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Senator Makes Amtrak Hire Ticket Agents Because 30 Percent of His State Lacks Internet (senate.gov)
McGruber writes: Joe Manchin, the senior Senator from West Virginia, has inserted language in the FY19 Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies appropriations bill that will force Amtrak to employ at least one ticketing agent in every state that it serves.
His reasoning? "Amtrak has told me that most of their sales are now online, but West Virginians buy far more tickets at the Charleston station than most places around the country. That's not surprising, as nearly 30% of West Virginia is without internet access, and mobile broadband access is also difficult in my state's rugged, mountainous terrain, making online ticket sales difficult." Manchin continued: "Our population includes many working class families and elderly residents who are less likely to have a credit card or another means to purchase tickets remotely, but rely heavily on the train as an alternative to driving or flying. Although Matt Crouch's job was terminated today, once the bill is passed by the House and Senate and signed by the President, Amtrak will have to reinstate a position in the state and I will do everything over the next few months to make sure that happens."
His reasoning? "Amtrak has told me that most of their sales are now online, but West Virginians buy far more tickets at the Charleston station than most places around the country. That's not surprising, as nearly 30% of West Virginia is without internet access, and mobile broadband access is also difficult in my state's rugged, mountainous terrain, making online ticket sales difficult." Manchin continued: "Our population includes many working class families and elderly residents who are less likely to have a credit card or another means to purchase tickets remotely, but rely heavily on the train as an alternative to driving or flying. Although Matt Crouch's job was terminated today, once the bill is passed by the House and Senate and signed by the President, Amtrak will have to reinstate a position in the state and I will do everything over the next few months to make sure that happens."
Yes, having no Internet access is a bad deal for Virginians, but maybe the state representative should be doing something about that instead of bitching to Amtrak.
If people can order burgers at a McDonalds POS terminal they can certainly buy train tickets from them as well.
I'd argue that the ability to buy tickets for cash is a good enough reason to have ticket agents. And also the ability to make certain changes to trips in progress that aren't always possible online.
If Amtrak is expected to make a profit, or at least survive on its own, then it must have the ability to allocate resources as needed, including not devoting resources to markets that aren't profitable.
However if Amtrak is expected to serve markets that aren't going to be sustainable, make it a public utility supported by public (ie, tax) money.
The National Radio Quiet Zone covers a large part of West Virginia. The "lack of Internet" is by design, though I guess wired Internet is still possible. No WiFi, satellite Internet, or cell service allowed to protect radio telescopes from interference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Because the National Radio Quiet Zone prohibits WiFi, satellite internet, and cell service in a large part of W. Va. to protect radio astronomy telescopes from interference. The "lack of Internet" is due to this, I suspect, not because of poverty or lack of will.
commuter rail still has the hole punch
... provide internet to 30% of the goddam state?
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Yeah, but do they really need a ticket agent when there isn't a train picking up passengers? You could put the ticket booth on the train itself and cater to all of un-manned stations with just one agent. Or forget the booth and just have the conductor sell tickets to people who didn't pre-buy them.
If the train doesn't even have a conductor then.. I guess they don't care if people pay, even?
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The commuter and light rail trains that I've been on had vending machines at the stations.
It might be easier for people to get tickets if they were available at at United States Post offices and postal stations. Folks would need to plan their travel plans in advance because post offices aren't open 24/7, but even most small tows have postal service outlets.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Once SpaceX gets its Starlink internet service up and running, everywhere in the US should have access to good internet. The FCC approved them launching a constellation of over 4,000 LEO satellites by 2024, which then will be followed by about 7,000 satellites in even lower orbits. SpaceX has already put the first test satellites into orbit. Though as others have mentioned, dealing with the Radio Quiet Zone regulations might be a problem. The nice thing about LEO satellites is that it fixes the latency issues you see with current geosynchronous satellite internet service; they expect ping times in the 20-40 ms range. And the shear number of satellites will mean adequate bandwidth.
Hiring one salesperson is cheaper than building all that stuff.
And you can do both in parallel too; if the infrastructure ever does get built, then you can lay off the salesperson when they're no longer needed. But until then...
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Because the National Radio Quiet Zone prohibits WiFi, satellite internet, and cell service in a large part of W. Va. to protect radio astronomy telescopes from interference. The "lack of Internet" is due to this, I suspect, not because of poverty or lack of will.
Fiber, as specified by the poster to which you are replying, does not interfere with radiotelescopes. In 2000 than they had landlines running to 95.3% of all housing units in West Virginia. It can be done with fiber as well.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
You mean along the right-of-way and accesses already used by electricity and telephone landlines? This is already a solved problem. Like everywhere else, you lay fiber along the same routes.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
and not just because they're not 'tech savvy'. Age Related Cognitive Decline is a thing.
I don't like Joe Manchin one bit. He just sold us all out to Wall Street (along with a bunch of other Dems ) by repealing Dodd-Frank (in pieces so nobody would notice). Thanks to him and his right wing / pro corp ilk we're gonna have a major crash in about 4-6 years (just in time for a Democrat to take the Whitehouse and the blame). I hate the guy, but this seems reasonable.
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Because some people are perfectly happy not having internet? And their taxes in theory at least partially pay for Amtrak.
Bullshit. Lineman is a dangerous job. A trained, experienced team of linemen can't hang a mile/day.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Watch the definitions.
Willing to bet the 30% is where wired broadband internet is unavailable. Not the % that don't have access to a phone, data plan and someplace with 1 bar.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"...that will force Amtrak to employ at least one ticketing agent in every state that it serves"
What part of "every state that it serves" do you not understand?
Where do you live that your poles are 300 ft apart? Rural poles might be 300 ft apart for simple runs, urban less.
You can't assume the poles are empty. Linemen have to deal with the lines already there, and make sure the new lines they put up aren't blocking access to anything important. Deal with surprises they find on the pole and adjust plans. Sometimes move another service.
Half an hour per pole? That will cover the 'butt/head scratching' and 'looking at it' aspect.
A mile/day is insanely optimistic, based on the speed I've seen crews moving down the road putting up wires.
Of course you could just assume a 'crew' has 4 trucks and 36 workers. Than maybe.
Decades ago, I was quoted 10k$US/pole to put in new poles and power lines in the Sierra Nevada.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Yea, go figure - sparsely populated areas of the country are sparsely populated with cause.
Since when was the internet the only means of long-distance communication ? For the purpose of purchasing a ticket, a phone is a perfectly reasonable thing to use.
What makes the senator think that availability of the internet will suddenly address W. Virginians' apparent aversity to using credit cards ?
Nullius in verba
Invest in it. Hard to do so under libertarian economy? The vector of progress is from libertarianism of Somalia towards 90% tax brackets "which US never ever ever had" (oh, wait).
The senator should go back to his sister-wife and shut his imbecile Republican (? no, actually, believe or not, this imbecile is a Democrat) yapper.
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Let the free market decide
The free market cannot provide decisions in a heavily subsidized market. Automobile travel is heavily subsidized; thus rail travel is competing with another transportation provider, private autos, that receives a near 50% subsidy.
This article presents an unusually low estimate of the subsidies that autos receive:
Over the last 40 years, gas taxes, tolls, and registration fees have covered only about 60 or 70 percent of roadway expenditures across all levels of U.S. government. The remainder has been paid using property, income, and other taxes not related to transportation. These subsidies for driving reduce its cost and increase driving demand in the United States.
from here: https://www.citylab.com/transp...
This article is much more in line with other articles:
A new report from the Tax Foundation shows 50.7 percent of America’s road spending comes from gas taxes, tolls, and other fees levied on drivers. The other 49.3 percent? Well, that comes from general tax dollars, just like education and health care. The way we spend on roads has nothing to do with the free market, or even how much people use roads.
“Nationwide in 2010, state and local governments raised $37 billion in motor fuel taxes and $12 billion in tolls and non-fuel taxes, but spent $155 billion on highways,” writes the Tax Foundation’s Joseph Henchman. Another $28 billion of that $155 billion comes from revenue from the federal gas tax.
from here: https://usa.streetsblog.org/20...
Most other studies seem to hover around that 50% mark. The point being that "let the free market decide" is a nice quip; but it does not work in markets that do not rely on the free market; but instead rely on heavy subsidies.
If it's a good enough definition for Bangladesh it's good enough for W. Virginia. 'Apples to apples' is my point.
I'm old, I've 'lived and worked' on 300 baud dial up, well 'lived and gone to school' on 300 baud dial up anyhow. Ran small business IT efforts on a 10 Mbit LAN (and liked it), IIRC our modems were up to a screaming 14.4 by then. Soon after that we got a fractional T1, then we were really rocking.
An edge connection would have been luxury. People can cope, you have to adjust, but it's doable.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Having some way to buy tickets from an agent is important - not only for people with no internet access, but also for the unbanked population. But there is no reason to require that Amtrak employ those agents. In some states, an agency agreement for somebody else to sell the tickets might be a suitable solution, rather than requiring an Amtrak employee who will be idle most of the time. (Some Amtrak locations are served by only two trains per day, one in each direction.) The agent could be a local transit agency, a bus company that also serves the station, or a store located near the train station.
In other words, require that the problem (people can't buy tickets) be solved. Don't require a specific solution (Amtrak employees). Requiring the employees is pork barrel politics.
Yes, let's make our government-subsizied and owned monopoly add on additional costs when they don't want to subsidize it in the first place.
Let's not even talk about the fact Amtrak is one of the more expensive options for long distance travel. Using my upcoming vacation as an example; Amtrak doesn't offer actual train service to Las Vegas...so you have to take the train to L.A. and then spend almost 7 hours on a bus. This is $280 each way and a travel time of 72 hours each way! Meanwhile, $180 gets me on a flight to Las Vegas that has a total travel time (including short layover/plane switch) of just the Amtrak bus segment! Mind you, this is also for just a coach seat on Amtrak; so have fun spending 18 hours riding to Chicago and then 42 hours to LA...in a coach seat.
Amtrak isn't attracting new customers because no one wants to pay that much more for a "lower" level of service; it has nothing to do with the availability of ticket agents. I really have to question doing something for "disadvantaged populations" that's typically a more expensive option too. If someone is that bad off, they're likely to want to really save the pennies and won't consider Amtrak at $300 if they can ride a bus for less money. Greyhound directly to Vegas is about $208 and takes about 60 hours. If I'm "disadvantaged", I'm probably saving the $78 and taking Greyhound and actually get there faster.
The lack of a credit card or other banking isn't what it used to be either. You can get reloadable cards now...they've been a thing for years. There's also the thing of you can still pay cash at the ticket counters of most airlines. You can even usually call ahead to reserve and they'll give you 24 hours to show up and pay. It might cost a little bit more...and you might have some extra screening. But if you don't want that, you can just go back and pay more for the slower, less comfortable option.
There are a few legitimate reasons...but these can be overcome other ways. Why not let a third-party sell the tickets? Go to your local Western Union outlet and purchase them; sell them at the post office; visit a local travel agent and pay them cash to get your tickets.
This just seems like a very shallow act by a politician trying to make it seem like he's "helped" people. He's done something for a few people that we'll all have to pay for. It also seems like a very lazy solution for people who can't be bothered to actually think.
I bet if you made every train free, then fired every person involved in selling tickets, Amtrak might be profitable, or at least viewed more favorably by the taxpayers subsidizing the organization.
Ken