Slashdot Mirror
Companies Are Using California Homes As Batteries To Power the Grid (qz.com)
"Companies like Tesla and SunRun are starting to bid on utility contracts that would allow them to string together dozens or hundreds of systems that act as an enormous reserve to balance the flow of electricity on the grid," reports Quartz. "Doing so would accelerate the grid's transformation from 20th century hub-and-spoke architecture to a transmission network moving electricity among thousands or millions of customers who generate and store their own power." From the report: In theory, networked home-solar-and-battery systems, acting in coordination over a single geographical area, could replace things like natural gas "peaker" plants need to help support the grid on a moment's notice. But it's an open question whether it makes financial sense. Kamath says renewable mandates could keep home solar-storage solutions for the grid going for a while, but the idea will have to prove itself on the market, perhaps by aggregating large areas, if it wants to seriously compete with existing energy assets.
SunRun told investors in 2017 that its pilot programs suggest it could competitively generate $2,000 worth of services by managing electricity flow back to the grid. The company has recently dropped its combative stance with utilities dragging their feet on accepting home solar. Instead, it's pursuing cooperation with the utilities now, in hopes of selling them home-based power. That would allow it grab a chunk of the billions being spent on modernizing the grid. "We don't want to be in a position of building two competing infrastructures," SunRun's Jurich said.
SunRun told investors in 2017 that its pilot programs suggest it could competitively generate $2,000 worth of services by managing electricity flow back to the grid. The company has recently dropped its combative stance with utilities dragging their feet on accepting home solar. Instead, it's pursuing cooperation with the utilities now, in hopes of selling them home-based power. That would allow it grab a chunk of the billions being spent on modernizing the grid. "We don't want to be in a position of building two competing infrastructures," SunRun's Jurich said.
Once again, California leads the way for the rest of the US. You're welcome, and please don't come here.
You are welcome on my lawn.
TRUMP!
I bet you thought I'd say greystone.
You may even catch up with South Australia one day. The state govt is in the process of a similar scheme already.
A big part of me is afraid this will simply game the market rather than add predictability to pricing, although that is arguably is inevitable. I would much prefer a rate sheet that is easier to understand the implications of use in order to better allow proactive demand-side management. Too many things are grossly inefficient with reactive load management.
But, I don’t know an easy solution to the current ramp-rate profile without batteries and punitive rate structures.
Admitted that was a dedicated system but peak charges can be orders of magnitude higher than bulk power so yes, it does make economic sense.
Once again, PopeRatzo shows he's a troll. The statement about California leading the way again is an attempt to incite conservative commenters who generally disagree with California's policies. Also, PopeRatzo has previously indicated that he lives in Houston. He is being dishonest when he implies that he lives in California. Even if he's recently moved to California, his statement imploring people not to go to California is then very hypocritical. To summarize, PopeRatzo is a troll and he's trolling yet again. His post should be moderated to -1 troll.
See subject: I know this is off-topic, but I know of no better way to apologize to everyone for my behavior. I'm very sorry for my behavior on Slashdot and elsewhere.
* One of my children asked me why I insult people, repost the same personal attacks repeatedly, and even make threats. This was a life-changing moment for me, knowing that my children can Google me and see how I act online. It's awful that they have to be embarrassed of their father's behavior online, and even worse that they might think my behavior is acceptable and imitate me. That affected me more than anything else, and convinced me I couldn't continue in my behavior.
I want to apologize to Ash-Fox, Brockmire, Coren22, amicusNYCL, Ol Olsoc, BarbaraHudson, PopeRatzo, arth1, Zontar The Mindless, and all the other people I've offended. I can't undo my behavior, but I won't be repeating my past conduct. I've been attacking people like this for two decades and it's time for me to stop. I will post this comment a few times in different articles so as many people as possible can see that I'm apologizing to them. I will not, however, be reposting my comment and spamming articles when this off-topic comment is properly moderated to -1. I am truly sorry for my behavior, and I will also be apologizing to my family for how I've acted and embarrassed them. I have deserved every bit of the criticism that I have received and then some.
I will continue to develop my hosts file software in hopes that it is useful as part of a comprehensive security solution. I want to be known for the quality of my software, not my vile behavior.
I also apologize for my recent outbursts and alleging other users are impersonating me. I've done these things a few times even after posting my apologies. It is just hard for me to control my anger toward other users and unlearn 20 years of bad behavior, but I promise that I am trying. I greatly regret disowning my own apologies in other stories by claiming I was impersonated. The story about RobLimo's passing moved me, since he wasn't much older than I am now. I can't help but wonder and fear what other Slashdot users would say about me if I passed. I truly am sorry for my awful behavior, and I sincerely want to change and finally act my age.
APK
P.S.=> I sincerely and wholeheartedly apologize to everyone who I have offended and attacked... apk
I can't wait to see the alarmists continue to cry warming as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation shifts to the cold phase. It's like climate alarmism makes people ignore every other branch of science. It should be fun to see how the climate scientists justify their adjustments to the data. What's hilarious is the final minus raw data graph. The anthropogenic signal really stands out then! LOL and it's just like skeptics predicted: Adjust the past cooler and adjust the present as high as possible.
We just don't know.
They would have to compensate the home owners for the wear-and-tear on their batteries. And if you can make it work financially with small systems then you can do it cheaper per kwh on a large scale in a consolidated facility. Just do that.
Anything you can do, your utility can do cheaper.
You always need to ask who it makes financial sense for. It certainly makes financial sense for Tesla and the politicians they lobby.
Not one mention of Professor Stefan Halper on any of the fake news sites this morning.
I know!
We have an honest-to-God, American hero who risked his career, if not his life, to collect evidence that a presidential candidate was conspiring with the "Evil Empire" (as President Reagan named them) to undermine our electoral system. I can't believe more people aren't talking about this man.
This sounds like trying out outsource the cost of reliable power delivery to a subset of consumers. If you spend a lot of money to add batteries to a grid-tied solar system and you use those batteries to help balance the grid, you (the consumer) are paying to help the power company balance the grid. If it is just you (all of your neighbors don't also have battery systems), you end up paying more for the public power system then your neighbors do.
Most solar systems are grid-tied and don't have batteries. Grid-tied is popular (way less expensive) because with off-grid you need batteries to store power for cloudy days and dark nights and you need a much larger system to gather enough power when it is sunny to store in the batteries for when it is not.
Tesla, Enphase, and others are now offering battery systems that work in conjunction with grid-tied solar systems. These systems allow you to add some battery storage to your system. What is new with this model is that you can add just a portion of the battery storage you would otherwise need for a full off grid system.
There are three reasons to add batteries to a grid-tied system, only two of which are of value to the end consumer. 1) Store power for use during a power outage - a whole house UPS. 2) Store power for time of use and cost optimization - store solar or utility power when power rates are cheap (off peak times), use the stored power during expensive (peak) times. 3) Provide reserve grid power for grid balancing - what the article is talking about. Of these things the first two are things that it makes sense for a consumer to invest in - they provide a benefit to the consumer for their investment. The last thing is a cost to the consumer that is really benefiting the consumer's neighbors and power company. This cost is disproportionate to your neighbors if you neighbors are not also investing. In addition, if you do 3, you will potentially reduce the potential run time of 1 and the dollar savings of 2.
I suppose if the power companies offered significant discounts or other incentives to people who agreed to join their private batteries to the public grid it would be all good, but the cynical side of me thinks that it's an attempt to get a subset of customers to help pay for grid reliability that everyone should be paying for.
By Jeremy Rifkin. It's all in there. New big companies seem to be following it step by step. https://www.thezeromarginalcos...
Electric Cars could be charged using cheap off peak power that they could return during peak period for a price.
So - are you willing to pay $1300 to $1800 for a backup that may get used a few hours every day/week/month/year? Really?
Do you have insurance? Why?
Do you wear seatbelts? Why?
Do you wear a helmet? Why?
Are you still struggling with the whole concept of time and which way it points?