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Scientists To Grow 'Mini-Brains' Using Neanderthal DNA (theguardian.com)

Scientists will grow small amounts of tissue, known as brain organoids, from human stem cells that have been edited to contain "Neanderthalized" versions of several genes. "The lentil-sized organoids, which are incapable of thoughts or feelings, replicate some of the basic structures of an adult brain," reports The Guardian. "They could demonstrate for the first time if there were meaningful differences between human and Neanderthal brain biology." From the report: The latest work focuses on differences in three genes known to be crucial for brain development. Using the editing technique Crispr, changes have been introduced into human stem cells to make them closer to Neanderthal versions. The stem cells are coaxed using chemical triggers to become neurons, which spontaneously clump together and self-organize into miniature brain-like structures that grow to a few millimeters in diameter. The lack of any sensory input means the internal wiring is haphazard and varies from one blob to the next. The scientists will compare the Neanderthalized organoids and the fully human ones to assess the speed at which the stem cells divide, develop and organize into three-dimensional brain structures and whether the brain cells wire up differently. The work won't reveal which species is "smarter," but could hint at differences in the ability to plan, socialize and use language.

32 of 71 comments (clear)

  1. We have plenty of mini brains on Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Usually accompanied by an ass bigger than their brain that even a goat could see.

  2. imho, what a waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How about spending money solving issues like corruption, disease and poverty?

  3. I don't like where this is headed... by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Funny

    This seems dangerous and offensive. There are no differences between any two brains. Everyone is the same and always was. Just because the Neanderthals get a bad narrative from the Patriarchy doesn't mean that everyone from Mediterranean Europe is inferior to those white privilege cro-mag ice people from the north. Even studying this should be illegal, because it may cause sensitive students to question the fact that every person is identical in every way.

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    1. Re:I don't like where this is headed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Glad to know you donated the DNA for this.

    2. Re:I don't like where this is headed... by Type44Q · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...those white privilege cro-mag ice people from the north

      Jesting aside, the 'pure cro-mags' are sub-Saharan Africans; the rest of us - particularly those from 'The North' - are the bastard half-breeds (~2% Neanderthal or Denisovian/Neanderthal).

    3. Re:I don't like where this is headed... by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Jesting aside, the 'pure cro-mags' are sub-Saharan Africans; the rest of us - particularly those from 'The North' - are the bastard half-breeds (~2% Neanderthal or Denisovian/Neanderthal).

      I know. Mostly, it's entertaining to just make fun of the people who seem to have completely incoherent ideas about the heritage of both the populations they love to hate, and the populations they're trying so hard to pretend aren't any different but are but aren't but are but need taking care of but that would be condescending but not but I guess we should just all feel guilty.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:I don't like where this is headed... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      It's possible, I suppose, that you descend from a branch of early humans that lost the Getting Sarcasm gene in some sort of freak mutation.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  4. Just great by reboot246 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    More Facebook users. Just what the world needs!

  5. growing our future generation of business leaders by layabout · · Score: 1

    or just replicating the past?

  6. Just how miniture are they? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    The term "mini-brain" is rather deceptive because they measured in micrometers. The largest it will get is about 5mm.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  7. So... by Mnemennth · · Score: 1

    ...building the perfect Congressman again, are we? Like that has worked out so well thus far...

    mnem
    But then, I repeat myself...

  8. "Abby Normal"? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Funny

    Who's that?

  9. They had bigger brains than us.

  10. All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by shaitand · · Score: 2

    If you want to grow and study some human brain tissue just do that. The minute one of your experiments communicates it isn't cool with it, THEN you have an ethical problem until then projecting human feelings and ethics on lumps of meat, protein, insects, and animals is just anthromorphic nonsense hindering progress.

    1. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      Got any kids you would like to volunteer for further study? Or are you volunteering for yourself? They/you will be heavily sedated, and if any of you do manage to communicate we promise to let you go, it's only ethical after all.

    2. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Really? You are equating a lump of cells with sedating a complete intelligent organism (our own) to shut it up?

    3. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      Since when are animals just lumps of cells. If they are, why aren't you too?

    4. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Lumps of animal cells aren't animals any more than lumps of human cells are humans. Animals also are not humans, when they appear to be behaving like a human it is mostly humans projecting their feelings and emotions onto the acts of the animals.

      For example, when you feed a cat and stroke it and the cat purrs like I saw in a Purina cat food commercial. A human tends to associate that with love being expressed for care which is a human emotion, the cat on the other hand is purring as a biological response to preparing to feed.

      A dog does seem to have some kind of affection but lacks the capacity for higher reasoning and that affection will transfer when its source of food and protection changes. Dogs are not humans, they are pack animals, the affection isn't real affection it is a function of loyalty to its pack leader that dogs have evolved as a survival function. Loyalty itself is an evolved pack function, changing loyalties instantly results in a lower survival probability than having some kind of innate skepticism toward a change in leadership that grows over time.

      Of course it goes both ways, much of what we couch in higher reasoning is really just dancing around and justifying human animal behavior but one thing doesn't change. We aren't dogs, or cats, or even a subset lump of actual human cells, we are humans. Limitations on how we treat humans benefits us and our children because anything we allow can be turned against us or our descendants. Limitation on how we treat other life can have a similar result. Just because a slippery slope is a fallacy doesn't mean taking a step in a direction doesn't make the path to some destinations one step shorter. That said, life is about tradeoffs, you certainly don't give up what definitely benefits human health and understanding for the sake of an individual. The difference is we can find out the motives of a human and try to change its mind and thereby eliminate the danger. The ability to do that with other animals is minimal, especially if we go projecting human motives on their behavior and when it comes down to it, limitations on risks to human life and safety are simply more important because we are humans.

    5. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      You are the one who added animals to your list of things.

      Your answer is 'that it's bad' except sometimes 'trade-offs' and 'it's ok' if we can try to change its mind?

      Lumps of cells can certainly grow into animals even humans. Happens hundreds of thousands of times every day.

    6. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "You are the one who added animals to your list of things."

      My list of things you might have lumps aka pieces aka hunks of. What I said includes a steak, what you said includes a cow, one is an animal, one is a lump of animal tissue. A cow most certainly can object to your research by expressing pain and/or resisting. You'll have no such reaction from a steak. Before you even bother ignoring context and suggesting you get steaks from cows I'll remind you the context is lumps of lab grown cells.

      "Lumps of cells can certainly grow into animals even humans."

      What they could theoretically in one possible future if everything plays out right become is another issue entirely. On the other hand hundreds of trillions of lumps of cells, human and animal cells, don't become animals or even humans before they end their existence. So without additional data indicating there is a high probability a particular lump of cells not only can become an animal or human but has a high probability of being an exception that will inevitably do so both given it's nature and the choices of those who own it we can safely assume lumps of cells will not. At the moment, a lump of cells grown in a lab that isn't associated with Artificial Insemination is highly unlikely to ever encounter a lump of cells that will magically transform into a complete animal or human on their table so we likely are safe for some time to come.

      "Your answer is 'that it's bad' except sometimes 'trade-offs' and 'it's ok' if we can try to change its mind?"

      No doubt you've strung together fragments from a paragraph into a nonsensical statement and beat it like a strawman as part of your legitimate quest to have everyone in the conversation arrive at the greatest possible enlightenment. I've just never seen an instance of using rheoterical constructs to win a debate rather than sound and transparent logic actually arrive at legitimate enlightenment.

      Perhaps you'd like a blanket black and white one size fits all answer. Those don't exist in the real world, everything that is good in one context is bad in others even some that will conflict with unassailable logic which proves the good context. There is no such thing as innate good or evil, nobody is ever "right" in a conflict they are only those things relative to a perspective. Would I kill a cow to save a hundred humans? Without question. Would I kill one? Without hesitation, even a cow I loved and a human I hated. How many humans are you killing by choosing to declare research on cows unethical? Even by supporting measures that delay that use? How many extra people die?

    7. Re:All this tip toeing is ridiculous.... by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      You sure do like words.

      But don't try to use them to hide behind, or twist your statements into something that they weren't.

      You started off saying lumps of cells and animals are ok but not humans, trying to draw a line somewhere to differentiate. And then towards the end admitted you would kill humans if the ends justified the means.

      You originally tried to draw the line at 'being able to communicate', when I showed you that it was not a very good place for the line. You didn't indicate what sort of communication, or how you would even tell if something was capable of communicating but you were listening wrong, or artificially stopping it from communicating.
      In the end it was irrelevant, you decided it's ok to kill anything you want, up to and possibly including humans, as long as you 'feel it's a good idea'.

      No idea why you are so fixated on the 'grown in the lab' part. Do lab grown things differ to their wild counterparts in some meaningful way?

  11. Re:imho, what a waste of money by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about spending money solving issues like corruption, disease and poverty?

    The root cause of many social problems is too many stupid people.

    The average inmate IQ is America's prisons is 89. It is even lower for violent offenders.

    Smoking, obesity, and many other health issues are correlated with low intelligence.

    Income differs by about $6000/yr for every 10 points above or below the mean IQ.

    Better understanding of brain development is one of the most important things we can do to address these problems.

  12. Re:imho, what a waste of money by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

    "Better understanding of brain development is one of the most important things we can do to address these problems."

    I think that's an example of what he's talking about, a tendency to look for certain kinds of solutions at the detriment of other kinds when trying to help reduce things like poverty or corruption.

    "The root cause of many social problems is too many stupid people"

    Stupidity isn't more present at one IQ level than another, though it does play out differently at higher and lower IQs; and knowing that, how would one even start to justify that stupidity in the higher IQs is less of a causal factor behind poverty and corruption than stupidity in the lower IQs is.

    And biology likes producing individual variability, the complexity generated is an important component of progress and biological evolution, moreover the internal complexities and dynamics of social exchanges imply inclusion is a default mode; so maybe we could put a little more resources into looking at why we have trouble reducing things like our promotion of dysfunctional developmental pathways and adversarial cultural ideologies.

  13. Mini Brains. Sounds like a cereal. by tdillo · · Score: 1

    New! Kellogg's Frosted Mini Brains

    1. Re:Mini Brains. Sounds like a cereal. by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      Or zombie snacks

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      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
  14. Re:imho, what a waste of money by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    how would one even start to justify that stupidity in the higher IQs is less of a causal factor behind poverty and corruption than stupidity in the lower IQs is.

    Because of overwhelming evidence. Low IQ is strongly correlated with both poverty and criminality. It may not be correlated with "corruption", but if we have fewer low IQ murderers and muggers, the police can focus more on high IQ embezzlers and bribers.

  15. Re:Higher IQ Criminals will stop you by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    More intelligent voters may be a solution.

  16. Re:imho, what a waste of money by zifn4b · · Score: 1

    The root cause of many social problems is too many stupid people.

    The root cause of "too many stupid people" is more interesting. Hold on a minute, I only have a 5 second attention span, it's time to watch Ow my balls.

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    We'll make great pets
  17. Re:imho, what a waste of money by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Now where the fuck is money in that?

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  18. Re:imho, what a waste of money by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

    how would one even start to justify that stupidity in the higher IQs is less of a causal factor behind poverty and corruption than stupidity in the lower IQs is.

    Because of overwhelming evidence. Low IQ is strongly correlated with both poverty and criminality. It may not be correlated with "corruption", but if we have fewer low IQ murderers and muggers, the police can focus more on high IQ embezzlers and bribers.

    "Because of overwhelming evidence. Low IQ is strongly correlated with both poverty"

    Yes, but I said how would you support the idea that there's a causal link not a correlation.

    Supposing poverty is caused by marginalization and taking economic advantage of individuals with lower IQs for the benefit of individuals with higher IQs then poverty would be caused by individuals with higher IQs while still being correlated with individuals with lower IQs.

  19. Re:Higher IQ Criminals will stop you by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

    "More intelligent voters may be a solution."

    Agreed, and things like better education, social inclusion, and better choices available throughout development, all lead to higher intelligence of voters and may be a part of the solution. Another big part is better politicians, better representation, better electoral systems, and better regulation of party financing.

  20. Re:imho, what a waste of money by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

    "but it would still be solved by lower IQ people getting smarts as to not get taken advantage of by higher IQ people."

    Yes maybe logically, but no because raising peoples IQs from lets say 70 to 120 doesn't work (or even 70 to 90), and even if you could a lot of people with high IQs can also easily be taken advantage. And maybe not being duped also has a lot to do with emotional 'reasoning'.

    On getting 'smarts', 'taking candy from baby's' won't be solved by educating the 'baby', same for a lot of seniors. And in between, I'd guess everyone no matter the kind of smarts they have can be taken advantage of by other individuals with the right a kind of smarts, and this no matter the IQs of the con-person and their victim.

    So I don't think a rise in peoples ability to 'not be taken advantage of' through education is a better part of a solution than reducing the degree to which we educate individuals with the idea that taking advantage of others is ok, can be deserved by the 'victim', and can even be worthy of praise.