Aventus Blockchain-Based Ticketing System Aims To Wipe Out Ticket Touts (theguardian.com)

umafuckit writes: The Guardian reports on Aventus, an open-source protocol designed to eliminate fraud and touting for large events. The Aventus Protocol "would allow event organizers to give each ticket a unique identity that is tied to its owner. Since each ticket is a linked list of records, where each new one contains an encrypted version of the previous one, they cannot be faked. The software also allows event promoters to keep an easy record of who owns the ticket, which means they can control the prices. The protocol was launched at Imperial College London last week and will be trialed at this year's world cup, where it will handle 10,000 ticket sales.

Comments

For those of us who are Yanks

[rsilvergun]

Ticket Touting is called Scalping over here. I don't see who this will help. I _do_ see this helping outright counterfeit tickets. But at the end of the day this won't stop scalping. Also, over here we've got Ticket Master, who actively encourages scalping since it shifts the risk to the scalper (and screws over the bands, who often sell out and then play to empty venues where they can't sell t-shirts & CDs because nobody could get a ticket).

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[Zocalo]

Based on TFS I'm guessing they'll be recording the name of the purchaser of the ticket(s) in the blockchain and somehow using this to try and prevent resale or transfer of the tickets by comparing that info with an ID at the venue. I'm assuming they've got a system that allows for tickets bought for a group, as a gift, for use as a prize, or any other legitimate scenarios where the specific individual(s) attending the event might not be known at time of purchase and/or the actual purchaser might not be present, but that's not strictly necessary if they are prepared to accept the lost sales that might result if they don't.

Of course, they could do all that with just a regular database that links a unique ticket serial number to the ticket's purchaser or intended user at the original sale with no block chain required, but that wouldn't have quite the same effect at generating hype and (more importantly) investment money, would it?

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[Peter P Peters]

Of course, they could do all that with just a regular database that links a unique ticket serial number to the ticket's purchaser or intended user at the original sale with no block chain required, but that wouldn't have quite the same effect at generating hype and (more importantly) investment money, would it?

The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions, and I'm guessing will be used to prevent the same people (touts) from abusing the system. It would be possible to ban offenders from participating in ticket buying and selling and void tickets immediately if they do, as well as off an easy validation systems of real tickets versus fakes for any potential buyers.
In theory it could be done with a DB, which is how most efforts work today, but all of them are useless.

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[gravewax]

Many already do record buyer with the ticket, the issue is it is near impossible to verify identity at gate, even a few seconds extra per person is a massive investment. for example you have a stadium with 100,000 people. if each person takes 10 seconds to verify identity (very optimistic estimate) then you are looking at an extra 277 hours of labour or to put it another way to get those 100,000 through the gates in 1 hour you need an extra 277 people manning the gates doing identity.

Traditional database

[enriquevagu]

Isn't it possible to implement this using a traditional, centralized database, instead of a blockchain?

Re:Traditional database

[Anonymous Coward]

No. In 2018 definitely not. If it ain't got many AIs and is not very blockchain, nobody will use it nor will mention it in the news.

P.S. It makes sense to use digital signatures with public key cryptography to allow offline verification without lookups into the centralized DB, but there is absolutely no point in chaining the tickets together, nor using any distributed voting mechanisms.

Re:Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Thing which already exists, except implemented using blockchain instead" is only a good idea if you're a contractor looking to generate billable hours out of buzzwords.

Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[crow]

The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days. Then they drop $50 for the next 5 days. Then they drop more slowly as the event gets closer.

Or something like that.

The point is that if you buy them up early to scalp them, you'll have trouble making a profit. If the fans really want to pay $500 for front-row tickets, the artists (or their promoters) get the money, not the scalpers.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[Anonymous Coward]

I still don't see why they don't just use an auction. Everyone registers with the price they want to pay and the week of the show it locks in. Highest prices get the best tickets. Venues get sold out even if people register at $5.

I stopped buying tickets except from scalpers because ticket site often release "blocks" of tickets and not the best ones. The more you pay and the early you buy, the better your seats should be. This was not true for many of the shows I went to and found that I could buy day of from scalpers for much less.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[raymorris]

When I was a teenager, Metallica was popular, especially in Denver. They would sell out Mile High Stadium. So they scheduled a show on Friday, and another on Saturday. It takes a large crew all day to set up the stage, lighting, sound system, etc for a major concert, then the concert is couple hours, then all day taking everything down and packing it in trucks. The band and promoter made a lot more profit by selling twice as many tickets, with the same expense to transport everything, set it all up, and take it all down again.

Then when the Saturday show sold out - they added a Sunday show. The stadium was nearly sold out the the third night. The people putting on the concert got all triple the revenue, and there were plenty enough tickets for all the fans.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[tlhIngan]

When I was a teenager, Metallica was popular, especially in Denver. They would sell out Mile High Stadium. So they scheduled a show on Friday, and another on Saturday. It takes a large crew all day to set up the stage, lighting, sound system, etc for a major concert, then the concert is couple hours, then all day taking everything down and packing it in trucks. The band and promoter made a lot more profit by selling twice as many tickets, with the same expense to transport everything, set it all up, and take it all down again.

Then when the Saturday show sold out - they added a Sunday show. The stadium was nearly sold out the the third night. The people putting on the concert got all triple the revenue, and there were plenty enough tickets for all the fans.

The problem is venues are booked months to years in advance. Unless you're in a tiny town or something, venues can often be booked solid, so you can't simply add a day - because two days later another act is using it and you have to allow for time to tear down, the venue to clean up, and the next act to set up.

For a normal city, you don't usually have the option of extending - unless you book and prepay the fees well in advance the extra days you may or may not need.

This makes it almost impossible - if you want to give people a date, you need to get the venue to book the date for you - but the date they give might have no room for extension. If you want an extension, you need to book the extension dates as well.

Remember, venue owners want to maximize revenue,and they'll want to book as many events as possible as tight as possible. Popular venues are booked solid, and you would have to pre-book extension dates long before you sell extra days.

Anyhow, the real problem with events is how many tickets are actually available. As little as 33% of a venue's seats are available to the general public.

The first third is for event participants reserve - they get a third of the tickets to distribute how they please - anywhere from the headline act to the roadies can get tickets from this pool.

The second third is for special promotions. This ranges from those tickets they offer on TV, radio, newspapers and online as contests to those special offers you get as being a member to something. Special credit cards often have special access tickets cardholders can buy - those tickets come out of that pool.

And remainder is what you get at the ticket booth. Some promoters will close reserved ticket sales prior to general admission sales and toss the remainder into the general pool to maximize sales.

Yes, a lot of those special reserve tickets end up being scalped by people who buy reserved tickets for resale - roadies and members buy up all the reserved tickets and scalp them.

Re: Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[Anonymous Coward]

Under what rule can "the public" not afford the ticket or does "the poor" deserve a ticket?

And I guarantee u if say Adele only sold to "verified poor people", rich people would still get the tickets as most of the poor would sell the ticket for stupid amounts of money, potentially to scalpers.

Why are u so against someone selling something they own for whatever price they can get?

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[HornWumpus]

Scalpers are a solved problem. Been done by many bands.

Add shows until the last one doesn't sellout. If all bands did that for 3 months, all scalpers would be broke.

Re:Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[morethanapapercert]

I quote: "go away or I shall replace you with a small shell script"

Automatically setting a flag on a web form submission is trivial, but only the most oblivious of PHB's would ever think of doing so. Sure Mozilla will sometimes refuse to address a complaint a user had, but a few points for you to ponder:

1)Mozilla is doing this essentially free for the user community. They are fortunate to have funding and revenue streams that allow them to do that. But it does require that they focus very carefully on what it is they want to achieve and to carefully weigh whether chasing every little bug is worth the manhours.

2)Sometimes things can't be fixed, not without breaking something else that large numbers of users depend on. My own experience is a case in point. Firefox 59.0.2 drastically changed huge amounts of the stuff "under the hood", so as to provide the increased security and faster browsing the majority of the user base was clamouring for. However, that meant that all my loved add-ons broke and in most cases, it just isn't possible to find anything that really replaces them because the underlying API's just don't exist in the new Firefox.

3) This is not unique to Mozilla by any means. Every major tech vendors do this to some degree, the only exceptions I know of are cases like Microsoft where they never tell you the status of a bug report at all. Mozilla is at least doing a good job of being transparent about their software maintenance.

4) Have you ever sat down and read a large number of those bug reports? Near as I can tell, the hostility of the tone in the bug report is inversely proportional to a) The severity of the bug and b) the technical savvy of the submitter. Every business has to deal with ignorant, stupid or just plain asshole customers. That doesn't mean any business has to waste any more time than the bare minimum satisfying them.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[gravewax]

popular bands don't just want to cater to the megarich. just because they could sellout priced at $1000 a ticket doesn't mean they should. It alienates their fans and in the long run will hurt them. what the want is for everyone to have a fair chance at tickets across varying price ranges. Regardless as others have said this is already a solved problem, their are various systems in place to lock out the scalpers now should a band/event wish to do so including multiple shows, registered fan ticket purchasing, identity verification for smaller events, various ticket limiting systems etc etc.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[houghi]

I do not care if they buy the tickets to enrich themselves financially by selling the tickets or emotionally by going to the concert.
I would not even mind if they bought ALL of the tickets and not go at all, leaving the artist alone in an empty hall.

To me it is that if you own something, you should be able to sell it. If you make a profit doing so. Good for you. If you make a loss. Also good for you. It is yours, so you can do with it as you please.

Or are you saying I can not buy anything with the intention of selling it later with a potential profit?
Scalpers do not drive up the price. The initial price that has been paid was and is the same.

That does not mean I like what they do and I do think that they are scum of the earth. It does not mean that I also think to have a right to do what they do. Defending people that you agree with is easy. I defend the people I hate.

Concerts sell out months is advance. Also, Sunday

[raymorris]

> The problem is venues are booked months to in advance

Conveniently, concerts sell out months in advance. Ticketmaster is currently selling tickets for John Mayer and for Jimmy Page concerts in 2019. Even of they don't quite sell out in the first 24 hours, Ticketmaster et al have enough information within 24 hours of tickets going on sale to pretty much know whether it will sell out.

Secondly, I suspect large venues stay pretty booked on Saturdays, not so much on Sundays. So if you book a venue for Saturday and put tickets up for sale six months ahead, there's a pretty good chance the venue will be available Sunday