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Tesla Rejected More Advanced Driver Monitoring Features On Its Cars, Says Report (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Engineers inside Tesla wanted to add robust driver monitoring systems to the company's cars to help make sure drivers safely use Autopilot, and Tesla even worked with suppliers on possible solutions, according to The Wall Street Journal. But those executives -- Elon Musk included -- reportedly rejected the idea out of worry that the options might not work well enough, could be expensive, and because drivers might become annoyed by an overly nagging system.
Tesla considered a few different types of monitoring: one that would track a driver's eyes using a camera and infrared sensors, and another that involved adding more sensors to the steering wheel to make sure that the driver is holding on. Both ideas would help let the car's system know if the driver has stopped paying attention, which could reduce the chance of an accident in situations where Autopilot disengages or is incapable of keeping the car from crashing. Musk later confirmed on Twitter that the eye tracking option was "rejected for being ineffective, not for cost."
Tesla considered a few different types of monitoring: one that would track a driver's eyes using a camera and infrared sensors, and another that involved adding more sensors to the steering wheel to make sure that the driver is holding on. Both ideas would help let the car's system know if the driver has stopped paying attention, which could reduce the chance of an accident in situations where Autopilot disengages or is incapable of keeping the car from crashing. Musk later confirmed on Twitter that the eye tracking option was "rejected for being ineffective, not for cost."
Knowing that the driver is holding the steering wheel is not enough. You need to ascertain that all the muscular groups between the fingers and the spine are actively engaged and under tension. That is - fingers, palm, wrist, forearm, elbow, arm, shoulder... only if the muscules in all there areas are actively engaged you will ensure that the driver can take over. Eye tracking and a neural brain interface too to know what the driver is thinking...
....Tesla even worked with suppliers ...
Tesla has no suppliers! They are 100% vertically integrated!! That's why when it's reported in their income statement that they lost money, they didn't really lose money!! They paid themselves!!! They are BUILDING UP!!!!
How stupid are you people!!
All of you are morons!! And ignore the reports of Tesla's top engineering talent leaving. Tesla is AOK!! Musk is the most Brilliant engineer EVAR! And he can fix anything with a hack-a-thon because we all know assembly lines and building things is JUST like publishing software.
You Morons!!
Come on Rei! Tell these ignorant assholes that I'm right!!!
I hate you.
Y'all need to get off Elonz Nutz.
Tesla haters can continue to hate but there other factors, like investors, that need to be in play.
Yeah those Telsa haters! Reading the income statements, the cash flow statements and the balance sheet and asking, "Hey, what's going on with our money Musk?!"
Stupid haters asking stupid questions!! They should just STFU!!
What next, are they gonna ask something really stupid like, "Hey Musk, what about those 500,000 cars you promised to make by the end of 2018!"
Haters!! I really hate HATERS!!!!
They absolutely are.
In this specific business decision they chose to ignore the engineers and do something that appears to be dangerous.
At least vs other systems that do lane keeping and follow distance.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
The whole company is collapsing. Stock is plummeting, execs are leaving, they had to put their factory up as collateral for their credit line, Musk is reorganizing the entire thing. The shorts are making money though.
OP here - agree with your comments. I didn't craft my original reply enough to reinforce that Musk/Tesla is faced with fiscal reality. But first post, or whatever.
I am loathe to link to Ars because its quality has gone down hill, but Cadillac's Supercruise is geofenced and uses eyetracking with rave reviews.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/02/the-cadillac-ct6-review-super-cruise-is-a-game-changer/
Eye tracking may or may not be reliable enough. But if eye tracking is not reliable, then nagware is definitely needed.
I feel this whole auto pilot, full self driving a big distraction from the core reason why I support Tesla.:
1. Make an electric that is affordable for at least 50% of the Americans.
2. Make a no negotiation, everyone pays the same price model for the cars, price transparency (secondary minor goal)
I wish Tesla would just let someone else develop this tech and license it.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Sort of ..... the markets rely on Musk raising capital. And Moody's bond rating of Tesla is based upon that.
What Musk discounted was that the "shorts" - the folks that short stocks - aren't people who wake up one day and think, "I hate this company."
They are mostly CPAs and lawyers and total accounting geeks. They examine financial documents like we read sci-fi books.
They discovered Enron's BS before it became publicly known and every other BS company.
They aren't "Haters". They are cold calculating bean counters and are not to be taken lightly like Musk did.
I could go on.....but it 's gonna be a book.
Maybe Cadillac is made by people with experience making cars? And not some Silly Valley big talker?
So this information was thoughtfully reviewed, felt not to be in the driver's best interest / effective enough to integrate and wasn't. This doesn't seem like an interesting story. This isn't gross negligence, this is just decision making and business.
I think annoying drivers to prevent deaths is a acceptable compromise. How many bad decisions has Tesla made so far? Are they skimping in other technologies as well?
I test drove a Nissan Leaf with ProDrive, which is a lane following assist tech. It uses steering wheel feedback to make sure you're paying attention, and it felt like I was constantly fighting the car to drive.
Maybe Cadillac is made by people with experience making cars? And not some Silly Valley big talker?
When Cadillac launches a vehicle into space then you might have a point. Tesla has its issues, but to dismiss Elon Musk as a "Silly Valley big talker" is pretty ignornant--he's achieved quite a bit more than most entrepreneurs in and out of the valley. Doesn't mean he'll manage to displace (or even join) the automotive cartel, but he's certainly more than just a "big talker."
Every single time you enable autopilot it tells you to keep both hands on the wheel and be prepared to take control at any time. If you don't do that, it's your fault, not Tesla's.
All this bad PR lately revolving around Autopilot involved drivers who weren't paying attention. They really should have incorporated the eye tracker, that alone would have made a huge difference.
I see idiots in my city zipping around in their Teslas with their eyes in their lap all the time, even when there's kids in the back. It's infuriating.
In the mean time, I really think wanton police brutality needs to be legally sanctioned for people who are caught texting and driving, autopilot or no autopilot.
We are supposed to believe they can design cars to safely drive with neural nets but they cannot make a neural net to see if the driver is paying attention.
I figured it may be a troll/sarcastic.
I am a fan of Tesla, and want them to succeed, but I think they really oversold autopilot, and now it appears their engineers thought they did too.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
So then Autopilot does???
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Oh come on, that shit is easy to look up. level 2 autonomy? lane assist, crash avoidance, speed stuff.
You're clearly very smart, put your money where your mouth is.
I seriously doubt you're a Tesla investor. I am. And like most Tesla investors, I'm very happy with the company's management under Musk.
Wait, the company is half a year behind the ridiculously-aggressive schedule they set for themselves? No way! Why didn't someone tell me? This fact certainly hasn't been flooding my newsfeed with relentless hyperbole.
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
There's not many other systems that use eye tracking, although there are a few; I'd like more specifics about what Musk was referring to. There are some weaknesses with eye tracking, like how it doesn't work with sunglasses on, but beyond that.... I just don't think periodic torquing of the wheel is enough (at least it's better than just a pressure sensor... since you can fall asleep while still putting pressure on the wheel).
On the other hand, I have trouble buying into the other claim that it was "too expensive". Given that Tesla included a selfie camera on the lower cost model, the Model 3, which could be used for eye tracking.
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
The Cadillac one works with sunglasses. There is a video on YouTube somewhere of a journalist trying it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Quite a while ago. To build a confused autonomous driving system that actually isn't and needs drive involvement is just dangerous because the human element is just going to switch off. Musk has this bizarre belief that the crashes so far can be blamed on the driver (gee, thanks). It's a scam. They (Musk in particular) are trying to give the impression that self-driving cars are here when they are anything but.
You are very happy because the house of cards has not collapsed...yet
If you design a system thinking people will use it wrong, and then have a warning label, but an excessive amount of people use it wrong. Likely you'll be punished.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Meanwhile, longs keep making money and shorts keep losing their shirt, cycle after cycle of doom-and-gloom short-selling, followed by none of the doom-and-gloom panning out and the company successfully continuing on its exponential growth pace. Who exactly needs to examine their underlying assumptions here?
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
Rei posting at 0742 Iceland time.
Claims don't sleeps until after 0300
The energy boosting powers of the Elon Musk bukake energy drink is impressive.
As soon as human driving becomes completely and entirely safe, then I will settle for self-driving cars to simply be more safe than humans.
Yeah but that's not autopilot, a lot of cars have exactly that,lane assist, cruise control adaptive distance control, automatic braking etc, not sold as 'autopilot' by anyone except tesla and certainly no 3k upgrade to "full autonomous" vaporware packages available.
U need a finance course. In a capital intensive business, where you're spending $3 or $4bn a year, a 6 month 'delay' in reaching manufacturing scale promised, while spending Capex at 100% or more of the scale required is a big ass issue. You'll run out of cash before you have a chance to hit the breakeven point.
So yes you'really an investor, but wait for your stock to get diluted in the next equity or conveetoble warrant sale. You could just wait to buy in at a lower price point at that next funding round, rather than hold on now.
Not to mention, a question investors forget is if the likelihood of a triple in tesla stock is greater than a 50% drop, and whether that risk is anddequately rewarded. Tesla has 3 vehicles for sale and some future projected products. There anddequatelyre more than 20 new competing evs coming online in the next 18 months, and tesla will only have 1 mid market vehicle in that time. The model s is already aged out and has declining yoy rates of growth. Model 3 isn't far behind
What house of cards? I've had my Model S for 5 years and it is by far the most reliable car I've ever owned. It is better than new with the relatively common and painless software improvements. People are amazed when I tell them its over 5 years old because it is still like new.
What I see is a battle of hype vs. misinformation from large market forces who have a great deal to lose when everyone realizes that except for long trips, electric cars are superior in every respect.
The fact is that the Tesla cars while not perfect are excellent products made by people who care. I cannot say that about the Ford, GM, Honda, Nissan and Toyota cars I've owned. Most of my conventional cars were designed to fall apart and then be replaced after 5 or 6 years. If success is measured by a company producing great product that stands the test of time than Tesla can't lose.
Greed is the root of all evil.
How about because it is an accurate description based upon past use. Autopilot in planes and ships, they will take you on the course set, they will not avoid shit or take complex routes, you set them and away they go
That describes the autopilot of a DC-3 or the Chris Craft cabin cruiser of 1954..
The problem is that when the general public thinks "autopilot" what they visualize is the automation and glass cockpit of a modern jumbo jet ---- which can be programmed for collision avoidance and complex routing.
You see this all the time on Slashdot. The geek quotes from the dictionary or tech manual and ignores common usage. It is when the geek turns to marketing that the habit becomes dangerous.
1) "I usually don't go to bed until after 3 AM, unless I'm covering shifts."
2) Stop stalking me. Seriously, there's something wrong with you.
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
Here, a gift for you: link
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."