Aventus Blockchain-Based Ticketing System Aims To Wipe Out Ticket Touts (theguardian.com)

umafuckit writes: The Guardian reports on Aventus, an open-source protocol designed to eliminate fraud and touting for large events. The Aventus Protocol "would allow event organizers to give each ticket a unique identity that is tied to its owner. Since each ticket is a linked list of records, where each new one contains an encrypted version of the previous one, they cannot be faked. The software also allows event promoters to keep an easy record of who owns the ticket, which means they can control the prices. The protocol was launched at Imperial College London last week and will be trialed at this year's world cup, where it will handle 10,000 ticket sales.

Comments

For those of us who are Yanks

[rsilvergun]

Ticket Touting is called Scalping over here. I don't see who this will help. I _do_ see this helping outright counterfeit tickets. But at the end of the day this won't stop scalping. Also, over here we've got Ticket Master, who actively encourages scalping since it shifts the risk to the scalper (and screws over the bands, who often sell out and then play to empty venues where they can't sell t-shirts & CDs because nobody could get a ticket).

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[drinkypoo]

I _do_ see this helping outright counterfeit tickets. But at the end of the day this won't stop scalping.

Literally the only things you need to stop outright counterfeits are a centralized registry and a good RNG. There is absolutely zero need for blockchain.

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[Zocalo]

Based on TFS I'm guessing they'll be recording the name of the purchaser of the ticket(s) in the blockchain and somehow using this to try and prevent resale or transfer of the tickets by comparing that info with an ID at the venue. I'm assuming they've got a system that allows for tickets bought for a group, as a gift, for use as a prize, or any other legitimate scenarios where the specific individual(s) attending the event might not be known at time of purchase and/or the actual purchaser might not be present, but that's not strictly necessary if they are prepared to accept the lost sales that might result if they don't.

Of course, they could do all that with just a regular database that links a unique ticket serial number to the ticket's purchaser or intended user at the original sale with no block chain required, but that wouldn't have quite the same effect at generating hype and (more importantly) investment money, would it?

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[Peter P Peters]

Of course, they could do all that with just a regular database that links a unique ticket serial number to the ticket's purchaser or intended user at the original sale with no block chain required, but that wouldn't have quite the same effect at generating hype and (more importantly) investment money, would it?

The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions, and I'm guessing will be used to prevent the same people (touts) from abusing the system. It would be possible to ban offenders from participating in ticket buying and selling and void tickets immediately if they do, as well as off an easy validation systems of real tickets versus fakes for any potential buyers.
In theory it could be done with a DB, which is how most efforts work today, but all of them are useless.

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[gravewax]

Many already do record buyer with the ticket, the issue is it is near impossible to verify identity at gate, even a few seconds extra per person is a massive investment. for example you have a stadium with 100,000 people. if each person takes 10 seconds to verify identity (very optimistic estimate) then you are looking at an extra 277 hours of labour or to put it another way to get those 100,000 through the gates in 1 hour you need an extra 277 people manning the gates doing identity.

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[religionofpeas]

The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions,

You can simply take all the data from the blockchain ledger, and put it in a database.

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[Zocalo]

Sure, but again, the use of a blockchain helps with the ID verification process how, exactly? The problem here isn't one of linking the purchaser of a given ticket to that ticket which is trivial with unique serial numbers, it's demonstrating that the person the ticket seller thought they were selling the ticket to is actually the same person using it at the venue - and that means some form of ID verification, blockchain or no blockchain. You might be able to speed that up if you use NFC or QRCode based scanning on entry with an automated barrier like some metro systems and airline boarding gates, so perhaps that's their angle - they are using the blockchain to somehow link that code to the ticket's intended owner and make it non-transferrable.

The whole point of blockchain is to facilitate a indelible public ledger, e.g. you'd have the ability to track a given token (or ticket in this instance) as it's transferred from original seller through a chain of recipients to its eventual user and for everyone to have visibility of that process. For event ticket sales neither is a requirement as (in theory) the ticket should only be transferred once - from Aventus, TicketMaster, etc. to the venue attendee - and the latter might actually be a extra legal liability under legislation like the GDPR since it's not only likely to entail personal data being retained for verification, but also making that data public for verification - where's the benefit over a regular DB? Also, given that members of some alternative communities have been victimised for things as basic as musical preferences, there might also be people who might not be comfortable with their choice of events being a matter of public record.

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[houghi]

They could just use your Security number as your ticket number. Add your Credit card number once it is paid. Add the CVV code as a control to see if all is OK. Just print this out and hand it over to the people at the entry.
I mean, what could go wrong?

Re:For those of us who are Yanks

[Peter P Peters]

The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions,

You can simply take all the data from the blockchain ledger, and put it in a database.

Which means all stakeholders rely on a single source of truth and single point of failure. Distributed Ledgers are cheaper and more robust which is why blockchain is gaining popularity

Traditional database

[enriquevagu]

Isn't it possible to implement this using a traditional, centralized database, instead of a blockchain?

Re:Traditional database

[Anonymous Coward]

No. In 2018 definitely not. If it ain't got many AIs and is not very blockchain, nobody will use it nor will mention it in the news.

P.S. It makes sense to use digital signatures with public key cryptography to allow offline verification without lookups into the centralized DB, but there is absolutely no point in chaining the tickets together, nor using any distributed voting mechanisms.

Re:Traditional database

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

You would still need a physical ticket in case the computers or network go down.

Re:Traditional database

[Peter P Peters]

but there is absolutely no point in chaining the tickets together, nor using any distributed voting mechanisms.

The chain also allows you to validate legit tickets from counterfeit ones, which is an issue.
Blockchain is good for reputation validation, it will make it easy to see who are the casual ticket buyers and who are the scalpers and act accordingly. If you are buying 20+ tickets each week, you could be invited to join the authorised reseller program and follow the rules, or be banned from buying tickets in future.
The technology exist to solve this problem, let's see if the marketing people will use it appropriately.

Re:Traditional database

[Peter P Peters]

You would still need a physical ticket in case the computers or network go down.

So some sort of device that converts digital bits to microscopic dots of ink on a piece or paper that make it readable outside of the computer? I believe I've heard of such a device....

Re:Traditional database

[religionofpeas]

The chain also allows you to validate legit tickets from counterfeit ones, which is an issue.

The post you replied to already had the answer for that. Legit tickets can be signed by official issuer, and everybody can verify them using the posted public key.

Re:Traditional database

[AvitarX]

Is that really enough of a risk to really worry about (if we buy the premise that reaold tickets suck, I don't).

It'd only be relevant in the situation that the computer doesn't work AND the enough of the venue's systems work for the show to go on. That seems like it'd be a rather rare occurrence.

If that did come to pass, they could probably pretend they're checking and just let everyone in. If a problem arises, then check against a printed copy of the list and check thouroughly.

Re:Traditional database

[Peter P Peters]

The chain also allows you to validate legit tickets from counterfeit ones, which is an issue.

The post you replied to already had the answer for that. Legit tickets can be signed by official issuer, and everybody can verify them using the posted public key.

Unless that single supplier is having an outage or being attacked. Distributed ledgers are more robust.

Re:Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Thing which already exists, except implemented using blockchain instead" is only a good idea if you're a contractor looking to generate billable hours out of buzzwords.

Re:Blockchains are completely useless

[Sigma 7]

Name one actual use apart from launching ponzi schemes.

A few governments (e.g. Inida) use this to ledger land ownership, which cuts down on the type of fraud that involves switching around records or directly altering the database.

But for the use of selling tickets, blockchain is technically overkill and doesn't help the problem of "giving" tickets to another person (who could then claim to be the first purchaser). They're better off using optical scanners, printing the name of the owner on the ticket along with price,

Big data

Machine learning

And of your list, these two are somewhat useful. Big data can technically become a library of useful textbooks, videos, etc. Machine learning can lead to general AI.

Scalping

[meerling]

IF this gets rid of scalping, Great!
If this just allows the source to charge scalping prices, I know where they can shove some explosive devices

Does this mean the end

[bobstreo]

of Ticketmaster?

Re:Does this mean the end

[crow]

That would be awesome, but no.

I swear the Tickmaster fees are are approaching the same level of pain as the scalper markup. (That was an inadvertent typo, but I left it on purpose.)

Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[crow]

The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days. Then they drop $50 for the next 5 days. Then they drop more slowly as the event gets closer.

Or something like that.

The point is that if you buy them up early to scalp them, you'll have trouble making a profit. If the fans really want to pay $500 for front-row tickets, the artists (or their promoters) get the money, not the scalpers.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[Anonymous Coward]

I still don't see why they don't just use an auction. Everyone registers with the price they want to pay and the week of the show it locks in. Highest prices get the best tickets. Venues get sold out even if people register at $5.

I stopped buying tickets except from scalpers because ticket site often release "blocks" of tickets and not the best ones. The more you pay and the early you buy, the better your seats should be. This was not true for many of the shows I went to and found that I could buy day of from scalpers for much less.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[raymorris]

When I was a teenager, Metallica was popular, especially in Denver. They would sell out Mile High Stadium. So they scheduled a show on Friday, and another on Saturday. It takes a large crew all day to set up the stage, lighting, sound system, etc for a major concert, then the concert is couple hours, then all day taking everything down and packing it in trucks. The band and promoter made a lot more profit by selling twice as many tickets, with the same expense to transport everything, set it all up, and take it all down again.

Then when the Saturday show sold out - they added a Sunday show. The stadium was nearly sold out the the third night. The people putting on the concert got all triple the revenue, and there were plenty enough tickets for all the fans.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[fafalone]

For less popular events sure. But top acts that will sell out? That method prices out lower income fans, and even a lot of the ultra-commercialized pop formula robots don't want their concerts attended only by the most wealthy fans.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[Peter P Peters]

The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days.

Also known as a reverse auction. I've heard a lot of people suggest it and I can't really see why it wouldn't work, yet here we are. Oh I know why, greed. Because scalping actually helps the marketing campaign by creating artificial supply issues, and contributes to hype which is what the promoter wants.
I'll be interested to see if they actually let this work.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[tlhIngan]

When I was a teenager, Metallica was popular, especially in Denver. They would sell out Mile High Stadium. So they scheduled a show on Friday, and another on Saturday. It takes a large crew all day to set up the stage, lighting, sound system, etc for a major concert, then the concert is couple hours, then all day taking everything down and packing it in trucks. The band and promoter made a lot more profit by selling twice as many tickets, with the same expense to transport everything, set it all up, and take it all down again.

Then when the Saturday show sold out - they added a Sunday show. The stadium was nearly sold out the the third night. The people putting on the concert got all triple the revenue, and there were plenty enough tickets for all the fans.

The problem is venues are booked months to years in advance. Unless you're in a tiny town or something, venues can often be booked solid, so you can't simply add a day - because two days later another act is using it and you have to allow for time to tear down, the venue to clean up, and the next act to set up.

For a normal city, you don't usually have the option of extending - unless you book and prepay the fees well in advance the extra days you may or may not need.

This makes it almost impossible - if you want to give people a date, you need to get the venue to book the date for you - but the date they give might have no room for extension. If you want an extension, you need to book the extension dates as well.

Remember, venue owners want to maximize revenue,and they'll want to book as many events as possible as tight as possible. Popular venues are booked solid, and you would have to pre-book extension dates long before you sell extra days.

Anyhow, the real problem with events is how many tickets are actually available. As little as 33% of a venue's seats are available to the general public.

The first third is for event participants reserve - they get a third of the tickets to distribute how they please - anywhere from the headline act to the roadies can get tickets from this pool.

The second third is for special promotions. This ranges from those tickets they offer on TV, radio, newspapers and online as contests to those special offers you get as being a member to something. Special credit cards often have special access tickets cardholders can buy - those tickets come out of that pool.

And remainder is what you get at the ticket booth. Some promoters will close reserved ticket sales prior to general admission sales and toss the remainder into the general pool to maximize sales.

Yes, a lot of those special reserve tickets end up being scalped by people who buy reserved tickets for resale - roadies and members buy up all the reserved tickets and scalp them.

Re: Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[Anonymous Coward]

Under what rule can "the public" not afford the ticket or does "the poor" deserve a ticket?

And I guarantee u if say Adele only sold to "verified poor people", rich people would still get the tickets as most of the poor would sell the ticket for stupid amounts of money, potentially to scalpers.

Why are u so against someone selling something they own for whatever price they can get?

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[thegarbz]

You're just buying into the: rich people rather than dedicated people deserve entertainment.

You can eliminate scalping very easily: Record the name of the purchaser and check it against a photo ID. Now before you complain about the lack of the photo ID, remember that most of the western world doesn't have that issue as we get photo IDs easily from our government, even poor people and illegal immigrants.

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[Dorianny]

The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days. Then they drop $50 for the next 5 days. Then they drop more slowly as the event gets closer.

Or something like that.

The point is that if you buy them up early to scalp them, you'll have trouble making a profit. If the fans really want to pay $500 for front-row tickets, the artists (or their promoters) get the money, not the scalpers.

Solving the scalping problem means making sure that fans are getting tickets at fair prices. At best, your solution merely transfers the unfair gains from scalper to production company and at worst the scalpers will sell-out the tickets at the highest price-point anyways and force the fans to pay even higher prices

Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping

[crow]

Not necessarily. First, for the top acts, even the listed ticket price keeps a lot of people out. Using the reverse auction system, scalpers are less likely to jump in, as it's harder for them to catch the right price and profit, so the real fans are more likely to end up purchasing tickets directly at a lower price.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[HornWumpus]

Scalpers are a solved problem. Been done by many bands.

Add shows until the last one doesn't sellout. If all bands did that for 3 months, all scalpers would be broke.

Re:Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[morethanapapercert]

I quote: "go away or I shall replace you with a small shell script"

Automatically setting a flag on a web form submission is trivial, but only the most oblivious of PHB's would ever think of doing so. Sure Mozilla will sometimes refuse to address a complaint a user had, but a few points for you to ponder:

1)Mozilla is doing this essentially free for the user community. They are fortunate to have funding and revenue streams that allow them to do that. But it does require that they focus very carefully on what it is they want to achieve and to carefully weigh whether chasing every little bug is worth the manhours.

2)Sometimes things can't be fixed, not without breaking something else that large numbers of users depend on. My own experience is a case in point. Firefox 59.0.2 drastically changed huge amounts of the stuff "under the hood", so as to provide the increased security and faster browsing the majority of the user base was clamouring for. However, that meant that all my loved add-ons broke and in most cases, it just isn't possible to find anything that really replaces them because the underlying API's just don't exist in the new Firefox.

3) This is not unique to Mozilla by any means. Every major tech vendors do this to some degree, the only exceptions I know of are cases like Microsoft where they never tell you the status of a bug report at all. Mozilla is at least doing a good job of being transparent about their software maintenance.

4) Have you ever sat down and read a large number of those bug reports? Near as I can tell, the hostility of the tone in the bug report is inversely proportional to a) The severity of the bug and b) the technical savvy of the submitter. Every business has to deal with ignorant, stupid or just plain asshole customers. That doesn't mean any business has to waste any more time than the bare minimum satisfying them.

what utter crap

[gravewax]

This is a solution in search of a problem and the problem it found is not the main issue. This doesn't prevent fraud or the problems at all. A fraudster can just buy one legitimate ticket then flog it off to many people, similar to what they do already. As for tying an identity to the ticket, this is BS and useless. Event organisers and gate entry don't have the manpower to check the identity of people as they enter anyway. .

Re: what utter crap

[gravewax]

many of the bots have been written to use multiple identities already. unfortunately you seem to be 10 years out of date with how the bots work or just looking to justify a pointless solution.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[gravewax]

popular bands don't just want to cater to the megarich. just because they could sellout priced at $1000 a ticket doesn't mean they should. It alienates their fans and in the long run will hurt them. what the want is for everyone to have a fair chance at tickets across varying price ranges. Regardless as others have said this is already a solved problem, their are various systems in place to lock out the scalpers now should a band/event wish to do so including multiple shows, registered fan ticket purchasing, identity verification for smaller events, various ticket limiting systems etc etc.

Re:Blockchains are completely useless

[religionofpeas]

A few governments (e.g. Inida) use this to ledger land ownership, which cuts down on the type of fraud that involves switching around records or directly altering the database.

A blockchain isn't immune to alterations. You just have to redo all the work from the point where you make the change.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[houghi]

Or you just do not care that people re-sell something that is theirs. If I buy a phone, I should be able to resell it. If I buy a ticket to a concert, I should be able to sell it.

Mind you, one does not exclude the other.

I once went to a concert for Prince. The Love Sexy tour, I think. It was in Antwerp and hardly announced, so it was not really sold out. Scalpers were selling the tickets at 30-50% of the original price and they where mostly unable to do so. Great concert. Also shows that I am old as fuck.
The only way we knew was due to a 2 line article in the newspaper somewhere in the middle. (Yeah, we read paper newspapers then) No Internet to up the hype.. No cerllphones to message people and let them know.

Whew!

[cascadingstylesheet]

Thank goodness that is solved now; we wouldn't want a free market breaking out or anything!!

Re:Blockchains are completely useless

[AvitarX]

Either:
1) AI is impossible
2) it will happen from learning
3) it will happen from programming.

Option two seems most likely of the three, even if not in my lifetime.

Aside from the octopus, pretty much every intelligent animal gets it from learning.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[fuzznutz]

Or you just do not care that people re-sell something that is theirs. If I buy a phone, I should be able to resell it. If I buy a ticket to a concert, I should be able to sell it.

Scalpers are speculators, not resellers. They are no different from the scum that drive up oil prices on speculation of potential "unrest" in Iran and Venezuela or general dislike of Russia among the masses. How did you like that nice housing bubble recession in 2008? Speculators from banks to appraisers to buyers all got caught with their dicks hanging out when it was no longer sustainable and guess who got to suffer for it? Don't confuse scalpers with regular ticket holders who find out they can't - or no longer want to - go.

Re:Blockchains are completely useless

[religionofpeas]

Do you understand the concept of a cryptographically verified ledger, verified by a distributed network, not a central point of failure?

Yes, I do. I understand that the safety against malicious rewrite is based on total proof-of-work from the entire distributed network. Now, tell me, what will be the total size of the distributed network that is going to run these ticket sales ? For example, how many graphics cards will you donate to running your part of this network ?

ID is a fallback in case of refusal at gate

[DrYak]

The way I've seen it implemented, ID is used as a fallback.

When the QR-code / Barcode is rejected at the gate, two scenarios :
  - some con artist used that code to generate a false ticket and managed to enter first into the premise, and the ticket S/N is marked as "already used". Too late to find out who's the cheater, but at least you can use the ID and verify the legitimate customer and let them in.
  - the legitimate customer already went in with this barcode/QR-code first. The person refused at the gate has a counterfeit ticket that re-uses the code from the legitimate user. The person will also fail the ID check (the ID in the database is tied to the legitimate user's ticket S/N). You can safely refuse access to the user.

So in term of your exemple, you aren't adding 270 hours total of checks spread among the ~60-80 people manning the gates.
You'r only adding 10s x the number of time the system reports "Ticket S/N already used to enter the event", so only for the ticket cloning counterfeit attempts-

It's not as robust as checking every single person entering the event, but at least :
  - the legitimate owner can always enter the event, no matter what
  - at most 1 single counterfeit clone-ticket holder can manage to get in with a given serial number befire the system notices and require ID checks for the same ticket.

---

This is usually coupled with another details (I've mostly seen in France) :
Event organizers and/or ticket provider, makes it mandatory to use a specific web platform to sell tickets second hand.
  - This platform forbids to sell second hand ticket at a higher price than the official ticket price. (It avoid scalpers)
  - This platform can track change of ownership for the organizers/ticket providers. Whenever a ticket is resold, the database can be updated to match the new legitimate owner (the S/N of the ticket can even be changed so that the older barcode isn't valid anymore), and the new owner is issued a new PDF that they can print that contains an update QR-code/barcode.

---

That requires a tiny bit of infrastructure (basically servers holding the database mapping who is the valid owner of a ticket, and what is the latest S/N on said ticket).
And blockchain is typically the kind of technology that can do decentralized ownership tracking - so no infrastructure but a distributed ledger.

But it's probably overkill. I haven't seen a barcode server failing on the day of an event yet, all the e-ticket have always been working as expected.

(But you can count on France that one day one critical person in this system is going to be on strike, and the system will be non-functional)

Re:ID is a fallback in case of refusal at gate

[religionofpeas]

And blockchain is typically the kind of technology that can do decentralized ownership tracking - so no infrastructure but a distributed ledger.

Most likely point of failure is the local internet connection at the venue, not the server. And if you're worried about the server, it's easy enough to get a few extra servers from cloud providers, plus some redundant network access. That should be more reliable than depending on anonymous parties pitching in on maintaining a distributed ledger.

"Large events"

[thomn8r]

...and the article image is Adele - perfect!

Re: Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[The-Ixian]

Found the Google employee...

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[houghi]

I do not care if they buy the tickets to enrich themselves financially by selling the tickets or emotionally by going to the concert.
I would not even mind if they bought ALL of the tickets and not go at all, leaving the artist alone in an empty hall.

To me it is that if you own something, you should be able to sell it. If you make a profit doing so. Good for you. If you make a loss. Also good for you. It is yours, so you can do with it as you please.

Or are you saying I can not buy anything with the intention of selling it later with a potential profit?
Scalpers do not drive up the price. The initial price that has been paid was and is the same.

That does not mean I like what they do and I do think that they are scum of the earth. It does not mean that I also think to have a right to do what they do. Defending people that you agree with is easy. I defend the people I hate.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[HornWumpus]

Wait a second, I know that answer: The banks and speculators lost their asses.

The problems were: 1. the government set insane underwriting standards, allowing anybody to buy a house they couldn't possibly afford, and 2. the government bailed some of them out, banks owning corrupt politicians (e.g. Bush, Bush2, Obama, Clinton, Pelosi) is the problem.

As to oil, that's a zero sum game. The futures price at delivery date is the commodity price. That's how it works for a consumable. If doesn't matter what you paid for the future, in the end there is a physical market with relatively little storage capacity. If someone thinks the futures market is inflated, they just have to have the balls to wait and buy on spot, that's a gamble.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[HornWumpus]

Prince was one of the ones that added shows to fuck the scalpers.

I don't have a problem with scalping as a concept, but I also don't have a problem with bands adding shows to deliberately fuck the scalpers.

Re:Blockchains are completely useless

[AvitarX]

The Octopus is not raised by parents, and is not social, and yet as far as animals go seems quite smart.

It is (I believe) unique in this way. Other "smart" animals are social and learn from each other, and/or their parents, the Octopus is just born smart, it's all instinct.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[thegarbz]

Or you just do not care that people re-sell something that is theirs. If I buy a phone, I should be able to resell it. If I buy a ticket to a concert, I should be able to sell it.

No one cares about people reselling things. Everyone cares about computers reselling things, and you'd be the first one on here complaining if the entire world's supply of iPhone got sucked up on day one by a computer and trickle fed to consumers at twice the price.

You are talking about reselling. The topic here is scalping.

Scope matters.

Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke

[JesseMcDonald]

To me it is that if you own something, you should be able to sell it.

I completely agree. But what do you actually own here? A piece of paper with your name on it? Even that might remain the property of the issuer; in any case, giving or selling your ticket to someone else does not imply that they have permission from the owner of the venue to enter and participate in the event. That permission was granted to you alone, and is not transferable, regardless of who holds the ticket.

Purporting to sell access to an event when one does not have the right to grant such access is fraud.

Showing up at the event holding a ticket issued to someone else, and claiming to be them in order to gain access, is also fraud.

On the other hand, if the venue is issuing simple "bearer" tickets not tied to any particular identity at below-market prices, then any issues they might have with "scalping" are a problem of their own making. The tickets may still be property of the venue and technically non-transferrable, but dealing with that should be considered the venue's problem. Laws specifically against "scalping" are an aberration.

Concerts sell out months is advance. Also, Sunday

[raymorris]

> The problem is venues are booked months to in advance

Conveniently, concerts sell out months in advance. Ticketmaster is currently selling tickets for John Mayer and for Jimmy Page concerts in 2019. Even of they don't quite sell out in the first 24 hours, Ticketmaster et al have enough information within 24 hours of tickets going on sale to pretty much know whether it will sell out.

Secondly, I suspect large venues stay pretty booked on Saturdays, not so much on Sundays. So if you book a venue for Saturday and put tickets up for sale six months ahead, there's a pretty good chance the venue will be available Sunday

Re:Blockchains are completely useless

[Sigma 7]

Doesn't have to be immune, just resistant enough to interfere with casual attacks.

If one simply alters the raw data early in the chain, that gets detected as the various other nodes have to backtrack about ~100+ blocks to accept the new content. Still doesn't prevent someone with a few supercomputer clusters from remaking these blocks, but a random clerk won't get far.

Not that it's the best system to use, but it's their decision to implement it.

Re:Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[Aighearach]

It sounds like someone doesn't understand blockchain technology, yes. But that someone is you.

If you look at the summary, almost all the benefits of this comes from giving each ticket a unique ID, not from using blockchain. And the rest come from encryption, which works just fine without blockchain.

The whole value of blockchain here is that the buzzword means people are more likely to tolerate the change.

Tickets benefit from being individually identifiable, and they benefit from being kept track of; but that only requires a list, it doesn't require a shared ledger. They make it sound like they can control the price, but the only way to actually do that is to require ID at the gate in order to use the ticket! Because otherwise, people selling at a higher price will simply sell the ticket without recording the change. And if they're checking ID, they could have controlled resale already, through their control of the list.

Re: Useful for software bug report tickets, too?

[Aighearach]

They also put care and intelligence into designing Chrome's architecture

LMFAO if that was true, they wouldn't be thrashing their features back and forth.

There might also be other reasons it is popular; they didn't switch from firefox to chrome, they mostly switched from ie to chrome. Maybe they're mostly simple people who want to choose something from some big company, and they would never have used firefox unless they had to? Maybe they'd heard that ie sucks, and they didn't even know why they wanted to change, they just knew that now there was a browser that their friend with lots of money said was a better alternative?

Concert tickets vs Airline tickets

[DrYak]

There have been airlines that shut down all flights because their ticketing systems had issues. {...} For most cases, I don't see any real benefit from this product that can't already be done via existing and simpler methods at the same or greater speed and cost...

Yup indeed, we're talking about concert tickets here and as you point out they are much more simple to implement in a robust.

Not a system where even the Internal Affairs Dept. of the Democratic Republic of Bannanistan should be able to append suspected terrorist to "no-fly" lists and send requests to your Airline Company to deny boarding to that suspect in almost real-time.

More a system where in worst case you can dump the whole list of currently valid S/N on the checking devices themselves
(but most often, as I've usually seen, have a local (optionally off-line) server with a local cache of the DB talking to the checking devices offline).

Send the few problematic cases to the special "customer service" queue.

Just a hypothesis

[DrYak]

Most likely point of failure is the local internet connection at the venue, not the server.

I'm merely pointing at what I'm hypothesizing is the invoked reason (so they can slap "Blockchain" to their idea and attract VCs).

Of course it's blindly simple to make a robust and mostly offline system for a music festival. (With a fall back to "customer service" queue).

And the most likely point of failure in practice is the actual physical processing of guests at the gate (bags checks, pat downs, depending on the local culture).
The personnel at the gate will start complaining not being able to process guests fast enough / The guests will start protesting that they wait way too much, long before any half decent ticketing system is overwhelmed.