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'Bird Scooters Are Ruining Venice' (latimes.com)

Nate Jackson, writing for LA Times: Although I would like to avoid them, I have no choice but to consider them because I live in Venice, which is where the first Bird (electric scooters) hatched and where the flock is thickest. Bird's founder and CEO, Travis VanderZanden, says, "We won"t be happy till there are more Birds than cars," so I guess I am supposed to get used to it. [...] Suddenly, almost daily, I have some near-collision with a Bird scooter rider -- he who sees nothing but the phone in his hand, thinks of nothing but the next text, and hears nothing but whatever music he has chosen to pump through the white inserts protruding from his wasted ears. He who, despite all that, is still traveling up to 15 mph on the street or sidewalk.

Aside from road safety, which has been discussed thoroughly in this and other papers, Bird is also tearing away at the fabric of our Westside society. In Venice and Santa Monica, where Bird is centralized, thousands of people live on the streets, which helps explain the scooter's popularity. With a press of a throttle button, one can be whizzing along, leaving it all in a blur. Bird calls this solving the "first/last mile" problem. Problem? Is it a problem for a twentysomething to walk a single mile? To most residents, Venice itself is the solution: The weather is perfect, the ocean is a stone's throw away and each block has something interesting to see. But to walk through Venice is to understand that human misery exists just outside the frame of your Instagram feed.

36 of 375 comments (clear)

  1. Venice by ledow · · Score: 5, Funny

    "The weather is perfect, the ocean is a stone's throw away and each block has something interesting to see."

    Yes... generally the ocean.

    It also stinks to high heaven in the summer and is full of rats.

    I never got the appeal of Venice past, say, a single postcard photo.

    1. Re: Venice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You could read the article before making an inane post like you just did.

    2. Re: Venice by saloomy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sounds like a shitty entitled asshat complaining about others expressing their right to drive a scooter, and he doesn't like them.

      His assertion about phones in hand is just put me off as well. The scooter drivers have a right to be on the road. If they don't follow local laws (cell phone driving laws) then ththey police will deal with it. You don't get to decide what others use. So yeah, used to it.

      If I'm wrong, let me know and I will RTFA.

    3. Re: Venice by tylersoze · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well in his defense, when using the word "Venice" in connection to anything but Venice, Italy, it should have a qualifier. Like when I say "I went to Paris" people assume Paris, France and not Paris, Texas. Hell my first thought when reading the headline was "how would they use scooters in Venice".

    4. Re: Venice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      His assertion about phones in hand is just put me off as well. The scooter drivers have a right to be on the road. If they don't follow local laws (cell phone driving laws) then ththey police will deal with it. You don't get to decide what others use. So yeah, used to it.

      The problem is not Bird itself. I think it's a great idea. But I live in Bird territory, and I can tell you that a good portion of the time, it's the riders themselves that are the entitled asshats. They have no problem riding on crowded sidewalks, running stop signs, and general other fuckery (2 people riding on a Bird at the same time) at 15 MPH. There have been several collisions with pedestrians that I've read about (read Nextdoor in a Bird neighborhood). In the last week, there was a Bird collision with another car, as well as one that happened a few months ago.

      The police are *sort of* dealing with the problem, but they're pretty busy handling many other issues.

    5. Re: Venice by mileshigh · · Score: 4, Informative

      The scooter drivers have a right to be on the road.

      They're on the sidewalk.

      This is really a problem with LA traffic law & culture since it's legal to ride bicycles, skateboards and other "exclusively human-powered" vehicles on the sidewalk. This has led to the public perception that anything goes on the sidewalks.

      Technically, scooters are powered and thus aren't allowed on the sidewalk, but LA cops aren't keen to wade into this so they just ignore the entire issue -- like they pretty much ignore anything that happens off the roadway. Scooters, electric-assist bicycles, etc rule the sidewalks.

    6. Re: Venice by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Make it legal to clothesline anyone riding a powered vehicle on the sidewalk.

      Problem should sort itself out soon enough.
      =Smidge=

    7. Re: Venice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I drive a low sports car. One day, when a friend was riding with me, a guy on a road bike was in the middle of the road riding at a moderate speed - but well under the speed limit. There was a bike lane that he was supposed to be riding in, but even when I honked at him he refused to pull over. So my friend said to pull up beside him when the oncoming traffic cleared and to hold my speed. I thought he was going to yell at him, but instead when I pulled up beside him my friend gently squeezed the bikers ass which completely freaked him out, causing him to loose his balance and wipe out pretty bad. Needless to say as soon as I checked the car behind me didn't hit him I sped off.

    8. Re: Venice by Kierthos · · Score: 3

      Hell, we have the same problem here, but with normal scooters/mopeds. I live near a university, so there are a ton of these rental scooters being driven by college kids. And they're regularly riding two to a scooter, sometimes three to a scooter. Maybe one in ten of them are using the provided helmets. They run red lights or stop signs. They drive on the sidewalks.

      And yeah, they get in accidents. I've seen, several times in the last year, some idiot scooter driver being loaded into the back of an ambulance because they though they were invulnerable, or weren't paying attention, or whatever.

      That being said, there are also people way past college age riding these things as well, and they aren't showing that much more proficiency with them, or understanding of basic safety.

      --
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    9. Re: Venice by Alypius · · Score: 4, Funny

      afoul or afowl?

    10. Re: Venice by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Informative

      Since this is modded up as "Interesting", I'm going to assume that the parent is not making a joke and point out that it's the wrong Venice. Nothing to do with Italians, and that's why it's in the LA Times.

    11. Re: Venice by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was thinking "They have homeless in Italy too?"

      Around 48,000 or so, a pretty small share of the overall population, about half the share compared to the US.

      Isnt that a purely American problem?

      There are 48 times as many homeless in Nigeria than the US, and 14 times as many in South Africa. But it's probably less fun to make fun of homeless Africans, isn't it? Don't worry though, there are other groups you could make fun of too. In Indonesia, there are 6 times as many homeless as in the US. In Haiti it's about 4 times more. Russia is nearly 10x, Venezuela nearly 4x. In Grenada over half their population is homeless, I guess a hurricane that destroys 90% of the homes will do that. Maybe there's a joke you can work into that.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  2. I can't have been the only one by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    who read the title and pictured pigeons wheeling around the Piazza San Marco.

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    1. Re:I can't have been the only one by MS · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Me too...
      In Venice it's forbidden to feed pigeons, as they shit everywhere and their excrements corrode the historical buildings.
      While scooters (called vespas in Italy) are nowhere to be found, as they aren't watertight - you use gondolas to travel around.

  3. I am sick of California by bistromath007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every week there's another article about some ridiculous new shit literally thousands of people are doing that's ruining everything, and it's absolutely never relevant outside either LA or SF. When are we sending these assholes back to their home planet?

    1. Re:I am sick of California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      They're in California. Home planet found.

    2. Re:I am sick of California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, Austin just passed new rules for scooters & ride share bikes because they were literally dropped in the middle of the sidewalk. With that new tech, no need for racks. Drop it ANYWHERE. The authors point is true, it may start in LA/SF, but if the test marketing proves out, it is dispatched everywhere. See Uber & AV testing as just 2 examples.

    3. Re:I am sick of California by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Every week there's another article about some ridiculous new shit literally thousands of people are doing that's ruining everything, and it's absolutely never relevant outside either LA or SF.

      The last story along these lines was just three days ago... and it was about Washington, DC, which is several thousand miles away from both cities you mention.

      You may have gotten that impression, though, because many of the companies causing these "problems" are headquartered in California's Silicon Valley.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  4. What in the world is a bird scooter? by mejustme · · Score: 5, Informative

    Looks like these are electric rental scooters. You unlock one with an app on your phone, take it out for a spin. Once you reach your destination, you leave it somewhere else to charge and use the app to lock it up, thus making it available to someone else. https://www.bird.co/how

  5. Rude summary by steveha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I skimmed the article so you don't have to.

    * Bird scooters are electric scooters that one rents using a mobile app.

    * Bird scooters are becoming common, and the writer complains he has a near-collision "almost daily" with someone driving a Bird scooter unsafely.

    * Homeless people are a problem. Bird, along with all other tech companies, is making this problem worse, because they buy real estate and build new buildings.

    * People who work for tech companies ignore homeless people. Zipping along on a scooter makes this easier. Therefore, Bird scooters are "tearing apart the fabric of our Westside society" (this is a word-for-word quote). I guess Westside means the Venice Beach area of Los Angeles, which he just calls "Venice" in this article.

    * Because Bird scooters are rented using a mobile app, homeless people are unlikely to be able to rent them, and Bird should feel bad about that. (However, the writer also opines that nobody needs a Bird scooter, since it's no real trouble to walk a mile instead of riding a scooter for a mile.)

    It's a stupid article and I feel stupider for having read it.

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    1. Re:Rude summary by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guess Westside means the Venice Beach area of Los Angeles, which he just calls "Venice" in this article.

      It actually is called just "Venice", as that is the name of this neighborhood of Los Angeles. Venice Beach is the actual beach, not the name of the neighborhood.

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    2. Re:Rude summary by steveha · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just skimmed your summery and my IQ dropped with 7 whole points. I can not imagine what the whole articlke would do to me. Well not after reading your summery anyway.

      I read the whole thing.

      My mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it.

      Daisy, daisy, give me your answer true...

      --
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  6. Street or sidewalk? by Misagon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Where I live, scooters and bicycles go in the bicycle lane. And if there is no bicycle lane, they go on the street. Never the sidewalk.

    Set that rule. Then make sure to enforce it, and that includes letting the riders know that you do enforce it.
    Then you would not get scooters where they don't belong and the most annoying, distracted scooter-riders won't like to ride in the most car-congested streets anyway.
    Problem solved ... ?

    --
    "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
  7. Re: Is it because all the homeless by reanjr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're homeless and need a way to get between the overpass where you sleep, the minimum wage job across town, and soup kitchen, then scooters or something else might be pretty well needed.

  8. It's not the scooters. by iCEBaLM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This happens with technology quite frequently. It's not the technologies fault, it's the people's fault.

  9. More Birds than cars by steveha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The founder of Bird is quoted as having said he wants there to be "more Birds than cars".

    I'm pretty sure what he wants to see is people riding mass transit and using a Bird to get from the transit to their home. This might actually work in Los Angeles, but I am dubious about the idea in any place where winter involves snow and ice.

    It would work great if we all moved into giant underground cities, but if we do that, I want to see slidewalks as shown in The Caves of Steel .

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  10. "First and last mile" by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Problem? Is it a problem for a twentysomething to walk a single mile?

    I dunno about Venice, but here in the U.S., apparently, it's hard enough to get people to even go outside let alone walk a mile, so yeah maybe it's a problem.

  11. O-M-G! by sootman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Self-absorbed assholes... in Los Angeles?!? Say it ain't so!

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  12. Bird scooters are great by Luminary+Crush · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This article is a ridiculous NIMBY hit-piece. Change is hard but inevitable. Anything that gets people out of cars in hyper-traffic'ed LA is a win for me. With these, and also similar bikeshare systems, people can easily get around an urban center that does not have good public transit (ahem, Westside LA, or most of LA for that matter) quickly and without a car. These take cars off the road and have zero emissions. LA is slowly losing it's unhealthy love affair with cars, but those in the throes of their passion for large metal boxes won't give up their prized possession's street privilege without a fight.

  13. Yes there is a last mile problem by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look, I walk at least a few miles every day for fun, and generally prefer to walk anything under a few miles rather than driving. So I get what you are trying to say.

    But lots of people may not have time to walk (even at a brisk clip, it's 15-20 minutes to walk a mile). Or the weather may be such you'd be really sweaty by the time you got somewhere, which is not very professional. There are lots of valid reasons why someone might want some motorized transport to travel more quickly.

    Since the homeless have nothing but time, I don't really see why you are trying to make a point they cannot use these scooters too...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  14. I just got back from a 2 week trip to Pune, India by gosand · · Score: 3, Informative

    And they laugh at your puny scooter "problem".
    It was quite fascinating to see a sea of scooters weaving in and out of traffic, with seemingly no rules. Yet I only saw one get bumped, and one near-accident. There was no road rage, they all just coexisted. It was like one of those schools of fish in the ocean: somehow they didn't run into each other.

    Now, not that the scooter problem in Venice isn't a problem, it may be very annoying. This was an op-ed piece meant for the local population... how it made a tech "news" site like /. is beyond me. Well, actually not not that surprising at all. News, we hardly knew ye.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  15. Re: Is it because all the homeless by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    50% of people on welfare are single mothers over 18 working minimum wage jobs to support themselves and their children. It's a fact. Look it up.
     
    Just because you don't see it from inside your bubble, does not mean these people do not exist, just means that you're not interacting with them on a daily basis.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  16. Re:You forgot just one thing by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

    WTF is a bird scooter?

    A well a don't you know about the bird?
    Everybody knows that the bird is the word.
    Ba-ba-ba bird bird bird, bird is the word.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  17. Venice? Not Venice, Italy. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Venice? Why not avoid confusion for 99% of human society and say, Venice, California in the title? Most people in the world don't know Venice, California exists.

    Venice, California is a small town of 40,885 people heavily affected by the extreme pollution and extreme traffic jams in the Los Angeles area. The Los Angeles metropolitan area has 18.68 million people.

    Venice, Italy is a world-famous city that began soon after 400 CE. The metropolitan area has 2.6 million people.

    1. Re:Venice? Not Venice, Italy. by Rakarra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've seen this before when a larger/non-regional publication (like Slashdot, or a national news website) takes a more regional story (this is from the LA Times, and people there are at least as likely to think when they hear 'Venice' the neighborhood they live in as they are a city in Italy). The regional assumptions and understandings are lost, and it's really the job of the editor to add additional context to the story summary if it goes to a wider audience. I'm not even sure if the editor knew that the Venice referred to here was Venice Beach.

      Also, I might be getting curmudgeonly in my older age, but just taking someone's quote and turning that into the story title seems like bad form. Click-baity and non-journalistic.

    2. Re:Venice? Not Venice, Italy. by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Informative

      I had never heard of Bird scooters before today and it was not until I got to the 2nd paragraph that I realized this was about California navel peering, not something that might be interesting going on in Italy. The reason I thought it might be interesting was because I figured that for something from Italy to make Slashdot it would have to be interesting.
      I am aware of the existence of Venice, CA., but that is not what I think of first when I read "Venice".

      --
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