that basing discrimination on hate and prejudice is wrong. Other people think basing discrimination on an aggregate unfairness of baked in identity is OK. I and many others think discrimination is just across the board wrong. Some people don't want to be part of groups that advocate this form if discrimination.

To give you an example, a white, poor kid wouldn't be eligible for the Outreachy program. But a rich black kid would. How is that fair?

Code Vs Emotion

[Anonymous Coward]

I get it, and I agree with him. If I were the main creator of something, and suddenly instead of being all about code, working out logic facts and figures everything started to be about how people 'feel' then I'd get the hell away from that hot mess too.

We are looking to create, not to socialize. Placing socializing as a top priority on a logic problem over getting work done is insane.

The other thing is, we do not all want to be nice all the time. If I am just a volunteer contributor then I should be able to be racist, mysoginistic, all inclusive, homosexual, heterosexual, pansexual or any shade of human you prefer. What these directives are doing is attempting to tell us all how to think feel and act which has nothing to do with coding logic or creating. They want us to be someone we are not to fit a narrative of reality which we do not even really know is good or bad in the long run, we just know it's popular think at this moment in time.

At any rate, you can all demonize him all you like but the man volunteered for 12 solid years, did an amazing job and has decided to leave causing a gaping hole and potentially the death of the entire project. If they were looking to help the projects then they have failed by alienating the developers.

Re:Actual Quote

[Bruce Perens]

I don't know much about Outreachy. But a program that encourages participation by women and minorities requiring that funding candidates actually be women or minorities doesn't seem at all out of place for the purpose of the organization.

Re:How horrable!

[Altus]

If you don't like the code, comment on the PR, point out problems and weak points... but if you have to resort to anything that would violate those community standards in order to it then your points probably aren't that valid and perhaps you are not the great coder you believe yourself to be.

Makes sense to me

[WaffleMonster]

The last drop was llvm associating itself with an organization that
openly discriminates based on sex and ancestry (1,2). This goes
directly against my ethical views and I think I must leave the project
to not be associated with this.

[1] http://lists.llvm.org/pipermai...
[2] https://www.outreachy.org/appl...

What if the group was "white straight dudes under 30 only" would giving money to this group still be ok?

It's rather rich to preach tolerance of other tribes and at the same time actively promote and give money to clubs whose only requirement for belonging is tribal purity.

I don't see how it is possible to preach tolerance while actively supporting and funding tribalism while not becoming a hypocrite in the process.

If you want more diversity or whatever there are ways to get there that don't involve nurturing tribalism.

Re:Makes sense to me

[Cyberax]

Are there any real outreach organizations for white straight dudes 30-s only?

And you're the reason Outreachy is needed. Right now minorities are severely disadvantaged - they are less likely to get a good education, less likely to have access to computers when young, less likely to have a supportive social environment and so on. These disadvantages are real. They're there. They are inarguable.

If you know a way to compensate for them, so that a Latino kid with immigrant parents living in a ghetto neighborhood in Detroit would have equal opportunities with a white male from San Francisco then I would like to hear it.

Relevance?

[Locke2005]

What ever happened to, "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog"? Diversity is irrelevant when you only know people by their email addresses! Just because I'm using the name of an old white philosopher doesn't mean I'm not a young black instagram model!

Re:Relevance?

[slashdot_commentator]

You're being naive. Conferences and social networks are still means by which people "move up in the pecking order". And now these formerly volunteer organizations are becoming conduits to salaried positions.

Re:Sounds good to me

[slashdot_commentator]

How does a higher percentage of participation from women in an organization help the organization if it doesn't result in a greater rate of code improvement?

Re:Yeah, this is what he's talking about.

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people do you have to kill to be a murderer?

How many things do you have to steal to be a thief?

How many people do you have to hire with discriminatory criteria to be a bigoted organization?

Re:SJWs Value Tech Only as a Tool to Spread Bigotr

[Anonymous Coward]

The highest contributor is Chris Lattner. I'm willing to bet he's the founder/leader of llvm. I also willing bet it's his wife/girlfriend/sister/unspecified_relative Tanya Lattner who is responsible for this bullshit. It was her, after all, who wanted to partner up with that puke-inducing Outreachy organization that specifically discriminates against whites or cisgendered men. I don't see her name on that list of top contributors in TFA, so I suppose this is how she contributes to the project instead?

May this project crash, burn and rise from its ashes as a fork run by a meritocratically-minded group where the only property of your skin that matters is its thickness, your gender is only a problem if you make it one, and the only disability that gets you sympathy is RSI.

Re:Opposite. Requirements: Must be, trans or gende

[vux984]

"Oh wow -- for once in your life, there's something you aren't entitled to! How does it feel?"

Is that what we've been striving for? Here i thought it was to be inclusive and more diverse; to give everyone the same opportunities white straight men have historically enjoyed. Was I wrong?

Because apparently you consider it progress, even a victory, if we just make life shit for straight white men too.

Re:Opposite. Requirements: Must be, trans or gende

[Anonymous Coward]

Such a bunch of nonsense.

Wake me up when wages are more or less equal, when there are as many women in tech as men (give or take a generous 15 percent margin of error), when there isn't as big an asymmetry in violence between sexes...

*That* day we won't need a program as Outreachy, which is *explicitly designed to compensate* the perceivable skew we have, and thus has to discriminate in favour of those who traditionally are at disadvantage.

Yeah, giving up power feels sometimes funny, but believe me, at the other end awaits a better world, for us all.

Oh, btw. old white male here.

Re:SJWs Value Tech Only as a Tool to Spread Bigotr

[Cederic]

You can only be racist or sexist if you actually say or do racist or sexist things.

What the fuck does being racist or sexist have to do with it.

It's all down to what you can be accused and lynched of. If you want a recent example, investigate the situation James Damore found himself in.

Re:All we need are healing hugs

[squiggleslash]

It's not an attempt to fight bigotry with worse bigotry, it's an attempt to fight intentional or unintentional discrimination with a small amount of discrimination in the other direction.

I don't know where you're getting "bigotry" from, and I can't imagine why you think a small effort to encourage underrepresented groups into a project is somehow worse than overwhelming systemic efforts to channel only a privileged minority into it.

I am not making a judgment here about whether it's a good idea, but it's absolutely not worse than the system it's trying to undo, and it has nothing to do with bigotry.

Re:SJWs Value Tech Only as a Tool to Spread Bigotr

[Cederic]

Congratulations on missing my point.
Damore has been publicly castigated for being supposedly misogynist, despite at no point actually being sexist.

Just stop raping.

[hsthompson69]

You can encourage more minorities to apply for a job, increasing their representation in the applicant pool, without discriminating against any other applicants.

However, if you explicitly exclude applicants based on being straight, white, and male, you're actively discriminating based on sex, sexual orientation, and gender.

Fighting discrimination with more discrimination is like fighting rape with more rape. Just stop raping.

Re:For anyone who thinks this, my (black, female)

[24-bit Voxel]

The freer the society, the fewer women in STEM. Are we to force women to study things that they aren't interested in?

https://www.theatlantic.com/sc...

Where are the programs to get more males into teaching? Shouldn't that also be a big problem that we need to discriminate to solve?

Why does this door swing only 1 way?