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California City Tries Universal Basic Income Programs -- Including One Targeting Potential Shooters (latimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes the Los Angeles Times: Mayor Michael Tubbs, a Stockton native and Stanford graduate who is all of 27 years old, wants to give at least $500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income... Workers in Silicon Valley and the San Francisco-Oakland area, driven out of the cuckoo housing markets in those communities, have snapped up cheaper properties in Stockton, accepting the bargain of killer commutes... But Stockton still suffers the crushing burdens of poverty, crime and now the rising rents and home prices that come with gentrification. For those who don't have the education or training to work 60 miles away on tech's front lines, Stockton still struggles to develop jobs that pay a living wage...

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and Space X's Elon Musk have both pitched the idea in terms of inevitability, given the growing income gap and the threat of massive job losses because of automation... As small as the program will be, it's not going to dramatically affect many Stockton residents, but the goal is to get a sense of whether such an infusion on a broader scale can significantly alter lives and boost the economy.

The program will be funded by private and nonprofit sources, according to the article. And while it may not start until early next year, Stockton is already launching a similar program where the benefits are more targeted. Stockton is about to award stipends of up to $1,000 a month to residents deemed most likely to shoot somebody... The idea is that a small number of people are responsible for a large percentage of violence, and offering them an alternative path -- with counseling and case management over an 18-month period, along with a stipend if they stay the course -- can be a good investment all around.

17 of 271 comments (clear)

  1. Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    $500 UBI a month for a select group of individuals, and $1000 a month for an even more select group of individuals.

    Hmmm

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by Gryle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Universal"
      "You keep on using that word. I do not think that word means what you think that word means.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    2. Re: Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by Reverend+Green · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just a welfare program. If everyone doesn't get it, and if it's not an unconditional right, it's not "universal".

      However I suspect this is what some (not all) proponents of UBI really want. A nice little cash handout for the selected and compliant. A lever of money to influence the behavior of the lumpen masses.

    3. Re: Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by mentil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A guaranteed minimum income to raise everyone to the poverty level makes more sense to me. It'd cost far less, for one thing, and if the assessment is done frequently enough it'd (quickly) cover people who had a well-paying job but became unemployed.
      Of course the poverty level is far too low, so it'd have to raise people to like 150% of the poverty level.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    4. Re:Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Universal" "You keep on using that word. I do not think that word means what you think that word means.

      It means more money for ammo, and more time for target practice.

    5. Re:Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As long as we're on the topic, $500 is not basic income in any part of California. It can buy you a blanket and pillow, but the rent for the square of sidewalk you want to sleep on will exceed that.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re: Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by Cipheron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, because the 10K could be funded by things such as flattening the tax rates, which means more people just pay a set percentage of their income, which brings in more revenue, but also saves a ton on processing millions of tax returns.

      Most people won't see a big change in their actual income from that, but the benefit is that if you lose your job, you have a safety net built-in rather than having to go through tons of paperwork and get shunted into a separate "unemployed" system. It's having a separate system for working vs non-working people that creates a big part of the welfare trap: often, actions designed to pull yourself out of the welfare trap end with them suddenly cancelling your full benefits for even trying to earn a *few* dollars more, so the carrot of greater earnings is outweighed by the stick of them cutting off the money you're getting that you need to make rent.

      So, abolish progressive income tax while also bringing in UBI to replace the tax credits we're already paying out. It will mean more social mobility from the non-working to working world, and also give existing workers greater bargaining power. If you know that you can still make rent even if the boss sacks you, you have more power to stand up to abusive bosses. It's all inter-related.

    7. Re: Incentivizing what behavior exactly? by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ALL social programs are run by politicians. You can't just screech "no true Scottsman" and pretend that this nonsense will magically sort it out if only you appoint the right "enlightened dictator" to run things.

      The problem with do-gooders is that they always refuse to acknowledge the obvious and forseeable challenges. Once these things arise, they never take responsibility for their inability to think shit through. They may not even admit there's even a problem. If they do, they will just go back to scapegoating and avoiding ALL personal responsibility for the policies they implemented.

      Anything you think up has to survive Republicans and Tories. Even a reasonably bright pre-teen can grok this.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  2. Universal? by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How is a "select group" "universal"?

    Is that because it is too expensive to be "universal"? If there are income criteria attached, there is already a name for such a program.... it is called "welfare".

    1. Re:Universal? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Informative

      How is a "select group" "universal"?

      . . . when the all the receivers of the payola are universally supporters of the Mayor's political party.

      "Pay me $1,000 a month, or I'll shoot somebody!"

      This sounds like old-time mafia "protection" rackets . . .

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  3. Re:Problem by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the US, 90% of stupid posts are caused by trolls. Try getting a job that pays above minimum wage without going to university or vocational training. Meanwhile, training/education cost money. At the very least, giving a stipend to university or vocational students is a good idea.

  4. Re:Wait, what...? by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not so crazy when you see NRA and so many others on the right repeatedly fight tooth and nail to ensure those who are likely to shoot someone are still able to conveniently buy military-grade assault weapons without any background checks.

    Please provide just one link to any single thing the NRA has ever published that supports what you just said. Which you can't, because you're just plain lying. So the real question is, why are you lying? You know that what you're saying is child's play to fact check, and that it doesn't even begin to pass the smell test. So, you know you're lying, and you know that everyone else will know you're lying. So, really, is it just because you're a lazy troll?

    I understand the aim is to increase firearm sales since, if and when they become the next school shooter, NRA's members share prices will spike.

    Ah, I see. You're pretending that you're actually incapable of reading and learning things, or are hoping that everyone else is. But here's the thing: even the people who pretend to believe what you're saying know that the NRA's members are millions and millions of individuals. The vast majority of the funds that the NRA raises come from member fees and member donations (not corporate sponsors). And essentially ALL of the money they spend in political lobbying (which is handled by a completely separate legal entity with its own publicly viewable money trail) comes from small donations by millions of individuals. All of which you know, and you know that everyone else does, too. Which makes it so strange that you think you're fooling somebody with your absurd assertion. So, stop lying - you're not kidding anyone.

    Statistically, most domestic terrorists have a right-wing ideology (e.g. smaller government, racial hatred, non-christian intolerance) and carry out their murderers usually for political reasons not because they don't have a livable income. They apparently had enough money to buy easily available firearms without respectable background checks, afterall.

    This is incoherent, has no basis in fact, and is you - once again - spouting nonsense about something you know to be false, or about which you're so embarrassingly misinformed that it's a wonder you can even string together a meaningful sentence on the topic. Oh, right! You haven't actually done so.

    I can understand their logic as more reasonable than I can relative to NRA's complicit encouragement in arming these unstable individuals to become the next mass killer headliners

    Again, simply lying about it doesn't make it true. Your failure to show a single example of what you're lying about pretty much wraps it up. Though it is worth pointing out that the people who REALLY love mass killings are the liberals. Because it makes a great lever they can use to send out sock puppets like those kids from Florida, armed with money from people like Soros, to lie just like you, all in the name of regaining the political power the left has squandered for years. Please, keep it up! The more transparent BS-spouting you do, the more it helps people to understand why they should vote in exactly the opposite way you're trying to con them into in the first place. So, more, please! Every time people like you do, organizations like the NRA get record amounts of new members and individual donations. You're helping their cause when you lie. Thanks!

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  5. Re:It does not work by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It makes no sense to take from someone who earns the money and give it to someone who has done nothing to earn the money.

    Now show us some evidence that the people who are getting the most money in our society are actually earning any of it.

  6. Re:Wait, what...? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    able to conveniently buy military-grade assault weapons without any background checks.

    Number of people killed in America last year by military-grade assault weapons purchased without background checks: 0.

    Number of people killed in America last year by handguns: 25,227

  7. More likely to shoot people by iTrawl · · Score: 4, Funny

    If I'm a peaceful guy not getting $1000, but the violent guy next door does, then I'm bound to become suddenly violent as well. Now hand me my $1000, bee!

    --
    "Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
  8. Re:Wait, what...? by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Informative

    Obama didn't legislate. He issued an executive order that included ZERO due process. It was so bad that even the ACLU objected to it.

    You're just mindlessly repeating stupid propaganda.

    You can't even get this simple set of facts right.

    The measure in question only applied to old geezers on social security. It had no real standard for determining "mental illness".

    It takes real talent to create an "anti-gun" measure that even the ACLU doesn't like.

    It's not what you're trying to pretend it was.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  9. Re:Wait, what...? by markdavis · · Score: 4, Informative

    >"Number of people killed in America last year by handguns: 25,227"

    Number of defensive gun uses that either stopped or prevented crime in America by non-police, with and without any shots fired: up to 3,000,000