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Digital IDs Needed To End 'Mob Rule' Online, Says UK's Security Minister (independent.co.uk)

Digital IDs should be brought in to end online anonymity that permits "mob rule" and lawlessness online, the security minister of United Kingdom has said. From a report: Ben Wallace said authentication used by banks could also by employed by internet firms to crack down on bullying and grooming, as he warned that people had to make a choice between "the wild west or a civilised society" online. He also took aim at the "phoniness" of Silicon Valley billionaires, and called for companies such as WhatsApp to contribute to society over the negative costs of their technology, such as end-to-end encryption. It comes after Theresa May took another step against tech giants, saying they would be ordered to clamp down on vile attacks against women on their platforms. The prime minister will target firms such as Facebook and Twitter as she makes the pitch at the G7 summit this weekend, where she will urge social media firms to treat violent misogyny with the same urgency as they do terror threats. Mr Wallace told The Times: "A lot of the bullying on social media and the grooming is because those people know you cannot identify them. It is mob rule on the internet. You shouldn't be able to hide behind anonymity."

26 of 517 comments (clear)

  1. UK's security minister by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    UK's security minister needs to go bugger a diseased goat, says anyone who's not an authoritarian skumbag...

    1. Re:UK's security minister by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      UK's security minister needs to go bugger a diseased goat, says anyone who's not an authoritarian skumbag...

      Here in the actual Wild West, it's the possibility of having people like Ben Wallace who motivate us to cling to our guns.

    2. Re:UK's security minister by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Theresa May is full of shit.

      Theresa May took another step against tech giants, saying they would be ordered to clamp down on vile attacks against women on their platforms. .....she will urge social media firms to treat violent misogyny with the same urgency as they do terror threats.

      And out in the real world, you know who the most violently misogynist people are? Who commits the most "vile attacks against women"?

      Muslims.

      But you won't hear a word from her about that. No, It's all Facebook, Twiiter and Google's fault.

      Stupid fucking cunt.

    3. Re: UK's security minister by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Re ".. demand that all political speech be tracked" ... "... identified and punished for dissenting." AC

      The UK internet is going full Hundred Flowers Campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      The UK wants all the arts and the progress of approved SJW comments.
      The "good" part of the US internet design. Try some of that US freedom of speech online in the UK?
      Talk about the results of gov policy and its a police visit.
      Mention illegal immigration? Thats a cyber investigation with interviews.
      The cost of rent, housing in the UK? Thats an investigation.
      Utility bill in winter and the cost of energy in the UK? Thats a political investigation for hinting at the lower cost of Russian gas exports.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re: UK's security minister by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      one of the reasons UK government dabbled with the idea of leaving EU was to get rid of those pesky EU laws about spying, politics and such...

      why should whatsapp care though what the UK government wants? look, the fucking governments tell people to stay secure online. then they fucking provide an end to end encryption scheme to stay secure online and they lose their shit..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re: UK's security minister by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What are you talking about?

    6. Re: UK's security minister by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The biggest danger is that after Brexit we might be able to leave the European Convention on Human Rights, which among other things guarantees freedom of expression.

      Even though the government already curtails freedom of expression, the ECHR limits how far they can go. Once it's gone they will be unrestrained.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re: UK's security minister by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No kidding. Similar sentiments can sometimes be heard in the EU Parliament: a desire for more control over undesirable speech, enshrining "islamophobia" into law and equating it with discrimination. This has little to do with the "evil EU" by the way, many national polticians would love to have more control over what is being said online as well.

      A nice example: many members of a group protesting against a planned refugee center in a Dutch town received a visit from the police, after a few heated online debates on the topic. The police and the responsible minister claim that the visits were well-meant, aimed at giving protesters a "friendly warning" before they cross the line. Sure. But you can also be sure that such a visit will be felt as deeply intimidating by many. Post something relatively innocuous online and have uniformed cops in your living room the next day? Yeah, those guys will probably be a little but more careful about what they write online. Mission accomplished.

      Another example: a cartoonist working under a pseudonym was arrested in the middle of the night by a 9-strong SWAT team, for the crime of making nasty cartoons. In the end they found only 1 or 2 cartoons that actually ran afoul of discrimination laws, but... the guy stopped drawing after that arrest. Mission accomplished.

      The real scary part is that few people care. Many might think that such tactics are a little heavy-handed, but then immediately say: "we're better off without that filth online"

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  2. His "plan" aside... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Insightful

    His plan to make everyone who uses the Internet "show papers" aside, his commentary about the hypocrisy of Silicon Valley billionaires is to the point.

    But the solution to this isn't LESS privacy, it's MORE privacy, if anything.

    1. Re:His "plan" aside... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Insightful

      His plan to make everyone who uses the Internet "show papers" aside, his commentary about the hypocrisy of Silicon Valley billionaires is to the point.

      But the solution to this isn't LESS privacy, it's MORE privacy, if anything.

      Firstly , it's "her", not "him". Secondly, I was one of those who repeatedly warned that claiming misogyny and racism where there was none is the thin end of the wedge.

      Unfortunately people who challenge unwarranted claims of sexism, racism, etc get called sexists, racists, etc. Pointing out, for example, that the gender pay gap doesn't exist gets you lynched.

      The problem the moderate left has is that the moderate left allow the hard left to use shaming language rather than arguments and then fail to distance themselves from that shit. It is far easier to call people who are against affirmative action racists than to find an argument to support it (I haven't seen a good argument yet).

      The end result, of course, is this - monitoring everyone for their own good. Because most people are basically good people, calling them misogynists if they don't allow the state to read their private correspondence is probably going to work.

      That's also the reason that the hard left uses insults int the first place - calling an actual racist a racist is pointless - why would they care if someone identified them correctly? Same with calling an actual sexist a sexist.

      Insults only work on people who aren't correctly identified. Calling a non-racist a racist or calling a non-sexist a sexist "works" because it either aggravates them (shutting down the conversation) or causes them to remain silent about your excesses. Either result is preferable to having facts introduced into a conversation.

      The next time someone says trump is racist because he hates immigrants, see what happens you you introduce a fact such as "legal immigrants are different from illegal immigrants". The next time someone says something about a gender pay gap try introducing a fact or two and see what happens. Or even better, when in company of a hard left (or even moderate left these days) point out that Islam is extremely hard right, more to the right than even the KKK - IOW relative to Islam, the KKK is slightly left (how insane is that?)

      Everyone must be tracked to prevent misogyny? Sure, why not? We've already given everything else to the alternative-truth brigade and anyway if you object you must be a misogynist!

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  3. Re:100% in favour by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only way to enforce privacy is by keeping the ability to be anonymous, whether by paying cash or not having an "Internet ID."

  4. Re:100% in favour by Desler · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Provided this is coupled with significant privacy

    Hahahahaha. You’re not that naive are you?

  5. Don't take seriously anything that government says by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When it tries to claim that certain domestic politicians don't officially exist:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/...

    even to the extent of imprisoning people who mention his name, it has lost any authority to comment on what might be fake news.

  6. civilisation == heirarchal society by OrangeTide · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or at least that is what the people on the top want the rest of us to believe. An authoritarian's ideal structure is one with a small number at the top and the rest of the people on the bottom. Online communication is the most profound change to society in the last few centuries, perhaps in all of human history. So of course authoritarian-leaning people want to be the gatekeepers to it.

    Fear mongering would be telling you that we'll have a lawless wild west if we don't quickly transfer authority to a central entity. As if this is an either or scenario.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re: civilisation == heirarchal society by reanjr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All civilizations are hierarchical because it is necessary to organize people who do not know one another. Even in some fantasy scenario where everyone is equal, but some act as liaisons to organize society, those liaisons are de facto heads of state.

    2. Re: civilisation == heirarchal society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All civilizations are hierarchical because it is necessary to organize people who do not know one another. Even in some fantasy scenario where everyone is equal, but some act as liaisons to organize society, those liaisons are de facto heads of state.

      That argument is weaker than the intelligent design one: "There must be an intelligent designer because things in nature are so complex they could not have come about by chance".

      Simply put, a central planner is not essential for people to achieve productive co-operation. Markets, for example, afford remarkable efficiency using prices as their primary co-ordination mechanism.

    3. Re: civilisation == heirarchal society by terrycarlino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Romans had it right until they screwed it up. When a crisis happens pick the best guy to deal with the crisis who doesn't want the job. As soon as the crisis is over he runs back to the farm because he didn't want the job in the first place.

      The U.S. started out that way, with Washington, but quickly degenerated into parties full of people who wanted to be in charge.

  7. Re:Unintended consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course it will be funny when such a system turns into a circular firing squad resulting in the banning of feminists, SJWs, leftist political action committees, and the media from the internet for doing exactly what she is complaining about.

    Some of the biggest trolls on the internet are not the kiddies on 4chan or the infamous "alt-right", but the leftists, progressives, and their minions.

    Your activism is harassment, my harassment is activism.

  8. Perspective... by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "saying they would be ordered to clamp down on vile attacks against women on their platforms"

    The thing with anonymity is that your gender and race do not need to be disclosed, you can claim anything or be anyone. Everyone is equal online and that's the whole point.

    As for the word "attack", you can't attack anyone online, you can only throw insults at them, it's only words from random people who you don't know and who don't matter to you. Ignore them, respond in kind or better yet just laugh and ridicule their feeble attempts to insult you.

    People need to take the internet for what it is and embrace the anonymity. You can be who you want to be online, if you feel that being a woman online makes you weak and opens you up to "attacks" then pretend to be a man and see what happens. If someone anonymous doesn't like you then so what? You can be just as anonymous as them, they can't do anything to you.

    People troll because they get a response, by running away crying about being "attacked" you are giving them a response and making them feel powerful because they had the ability to affect you. If you laugh at them and show them that not only are you suffering no negative effects from their trolling, but you are actually finding their pathetic attempts to insult you amusing then they will soon give up anyway.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  9. Re: Nazi left by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So Francisco Franco was a leftist?

    What'd be good for you would be a little knowledge of actual history.

    Your claims regarding American politics are also highly suspect. The truth of the matter is that US Democrats would be considered "moderate right" in just any other Western country, and Republicans would be considered "far right". NO viable player on the US espouses anything like an actual leftist agenda, because, to begin with, not one of them presents any serious challenge to the 1% or the corporations. When there's a party, represented by candidates on national ballots, that has the balls to espouse things like nationalisation of industry, breakup and redistribution of large estates, universal free education at all levels, and universal free health care, then you'll know that the US has finally grown a left wing.

    Placing or keeping the means of production in a few favoured private hands is a hallmark of right-wing régimes.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  10. Re:Anonymity isn't the cause. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some of the most virulent behavior I've seen online has been on Facebook, from people who are ostensibly using their real names.

    --
    Eat the rich.
  11. Re: Nazi left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sort of... the Nazi Party's official abbreviation was "NsDAP" ("National socialist German Workers Party"). The "s" was lowercase, but they apparently still thought it was necessary to disambiguate their party's name. If "Nationalsocialist" were truly one monolithic, unique, and inseparable word, "NDAP" would have been sufficient. It wasn't.

    A country can be totally socialist with respect to its own citizens, yet be completely awful to everyone else within its borders. Just look at Saudi Arabia. It's practically the DEFINITION of "socialist" IF you're a Saudi citizen... you're eligible for free money from birth until death, and get the world & your career handed to you on a gold platter... quite possibly, while working for a state-owned company. If you're a foreigner, though, you'll always be at best second-class & looked down upon.

  12. Re:Nazi left by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You shouldn't spout hyperbole just because you can't accept the natural result of socialism in a resource-constrained economy.

  13. Re: Nazi left by terrycarlino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You seem to somehow be under the impression that leftist don't support slave labor. I suggest you take a good look at both the old Soviet Union and China, particularly. That leftist are for 'the people' is a myth. One they've been very good at perpetuating, but then leftist are masters of propaganda, and always have been.

  14. Re: Nazi left by jedidiah · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Socialism is bad. ANY monopoly is bad. Big anything is a problem. Large systems don't scale in general. It doesn't matter if the Robber Baron in question is a private citizen or part of government.

    Socialism doesn't really work past the scale of a commune. If you really want to be a do-gooder then do so locally and step up yourself.

    The American taxpayer is far too much of a deadbeat to trust with my cancer treatment.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  15. Re:Nazi left by jedidiah · · Score: 1, Insightful

    > the NHS can keep lid on the cost of medicines

    You underpay doctors and nurses.
    You don't have enough hospitals or A&E wards.
    You ration cancer meds.
    You ration and waitlist people for surgery including heart surgery.
    You still need charities to pick up the slack (Teenage Cancer Trust).
    You don't have enough diagnostic equipment and people flee to the private market (although you at least have one versus Canada).

    The way you underpay your nurses is a national disgrace.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.