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Illinois To Sue EPA For Exempting Foxconn Plant From Pollution Controls (reuters.com)
Last week, Reuters reported that "Illinois' Attorney General said she plans to sue the EPA for allowing a proposed Foxconn plant in neighboring Wisconsin to operate without stringent pollution controls." From the report: On Tuesday, the EPA identified 51 areas in 22 states that do not meet federal air quality requirements for ozone, a step toward enforcing the standards issued in 2015. An exempted area was Racine County, Wisconsin, just north of the Illinois border that is known to have heavily polluted air, where Taiwan-based Foxconn is building a $10 billion liquid-crystal display plant. Pollution monitoring data show the county's ozone levels exceed the 70 parts per billion (ppb) limit. If Racine County had been designated a "non-attainment" area, it would have required Foxconn to install stringent pollution control equipment.
Attorney General Lisa Madigan said she would file a lawsuit in the District of Columbia Circuit Court of Appeals challenging the EPA's ozone designations, saying its failure to name Racine County a "non-attainment" area puts people at risk. "Despite its name, the Environmental Protection Agency now operates with total disregard for the quality of our air and water, and in this case, the U.S. EPA is putting a company's profit ahead of our natural resources and the public's health," Madigan said in a statement.
Attorney General Lisa Madigan said she would file a lawsuit in the District of Columbia Circuit Court of Appeals challenging the EPA's ozone designations, saying its failure to name Racine County a "non-attainment" area puts people at risk. "Despite its name, the Environmental Protection Agency now operates with total disregard for the quality of our air and water, and in this case, the U.S. EPA is putting a company's profit ahead of our natural resources and the public's health," Madigan said in a statement.
Given the factory will be in neighboring state I would say Illinois doesn't really get the benefits (taxes etc) and gets all the bad stuff as pollution doesn't care about borders
So Wisconsin, where the plant actually is, was fine with it, to the point of cutting their taxes on revenue from the plant to encourage it to be built, but I guess since Illinois isn't going to see much revenue from it, they want to line up to stop it, instead?
(BTW, in case you wondered, like I did, Racine County ends about 6-8 miles from the Illinois border. The plant location itself is about 15 miles away.)
So still curious, I took a look at the WI site for air quality and Racine, as well as the County between it an Illinois, looks fine. Even if you go to the highest ozone level report, it's still maxing out at 47ppb. So it may have hit 70 at some point (Summer is usually worse), but it's probably not a frequent occurrence that it's up there. Certainly nothing to shut down a plant hiring 3k -13k workers over. I notice none of the articles attempt to quantify what, if any, difference the plant will make to ozone levels.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Apparently so. Not that it is the source of the pollution (it's not even built yet!) or would cause such pollution. In fact, it seems to me that these ozone levels probably don't even come from inside Wisconsin. Hmm, I wonder where it comes from, it must be those darned Wisconsin ozone swamps, right? Oh wait, look at this big city over here where both the ozone and the even more toxic legal action is coming from! But to be fair, I suppose some of the ozone could have come from Michigan.
So it may have hit 70 at some point (Summer is usually worse), but it's probably not a frequent occurrence that it's up there.
Of course not, all the EPA cares about is even a few days of "non-attainment". Even if the ozone came from hundreds of miles away, or from out of the country (Texas sometimes has troubles from slash-and-burn agriculture in Mexico), it's all the fault and responsibility of the local area where the "pollutant" is detected.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
She is. Whew, glad she meets your approval. It'd be a shame if she did one thing to protect the people of her state without also doing every other thing you can think of first.
No one does. Things have gotten so odious that politicians are just ignoring issues they could win on. I don't get it. I mean, I do - they seek office just to get in on the kickback train - but . . . It just doesn't make any real sense. It's Camus' Absurd.
I can create millions of jobs for you if you just give me a small labour law exemption.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
A company is moving in to exploit your cheap labor with a special license to pollute from the government, while your leader is a grade-A supercrook and mostly just his political opposition cares about that fact. Welcome to the third world USA, after much effort you've finally made it. A complementary basket of rusty VW beetles, oil barrels and discarded tires will be sent in the mail.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
"Chicago and most of the nation's other big urban areas have been on the list for years."
They already have, for years. No reason to leave Racine county off the list when it's already in non-attainment before the first shovel hits Foxconn's new grounds.
The EPA has turned into the Environmental Polluting Agency and this is a feature, not a bug.
This dyslexic conspiracy theorist puts his hat on, backwards.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
You mean, no reason beyond the fact that high levels of ozone are a health threat, so that adding to already high levels of ozone increases the health threat, and local sources of ozone generating emissions will have an even greater impact upon ozone levels that remote sources of such emissions.
You mean, it's hypocritical to expect Wisconsin to follow the Clean Air Act, which requires controls whether or not those emissions are local or imported, merely because every other county in the U.S. has to follow that law.
You mean that a plant located within 5 miles of the shore (something about a need to divert 6 millions gallons of water per day from Lake Michigan for industrial use, in violation of the Great Lakes Compact) is not within "an extremely narrow band that follows Wisconsin's shoreline."
Fine. You can argue all of that. In court.
And the rest of the Trump Eunuchs that think allowing dirtbag chinks to open a toxic factory with no hope of EVER making a profit is somehow great Job news. THE WHOLE FUCKING DEAL IS TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZED.
The county cannot meet the standards currently, mostly because of pollution from elsewhere (like Chicago) that is carried to the county by wind. Since the EPA started regulating ozone levels in 1979, at least one county in that part of Wisconsin has been a "nonattainment region" for the same reason. Why should a business in Wisconsin have to install expensive equipment to limit pollution when the problem is caused by polluters in other states?
Have you ever breathed in ozone? It hurts.
That's... convoluted. Another way to read her position is: "I oppose pollution."
Argue with facts now. Racine county has less than 25 non-attainment hours a year, due entirely from emissions from Chicagoland. And that water you claim will be "diverted" does not magically disappear. It gets treated to remove the mild detergent and returned to the ecosystem. And, nothing about the exemption proves anything about the emissions of the plant.
Do you have any data, at all, about ozone emissions expected from this plant, or did you just repeat what you were told to scream about.
If a Chicago politician really wanted to reduce ozone levels in that part of Wisconsin, they would push for Chicago area polluters to reduce pollution. In fact, Chicago is also an ozone nonattainment area; she could challenge that in court. She isn't doing that.
Also, it's beyond stupid to say that every other county in the nation follows those regulations. Chicago doesn't. NYC doesn't. Itty bitty Indian tribes and bands don't. The list of nonattainment areas is as long as your arm.
No it's beyond stupid that, once again, I must point out that Chicago is a listed non-attainment area (and does follow non-attainment regulations, thank you), that Racine is in non-attainment yet was delisted as non-attainment area this year (and so will not be following those regulations, again thank you), and that you are confusing whether or not a county is in attainment with whether or not new development must employ ozone precursor emission controls.
From TFA: "Pollution monitoring data show the county's ozone levels exceed the 70 parts per billion (ppb) limit. If Racine County had been designated a âoenon-attainmentâ area, it would have required Foxconn to install stringent pollution control equipment."
You've admitted yourself that Chicago is listed as a non-attainment area. Please, provide any evidence that Chicago does not follow non-attainment area regulations. I'll wait.
Because the point is to reduce ozone non-attainment and prevent a race to the bottom where (oddly enough, Republican) states and counties disregard non-attainment so as to minimize environmental compliance costs while inflicting externalities such as respiratory disease deaths on their own citizens and those of surrounding states/counties. Non-attainment areas must work to reduce ozone precursor emissions themselves and minimize new sources of ozone precursor emissions with enhanced controls -- not merely blame their non-attainment on neighboring areas and go on their merry way.
If you don't like the way that the CAA operates, then build the political coalition necessary to change it. Until then, comply with the requirements of the CAA or face suit in court.
Maybe your assumption that they could win on those issues is wrong. Maybe they have better analysts than you looking at the polls, and even paying for better polling data.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Not a shutdown. From TFA: "Pollution monitoring data show the county's ozone levels exceed the 70 parts per billion (ppb) limit. If Racine County had been designated a 'non-attainment' area, it would have required Foxconn to install stringent pollution control equipment."
Also, not particularly invested in your personal conclusion of attainment after having glanced at a one day, Spring season ozone report. Also from TFA: "The EPA, under Administrator Scott Pruitt, left Racine County off its non-attainment list despite an agency staff analysis of ozone levels in Wisconsin published in December, which found that the county's air exceeded federal ozone limits." We call that "arbitrary and capricious agency action" in my neck of the woods, and it's a good basis for a court suit.
Install the pollution controls required in a non-attainment area, and magically the suit goes away and the plant can run. Don't, and get sued.
Notice that the one thing not happening here is Wisconsin suing Illinois for failing to install ozone precursor emission controls in Illinois' developments.
6 million gallons/day? Chicago diverts 2 billion gallons/day from the Great Lakes watershed, much of it to move their crap elsewhere, just like they do with air pollution.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
When the Australian government gave everyone $900 it managed to be the only western country exposed to the 2008 financial crisis that not only avoided a recession, but actually experienced growth during it.
Imagine Wisconsin simply giving everyone $1700. I'm sure it would be a much better for the economy of the state than creating 10000 low wage jobs (as laughable as that figure actually is).
Go ahead, sue, sue until Foxconn moves to other places, taking with it the job opportunities for people living in the area
The jobs are not important. The plant will not employ many people to begin with, and it will employ even less in short order since Foxconn is a leader in automation.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Jobs are important, but not at the expense of the health of citizens and the environment. The EPA has stopped doing its job during this White House administration
I'm not sure I see the pollution problem? TFS says the county in WI already exceeds the O3levels, so IL is demanding that Foxconn not build there until the O3 levels are brought down. It says nothing about any additional O3 emissions from Foxconn; for all we know, the Foxconn plant may add zero additional O3.
IL was apparently content living with the existing O3 levels, but now that Foxconn is moving in, they raise a ruckus. To me, it sounds like either sour grapes against WI for getting the plant instead of IL (who was also bidding for it), or political hay because Trump.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Fuck suburban Milwaukee. Worst people in the world.
Says who? The EPA didn't list Racine County under the 2008 standards, didn't list it under the initial list of nonattainment areas for the 2015 standards, and didn't list it under the additional areas list that was just published. Well after the Foxconn plant was announced, the EPA told Wisconsin they expected to list Racine County as a nonattainment area, but later changed their mind.
Since Madigan apparently missed the lecture on Chevron deference during law school, I'll point out here that courts are extremely deferential to regulatory agency decisions. The EPA described their process and the factors they consider in determining which areas are in nonattainment. The EPA is not required to make that determination based only on whatever measurements you think support your case. "If you don't like the way the Clear Air Act works, then build the political coalition necessary to change it."
Um, as you yourself wrote, the EPA?
"Tuesday's announcement was a shift from the EPA's stance in December when it determined a much broader area of southeastern Wisconsin failed to meet ozone standards.
At that time, the EPA declared Milwaukee, Waukesha, Ozaukee, Washington and Racine counties in violation. The same was true for northern Door County and Kenosha County east of I-94. The EPA also found that areas near the shoreline of Sheboygan and Manitowoc counties in violation."
And in case you missed it in the final rule:
Oddly an almost contigious non-attainment area simply skips Racine county, because air pollution totally does that.
But I'm sure that the chage versus the recommendation was totally data-driven. Have fun in court.
well they can toll the small free part of I-94 / US-41
reopen the zion il nuclear plant!
This is not true. I don't think we should be talking about cakes, it seems like an off-topic distraction, but "being a baker" does not give anyone license to force you to bake cakes.
There are a couple of different ways that could come up I guess: one is if you are a baker employed at a bakery, and the bakery owner tells you to bake a cake or you'll be fired. If you have some problem with baking this particular cake, let's say it's for a gay wedding and you don't like that, then you have the option to refuse and be fired. You can also quit, but neither of these things are easy - you're constrained by your need to eat and live and so on. I.e.: you're a wage slave. It may feel like the bakery owner, your employer, is forcing you to bake a cake, as mentioned in your job description, rather than just sitting around doing nothing, but... for convenience, we've made a societal decision that wage slaves aren't real slaves. So this doesn't count as "forcing" you to do anything, since you can technically always choose to quit and then starve to death. Also: fuck you, peasant. Get back to work.
Another way it could come up is if you are a baker who owns your own bakery, in other words you've been granted a corporate charter by the state under the principle that your business provides some benefit to society. In this case the people telling you to bake cakes are your customers, and if one of them tells you to bake a cake, and you have some problem with baking this particular cake (let say it's for a gay wedding and you don't like that), then you have the option to refuse. In which case you'll be fired: your business will be fined for illegal discrimination until eventually you're out of a job. You can also quit, but neither of these things are easy - you're constrained by your need to eat and live and so on. I.e.: you're a wage slave. It may feel like you're being forced to bake a cake, as mentioned in your advertising, but... for convenience, we've made a societal decision that wage slaves aren't real slaves. So this doesn't count as "forcing" you to do anything, since you can technically always choose to quit and then starve to death. Also: fuck you, peasant. Get back to work.
So, as you can see, no one can force you to do anything in a free society based on free commerce and free enterprise freedom freedom.
Maybe you should read the letter from the EPA to Wisconsin, which makes it clear that they never declared Racine County to be in nonattainment.
As for what air pollution does, it also doesn't follow county boundaries, but that is by far the most common way that the EPA declares which areas need to use stricter emissions controls. Prevailing winds might carry Chicago's pollution farther north rather than sending it ashore in Racine County. The bit to the south of Racine is part of Milwaukee, which can obviously produce quite a bit of its own smog.
If I went to court for this case, it would only be so I could laugh at Madigan when the judge throws the case out and ask how much taxpayers money she wasted on a futile political stunt.
Why not capture this ozone and release it into the upper atmosphere? Resurrect two birds with one stone.
Maybe they do, I mean they do make the maps. But I was talking more about things like DACA and net neutrality.
Illinois sends their FIB's to Wisconsin to do 50 MPH over the speed limit and act like they own the state. Buying up land and building big expensive houses so residents of Wisconsin can't afford houses in their own state. Well guess what Illinois - FUCK YOU you FIB's! it's Wisconsin's turn to send shit your way! Keep your FIB's our of our state and maybe we will keep the pollution out of yours. Oh wait your already polluted. Oh and how is your gun control working there in Chicago? All those shootings you have every weekend and more getting killed in those than in ANY school shooting.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
Maybe you should link to it, rather than flatly contradicting published reports of the EPA's determination in December that Racine county was in nonattainment.
Milwaukee is north of Racine county, yet supposedly sufficiently smog-free to be in attainment while non-urbanized areas north and south of it are not.
For what? I mean, you've gotten so much else wrong you may as well add another basis upon which we can judge your failures...
This is the December letter that your sources incorrectly described as saying that Racine County was in nonattainment.
I didn't say they hadn't been assessed. I said the articles (meaning the links in the summary) didn't quantify it.
Thanks for the quote, although it would have been more helpful if you'd also have provided a link to the article which contains the quote to get the full context.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Your comment makes no sense.
If the options are:
1. Build plant, hire workers, pay less taxes from plant itself for a few years (although others involved will pay more taxes)
vs
2. Don't build plant in WI at all
Which one do you think results in more taxes to WI? The State isn't paying them for building the plant, they're giving them tax incentives (i.e. reducing their taxes) for building it in WI. There is a new tax benefit per job, not a "cost per job". You seem to be imagining the comparison point is if they built the plant with no tax incentives, which no one is contemplating happening. The alternative is no plant at all, not a plant with no break on their taxes.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
I don't think most people care about those, but the D's are trying to make an issue of net neutrality, for example forcing a vote on it in Congress. So well see if it works. More specifically, it matters if people are willing to change their vote based on the issue.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Odd, because the final page, enclosure 1, lists "Racine" under "EPA's Intended Nonattainment Counties."
What was incorrect about that description, again?
"Intended" is not "current" or "actual". Nonattainment is determined by what the EPA actually determines, under the procedures it has defined under the CAA. It's not determined by what the EPA says it might do in the future.
And the reason for the change between December (draft rule) and May (publication of final rule) was, especially given the lack of changes in other regions of the intended nonattainment areas? Guess what - that's what will be litigated. And it had better be based upon data rather than Walker/Pruitt political pressure.
But actual is actual (page 30), not based on what the Pruitt EPA announces in a final rule, and WDNR's own data shows that Racine exceeded the 2015 NAAQS by more days above critical values than all but two other monitoring stations.
So show me the "actual" data that demonstrates attainment.
Kind of. This is Auer deference rather than just Chevron deference. Unless the EPA has really bogus reasons or obviously lies about its reasons, it will win the case. It only really needs a fig leaf under current precedent. Or do you think that this is the case where the Supreme Court will suddenly change its mind about courts deferring to the expertise of regulatory agencies?
Wrong. The EPA has a process for determining nonattainment, and that is what determines nonattainment, not "draft/preliminary" and "subject to change" numbers that "have not yet been CQ'ed or certified".
The plant will not employ many people to begin with, and it will employ even less in short order since Foxconn is a leader in automation.
According to https://www.jsonline.com/story..., to get full tax credits and sales tax savings, Foxconn would have to employ 13,000 workers from 2022 through 2032.
Again, "paying 200 grand per job" wasn't one of the options. Being paid less taxes per job was what was passed. You're missing the point. No one is taking cash and paying the factory owners. The factory owners aren't having to pay as much in taxes for the first few years as they normally would.
The problem you're having is that you're reading news reports which purposefully try to confuse their readers by using false language to shade what was passed and make it sound like the State is giving the factory owners money. They aren't, they just aren't taking as much of a cut from the factory as they normally would over time.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
My point was mostly lost in this thread that grew on it. The government involves itself in a lot of our personal business. I really doubt in the case of the bakery/wedding cake that there was no other choice available to the wedding organizers. There were plenty of other places to obtain a wedding cake for the celebration. It isn't like the jim crow south where blacks found themselves locked out of towns almost completely. So the legal action against the bakery was a targeted and organized attack on a business that a community didn't like. Almost like the kind of stuff the Klan commonly did.
Incidentally, the Klan wasn't an ad-hoc lynch mob, or even much of a secret organization. At it's peak, it was a powerful mainstream social organisation with local roots all across regions of the US, like the Lions, Shriners, or Freemasons. In some areas blacks weren't even the main target. The Klan attacked Jews and Roman Catholics very aggressively. It was just a nasty flavor of social organization, with smaller militant wings that are kind of like antifa is today.