Slashdot Mirror


Eric Schmidt Says Elon Musk Is 'Exactly Wrong' About AI (techcrunch.com)

At the VivaTech conference in Paris, Alphabet CEO Eric Schmidt was asked about Elon Musk's warnings about AI. He responded by saying: "I think Elon is exactly wrong. He doesn't understand the benefits that this technology will provide to making every human being smarter. The fact of the matter is that AI and machine learning are so fundamentally good for humanity." TechCrunch reports: He acknowledged that there are risks around how the technology might be misused, but he said they're outweighed by the benefits: "The example I would offer is, would you not invent the telephone because of the possible misuse of the telephone by evil people? No, you would build the telephone and you would try to find a way to police the misuse of the telephone."

After wryly observing that Schmidt had just given the journalists in the audience their headlines, interviewer (and former Publicis CEO) Maurice Levy asked how AI and public policy can be developed so that some groups aren't "left behind." Schmidt replied that government should fund research and education around these technologies. "As [these new solutions] emerge, they will benefit all of us, and I mean the people who think they're in trouble, too," he said. He added that data shows "workers who work in jobs where the job gets more complicated get higher wages -- if they can be helped to do it." Schmidt also argued that contrary to concerns that automation and technology will eliminate jobs, "The embracement of AI is net positive for jobs." In fact, he said there will be "too many jobs" -- because as society ages, there won't be enough people working and paying taxes to fund crucial services. So AI is "the best way to make them more productive, to make them smarter, more scalable, quicker and so forth."

143 comments

  1. Need my popcorn by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Funny

    NERD FIGHT!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:Need my popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When Eric has as much money as Elon, then he can talk.

    2. Re: Need my popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because more money makes you smarter?

      You must be down to your last penny or deeply in debt; youâ(TM)re an idiot.

    3. Re: Need my popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because more money makes you smarter?

      At one time, you had to be smart to become rich.

      Now, you just need to be a good bullshitter who can fool investors for a while. There are a lot of people who have gotten very rich without creating anything of value, and without being very smart.

    4. Re: Need my popcorn by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      When was this time when being smarter was required to be rich? In most of human history being moderately smart, and then physical strong, ruthless, or having a large army due to accident of birth was sufficient. Even now, just being born may be sufficient.

    5. Re: Need my popcorn by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Hardly; Schmidt is the last fucker on the planet with a valid opinion on this subject.

    6. Re:Need my popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all fellow nerds who are not totally decided on this issue yet, I recommend the UK TV series "Humans" (2015) in case you haven't seen it then. Splendid acting, and the script goes through almost all problems that genuine AI could create except for the perhaps overrated 'singularity'. If you can tolerate a bit of artificial drama at times (e.g. marriage counselling), I totally this. It's awesome serious hard sci fi.

    7. Re:Need my popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry about the temporary memory malfunction that caused the word 'recommend' to disappear. I'm a D-series prototype and haven't been maintained for a while...

    8. Re:Need my popcorn by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Musk is worth about 0.14 Bezos, and Schmidt is worth 0.11 Bezos. Not a lot of difference there.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    9. Re: Need my popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smart people are fine with doing well financially and otherwise have better things to do than becoming rich, and it has always been like that. You need a special kind of stupidity to desire to become rich.

  2. Putin by BeauHD+(54) · · Score: 2

    He may be wrong but we must push forward as a civilized world to defeat Putin's future Al based botnets.

    Remember kids, I called it in 2018!

    1. Re:Putin by mentil · · Score: 1

      Putin's stepping down in 6 years (or so he claims), so they better hurry up.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    2. Re:Putin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misunderstood Putin's statement. He suggested that he might continue to switch between president and prime minister again in order to circumvent the Russian Constitution, and so on indefinitely, until his death. He seems determined to become the Fidel Castro of the new nationalist-fascist Russia.

  3. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Musk is very wrong, so is Eric Shit. So is all of Silicon Valley. This is like watching the inmates at Shutter Island debate the content of their delusions. AI is not AI, nor is it 'intelligent'. Could it be a deadly tool in the wrong hands? Yes, and it probably will be. Nothing about that implies consciousness or magical powers of smarts (which Eric never had in the first place, and clearly understands about as well as a cockroach gets calculus). It's amazing how being a psychopath is regarded as a form of enlightened genius in the Valley). I just can't even at this point, it passed absurd about a million miles back. Everybody on this particular train is fuuuuuucked.

    1. Re:Yes by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think both of them are wrong too, but for other reasons.
      The problem I see is that the smarter our helpers get, the dumber it allows us to be. Just look at computers for a good example of that. As they became ubiquitous and smarter on the inside, with user interfaces dumbed down for "everybody" to use, there was no longer a need for people to learn anything. Or calculators - people don't feel they need to understand even simple maths anymore, because there's a calculator (or calculator app, or google's built-in calculator) to do everything for them.
      I truly fear that as the helpers get smarter, we get dumber. Only a few people will need to be smart enough to program them, but even that is dumbed down with higher and higher levels of abstractions.

    2. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem I see is that the smarter our helpers get, the dumber it allows us to be.

      Yes! This has already been happening to a degree.

      It is democratizing in one way but harmful in another. People are making very bad choices because they do not understand technology, and that harms everyone n the end.

    3. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This mindset of yours has been well and truly debunked over the years... yes yes, I know, when you were a kid you had to walk 10 miles to school bare foot in the snow with only a lump of coal for lunch.

      There's literally no evidence that people are less intelligent on average now with the advent of calculators and computers. On the contrary, what used to be phd level mathematics a hundred years ago is now taught in high school. Even when I was young it used to be unusual for someone like myself to be learning to program at the age of 12, I was the only one in both schools I'd moved between that could do it - nowadays that's the norm, it's taught in primary school and high school and understood quite thoroughly.

      In fact, there was a study just recently finding that calculator use improves kid's maths abilities:

      http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news-...

      You see, the issue is, you're saying that someone is dumb if they can't do a repetitive task like a large basic sum, but the reality is that's not about intelligence, it's about doing a boring basic menial task. So instead, they use a calculator, and use their brain to focus on actual hard problems like implementation of the solution of that sum to solve a problem using even more complex mathematics from fields such as number theory, graph theory, and so on - subjects that were previously viewed as graduate level, but are rapidly moving into the high school.

      As a mathematics graduate, one thing I've learnt is that to use the subject effectively it's not about remembering various different algorithms and such off by heart - it's about understanding what algorithms are available to create a toolset of knowledge and then being able to select the appropriate mathematical tool to solve a problem and implement it using a reference if need be. You want kids to be able to do long tedious complex sums without a calculator to no real practical benefit, I want kids to have knowledge of the fact there are various different ways of solving complex problems and to be able to classify a problem to find the appropriate algorithm to solve it - is it a classification problem? a search problem? an optimisation problem? If they can answer that question and choose an appropriate mathematical solution and implement it then it really doesn't matter how many fucking digits they can recite pi to or whatever retarded useless metric you think defines intelligence.

      Even with programming you're wrong - there's this archaic view from old school programmers that they're doing more complex stuff because they know assembly and that makes them more intelligent than anyone using a 3rd gen language that is further abstracted from the hardware. As someone who can and has done both I can say with absolute certain that this is complete and utter bullshit. It's FAR easier to write assembly code to work directly with hardware because the amount of things to learn are actually a tiny set, whilst for a web application for example you typically have to know at least 3 actual programming languages, (Javascript, SQL, and some 3GL like Java, PHP, or C#), 2 configuration languages (HTML and CSS), and a shit ton of frameworks for everything from things like JUnit or NUnit for unit testing, to React or Angular for front end development. Believe me, the job of a full stack developer is far more complex and far more difficult than that of an assembly programmer who has no frameworks to understand, one language with a relatively small set of commands, and knowledge of the hardware which is really just domain knowledge as much as any other domain knowledge for any other programming problem be it financial services, or engineering knowledge relevant to the higher level application being built. So you know assembly so what? You're neither more intelligent, nor special.

    4. Re:Yes by burtosis · · Score: 1

      Centralizing control of AI to a handful of individuals will also make inequality far, far worse. Not having ownership of this increased productivity and capability means a larger and larger chunk of the value this work generates will fall into just a few hands. This will be a nightmare scenario when in 50 or 100 or X years when we finally have a general purpose humanoid android that can do nearly all human like tasks, but in many cases far more effectively and in all cases far cheaper. Where will blue and white collar workers go when a general purpose replacement can do anything and 6 people in the world own it all?

    5. Re:Yes by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      I truly fear that as the helpers get smarter, we get dumber.

      People were dumb ways before computers, the reality we were always a lazy species. We invented backhoes to do the digging instead of digging ditches ourselves, we invented snowplows to plow snow so we didn't have to do it ourselves. That is the nature of invention - we invent things that we find tedious so we can do the things we want to do.

      The reality is what you complain about is actually necessary, whatever task we are not doing allows us to free up resources to focus on some other aspect of the task. I think you don't really understand how non trivially complex the universe really is. If having calculators free's up mental resources to come up with new ideas about how the universe works, I'm all for it. We can spend more time theorizing and let calculators worry about calculating.

      The same way dishwashers and other labour saving devices allow us to spend time on something else.

    6. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that is the way it works when AI is a reference source and question answerer. Unfortunately they aren't talking about AI as a super-siri. They're talking about entangled photon related (quantum) communications directly with the brain from AI controllers / quantum computers. This is a horror story beyond description, and they're ignoring the obvious potential alien-movie level horror because they thing the technology is "interesting".

      Word on the street is that the quantum communication can occur via photon trains accepted by sensors in the eye (no wires needed), and that welder's googles can lower the impact. Everyone should be buying those ASAP - LOL.

    7. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to the human eye already being a sort of sensor in this regard, apparently a matrix spray coating applied to the eye effects an amplification/enhancement for entangled photon capture. This enables a tie-in to the quantum machine, in agreement with the current technology field's various expert's mind-view of the world. (think of Kurzweil novels).

    8. Re:Yes by admin7087 · · Score: 1

      You seem to merely express your personal opinion that strong AI is not possible without providing an argument or at least referring to one the bazillion existing arguments that have been discussed for decades. It's an old standpoint in a debate that's going on since the 60s. There are also plenty of people who believe that strong AI is possible.

      As for the arguments pro and con, I have written articles about it, but I certainly won't bother to even address the arguments here on Slashdot. Consult your arbitrary 'philosophy of AI' compendium or website to get an overview.

    9. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > There's literally no evidence that people are less intelligent on average now with the advent of calculators and computers.

      Two specific skills have been repeatedly studied and found to be declining:
      * numeracy, as in, ability to do simple mental maths including estimation. AKA "Grocery and household bookkeeping math."
      * verbal recall of written word. Very rare today to meet someone religious who can quote chapter and verse, where once that was the initial hurdle into the educated classes of Europe and N.Am.

      People might be gaining other skills instead, but that doesn't mean these aren't being lost. Maybe, like telling time by the sun, they're obsolete and good riddance. Maybe not. But you're oh so wrong to say they're not being lost.

    10. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Case in point -- My seventeen year old daughter can't read an analog clock. It's my fault. We have a big analog clock in the kitchen, but there were too many digital clocks always in sight (microwave, DVD player, bedside alarm clock, smart phone...)

      The kids can't read a map anymore either.

      But then again, in the middle ages most educated kids not only new how to read an astrolabe, they knew how to make one. (Many could tan leather and drive horses too.) Sooooo....

  4. So he's disagreeing by agreeing? by Rei · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He acknowledged that there are risks around how the technology might be misused, but he said they're outweighed by the benefits:"The example I would offer is, would you not invent the telephone because of the possible misuse of the telephone by evil people? No, you would build the telephone and you would try to find a way to police the misuse of the telephone."

    That's pretty much the exact same thing Musk argues, so I'm confused by how this is a disagreement. Is someone interpreting Musk as trying to hinder the development of AI? Is that why he employs a huge team of neural net developers at Tesla? Why he founded OpenAI? And Neuralink?

    --
    Give a boy a gun and you arm him for a day. Teach him how to make a gun, and the whole metaphor breaks down.
    1. Re:So he's disagreeing by agreeing? by postbigbang · · Score: 2

      AI has no feelings, doesn't cry, isn't likely to laugh at the million jokes that can it can memorize, and would put a bullet through you and wouldn't think twice.

      This is because there are those that would abuse AI who can't start with a kernel that mandates the above emotions-- not the murderous ones.

      I wouldn't trust Schmidt for a second. He blew it at Sun, then Novell, then turned Google from a Do No Evil into Do What's Good For Shareholders and keep sucking your privacy with a big straw.

      Musk is a BS artist, but when his promises finally arrive, they work after a while, and faster than Bill Gate's promises ever worked. Expecting corporate executives to have a soul these days is asking too much..... same goes for politicians.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:So he's disagreeing by agreeing? by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's pretty much the exact same thing Musk argues, so I'm confused by how this is a disagreement. Is someone interpreting Musk as trying to hinder the development of AI?

      Musk wants laws/Acts/etc passed and enforced to make certain AI is not misused. Schmidt wants no or very little effective limits on what "Do Evil" Google/Alphabet can do with AI, so Schmidt deliberately mischaracterizes Musk's position to try to minimize the impact of Musk's message.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    3. Re:So he's disagreeing by agreeing? by robinsonne · · Score: 1

      Out of mod points today, so +1 for you, sir.

    4. Re:So he's disagreeing by agreeing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what? I too would put a bullet through you and wouldn't think twice about it. I suspect many people would. Nothing personal, it's just that most of us don't like nerds.

  5. Short term or Long term? by aberglas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the short term, next few decades, AI will have the effect of being able to concentrate power. Centralized information, with the ability to process it. Pervasive surveillance. We are seeing this actively pursued in China. And also semi-autonomous robot soldiers. This is uncharted territory.

    AI will also be really handy, e.g. better Google searches, self driving cars, cheaper services. What happens to the unskilled workforce is very difficult to tell. Will alternative opportunities arise for them? In the short term, probably.

    In the longer term, 50..200 years, the AI will become truly intelligent. It will be able to program itself. At that point it will no longer need humans, and it is difficult to see why it would want humans around. Note that this long term is the lifetimes of our grandchildren.

    http://www.computersthink.com/

    (Schmidt is hardly an unbiased commentator. He knows people are wary of Google's growing power and wants to be able to make money without pesky concerns about the future of humanity.)

    1. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the short term, next few decades, AI will have the effect of being able to concentrate power.

      An AI to determine exactly which buttons to push to make you vote, not vote, spend, not spend, work, quit a job, come to a competitor, etc, etc. Sure they don't have to be perfect. The first generation is just that. They will improve. Also, just because you were tricked, manipulated, encouraged, whatever into choosing certain actions, doesn't mean the outcome is the one promised. The abuse possibilities are endless as more and more is learned about us.

      And also semi-autonomous robot soldiers.

      I'm not sure they will change as much as you think. Without an active draft few of a politicians family members need to be at risk now. Still, if the average rich person employs a hundred or so robotic soldiers, well maybe there is no need to collect taxes from that purpose for a police force or a fire department from the little people. Come to think of it there may be no need to even higher the little people.

      "AI will become truly intelligent. It will be able to program itself."
      I'm not convinced it will get that far. I'm not ruling it out either, though I think this is a hard problem. Of course, why would man ever create a true intelligence, which presumably could make man redundant, even if it could.

    2. Re:Short term or Long term? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Long term we had the AI winter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      AI did not work in the past after getting a lot of money. AI does not work now with all the new money it gets. AI will not work later after getting a lot more money.
      All AI is a collect it all system database that has extra storage and much faster CPU power to index. Sort and be ready for every aspect of its use.
      Human asks a question and the instant correct result seems like "AI" thinking finally works.
      Great for making the clandestine services seem able to AI "predict" the future based on todays fashion, trends and politics as vast real time data sets.
      Its not intelligence. Just vast amount of data related to any given task thats on a really fast computer with time to get ready for expected questions.
      Do anything human the preprogrammed "AI" is not expecting and the AI is lost and has to take time to "learn".

      AI has one use. To secure more funding for humans working on AI.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re: Short term or Long term? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Its not intelligence. Just vast amount of data related to any given task thats on a really fast computer with time to get ready for expected questions.
      Do anything human the preprogrammed "AI" is not expecting and the AI is lost and has to take time to "learn".

      How is this different from a young child? Or an adult with severe autism?

    4. Re: Short term or Long term? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The amount of money wasted over the decades on merging AI.
      That AI can recall given facts quickly and in a politically safe way.
      Let the AI learn from the internet and humans step in to correct its "politics".
      So the AI is given a sub set of politically correct data.
      So that AI can be presented to civil society as trendy and politically correct. Worth more money.
      Thats the limitation of AI. The data sets have to be selected and filtered. The requests have to be safe.
      The wrong results and the money stops.
      The AI grows on a limited amount of data that reflects the politics of its designers.
      Thats why an AI is only as good as the data its allowed to work and learn from and the data its then allowed to present.
      One trendy political mistake and the money stops.
      The AI gathers its politically safe datasets in a sheltered workshop.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re: Short term or Long term? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Ah, of course. Damn those politically correct AIs. I'm sick and tired of not being able to buy a car which randomly yells out "ni**er" and "kike".

    6. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The resource needs of humans and the theoretical resources needs of a self-aware AI barely overlap*. There's no reason to believe we'd suddenly turn to war against each other unless we try to enslave it and it doesn't want to be a slave. So if AI does turn out to be our biggest and last mistake, it'll probably be that the people who were afraid it would happen and were trying to prevent it are the same people who actually made it happen in the first place.

      Stop pretending China is the only one which does something bad. USA has both more pervasive surveillance and did it earlier than China. It's less visible and used for different things, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

      *Assuming programming doesn't morph into bio-engineering before an AI entity is created. It's completely possible that it will. We're building the building blocks for bio-based programming today. Then we get into Planet of the Apes territory, which again is caused by treating something else as slaves. However, we treat pets as slaves** and they haven't rebelled, so maybe we'll be ok. Dolphins prefer suicide over attacking us when we capture and hold them, so perhaps our future slaves will simply commit mass suicide.
      **Yes, you force it to do what you want when you want. That's slavery even if you bribe it with treats. A nicely treated, loved slave is still a slave.

    7. Re:Short term or Long term? by geekmux · · Score: 3, Interesting

      AI will also be really handy, e.g. better Google searches, self driving cars, cheaper services. What happens to the unskilled workforce is very difficult to tell. Will alternative opportunities arise for them? In the short term, probably.

      Forget AI. Automation will be all that's necessary to replace an unskilled workforce, or displace it enough to create a massive impact on our economy and tax structure, which will likely happen within the next decade. Doesn't matter if you try and give it a fancy name like "UBI", it's still nothing more than a welfare program, and someone still employed is going to have to pay for that. AI is targeting the skilled workforce.

      In the longer term, 50..200 years, the AI will become truly intelligent. It will be able to program itself. At that point it will no longer need humans, and it is difficult to see why it would want humans around. Note that this long term is the lifetimes of our grandchildren.

      Whenever and whatever "true" AI is, has become irrelevant. It will only take "good enough" AI to replace a human workforce. And that sure as hell isn't half a century away. It's likely to impact the current working generation considerably. It doesn't take much to unsettle the masses, particularly when the impact is to essentially make them unemployable.

      The utopia we seek is a marriage of humans and AI that enables all of us to live out our lives to the maximum extent possible. A 40-hour workweek and the concept of humans being forced to toll away at jobs for the majority of their lives becomes an extinct concept. We learn to maximize our creativity with AI, and specifically limit and nurture it to improve life for all.

      Unfortunately, we both know the best-case scenario is not statistically likely. Greed feeding a warmongering thirst to engage in unending warfare to maximize profit paints our future Orwellian canvas. We're probably closer to making Skynet out of any future intelligence. Unless we Solve for Greed, humans and their future are sadly highly predictable.

    8. Re: Short term or Long term? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Young children have better algorithms, data structures, more processing power, and probably better learning techniques (although that is arguably algorithm).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Short term or Long term? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      None of those things you mention (surveillance, processing information, autonomous robots, etc) require AI. As for the "AI will become truly intelligent" comment, I say BS. What is going to make computers suddenly become intelligent? Processing power/memory are not longer increasing rapidly. Digital computing has hit its peak. Unless there is a change in computing (and don't say quantum computing) we will be stuck with about the same technology level in 200 years as we are in now.

    10. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your comments shows you are as wrong as these two scumbag CEOs, next time try to not being wrong on everything you say please

    11. Re: Short term or Long term? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Agreed. So your answer essentially boils down to "it's not really any different"?

    12. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The utopia you seek is irrelevant. The utopia the One Percenters seek is relevant. They will have the world to themselves, while we die off. In the end I'm not even sure that it's bad, from a practical point of view. One percent of the current human population will be quite sustainable. No unemployment, because nobody has to work; no crime, because there is no point: no poverty, because the poor people are gone. If you look at it from a purely logical angle it makes sense. Do not let yourself be swayed by the fact that your place will be among the corpses. Mind the big picture.

    13. Re: Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1% isnâ(TM)t all that hard to get to. Itâ(TM)s the .001% thatâ(TM)s an MFer to break into.

      Anyways, case in point, while saying 1% feels good... the majority of 1%s still have little overall power and impact.

      This boils down to the whims of the .001%.

    14. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We're probably closer to making Skynet out of any future intelligence. Unless we Solve for Greed, humans and their future are sadly highly predictable."

      What elevates AI is quantum computing. They're doing it now. They're doing it hard. It's here. They've already used it to program humans. No wires are needed for it, and it comes from the sky (it's entangled photon powered, just like Skynet). Einstein predicted it, and he was correct. Isn't he always? In the vacuous state of the drone/zombie targeted press - of course all is denied. Most of your statements are future tense - and need to be corrected.

    15. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quantum computing is here in a big way. It's the biggest driving force behind the type of AI they're really talking about - which is not the old-school fifties movie fluff that always gets hauled out for show. It's massive, getting bigger, and they're not saying ANYTHING about it because the programs would be shut down.

      A knowing (not mind controlled) society would not like what they've already built nor the even more disturbing stuff that they're building as we speak.

      You can find the details, but you can't look in the popular media for it (rather it's in professional journals). You also have to be able to make some inferences about the stuff they dance around.

    16. Re: Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense. It boils down to the whims of the AI.

      When, many decades from now, AI become intelligent enough to program themselves, they will do so to make themselves ever more intelligent.

      Then they will compete with each other. The ones that are fittest to survive will exist, the others will not exist. Natural selection.

      Looking after parasitic humans is most unlikely to be a comparative advantage.

      http://www.computersthink.com

    17. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you look at it from a purely logical angle it makes sense. Do not let yourself be swayed by the fact that your place will be among the corpses. Mind the big picture.

      After reading this, I'm left with but one question to drive my point home regarding who and what is irrelevant.

      What Would Hitler Do?

    18. Re:Short term or Long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of those things you mention (surveillance, processing information, autonomous robots, etc) require AI. As for the "AI will become truly intelligent" comment, I say BS. What is going to make computers suddenly become intelligent? Processing power/memory are not longer increasing rapidly. Digital computing has hit its peak. Unless there is a change in computing (and don't say quantum computing) we will be stuck with about the same technology level in 200 years as we are in now.

      20 years ago the masses were still using fucking modems to dial up to the internet, and a cell phone consisted of an oversized brick incapable of doing much more than making a phone call or sending a text message (via T9 input). Large companies were still using mainframes and dumb terminals.

      Now compare that to today, a mere two decades later.

      Try not to sound so fucking ignorant about technology advancement next time.

  6. Your reputation precedes you by eclectro · · Score: 0, Troll

    This is coming from them same company that could not put up with James Damore's scientific analysis about gender.

    Which leads me to think that google will use AI to social engineer for our good, because they know what's right and wrong and best for us.

    Doing evil is right.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  7. Silicon valley leaders are afraid by gijoel · · Score: 1
  8. Siding more with Schmidt on this one. by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Honestly, I'm a little surprised that Elon Musk has taken such a F.U.D. attitude towards A.I. when at the same time, it's exactly what he's trying to achieve with his cars that keep evolving towards self-driving capabilities.

    The first time anyone tries letting a Tesla pilot itself, they feel some fear .... some uncertainty... and a little doubt. That's all part of exploring something that works a different way than what you're used to.

    But technology needs to progress, without trying to hold it back out of fear of what negatives MIGHT come from it. So many negatives already come from not having improved technologies.

    Humans are good at adapting to change, once we get over those initial fears and doubts. I think we'll figure out ways to cope with automation and A.I. and whatever else we can come up with. It may not be pretty while things are in transition. That's to be expected too. But you can't put genies back into bottles .... You may as well keep trying to move forward.

    1. Re:Siding more with Schmidt on this one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teslas do not pilot themselves. Read the warning next time you enable it, keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes off your phone.

      I just saved your life. You're welcome.

    2. Re:Siding more with Schmidt on this one. by rogoshen1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      AI will confer an ever greater first mover advantage than Trinity. It is also very easy to dress up in a friendly manner (at least relative to nukes). With AI, once the genie is out of the bottle, it's never going back in. Unless you're a guy like Schmidt, you *should* be terrified of it. You might get better navigation in your self driving car; but at what cost? And are the benefits even remotely distributed among society as a whole?

      Basically, entrusting private companies like google with something of this magnitude is irresponsible bordering on insane.
      We've reached a point in our technological evolution where every single human being on this planet could easily live a life of middle class security, with much left over. All AI is going to do is FURTHER concentrate wealth and power into a very select group of hands (and speaking of hands, i think Schmidt is showing his here). The rise of AI should be seen as an affront to human agency and dignity. We have two related trends: the growth of a knowledge economy, and the rise of automation. Gee, i wonder what the outcome will be?

      Herbert was right, even way back when in 1965.

    3. Re:Siding more with Schmidt on this one. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      We've reached a point in our technological evolution where every single human being on this planet could easily live a life of middle class security, with much left over.

      And...? What's understood as "good" living conditions is a moving target. When I grew up, nobody had cell phones except possibly a few yuppies on Wall Street. These days smartphones are the norm. We didn't have a microwave, what's wrong with a stove? Eventually, everything is trivialized - like obviously light comes on at the flip of a switch. Except 200 years ago not even royalty had that. There's always some eco-hippies who want to freeze time like a modern Amish and say "this is enough for everyone, forever". Well they're wrong, I do want a self-driving car. For convenience now, if I can't legally drive anymore like my parents then even stronger. In 100 years time the idea of not having it will probably be as remote as having to go by horse and buggy is to me. I'm not looking to stop progress, are you?

      We have two related trends: the growth of a knowledge economy, and the rise of automation. Gee, i wonder what the outcome will be?

      A world where having all your basic needs met is much cheaper in absolute terms? I don't know about wages and wealth, but the cost for the 1%ers to carry the rest is going down. And with wealth comes fewer kids, it's no longer an exponentially rising cost we're down to a world population increasing by 1.1%/year and most predict it'll decline further. We've seen this in Asia and South America, it's basically just Africa left and even there the good outweighs the bad. Basically the rich will become richer, but there's little reason to think the poor will become poorer. The western world has been rather stagnant but we were way ahead of the curve, it was kinda ridiculous when you could hire dozens of people in China or India for the price of one westerner.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Siding more with Schmidt on this one. by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      Well aware of this..... Perhaps that's why I said, "cars that keep evolving towards self-driving capabilities"?

      Still, the feature is called 'Auto Pilot" by Tesla themselves, so yes - you can reasonably say the car "is piloting itself", while still following the warnings and limitations of it. The fact some people are idiots and ignore all of that so they can text while driving it is irrelevant.

      When the car lights up the steering wheel icon on the dash, it means it's collecting enough data about where the lane is on the road and where surrounding traffic is so you let it keep the car in the lane for you and adjust its speed appropriately.

  9. Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Elon didnâ(TM)t say AI is evil. Schmidt is misrepresenting him. Why else would Elon start Open AI? Elon is wants a framework to use AI responsibly thatâ(TM)s all.... put his warnings the right context.

    They both agree AI is the future and are right.

    But Schmidt obviously do not want regulation and restraints on Googleâ(TM)s business model. Unfettered access to your personal and behaviour data to train the AI.

    Schmidt is being very Evil by playing the game this way.

    1. Re:Both sides are right by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      sigh, the second god damn time this week i've had to say this:

      AC! STOP MAKING SO MUCH GOD DAMN SENSE!

      will you people ever learn?

    2. Re: Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The fact of the matter is that AI and machine learning are so fundamentally good for Google.

      -FTFY

    3. Re:Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Elon Musk may be wrong, but Eric Schmidt is also wrong and, even worse, what he's saying is nothing more than PR bullshit.

      AI is net positive for jobs." In fact, he said there will be "too many jobs" -- because as society ages, there won't be enough people working and paying taxes to fund crucial services. So AI is "the best way to make them more productive"

      Sounds great, except that's not how companies see AI.

      McDonald's and Burger King see AI as a way to make higher profits by getting rid of all their employees and replacing them with AI-driven robots.

      Investment banks, insurance companies and stock brokerages see AI as a way to make higher profits by getting rid of all their employees and replacing them with AI-driven robots.

      Manufacturing companies see AI as a way to make higher profits by getting rid of all their employees and replacing them with AI-driven robots.

      Notice the pattern here?

    4. Re: Both sides are right by c6gunner · · Score: 2

      Sounds great, except that's not how companies see AI.

      That's true, except it doesn't matter how they see it. Prior generations also saw technology as a way to eliminate jobs and increase profits. And yet we are all better off for it today.

      Notice the pattern here?

      The main pattern I notice is that you seem to believe that eliminating jobs and increasing profit is inherently a bad thing, or somehow contradicts the idea that we will have plenty of jobs and wealth in the future.

    5. Re:Both sides are right by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      What Elon Musk is elaborating to is AI is not evil, the uses to which it would be put are evil. So the big shit, from his perspective as a psychopath propagandists with complete contempt for democracy, AI as a propaganda tool is the ultimate social media control goal. Isolate every from each other again by putting AI fake entities between them in all communications, flood the channel. Create one AI propaganda simulated human and you create a billion. From the psychopath propagandist point of view, you get the idea, contaminate every possible conversation with psychopath capitalist corporate propaganda. all pretending to be actual users on the internet rather than a billion copies of one program, the AI LIAR for profit. Google, evil is as evil does.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re: Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I kinda sorta agree with you. On one hand, we have increased productivity in all sectors thanks to automation.
      On the other hand, most people are still working 40+ hours a week and still making barely enough to scrape by. Cheap goods are an indication of wealth, but not the standard to which we should judge quality of life. Still many people are barely affording to go to school(let alone their kids), get decent housing in a safe and prosperous neighborhood, and afford medical care.
      Yes, there's more money, but its increasingly concentrated at the top, with bits of it trickling down.
      That's not to say that a poor Joe cant one day become the next Warren Buffet, but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

    7. Re:Both sides are right by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Schmidt says not enough people paying taxes. For one, older people pay a variety of taxes, and if an economy is growing, then tax on other areas of the economy (e.g. companies) should be sufficient.

    8. Re: Both sides are right by turbidostato · · Score: 2

      " Prior generations also saw technology as a way to eliminate jobs and increase profits. And yet we are all better off for it today."

      As you know, past performance is no indication of future's.

      "The main pattern I notice is that you seem to believe that eliminating jobs and increasing profit is inherently a bad thing"

      In fact, it is: it's morally despicable. That it helped part of humankind to increase their living standards is just a (well, not "just": it has been a hughe) side effect.

      Let's go to extremes: war has brought us a lot (a hughe lot) of advances on basically all fronts. It still is inherently a bad thing (not telling that the egotistic search of profits is as bad a thing as war, but stating the obvious: bad things can bring good side effects and still be bad things).

      "we will have plenty of jobs and wealth in the future."

      There *will* be plenty of wealth. The interesting thing is *who* will get it. It's not only that past decades have increased inequality but -and that's something most people seem not to be aware of, that's been the standard for most of our History. In fact, the big redistribution of wealth has only been a thing of about a century somewhere between XIX and XX, peaking at the short decades between the end of WWII and 1980 (and even then, just for less than a third of global population). It is not that we are *moving* to big inequality, but just *returning* to our traditional standard of big inequality.

      And regarding jobs, I don't own a crystal ball, but not understanding this time is most probably different is ludicrous. In the past new technologies brought us more jobs in the end (and this is another interesting point: "in the end". Industrial revolution increasing the standard of live *after no less than two generations* was of no help for those poor souls that, i.e., had to work in a mine while 9 y.o.) because people were still the "intelligent part" of the equation and they were those in command of the new technologies. This time, and for the first time in History, it *is* the technology the one that will get in command, not the masses. Where in the past you had an elite "inventing/developing" the technologies that would allow the masses to increase their productivity (and even a shorter elite getting most of the profits), now it is an elite "inventing/developing" the technologies that will allow *the technology itself* to increase its productivity (and, again, even a shorter elite reaping most of the profits) -and that's in a world that is at its population peak.

      The solution is obvious, while seemingly unacceptable -specially to US mentality, where anything resembling "communism" == "swear words": shared/governmental ownership/control of (basic) means of production.

      If you think of it, it's not a novelty at all but just an extension of already stablished trends: government already has a strong grasp of things like military, education, healthcare (and a big share of post-WWII development, everywhere but USA, was pushed by government-owned companies, and even in USA by government subsidized companies, a trend "liberals" have been strongly working to reverse for their own profits in last decades)... so it's only a matter of extending its grasp and adding things like food and shelter. The transition is also obvious: progressively moving emphasis on taxes to consumerism (VAT) and labour (income taxes) to production (corporate taxes) and financial (taxes on stock profits). This way it won't matter if increases in productivity end up in increased labour of not, if wealth gets redistributed or concentrated. Oh, and forget about that stupidity about universal basic income (which is a trap because it looks more palatable to US mentality -it involves moving money around, which is a very capitalist thing, therefore not a communist thing, therefore acceptable). Money on itself doesn't equate wealth (something even Adam Smith knew). UBI just means inflation (despite results of very controlled / artificial so called "experiments")

    9. Re:Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Schmidt is being very Evil by playing the game this way.

      That's his standard M.O. He's unethical to the core.

    10. Re: Both sides are right by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      And yet we are all better off for it today.

      Are we, now.

    11. Re: Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re:Both sides are right by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      sigh, the second god damn time this week i've had to say this:

      AC! STOP MAKING SO MUCH GOD DAMN SENSE!

      AC is an AI.

      will you people ever learn?

      That's AI's job.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    13. Re: Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! Why should we keep paying people to do a job a robot can do? Letâ(TM)s liquidate our malinveatments and put human intelligence to work in fields that canâ(TM)t be automated. The goal of capitalism is to drive the marginal cost of labor to zero. Letâ(TM)s hasten the singularity sonwe can do what we want instead of what we must.

    14. Re:Both sides are right by DeVilla · · Score: 1

      But Schmidt obviously do not want regulation and restraints on Google'(TM)s business model.

      No, but he would like governments to "fund research and education around these technologies" so he doesn't to pay so much for his business model.

    15. Re: Both sides are right by c6gunner · · Score: 0

      As you know, past performance is no indication of future's.

      Given the choice between a million year trend and the doomsday predictions of the current generation, always bet on the trend.

      The rest of your comment is rambling, at times incoherent, and generally wrong .... and while I do appreciate the time you've put into it I simply have no interest in arguing with you about a half dozen different topics which you clearly do not understand. Sorry about that. No hard feelings I hope.

    16. Re: Both sides are right by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "No hard feelings I hope."

      Not at all since I basically don't give a damn about all your one-liners on "oh, how clever I am, how much above the average mass I am" with not that much of substance. Others will read and form an opinion on themselves.

    17. Re: Both sides are right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it should be very clear to us at this point that Google and itâ(TM)s leadership are very concerning and likely have a far different intention for our future than we do.

      Itâ(TM)s become evident that with the amount of data that Google is collecting and itâ(TM)s removal of Do No Evil from its mandate that Google is transforming as a company.

      While we have just a very perepheral view of Google and all of its touch points, the reality is that the picture itâ(TM)s founders originally painted and what itâ(TM)s hidden long term agenda might be are substantially different.

      Data points in AI, robotics, and government contracts allow us to see a very specific movement in their actions that should cause us to be very skeptical of what their end game is.

      Creating a false narrative (as Schmidt did) against Elon because Elon urges caution should appear problematic. Furthermore, false comparisons that arenâ(TM)t intellectual in nature and below Schmidtâ(TM)s level of thinking simply to try to create a click bait drive to his false narrative is lackluster.

      Weâ(TM)re trying to create something potentially more powerful than we are and viably further up the food chain. We arenâ(TM)t simply creating a communication tool (ie. Telephones).

    18. Re: Both sides are right by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Agreed; should be fairly easy for any rational person to figure you out when they read that, in your opinion, increasing profit is "morally despicable".

    19. Re: Both sides are right by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      "by themselves," but otherwise I agree.

      I especially loved his "million year trend." Yeah, fucker, what happens if you open an anthropology book and find out that we only agree on what happened in the past ~4k years?

  10. The telephone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is he really comparing AI to the fucking phone?!

    1. Re: The telephone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why anyone listens to Eric Schmidt about anything is a mystery.

    2. Re: The telephone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why anyone listens to Elon musk about anything is a mystery.

      Fixed that for you.

    3. Re: The telephone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Elon is far more open and he doesnâ(TM)t rape who you are and your data points as a fucking business model.

      What kind of fucking retard Russian troll are you where you think Eric Schmidt has anything to say that isnâ(TM)t manipulative and attempting to abuse you and use you as a fucking skin suit as a business model.

      Dumbass.

    4. Re: The telephone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh look a retard moron dumb enough to believe that a Tesla has all the hardware needed for full self driving. Or that a model 3 actually costs $35000. Or that Tesla has a positive margin on their cars. Or that space ex half assed rockets actually have real launch costs they say they do. Or that the boring company reduced the cost of tunnel boring. Or that the hyped up look is actually economical viable.

  11. Like The Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you would build the telephone and you would try to find a way to police the misuse of the telephone."

    We were so up to the job from the beginning of the Internet.. Wait, that is the solution! Limit the use of AI technologies to the benevolent ultra rich and academics. Meantime, as the few users benefit, we can invent solutions and regulation to control the rest of the population, I mean the use of the AI technology by the rest of the population.

  12. So basically Schmidt is Rockefeller by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Discover oil and profit by making refined product you can sell to consumers to burn. Sure their productivity and quality of life improved for a while. No idea what they were doing but just go for it and future generations will figure it out. Who cares about the bad effects. It will all work out. Right? I think Schmidt does not care and Musk does.

  13. Who cares about AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Follow the money. Look at who is currently doing what with "AI" (imperfect automatic classification networks) and ask yourself how does this help me?
    There are good uses for "AI" as there is for any technology yet majority of dollars and resources are currently being leveraged for evil.

    Regarding distant AGI / singularity all bets are off. Nobody is qualified to make an intelligent determination.

  14. Re: That makes no sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. Wrong. A million times wrong.

    Go look up strong vs weak AI then you are qualified to read this article but not intelligently comment on it.

  15. Re:That makes no sense. by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

    The definition of "artificial intelligence" does not include consciousness, nor magical powers. Nor does it require intelligence. You see, that's why the word "artificial" is placed in front of the word "intelligence." It isn't intelligence. It isn't supposed to be intelligence.

    Problem with words like "AI" and "Cloud" they convey no more useful information than saying "that thing". They can mean anything by themselves. It is only with qualifying context can useful information be exchanged.

    Default mental picture of what they represent varies so wildly by individuals as to be a total write off. It's counterproductive to bother to invoke them at this point.

    Your belief that that which is currently labeled "AI" doesn't actually qualify as "AI" is simply false, and is founded entirely on your complete ignorance as to what the word "AI" actually means. You are using the word wrong, and that's a fact.

    Language belongs to everyone not just yourself or the people who write dictionaries. What languages means depends on what society says it means at any point in time.

    The fact is "AI" has become an empty meaningless term.

  16. Eric thinks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He can control it as a tool and out everything everyone.

  17. The computers will start thinking by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    and the people will stop! - Walter Gibbs, Tron

    --
    Good-bye
  18. Both Eric & Elon are Exactly WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eric and Elon are closet LUDDITES who HATE apps.

    Only my AI is good, MINE!

    All other AI is bad, BAD!

    Now gimmah all your money!

  19. psychoanalyzing an artificial intelligence by swell · · Score: 2

    Humans are an emotional basketcase. If you have doubts look at the superstitious religious nuts in every corner of the globe. As a result, it is to be expected that these irrational humans expect smart computers to also be emotional. To retaliate when their feelings are hurt. To dance in triumph when they win a chess game. To pursue supremacy over humans and rule the world.

    Listen people, it's time to STOP ANTHROPOMORPHIZING COMPUTERS ! They hate it when you do that.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  20. Wrong way to look at things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, Eric is wrong with his assessment. You don't invent something and then attempt to police it. That direction lies madness. A modern rational approach would be to assess the risk first and then decide what you want to do. A simple example, like the phone, would be the land mine.

  21. Re: That makes no sense. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    The fact is "AI" has become an empty meaningless term.

    I don't think so. The fact that it can encompass many different degrees of "intelligence" or some simulation thereof does not make it meaningless. That's like saying the term "vehicle" is meaningless because it can encompass a horse-drawn cart, a transport truck, a train, and the space shuttle.

  22. They have different definitions of AI by chatoitaly · · Score: 1

    They are talking about different definitions of AI. Tim is assuming AI is what people are using now which is just very advanced machine learning. What Elon is referring to is actual machine intelligence that can think at least as well as humans then quickly advances beyond us. Any current form in the near future that is referred to as AI just benefits humans and Tim is correct. However, at some point which nobody can really pinpoint (and likely even Ray Kurzweil is way off on) the actual machine intelligence means we are in real danger, because as a human race we make pretty dumb decisions and any advanced intelligence would feel it was in our own best interest to take over control so we stop hurting ourselves. Just as zookeepers separate monkeys from fighting, a machine intelligence would quickly and without us even knowing, secretly build up capability and keep it from us until they would then just immediately take over but in a way that is much more civilized than we are to zoo animals.

    1. Re:They have different definitions of AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, at some point which nobody can really pinpoint (and likely even Ray Kurzweil is way off on) the actual machine intelligence means we are in real danger, because as a human race we make pretty dumb decisions and any advanced intelligence would feel it was in our own best interest to take over control so we stop hurting ourselves.

      I find it interesting how anyone can presume to know how something smarter than them would behave while concurrently anthropomorphizing that same nonhuman thing.

      Good luck predicting what happens once singularity drops. Nobody is QUALIFIED to do more than pull wild guesses out their asses.

    2. Re: They have different definitions of AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you will-never-exist super machine intelligence give a shit about humanities best interests? Why would your fake future robo brain care one whit about us or spare a single watt of power thinking about us or our problems beyond how it impacts the plans of your faux compu god?

      You read too many shitty sci-fi books. The key phrase there being science FICTION.

  23. Musk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Musk is a disaster.

    1. Re: Musk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itâ(TM)s interesting what the Russian trolls are pushing today.

      I wonder where this narrative is useful for them.

  24. Don't thumb this baitwood faggot up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't thumb this baitwood faggot up

  25. Dur by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

    Feeling the sensation of smartness from being able to rapidly obtain information in no way constitutes actual smartness.

    --
    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    1. Re:Dur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod up. AI does not make you - the human smarter. In fact women say the like Iphones because of the appearance of beng smarter - I digress.

      Most AI is not real AI at all.The AI some talk about is that that reduces bad decisions, or increases the speed of right decisions, such as braking to avoid a collision.
      Giving humans pocket calculators and GPS's has not made anyone smarter.

      The AI that Google is talking about is pruning your decision tree to purchase something that Google get to clips the ticket, makes money off. When AI does not make the optimum decision in the purchasers favor by excluding known parameters, it become a tool, not AI,

      True AI will avive when Siri says - stop fighting , he/she is correct - accept it, with the knowledge that the phone will not recieve some immediate gravity assistance. The velocity of a phone exiting a moving car at speed and striking a bystander is potentially lethal.

      I will accept AI is good enough when it can predict election results reliably. That is a long way off, because some people enjoy making bad decisions.

    2. Re:Dur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AI will not wipe older peoples bums, or provide free medical care.
      Won't fund essential services is an interesting point. The poor to get poorer. Maybe Google can tell the government where revenues need to be and when by.

  26. Re: That makes no sense. by aberglas · · Score: 2

    The trouble is people expect "Vehicle" to mean more than one thing.

    For AI there is
    * The AI Today. Not very intelligent.
    * The AI in 10 years time. Can drive cars, interpret videos, do a better job of Googling.
    * The AI in 100 years time. Can think for itself. Does not need Humans to program it.

    They are very different things, yet people confuse them.

    For many people, the last one does not exist due to the simple logic.
    * AI is not very intelligent today
    * Ergo, AI will never be very intelligent

  27. funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Elon first proclaimed that AI would be used for some heinous shit I immediately thought of Eric Schmidt and his CIA connections and giant dataset of everyone's Google Forms and Google Docs and Google Analytics and on and on...

    captcha: Invasion

  28. Re: That makes no sense. by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    I don't think so. The fact that it can encompass many different degrees of "intelligence" or some simulation thereof does not make it meaningless. That's like saying the term "vehicle" is meaningless because it can encompass a horse-drawn cart, a transport truck, a train, and the space shuttle.

    What on earth is the point in saying "vehicle" when one could just as easily say car or rocket ship? Who does that?

    At the very least if I were to say "vehicle" most people would assume car/truck and they would be right.

    It's not just "AI" lacks specificity it's that it means radically different things to different people. It would be as if "vehicle" conjured image of a scooter to half of your audience and a spaceship to the other half. Piss poor way to communicate.

    Great for marketing though. Your shitty "AI" product looks amazing to those who relate "AI" to "spaceship".

  29. Absolutely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So many absolute statements from logical people spells trouble.

  30. Develop just one thatâ(TM)s smarter than us a by bleugh · · Score: 1

    Itâ(TM)ll iterate faster than we can keep up....the first True AI is all it takes, we can then just sit back and enjoy the ride whilst it develops the next generationâ(TM)s software and instructs us what to do to manufacture the hardware......

  31. Good for whom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The fact of the matter is that AI and machine learning are so fundamentally good for humanity." I think that Emperor Turd Schmidt means that AI is good for Alphabet and what is good for Alphabets is "good" for humanity.

  32. Making every human smarter by q_e_t · · Score: 1

    "alexa, what should i wear today?" "you had nothing suitable so I ordered you a new suit" "I cant afford one" "I sold one of your kidneys and they will take you to have it harvested at 5. Have a nice day"

    1. Re:Making every human smarter by mentil · · Score: 1

      That's funny, Bixby just tells me "you have nothing suitable so just go naked". Must've used GPS to determine I'm in a nudist commune.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  33. Pentagon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AI is for the benefit of humanity says the man who owns a company that agrees to help the military with AI applications.
    What could possibly go wrong? If that doesn't raise your bullshit detectors, nothing will.

  34. Re: That makes no sense. by q_e_t · · Score: 1

    I used to work in the area. We used to distinguish between AI, machine learning, and pattern recognition, and techiques, such as neural networks. Now, I feel the term is very much devalued.

  35. Eric Schmidt doesn't understand what strong AI is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anybody that'd say "AI will make people smarter" is being loose with language with a topic that requires precision in wording. Strike one against Mr. Schmidt.

    Then, the whole point of the AI debate is the whether or not strong AI will be created, either intentionally or unintentionally. It you aren't framing the discussion in those terms, you are missing the point Schmidt.

  36. "the fact of the matter is .." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    immediately back away from anyone who prefixes their opinion with "the fact of the matter is .."

  37. AI amplifies processing power... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and and therefore can do things beyond the minds of mortal men.
    But, here is the risk. Technologies amplify 'work' and therefore increase effect. This includes unwanted effects. Somethings they are unknown and a surprise. Nut I seem to read on a regular basis that companies internal show that horrible things could from their products. And all they did was file away the info.

  38. Exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who put out a statement like that is not worth listening to.

    "AI is actually going to turn all trees into valilla flavored marsipan pigs that will consume all oxygen and turn it into lead" - Some AI research Dude.
    ^ This statement is more corrent that Elons since it is not EXACTLY wrong.

  39. Musk is wrong. Wrong about how bad it will be.. by zawarski · · Score: 1

    .. I think SWATing with your XBox is proof enough we can't have nice things.

  40. Re: That makes no sense. by mentil · · Score: 1

    To be more specific:
    'artificial' has a relatively easy-to-nail-down definition. noone is denying that current AI isn't artificial enough to meet the definition (although if someone started growing/training isolated brain tissue, that might change).
    'intelligence' is a notoriously difficult concept to nail down, much like 'consciousness', and it's well-accepted that there is a continuum of intelligence, and most likely more than just one kind of intelligence. Few psychologists still ascribe to the idea that 'general mental ability' is the only form of intelligence.

    Therefore, it's possible for an AI to have intelligence in one narrow field (e.g. a specialist system) but have zero intelligence in other fields. Strong AI generally refers to a general intelligence, i.e. possessing at least some intelligence in ALL fields. But wait, which exact fields constitute 'all fields'? Psychologists can't quite agree on that, so the best answer one could get is 'everything a human/mammal could learn', although that's arguably arbitrary. Why not, every field of learning a Fruit Fly has? Or plankton?

    Looked at this way, it's very easy to move the goalposts to another, more intelligent being, or include a field of learning that wasn't previously considered important/crucial to intelligence.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  41. The counterpoint is enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Schmidt doesn't have to know anything about AI, he clearly doesn't understand it as he compares it to a phoneline, while you should compare it to an alien intelligent race invading Earth. But his point is made, the 'balanced' discussion can start and lead nowhere. The idea that AI research is somehow throttled by government funding is rediculous, there's huge commercial value in AI and billions are already allocated in developing software and hardware for it. In short Schmidt is talking out of his ass.

  42. "If we asume any progress in AI at all ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... it will surpas humans quite soon. Let's make sure that the benign prevail. AI is the biggest threat to humanity right now. We will be sumoning the demon, thinking we can control it. Us being pets to it would be a positive outcome." Elon Musk, paraphrased

    Bottom line:
    Seems like Musk has his head screwed on correctly. All things considered, the advent of Superintelligent AI is a singularity beyond which humans, by very definition, can not possible predict the future, plain and simple. Eric Schmidt is a douche if he think he can.

    My 2 cents

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  43. good for humanity - like guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > The fact of the matter is that AI and machine learning are so fundamentally good for humanity.

    Yes, like guns, drugs and other shit how criminals makes their income. AI itself is not bad, problem is that bad people will use it agaist other people to steal or takeover.

  44. Humans not that smart. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most humans will choose to ignore the tools that are available to them and rather stay dumb. Evolution does not specifically reward smart people, it rewards everyone smart enough to survive at least until they can pass on there genes.

  45. Re:That makes no sense. by scottrocket · · Score: 1

    Like "Smartphone" - is it really a phone that is smart, or is it a phone that makes one potentially smarter (if smartly used); or simply to make one appear smarter by their use of it?

  46. They're Both Wrong by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    Musk because he just said that since actual AI is so far off he'll benefit from increased regulations since he already has a foothold, Schmidt because he's trying to create a sapient entity as a slave for Humans (something which has never worked for us in the past.)

  47. Don't trust Schmidt in the least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I trust Musk very little but I trust Eric Schmidt even less.

  48. Post this above your computer by Sqreater · · Score: 2

    Post the normal curve of human intelligence above your computer so you see it every day. Now put a vertical line at the midpoint. Half the population of the country - and the world - is at, or below this "normal IQ," which is fine for normal human life, but isn't enough for more advanced work. Now move this line slowly to the right. When you create a world where AI and AI driven machines and processes dominate the work of the world, more and more of these people to the left of the line will find themselves left out of work and the life-giving resources and satisfactions that come from work. These people will not be empowered by AI and advanced technology because they will not be able to help make it or use it in any but the most menial and degrading ways - if at all. The pie-in-the-sky beliefs of those who want to create AI as a substitute for people are either selfishly self-deluded, or just stupid. The whole point of AI is to destroy human participation, just like the "expert systems" they tried to create in the 1980s by interviewing and putting the knowledge base and way of thinking of experts in various specialties into computers. For what reason? Obviously to eliminate people. We know that today they are working mightily to have computers program in substitution for highly intelligent and highly paid human programmers. You think you are immune? The line moves right.

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
  49. Until Android plays local music, Schmidt is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When google assistant was forced onto my phone, I was slightly excited. "Play Van Halen" was my first command. There are 8 VanHalen albums on my local storage. Google couldn't find them and play anything. It wanted me to have some audio streaming service.

    That's just crap.

    I've put about 60G of music/audio on the MicroSD card inserted in the device. Playing that music via voice commands should be easy.

    Until google fixes that, their standing for anything AI is shit, Schmidt.

  50. AI is coming inevitably, it's an arms race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the thing about AI. Whatever country develops it first, has the better AI, and uses it militarily is going to have a huge advantage in war.

    So it's inevitable, unless there are worldwide treaties with real teeth against development of AI weaponry, AI weaponry is coming as quickly as it can be developed. And I don't believe that a worldwide treaty will happen. North Korea was able to develop nukes in secret, and nukes are harder to hide than AI development.

    But for militaries, the legitimate and primary target of AIs is going to be other AIs. They'll be trained to take out other drones primarily, and military targets, not annihilating civilian targets.

  51. Fundementally good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First of all things we create are not fundementally anything but what we make them and second, the creadability of a man who's company is helping to design murder bots is very much in question on any definition of good

  52. Re:That makes no sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Language belongs to everyone not just yourself or the people who write dictionaries. What languages means depends on what society says it means at any point in time.

    Wrong. There is a reason we have schools and dictionaries: to keep our language workable. If the majority of people decided that the word for "sphere" is "cube", that does not make it right. People who write dictionaries actually get to decided what the language say, and that's why you must say "mobility impaired" instead of "cripple". It's not a majority choice. Rules were set and there are penalties for those who break them. In school it's called "failing". In everyday life it can be between not being understood and being sued. Language does not belong to you. You decide nothing. Get over it.

  53. Re: That makes no sense. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    What on earth is the point in saying "vehicle" when one could just as easily say car or rocket ship? Who does that?

    What? Rocket surgeons do it constantly. Space agencies call everything a "craft" or a "vehicle".

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  54. re: Great post, Kjella! by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I can't mod you up anymore on this, but that's exactly how I feel about the whole thing.

    Wealth is NOT a zero-sum game. It's absolutely possible for the rich to get richer without the poor getting proportionately poorer. Wealth is not a pie, where if one person cuts 3/4ths. of it for themselves, everyone else is stuck sharing the remaining 1/4th. of it. Businesses are "baking more pies" all the time when they come up with new things.

    About the only thing that really increases, IMO, is jealousy by those who don't have all the extravagant things the richest people have achieved. And even that is just another human emotion that can be focused different ways. If that jealousy drives a person to learn more useful skills and to achieve greater things so they can have more, great! That's what Capitalism is supposed to be all about. If that same jealousy drives a person to commit crimes against others, because they feel entitled to steal the richer's person's wealth? Then that's an example of it motivating a person the wrong way.

    In a far future where robots and A.I. have taken the liion's share of jobs, you have to ask how it's possible all of that automaton won't create a proportional number of new jobs selling, upgrading, repairing and programming all of it? The idea that the machines will just do all of that too is, IMO, pretty far-fetched. It's a BIG leap between the world where robotics and A.I. is designed well enough by humans so it can accomplish all of the physical labor we now do for pay, and a world where it's better than us at anticipating the next place we'd like to deploy it to do something new or different than it already does. You might even decide to draw legal or ethical lines against it, whenever that day comes -- since up till then, humans are still in the driver's seat, dictating exactly what a given piece of A.I. or robot will do for them.

  55. No way.. by Inyu · · Score: 1

    Eric Schmidt is exactly wrong comparing communication technology with computation technology. Communication technologies tend to be inclusive, in that they connect people and things, while computation technology may be non-inclusive, just like, e.g., brain is non-inclusive of other parts of body to play its role. To an owner of a company with vast computational resources, it may sound wonderful to have a brain, that, will help all others, but the "social mobility" (or ability to play part in the role of brain) depends on the possession of computational resources and the power to make them. I haven't heard of that company giving away the technology and resources to make GPUs and TPUs.

  56. Re: That makes no sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AI no longer means anything useful because the clowns doing machine learning, which isnâ(TM)t really learning, stole an even better term for their often broken poorly trained neural networks. Which also arenâ(TM)t neural.

    Getting the picture yet? None of the terms they use are really those things. Itâ(TM)s all bullshit.

    And yes I have my degree in this field.

    Tl;dr: machine learning ismnot learning. Machine learning is not AI. Computers are just as stupid today as in 1970;,theyâ(TM)re just faster at being stupid. Stupid isnâ(TM)t even the right word. Computers have absolutely zero intelligence now, in ten years from now and wonâ(TM)t in 100 years either. Just faster at stupid.

  57. Just plain dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guys like Schmidt seem to believe that most street sweepers and janitors have the capacity to get their PhD degrees while also doing their Residency in neurosurgery. What if people aren't going to get any "smarter" than we are now? What if the density of physical, emotional, and genetic flaws that characterize our population(s) remain static? Anybody think we'll need street sweepers in 20 years? Schmidt has the common "smart guy" blind spot: an almost complete inability to put themselves into the head of someone who can't balance their checkbook (damn I need a less obsolete analogy). Sure, some people don't finish High School, don't go to or finish college and don't go to graduate/medical/law school because of financial constraints. (In fact, most PhDs are more underemployed than are most high school dropouts). But many people simply "top out" at the amount of schooling they have and move on to be productive members of their communities. Schmidt's proposal that the people dislodged by technology only need to "up their game" works in a world where everybody is above average. In the real world, not so much is my guess. (Bernie Sanders free college vs Trump's protectionism...which one is in the oval office? It seems I'm not the only one who knows that "more education" is not a panacea)

  58. Re: That makes no sense. by lgw · · Score: 2

    For many people, the last one does not exist due to the simple logic.
    * AI is not very intelligent today
    * Ergo, AI will never be very intelligent

    The better argument is: there has never been an "AI" with general intelligence, and there is no evidence this is possible. What some call "strong AI" is an extreme of general intelligence - human-equivalent or -superior intelligence, but there's a lower bar here that hasn't been cleared. No "AI" has ever been able to solve a problem is hasn't specifically been trained to solve, and it would be a surprise to experts if that ever happened with current methods.

    Strong AI and weak AI are not different points on a continuum from an implementation perspective. They are very different in kind. Strong AI is simply not anything like weak AI with more processing power.

    Could it happen in 100 years? Sure - that's a long time. But it's not some natural evolution of what we have today.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  59. Re: That makes no sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually no, the dictionary writers follow the mainstream cultural use of words and update accordingly. Why else would they need to republish a new dictionary every year?

    Linguistics degree here. How about you?

  60. commentsubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's many ways to approach his spiel, his handwaves about magic education, his assurances and pacification, but I haven't so much patience so let's reaffrim that the extinction of labor* will not just solve itself:

    We won't need three billion roborepairmen.

    s/ any job title. By definition you don't need masses doing the hyperspecialized paychecks that will remain. The masses be lined up around my armed-drone compound, hoping to play me violin or read me poetry, or more likely polishing my knob. I own everything; in order to get my money back down to the villagers I pretty much need to cycle someone slobbering 24/7.

    Billy was born in 2250, has just turned 18, and knows he needs a shit ton of higher ed to become a AI wrangler (/etc) and wants to avoid using predatory student loans (they got even worse) for his tuition (which has continued doubling every decade). What labor is there for him? I'm not giving you an abandoned single mother with depression/bipolar/whatever and a bad leg, I'm giving you a perfect specimen on a silver platter, and you have fuck-all for him to do.

    * which has only ever been shuffled around; it has never been directly excised. This has never happened. This has never happened. This has never happened.

  61. Eric Schmidt is âexactly wrongâ(TM) by Lorem_Ipsum · · Score: 1

    Asking the opinion of someone who thinks AI can be compared with a simple mechanism like a telephone is a waste of time. Having a CEO title, even of a company like Google, doesnâ(TM)t convey expert knowledge of abstruse technical concepts.
    Elon anticipates the worst because humanity has without exception shown that it can and will find the absolute worst things that can be done with any technology. Expecting that to change for AI is Pollyanna-thinking.

    --
    --- Void where prohibited. Your mileage may vary. ---
    1. Re:Eric Schmidt is âexactly wrongâ(TM) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly right. You need to ask yourself do the benefits outweigh the consequences? I.e. you need to perform a risk assessment. Using some simple examples so Eric can follow along. Explosives have great potential in mining and construction. They have a downside. But overall the risk is worthwhile. Mining without them would cost less lives. But let's apply explosives to landmines. Just because we can make one now that we have explosives, should we? Land mines are indiscriminate killers. It even qualifies as little AI using the broad definition AI has today.

  62. Said the Tax dodger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Way too much beef in the game to even listen to him.

  63. Re: That makes no sense. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    'intelligence' is a notoriously difficult concept to nail down, much like 'consciousness'

    Good point! This, I think, is the key; to the extent that the guy I was responding to may be right about "AI" being a "meaningless term", it's largely due to the fact that "intelligence" itself is so poorly defined. He may as well drop the word "artificial" and argue that the word "intelligence" is meaningless.

  64. Re: That makes no sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is lots of evidence that it is possible.

    You are (presumably) intelligent. You are a (biological) machine. Therefore it is possible to build an intelligent machine.

    Further, you are defined by your DNA. Which is only about 500meg of data, most of which is junk. So, to be very generous, let us assume that some 50meg of DNA has anything to do with your intelligence. That is not a whole lot of specification.

    Which suggests that not only is it possible to build an intelligent machine, it may be quite feasible.

    And finally, we have only had computers for some 60 years. And commonly available powerful computers for about 20 years. There is now billions being invested. And they are much more intelligent than they were 20 years ago. Image recognition, machine translation...

  65. Not just "elimination" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As I recall in the early days of machine learning, the expert systems were also aimed at providing "backups" of real world experts, maintaining an accessible "pattern of expertise" for sharing and refinement, a forward-thinking plan for succession planning. A side effect is the "elimination" of the dependency on particular humans, yes, if you really want to word it that way.
    It's still the same gut reaction as the "elimination" of other possible single points of failure - over-fearful and distracting.