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NASA Says Humans Are Causing Massive Changes In Location of Water Around the World (desertsun.com)

Using measurements from Earth-observing satellites, NASA scientists have found that humans have dramatically altered the location of water around the world. "The team of researchers analyzed 14 years of data from NASA's twin GRACE satellites and studied regions that have seen large increases or decreases in the total amount of freshwater, including water in lakes and rivers and water stored in underground aquifers, soil, snow and ice," reports The Desert Sun. From the report: The scientists examined precipitation trends and other data to determine the most likely causes of these huge losses and gains of water around the world. Their findings in a new study reveal that of the 34 "hotspots" of water change in places from California to China, the trends in about two-thirds of those areas may be linked to climate change or human activities, such as excessive groundwater pumping in farming regions. In eight of the 34 regions, the researchers said the trends reflect "possible" or "probable" impacts of climate change, including losses of ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica, precipitation increases in the high latitudes of Eurasia and North America, the retreat of Alaska's glaciers and melting ice fields in Patagonia.

They ascribed changes in 12 regions to natural variability, including a progression from a dry period to a wet period in the northern Great Plains, a drought in eastern Brazil and wetter periods in the Amazon and tropical West Africa. In 14 of the areas -- more than 40 percent of the hotspots -- the scientists associated the water shifts partially or largely with human activity. That included groundwater depletion combined with drought in Southern California and the southern High Plains from Kansas to the Texas Panhandle, as well as in the northern Middle East, northern Africa, southern Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
The first-of-its-kind study has been published in the journal Nature.

99 comments

  1. Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Intensive agriculture, water reservoirs, flood protection walls, hydroelectric plants, Three Gorges Dam, Aral Sea, etc. We are massively changing our environment since the dawn of civilisation, this is not surprising at all. A more interesting study would look into the impact these changes have on biodiversity and (micro-) climate.

    1. Re:Anyone surprised? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, this is nothing new.

      There is a fantastic documentary called Cadillac Desert. One of the comments said said the title was mislabeled; it should have been called: "Mulholland's Greed - The rape and pillage of Owen's Lake" :-(

    2. Re:Anyone surprised? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Agree; nobody should be surprised, and I don't think anyone is disputing, that humans, through land-use change, have caused some massive changes to water distribution.

      California, for example, is likely fucking itself out of an agricultural future, if it keeps going the way it has been. Nobody wants to give them more water.

      The only part I dispute is that they can reliably tell what aspects of that may be genuinely attributable to "climate change".

    3. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Agree; nobody should be surprised, and I don't think anyone is disputing, that humans, through land-use change, have caused some massive changes to water distribution. California, for example, is likely fucking itself out of an agricultural future, if it keeps going the way it has been. Nobody wants to give them more water. The only part I dispute is that they can reliably tell what aspects of that may be genuinely attributable to "climate change".

      California and some of its neighbouring states are pumping dry an aquifer that was laid down during the last ice age and that hasn't been replenished at anything like the rate it was back then for the last 10.000 years. As for what aspects of the examples they name may be genuinely attributable to "climate change", when glaciers are melting away I'm pretty sure that's "climate change", when a region is struck by drought after drought at previously unseen frequency, I'm pretty sure that constitutes "climate change" and not a something created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

    4. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NASA Says White Males Are Causing Massive Changes In Location of Water Around the World

      Forgot the Straight and Christian there.

    5. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was a great documentary and an even better book!

    6. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Follow it up with the films Chinatown and Rango. Go from historical narrative to fiction... but which is weirder and makes for a better story?

      Owens Lake (now valley), Mono Lake, Hetch Hetchy Valley... then look at how much the San Joaquin Valley has sunk since 1900. Scary stuff. But as long as Angelenos and Franciscans can get their lattes and avocado toast, everything is all good, am I right?

    7. Re:Anyone surprised? by Mordaximus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I dispute it too. They've got the grand total of 14 years data and they're drawing possible conclusions about "climate change"?

      I'll clue the folks in at NASA: the Earth has been around for ~4 billion years. When your satellite has been up there for a billion years or 2, then get back to me with your analysis.

      As long as clues are being passed around, where exactly, even in the damned summary, does it say they used the satellite data to draw the conclusions? The FIRST WORDS of the quote from the article indicate otherwise. From what I'm reading only one coffee in, they seem to have used the satellites to identify regions showing said changes THEN used other data from those regions to draw their conclusions.

    8. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's the Joooooos!!!!!1!!ONE!!!!

    9. Re: Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, most of the Valley's products are sold out of state, and the beneficiaries are the local landowners who may live anywhere at all in the world. In my case, the "neighbor's farm" is owned by a Japanese Doctor's group.

    10. Re:Anyone surprised? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      California, for example, is likely fucking itself out of an agricultural future, if it keeps going the way it has been. Nobody wants to give them more water.

      If nobody wants to eat fresh vegetables, that's fine, but this is where they are produced for a reason. Over 50% of the food we eat in the USA is produced in California. Those vast fields in the midwest mostly produce export crops, and corn for fuel ethanol which is grown continuously and with synthetic fertilizers that literally destroy topsoil and turn it into an inert hydroponic growth medium. California is the best place in the USA to produce vegetables, period, the end. Mexico is the next-best place nearby (it's actually too hot to grow a lot of things there) but then you have to pay more for shipping, and produce is picked even less ripe and gassed even more to ripen because it has to travel further. It also further restricts varieties, because some travel better than others.

      But by all means, don't give California water. We'll give you back fifty dollar tomatoes.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re: Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Agree; nobody should be surprised, and I don't think anyone is disputing, that humans, through land-use change, have caused some massive changes to water distribution.

      Not only are they surprised, and in denial, they are indignant at the thought. You can see them already in this thread.

      There's a reason for so much bluster and anger at liberals and environmentalists, it provides a lot of noise to shout out the reasoned discussion.

      California, for example, is likely fucking itself out of an agricultural future, if it keeps going the way it has been. Nobody wants to give them more water.

      Give them water? People want to take California's water and give them back a load of piss. The state has had to sue Arizona, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada for their carp. And it isn't the only state with disputes. See the Florida/Alabama/Georgia imbroglio. Or the disputes over the Great Lakes.

      And there is more outside the US. You should try to get away with your hyperfocused obsession with the Golden state and broaden your perspective.

      And go look up the Ogalla Aquifer or the Dust Bowl for examples of Agricultural self-fucking. Or the Desert of Maine.

      The only part I dispute is that they can reliably tell what aspects of that may be genuinely attributable to "climate change".

      Do tell us the nature of your dispute.

      Without specifics to address, your objection amounts to little more than useless sputtering denial.

      Sorry, but while you may think you have expressed a genuine concern, you actually did not. You may want to reconsider your own approach.

    12. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You realize that science has developed various tools for looking far into the past, right? Heard of ice core samples? Carbon dating?

      Did you know that you can tell how many years a tree has been alive by counting the rings? Amazing stuff!

      The climate is changing. Humans are pumping billions of tons of CO2 and other gasses into the atmosphere every year. If you think it's not having an effect, you're a complete moron.

    13. Re:Anyone surprised? by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it used to be the beavers' job in the ecosystem to impound and preserve the world's fresh water. But we humans killed most of them some time back, so now it's up to us to do the job. Too bad we're generally not as good at it as they were. But give us a few million more years, and maybe we'll get better at it. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    14. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the price of tomatoes goes up to fifty dollars or anything like that, the midwest will start growing them, just fine. I'm very skeptical that the midwest would have problems growing more food oriented crops. Maybe it would take some time to fix the soil or whatever, but that doesn't mean California is the only place that can or will grow vegetables. That is a hell of a claim, and you aren't providing any evidence for it. Just because the midwest mostly grows corn and soybeans right now doesn't mean that is all they could grow.

    15. Re:Anyone surprised? by CodeHog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "California is the best place in the USA to produce vegetables, period". Right, and we were all a lot worse off without CA growing vegetables. Wait, didn't the CA food industry started in the 1920s? It might be a good place to grow them year round but there are more variables to growing vegetables such as, wait for it, adequate water supply.

      "Those vast fields in the midwest mostly produce export crops, and corn for fuel ethanol which is grown continuously and with synthetic fertilizers that literally destroy topsoil and turn it into an inert hydroponic growth medium." A good percentage is also grown for fed and seed. It was roughly 40% fuel to 36% feed 5 years ago, the rest exported. So I was a bit off on the seed part but still have to grow seed corn. Ask DeKalb, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Cool hats btw.

      Also, there's been plenty of advancement in agriculture that doesn't destroy the topsoil and helps minimize usage of fertilizers and weed / insect killer. No till is gain popularity for example. Bio-engineering of the plants is another area that has been advancing.

      Tomatos, green beans, cucumbers, peppers all grow fine in the Midwest soil, not year round but that's why people use to can vegetables and have cellars. Grow big gardens, harvest and store for the winter until next year. If the CA vegetable industry were to drop off things would be rough for a few years but people would figure it out. And IMO the Midwest would be in good shape quicker than other areas.

      --
      Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
    16. Re: Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Climate change denier!" is the modern version of the old accusations by Nazis of "Jew!" and has the same general purpose; to subjugate a population to the will of the powerful. Bill Nye the Fascist Guy and a few politicians have even seriously suggested criminalizing opinions opposing AGW. What next? Forcing those who question AGW to wear a red thermometer cloth patch in public?

      AGW proponents = the Fourth Reich.

      What we have here is an example of a modern case of accusing others of being a "Nazi" in your own post. What next, going to confuse their Birkenstocks with Jackboots? Maybe say that wanting to be fresh air is like the Anschluss? I know, you can confuse Silent Spring and Earth: In the Balance with Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Triump of the Will!

      No wonder your moral compass is broken, you're standing to a giant mass of irony.

    17. Re:Anyone surprised? by Phasedshift · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The issue isn't "tomatoes", most of the agricultural water use in California is for nuts, not tomatoes. This is important because (most) nuts travel quite well and can be packaged for transport easier, so costs to import are quite a bit less than other crops. This is also ignoring the fact that if California keeps doing what it is doing, they will be forced to stop anyway due to cost/depth of groundwater due to depletion.

      So yes, please stop using as much water for crops such as nuts, and instead grow them somewhere else that gets more rainfall to support them.

    18. Re:Anyone surprised? by Mab_Mass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Those vast fields in the midwest mostly produce export crops, and corn for fuel ethanol which is grown continuously and with synthetic fertilizers that literally destroy topsoil and turn it into an inert hydroponic growth medium.

      It isn't just export crops and ethanol fuel. These vast fields area also growing huge amounts of animal feed that is trucked around the country to concentrated animal feeding operations and converted into protein and waste manure.

      There is also a lot of it that is shipped over to chemical processing plants to make all of your favorite food additives.

      The troubles with this kind of farming run deep.

    19. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've got the grand total of 14 years data

      I have to ask this, though I fear you won't tell me.

      When people say things that stupid, is it just an act or are they truly that retarded? It's so weird, because you're able to put complete sentences together, you figured out how to login to a website, you probably know how to tie your shoes, and you might even be able to name 2 or 3 presidents who served more than 14 years ago.

      It's like if my dog, who is almost too stupid to live, were to do a perfect job of baking a cake and then go right back to not understanding what "bring me the ball" means. If you can write a sentence, there's no way you would really think humans only have 14 years of observations. It's not believable that you could have basic life skills yet also be that moronic. And yet whenever you people are cornered on shit like this, you never laugh and say "ok, you caught me. I knew my character had slipped up on consistency, and someone was going to go 'hey, wait.'" That never happens.

    20. Re: Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, didn't the CA food industry started in the 1920s?

      The eating habits of America, in fact, the world have changed since then.

      If you want to change things, great, but do state that outright.

    21. Re: Anyone surprised? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      We know what we let out increase temperature and we know we have let out more and more and in the case of CO2 that more of it is in the atmosphere.
      The CO2 levels are facts. There's nothing to figure out there. Same with the carbon acid in the ocean. Same with tan lotion and reefs. Same with gases from spray bottles and the ozon hole.

      Where we lack evidence would be in the "it's not human made!" area.

    22. Re:Anyone surprised? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      There's no reason for another state to give California water, when a large percentage of California gets tons of rain. It's simply a matter of internal distribution.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    23. Re:Anyone surprised? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 0

      They've got the grand total of 14 years data and they're drawing possible conclusions about "climate change"?

      Humans prefer stories where things that happen have a cause, and where their own species is important.

      (I saw a better worded version of that recently and would quote it exactly and credit it, rather than paraphrasing it, if I could find it just now.)

      Sure people move water around. They've been doing that since the dawn of civilization - both to raise more food and to stabilize empires by creating drought in rebellious provinces.

      But assuming the changes you see over the first few seasons of a new type of observation are all human caused (rather than, for instance, random, part of weather systems, caused by other animals {like beaver dams or the Elephant/Rhino/Hippo cycle}, etc.) smells of both hubris and alarmism. Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    24. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The climate is changing. Humans are pumping billions of tons of CO2 and other gasses into the atmosphere every year. If you think it's not having an effect, you're a complete moron.

      Now you've got me thinking. In an 8' x 8' x 8' room, if someone were to pump car exhaust in at the same proportional rate that we are pumping it into the environment, how many people who claim that climate change is fake would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and sleep in that room day in and day out?

      I don't actually know how long it would take for that room to become dangerous to sleep in, but that's not the point. Point is, when someone who is "so sure" that climate change is fake is faced with such a choice, they're probably going to become a lot more interested in what the science has to say before they agree to sleep in that room. And I would consider that a net win.

    25. Re:Anyone surprised? by niittyniemi · · Score: 1

      I have to ask this, though I fear you won't tell me.

      Of course, you're wrong on that count AC like you are on everything else.

      When people say things that stupid, is it just an act or are they truly that retarded? It's so weird, because you're able to put complete sentences together, you figured out how to login to a website, you probably know how to tie your shoes, and you might even be able to name 2 or 3 presidents who served more than 14 years ago.

      2 or 3 presidents? Of Uganda? Or do you mean the office in your shithole country? As currently occupied by a large, orange sack of shit who currently holds the world 'holding your breath whilst underwater' record....according to my mate, Vladimir. I can tell by your tone, that you must be enormously proud of him and his charming wife with her, somewhat interesting, former "professional" life in Eastern Europe.

      The pair of them only increase the high regard that us dodgy, clearly inferior, foreigners hold your nation in.

      Let me fill you in on a few facts AC. There are some folks in this world, quite unlike you, who are known as "grown-ups". They can be recognised because they are quite prepared to go head-to-head with anyone and they don't need to abuse the cloak of anonymity that /. provides to do so.

      Unfortunately for you, you are quite obviously doomed to never grow a pair or even have sex with anything other than your own right hand.

      Slashdot Editors: You need to fix this shit. I regularly get marked "troll" when I post logged-in with opinions and facts, just because people don't like my opinions. Mods who do that, need to be kicked into touch. Ditto, merkins like the one I've just replied to. I'm pretty sure he's got an account, so just close it and firewall the muppet off.

      Otherwise, I'm just going to be another one who can't be bothered posting at all. I don't need you but you need me, at the end of the day. Whatever you may think of my opinions, they're a fucksight more substantial than the thin gruel provided by a bunch of ACs lacking gonads.

      --
      The Machine stops.
    26. Re:Anyone surprised? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      California, for example, is likely fucking itself out of an agricultural future

      They could start by kicking out of the nut growers. Nuts are ridiculous in the amount of water required. For example, almost 5 gallons for a single Walnut. Gee, I think I could live without walnuts. And CA grows 99% of all walnuts produced in the US. And 99% of almonds. And 98% of pistachios.

      CA's aquifers are being sucked dry for the profits of these companies.

    27. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'm surprised. 70% is still in the oceans. So, not a massive change. Enough hyperbole.

    28. Re:Anyone surprised? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Tomatos, green beans, cucumbers, peppers all grow fine in the Midwest soil, not year round but that's why

      ...they're grown in California. Thanks for playing!

      people use to can vegetables and have cellars.

      Less homes in the midwest have cellars than ever before, and people want to eat fresh vegetables all year. That was the whole premise of my comment. Thanks for ignoring reality.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    29. Re:Anyone surprised? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Too bad we're generally not as good at it as they were. But give us a few million more years, and maybe we'll get better at it. ;-)

      Instead, we learned how to trick them into doing it where we want. No need to get better at it if we just have them do it for us.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. California and China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where all the problems originate from.

    1. Re:California and China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Where all the problems originate from.

      Don't be so quick, I can think of at least one (orange coloured) problem that originates in New York.

    2. Re: California and China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn some of you are obsessed with Hillary, someone who is no longer in political office and has been largely out of the public eye for what, about a year and a half?

    3. Re: California and China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing how the Democrats continue to bring her up.

  3. Scott Pruitt says it's no problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    He can get one of his bodyguards to get him a bottle from the 1st class galley. No problemo.

  4. Nearly Certain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NASA needs to justify it's existence. I really have major doubts about any of the shit they toss out as fact.

    1. Re:Nearly Certain by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Right! Right? Who the hell do NASA think they are? Rocket scientists!?!?

      Good thing president pussygrabber has cut off climate research funding for these liberal scumbags.

    2. Re:Nearly Certain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't fall flat on your face tripping over NOAA while spreading your propaganda.

  5. Let's blame the ones who aren't here no more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I say blame the dinosaurs; all that stomping around, and yuuuge appetites, tearing trees limb from limb. Now we're feeling their impact, and taking the blame?

  6. Re: HILLARY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Who the hell mods this garbage up? It's offtopic and there are far more useful things to discuss. For example, I live in Nebraska and these issues are relevant here. A lot of the state's water comes from the Ogallala Aquifer, and we are using it too rapidly. The groundwater is essential for agriculture from the Sandhills to the caprock in west Texas. Depleting the groundwater is causing subsidence of the land and surface streams are also drying up. With the exception of the Sandhills, it's very hard for precipitation to infiltrate all the way to the aquifer. Recharge is difficult, and we are using groundwater faster than it can be recharged. A lot of it is for irrigation and growing crops where they shouldn't be grown. I know that Nebraska is the Cornhusker State, but we just don't get enough rain to support growing corn in most of the state.

    It's quite an important issue, and if you really must discuss politics, you can discuss water rights agreements and who really owns the water on your property. Kansas sued Nebraska over the streamflow in the Republican River. I believe it has changed, but at one point, it was illegal in Colorado to retain the rainwater that falls on your property, and that you don't really own the water. It's far more interesting than these rubbish posts about Trump and Hillary, and you can even still argue about politics if you want.

  7. California by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just look at California, there was never much water and what is there gets mainly exported as vegetables, fruits, nuts, and wine. The rest is wasted on an insane number of golf courses.

    1. Re:California by acoustix · · Score: 1

      This was my first thought as well. Look at water that is diverted from neighboring states into California, specifically southern California.

      We have large amounts of people moving into deserts, then we move water resources there causing issues where the water should be.

      Duh...

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    2. Re:California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, California is preserving its precious fluids by exporting other States' water.

    3. Re: California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This was my first thought as well.

      That may be very revealing then.

      Look at water that is diverted from neighboring states into California, specifically southern California.

      You have it backwards, the neighboring states divert water from California for their own usages.

      That's how the geography of the region works.

      We have large amounts of people moving into deserts, then we move water resources there causing issues where the water should be.

      There are water Issues around the world. Try the Great Plains. Remember the Dust Bowl? Atlanta. Ever hear about the disputes that Georgia has with Tennessee, Alabama, and Florida? Miami. Just look at the Okachobee. Move outside the US and look up Capetown. Or Barcelona. Rome. Cairo. Moscow. Calcutta. Sydney. Beijing.

      Don't just blather on about California. You might be myopic in your monomania towards them, but a wider focus may offer enlightenment, but even if not, it would let you escape the appearance of bias more easily.

    4. Re:California by houghi · · Score: 1

      To support the Californian farmers in periods of drought, I buy as many almond products as I can. I am doing my part, how about you?

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re: California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only significant source of water in California that naturally originates outside is the Colorado, so the question is what right does California have to water in it? That's the only diversion taking place. California is seeking to build pipelines to take water directly from out of state, though.

    6. Re: California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That question would be addressed by reviewing the Colorado River Compact, which like similar agreements, covers the division of water. With a further agreement with Mexico a couple of decades later. No different than Florida/Alabama/Georgia or the Great Lakes.

      However, there is no serious plan for out-of-state pipelines for Water for California that come from the state itself, the ones that exist are merely proposals with no serious merit to them, many of which come from Alaska, British Columbia, or Saudi princes who still like talking about icebergs.

      I suggest ignoring the nonsense. Rush Limbaugh's sputter is hot air, not reality.

    7. Re:California by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      Just look at California, there was never much water and what is there gets mainly exported as vegetables, fruits, nuts, and wine. The rest is wasted on an insane number of golf courses.

      Hey! - Golf is great exercise for people who would otherwise sit on their ass drinking margaritas all day...

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  8. Proposed solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time I read such an article, I find something glaringly missing. The elephant in the room. These kinds of stories always fail to mention what exactly do these environmentalist whackos offer, as a solution?

    For all humans to kill themselves? Just to protect Mother Nature?

    1. Re:Proposed solution? by hyades1 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not all humans. Just people like you. Or maybe don't kill yourself. Just quit acting so much like a dick and do some basic, easy stuff...like using a water bottle instead of buying endless half liter bottles and throwing them away in parks when you're done with them, or maybe walking half a mile instead of taking the car.

      But we know you're too selfish and lazy to do things like that. It's a lot easier to just yap at people who actually do try to make a difference.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re: Proposed solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a whacko.... However i don't think killing ourselves is necessary.

      A gradual decline in population should suffice.

    3. Re:Proposed solution? by hey! · · Score: 1

      While I appreciate that's it's frustrating, you can't expect to always know what to do about a problem until you've studied it.

      You seem to think we're better off being unaware of things we aren't prepared for yet. But I think it's better to know than to continue to act under false assumptions. Even if we can't fix a problem, we can reduce our exposure to it.

      I think the real problem comes with things where we actually could do something useful about. Those are the problems people fight rather than admit.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  9. Why is Kansas so windy? by Type44Q · · Score: 2

    and the southern High Plains from Kansas to the Texas Panhandle

    Q) Why is Kansas so windy?

    A) Because Oklahoma sucks and Nebraska blows.

  10. There is no shortage of water in the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have a shortage of available energy. Desalinating seawater is proven technology.

  11. Take that b-c! by sabbede · · Score: 1

    To quote a great woman - Mother nature is out of her league. We'll decide where the water goes thank you very much.

  12. Stupid study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    El Nino - hello?

    Droughts and rainy stretches come and go. 14 years is a tick of the clock.

  13. Global warming solved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can we move to the water crisis if we haven't even solved global warming?
    Must be just for the votes.

  14. Re: HILLARY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The ingenuity of the free market will surely come up with an abundant alternative to water.

  15. The biggest part of the problem is groundwater by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    Take a look at an atlas. See how much we love to live near the sea? Those large cities radiate political force that draws in water from lakes and rivers thousands of miles inland, forcing inland populations to pump local groundwater.

    If coastal cities would desalinate their own local water supplies, the lakes and rivers would now be available for use by those living inland.

    1. Re:The biggest part of the problem is groundwater by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If coastal cities would desalinate their own local water supplies, the lakes and rivers would now be available for use by those living inland.

      Instead, most coastal cities are probably going away. Especially given that the water is rising and the land is sinking. I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:The biggest part of the problem is groundwater by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      At currently foreseeable values of ocean rise, we're not going to lose any entire cities except possibly for New Orleans. We will lose the lowest-lying parts of the coast, which to a city the size of, say, Los Angeles, is just a shaving.

    3. Re:The biggest part of the problem is groundwater by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      At currently foreseeable values of ocean rise, we're not going to lose any entire cities except possibly for New Orleans. We will lose the lowest-lying parts of the coast, which to a city the size of, say, Los Angeles, is just a shaving.

      When the sea level rises a small amount, storm runup rises a larger amount.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. Now that we know the cause by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What can we do about it?

    1. Re:Now that we know the cause by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First we need a violent overthrow of the corporations and governments that are ruining our world

  17. From My Cold Dead Hands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're gonna need alot more money to keep buying Canada's water.

  18. Dam humans by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    Dam everywhere.... ;-P

  19. Holy Shit! Holy Shit! by bigdavex · · Score: 1

    It's an emergency! Quick, defund NASA!!

    --
    -Dave
  20. No farms, no food by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    It's amazing to see how often different environmental chicken littles clash.

  21. Re: HILLARY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How exactly does any of this affect the central Plains? There aren't large bodies of water near Kansas and Nebraska to make desalination viable. Waste water treatment works for population centers but won't help with agriculture. A lot of water is lost to evapotranspiration, which neither desalination nor waste water treatment will help with. One option is to reduce evapotranspiration by limiting irrigation, growing crops that require less water, and growing crops with lower transpiration rates. The issue with corn is that it requires a lot of water and has a high transpiration rate.

    It is reasonable for the government to regulate a shared and limited resource like the Ogallala Aquifer. That's why states regulate the drilling of wells into ta the aquifer, to ensure it's used in a way that's beneficial to the public. Government regulation isn't inherently good or bad. The Colorado restrictions on rainwater collection seem absurd to me. Some of the issues we face are because water is allocated inefficiently. Government has a role, but regulations need to be thoughtful in order for them to be effective.

    Regarding new technologies, water is somewhat scarce in the central Plains because it's a semi-arid region. A lot of the water comes from precipitation from overnight thunderstorms during the summer, snowmelt from the Rockies, and groundwater. The snowmelt is highly seasonal, which is why there is a dam on the Platte River and why Lake McConaughy exists as a reservoir.

    We do have a lot of wind that can be used to generate electricity. I can envision using wind power to drive atmospheric water generators and pull the water out of the air during the summer. However, even this has potential consequences for water law. If done at a sufficiently large scale, areas downwind may experience lower humidity, which could affect the precipitation they receive, cause climate change, and limit the potential for those areas to also use atmospheric water generators. If Kansas implemented atmospheric water generators on a large scale, it could draw some water out of the air before reaching Nebraska. I could envision Nebraska suing Kansas over this, much the same way Kansas sued Nebraska over stream flow in the Republican River.

    These are complex issues and cannot be addressed with the simple idea that the government is bad and the free market is good.

  22. Damn it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dam it! Dam it! Dam it!

  23. Re:Donald Juicyass Drumpf will die in prison thoug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what do you think Mueller is working on?

  24. Water management by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    California, for example, is likely fucking itself out of an agricultural future, if it keeps going the way it has been. Nobody wants to give them more water.

    If nobody wants to eat fresh vegetables, that's fine, but this is where they are produced for a reason. Over 50% of the food we eat in the USA is produced in California. Those vast fields in the midwest mostly produce export crops, and corn for fuel ethanol which is grown continuously and with synthetic fertilizers that literally destroy topsoil and turn it into an inert hydroponic growth medium. California is the best place in the USA to produce vegetables, period, the end. Mexico is the next-best place nearby (it's actually too hot to grow a lot of things there) but then you have to pay more for shipping, and produce is picked even less ripe and gassed even more to ripen because it has to travel further. It also further restricts varieties, because some travel better than others.

    But by all means, don't give California water. We'll give you back fifty dollar tomatoes.

    That is only half the story, the other half of it is the stupidity of growing water intensive crops in places that get less then 5 inches of rain every year and irrigating these crops with ground water. Ground water is not an infinite resource, especially in relatively arid places like much of California is. There is a well known photo of Joseph Poland of the U.S. Geological Survey who used a telephone pole to demonstrate where a farmer would have been standing in 1925, 1955 and where Poland was then standing. By then the land in the San Joaquin Valley had sunk nearly 30 feet and this was in 1977. Since then much more water has been pumped out of the ground, apparently on the assumption that there is an infinite supply since California does not regulate ground water like surface water. All over the state people are finding themselves drilling hundreds and even thousands of feet for ground water and when they find it what they pump up are ground water deposits laid down 20.000 year ago when mastodons and sabre toothed cats still roamed the landscape. Land subsidence due to ground water depletion has caused sinking bridges, cracking canals and buckling highways, torn runways to name but a few problems and repairing them has cost the California taxpayer billions of dollars. This whole issue is about stupid water management and waste which is something that should be of particular interest to California farmers and it should be very much in their interest to support water management reform seeing as how their entire existence stands and falls with proper water management.

  25. Re: HILLARY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the ironies when people say "CO2 is plant food" is that this isn't particularly true for grass-derived staples (wheat, millet, barley, etc.) that are often relatively drought resistant, but is true of maize, which is not very drought resistant. Hence, there is a lot of work ongoing to splice maize genes into wheat to boost productivity on this side, and wheat genes into maize. There is often a weed to outcompete either, though, partly because crops are optimised for tasty bits, not overall growth.

  26. You learned it TODAY & already demand solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your fuckup is that you think people shouldn't share information unless they know everything. (And by everything, I don't even just mean objective facts, but they also have to know everyone's values and make the decision about how to weight different peoples' subjective opinions against each other.)

    Let's say you suddenly noticed a new, big, weird-shaped mole on your arm. The next day, it's even bigger. The next day, even bigger.

    A sane person would go see a doctor, the doctor would do a biopsy, and maybe the doctor would recommend a treatment. And a different doctor might recommend a different one.

    But you would say "damn, I don't know how to treat it" and then maybe you would start researching how melanoma works, what to do about it, etc and after a decade or two of educating yourself, you would decide, "Ok, I'm going to cut it off. That's the solution." Keep it a secret until you've figured out how to solve it. (Spoiler: you're dead before you complete your plan.)

    See the problem here? The information has value by itself, even without a solution. Someone else might be able to solve it. Anyone can try to solve it. Even the people who observed the information can later try to think up some solutions. But they do it in parallel with everyone else who now has the info. Sometimes the best "solution" is to share the information so that lots of people can work on a solution.

    That's what you're missing. YOU obviously didn't know about the water problem, and yet you're able to think about what might you do about it, even though the researchers didn't already tell you what to do. You aren't required to be an obedient sheep.

    Them not giving you a whole answer isn't the elephant in the room. Your bizarre expectation that people shouldn't share information without already knowing the best thing to do with the information, is the elephant in the room.

    "Oh no, a bank robbery is happening. Quick, I need to run home and get my gun. WTF is that stupid person doing, calling the cops? They should have already told the robbers 'wait here', gone home, got their gun, come back, shot the robbers, and then called the cops."

    In addition to that, you have an extra layer of elephant-sized stupidity. You really only want solutions from environmental wackos? Didn't you realize that you called them wackos in the same breath? Are you sure you wouldn't want a solution thought up by a non-wacko?

    Anyway, my little snowflake, instead of demanding that someone else give you a solution on the very same day that you learned about a problem, like a freeloading hippie, maybe take some responsibility for yourself and your destiny. Get a job? Think? Put in some effort instead of just crying and whining that you want your parents to make the bad thing go away?

  27. Moving water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because everyone seems to be carrying around a bottle of water resulting in changes to the location of large amounts of water.

  28. Re:Donald Juicyass Drumpf will die in prison thoug by OakDragon · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    what do you think Mueller is working on?

    Resume

  29. But maybe on the Pacific rim by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    We have a shortage of available energy. Desalinating seawater is proven technology.

    But as the plume from Fukishima arrives on the west coast of North America, it will have to be RE proven - to show it can also adequately remove radioactive particles.

    Especially long-lived isotopes and/or those that embed themselves in sensitive areas and processes (such as long-lived Strontium 90, which substitutes for calcium, embeds in bones, and irradiates the blood-making tissue that is normally protected by its surroundings, or short-lived radio iodine, which both produces birth defects and concentrates in the thyroid and provokes things like the auto-immune diseases Hashimoto's (where the gland is destroyed) or Graves (where the antibody triggers a receptor, turning thyroid hormone output full-on and provoking the thyroid to grow and produce still more).

    Desalinazation probably can also remove such stuff. But it might require tweaks, and additional expense, to go to very low levels on these extra, problem, "salts".

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  30. Golf courses no longer a problem. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The rest is wasted on an insane number of golf courses.

    Actually, golf courses are going out of fashion and out of business (or just "closed" in the case of government-owned ones) in California.

    Newer generations mostly aren't taking up golf and older ones are finding other things to do or just getting too old to enjoy it. Meanwhile the cost of water (for the horribly thirsty institutions) has skyrocketed and regulatory bodies are rejecting applications when misguided city councils or developers try to install one, rather than, say, parks with low-water landscaping) to fill their "open space" requirements.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  31. Global Wobbling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm shocked that the issue of Global Wobbling hasn't been addressed!

    If you move too much water from one spot to another, the earth will start wobbling. And anyone who's ridden a motorcycle knows that when you start wobbling, only bad things happen.

    Stop Global Wobbling.

    Tax Water!

    1. Re:Global Wobbling by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I'm shocked that the issue of Global Wobbling hasn't been addressed!

      "Global Wobbling" is a real. It's called precession. It's even been linked in changes from the Sahara oscillating between desert and grassland.

  32. Tomorrow... by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    Today: NASA scientists have found that humans have dramatically altered the location of water around the world.
    Tomorrow: Trump removes NASA funding for the study of water location around the world.

  33. Impressive by llamalad · · Score: 1

    Liet Kynes would be proud.

  34. Re:Donald Juicyass Drumpf will die in prison thoug by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

    And yet, 100% of republican'ts declare Clinton guilty after being impeached.
    Which only MEANS accused.

  35. Re: HILLARY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    trump promised you cornhuskers the fucking moon and now he's fucking you over. How is that not more important? Do you live in those Sandhills cause that's where your head seems to be.