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$950 Million Large Hadron Collider Upgrade 'Could Upend Particle Physics' (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: A massive project to supercharge the world's largest particle collider launched on Friday in the hope that the beefed-up machine will reveal fresh insights into the nature of the universe. The approximately $950 million Swiss franc mission will see heavy equipment, new buildings, access shafts and service tunnels installed, constructed and excavated at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at Cern, the particle physics laboratory on the edge of Geneva.
The upgrade will make the collider far more sensitive to subtle quirks in the laws of physics, and physicists hope these anomalies will pry open the door to entirely new theories of the universe. If the upgrade goes to plan, the proton beams in the souped-up accelerator, known as the high-luminosity LHC, or HL-LHC, will be so intense that the number of collisions in the machine will be five to 10 times greater than today. The upgrade is expected to take eight years. While new magnets and beam instruments will be installed when the LHC is switched off for two years in 2019, most of the required equipment will be fitted in a longer shutdown from 2024 to 2026, when the revamped machine will switch back on again.
The upgrade will make the collider far more sensitive to subtle quirks in the laws of physics, and physicists hope these anomalies will pry open the door to entirely new theories of the universe. If the upgrade goes to plan, the proton beams in the souped-up accelerator, known as the high-luminosity LHC, or HL-LHC, will be so intense that the number of collisions in the machine will be five to 10 times greater than today. The upgrade is expected to take eight years. While new magnets and beam instruments will be installed when the LHC is switched off for two years in 2019, most of the required equipment will be fitted in a longer shutdown from 2024 to 2026, when the revamped machine will switch back on again.
Let's make that "CERN," not "Cern."
Particle physics is just mathturbation. It has nothing to do with reality. It's all an excerise in curve fitting.
The approximately $950 million Swiss franc
What is it?
dollars or swiss franc?
you can not have both.
maybe this one will be the one? can we really take that chance?
WE HOPE.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
... because it should have been Texas.
They would have detected the Higgs boson first, and would have attracted the best scientific minds on the planet.
The infrastructure and support system including housing, lodging, eateries, fuel ...
The list is enormous and the impact great.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Is there a short article I can read to learn the basic terminology of particle colliders? I just need to make condescending remarks about this device and dismiss the efforts of hundreds of experts.
So tired of the tabloid like bs. You want to be taken seriously stop with this bs!!
The harder you smack things together, the more and smaller the pieces will be that fly off.
Have gnu, will travel.
Actually Democrats controlled the House, the Senate, and the presidency at the time it was cancelled. They had total control. The effort to shut it down was led by Democrat Jim Slattery of Kansas.
Billions spent on particle physics, and what do we get? A bunch of particles, and wasted man-years on shit that doesn't matter. Why isn't this money going into solid-state physics? They already gave us semiconductors and superconductors.
It is 950 dollars dollars worth of Swiss Francs. You are even less coherent than the summary. Did you get the Chinese upgrade instead, because you also left out million.
It's 950 million Swiss Francs, or 720 million Pounds.
i've been studying alternative theories to the Standard Model for years. by amateurs, semi-amateurs, "professionals" operating outside of the peer-reviewed process for "some reason" (see below), as well as academics operating within the peer-reviewed community: piotr zenczykowski, sundance osland bilson-thompson (yes a real person!), and many more.
the amateurs... dang. there's a lot of crap out there.
the semi-amateurs... yyeah they actually get somewhere, generally, but they tend to want to contribute to the Standard Model because that's what everyone else is doing.
professionals operating outside of the peer-reviewed process: i'll describe these below. they're extremely rare (as in: there's only really one group, led by one person)
academics: these tend to focus on the Standard Model. the two that i mentioned - piotr and sundance - actually based their work on Haim Harari's "Rishon Model": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... - it was extremely popular in the 1980s but unfortunately did not go anywhere.
there's also "String Theory" which has taken literally decades of extremely talented mathematicians (reducing - or wasting - the world-wide available pool of mathematical talent in the process, was one complaint i saw made by other academics, a few years ago).
all this means we basically have a lot of effort being spent on a theory with at least TWENTY SIX completely unexplained "magic constants"! https://spinor.info/weblog/?p=...
the one exception to this is work by someone called dr randall mills, whose work started somewhere in the 1990s, and, after 30 consistent self-referencing papers (because no peer-reviewed journal would accept them) he and his team published a whopping 1750-page book containing the material. it's *dynamite*. it's the *only* one of the theories that i cannot dismiss "out of hand". it makes sense, it's consistent, it's self-consistent, there *are* mistakes, there *are* "missing pieces"... but the core makes perfect sense even to me with A-Level maths.
now, we can *claim* that increasing the power of the particle colliders would increase the detection rate of particles, thus giving a larger statistical analysis base to work from, but with the near-terminal focus being on the Standard Model, where funding is ONLY available if you are working on the STANDARD MODEL, and where deviations from the STANDARD MODEL result in you never receiving funding again... you see where this is going?
basically i am trying to point out that upgrading the hardware really isn't going to help. the academic peer-reviewed system is so broken that i have really not a lot of hope that things will change. if you are not familiar with this concept, you can google it for yourself: https://www.google.co.uk/searc...
this article - which i had never seen until now - is particularly fascinating: https://www.nature.com/news/pe... which points out that peer-review is "a response to political demands for public accountability". whilst we may claim that, in concert with internet searches and connectivity arxiv (and vixra) are helping to bypass that and allow "public comments" over time to help spot mistakes, it doesn't help with the top journals, which is what most academics read and take seriously. and if those journals are biased....
Ahhh, delicious zero-sum fallacy! *chef kiss*
No, but it did occur to me that you dying would leave more oxygen for the rest of the us worth living here.
IQ of 70? Damn. There are autistic kids with higher IQs than that.
But my shadow IS spying om me? AND reporting its findings to the secret FB HQ at Cern not CERN
Except it's not a fallacy.
Please explain how finite, needed resources being allocated to pointless things instead of meaningful things is not a detriment to those meaningful things.
You can argue about what is pointless and what is meaningful, but that's not the issue here, dude.
You mentioned "zero-sum fallacy". There is no fallacy. From human endeavor to thermodynamics.
Which is better LILO or GRUB2?
Those are my only choices. I have to decide between one or the other.
https://home.cern/about/updates/2018/06/major-work-starts-boost-luminosity-lhc
Dated 2008, but the Collider could save entire countries of people from starving in Africa.
If you give up your internet connection, you can use the money saved to sponsor African children.
It only takes one individual to make a difference.
Also, something for you to think about:
DW special: Why does Africa go hungry?
Why Africa Is Still Starving
Please explain how finite, needed resources being allocated to pointless things instead of meaningful things is not a detriment to those meaningful things.
Exactly. Get rid of your internet connection, and send the money you would have spent on it to Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
So i assume you're giving your paycheck to Medics Withot Borders every month?
There is no fallacy. From human endeavor to thermodynamics.
Oh man, it is so good you couldn't even see the irony here.
That's one of the dumbest things i've ever seen in a Slashdot summary...
Note so some proud americans: Not all currencies are dollars...
They cancelled it out because they could not see the immediate benefit while wanting to show some fiscal austerity. While republican would not have seen the immediate interest either, they would have kept it for the money and economy it would have brought Texas, and while they are vocal for fiscal responsibility in reality it is all bluster and they are utterly fiscally irresponsible when in power.
In other word anti science republican would have kept the ssc if only for the boundangle , not caring about the science or fiscal responsibility.
Isn't that hugely ironic ?
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Wow, you are such a nice person. I'm overwhelmed.
Where can I read your peer-reviewed papers?
Let's throw another billion dollars into this money pit because it didn't work the last time...
Take the money off the banks.
$950 million is less than the amount spent in ONE HOUR of bank bailouts during the last three months of 2008.
The banks were bailed out to the tune of $2.5 trillion ($2500 billion) over three months. This is over $1billion per hour, sustained 24 hours a day for three months.
That is the average bailout rate... on peak days it was 10x higher.
And that’s in 2008 dollars, which have more spending power than 2018 dollars.
$950 million is nothing.
Yep, we are pedantic.
We are also all familiar with cases where missing commas or unit specification have led to million dollar losses.
Most of us encounters cases where missing semicolons causes lost productivity on a daily basis.
A vast majority of conflicts, small and large, in the world are because of miscommunication and failure to clearly specify intent.
Proper capitalization leads to misunderstandings and we don't want that.
Spending an extra minute to make sure that what you communicate can't be misinterpreted will save you a lot of time down the road.
You should try reading some proper standard specifications. Then you will realize that there is no such things as synonyms and that every choice regarding punctuation and phrasing is deliberate.
Same thing goes with legal texts, you don't get to call "tomato potato" on the law.
Yes, he's a Republican, thank you for admitting basic shit.
It is for the LHC, but it could be adapted...
How much will a poor tomato-potato farmer get for his crop when someone else is giving away free food?
What could be more entertaining than watching some jerk, like yourself, come here and complain "...don't you people have anything better to do with your lives?". Which by the very act of posting demonstrates that said jerk has nothing better to do with his life than make useless posts on the internet.
Don't you see, you are what you are what you complaining about. A "total loser".
Welcome to the club.
I have a monorail for sale. It will upend transportation as we know it. You're gonna LOVE it!
Nothing, because rebels stole half of it and the army burned the rest.
Did I win?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Many seem to be grasping at straws. With every passing day, and no new events detected at LHC, the notion of supersymmetry becomes more and more evidently ad hoc, and less and less tenable. And that's another nail in string theory's coffin.
Low user id number posts as ac to troll. Yawn.
Did you forget to say posting from motherâ(TM)s basement and virginal? You have been here long enough to get it right.
Try harder next time.
The scientific community is global. The LHC is there for everybody. It is yours too! The entire point of science as we know it, is that it benefits us all.
Actually, I suggest you travel there, and notice that you will feel a sense of community with those people that share a common love with you. If you are a good scientist, you can work with them and they will want to work with you.
Cultures sticking together makes sense, as long as it doesn't result in a filter bubble. ... But nationalism is just plain absurd.
Not just because nations/states/countries aren't one culture and cultures cross borders. But generally because of how arbitrary the borders are and because any given place used to be part of more than one country/nation/state during its time.
E.g. your proud Texas was taken from Mexico. And they took it from the natives. And some day it will be taken from some new group again, and a couple of decades later, people from that new group will say the same pointless nationalist things about that new country.
If you must take the side of the group you randomly were born into, then side with those that actually form a group with you. People you can talk to and who can talk to you. Your town maybe. Your club (if you are actually a member, not a "fan", 200 miles away). Or ... you know ... the scientific community. :)
CERN really did create a black hole. In terms of economics. All European economies will be sucked in eventually. I imagine a Europe united in its passion for Science with everyone working toward the common goal of creating a bomb so powerful that it makes the Tsar Bomba look like a firecracker. A very worthy goal. I wish I could live to see the mushroom cloud the size of the moon.
In the same papers that said the earth was flat a few hundred years ago because we know âoethe science is settledâ and later inquiry that challenges dogma has always been proven wrong.
Whenever anyone ever comes up with a new theory that differs from what you were told in grade school just plug your ears and scream la la la the science is settled you denier apostate over n over until you won the debate.
Nationalism is not defined by borders. Borders are a side effect. With that in mind the rest of your post has no basis.
"They cancelled it ... because they could not see the immediate benefit..."
Apparently it is possible that there will never be any benefit.
More detail in this story: Why the Higgs boson wasnâ(TM)t discovered in America.
Quotes:
"One thing that killed the TexasSSC was an undeserved reputation for over-spending." I don't agree with "undeserved". The project leaders did not explain their spending sufficiently that people with little technical knowledge could understand it. That was my impression.
"People have been asking which party killed the Superconducting Super Collider. The answer is... both of them. The key Senate vote came in 1993, when Democrats controlled Congress. All told, 26 Democrats voted to kill the project and 29 voted to keep it; 31 Republicans voted to kill and 13 voted to maintain funding."
"n the same papers that said the earth was flat a few hundred years ago"
1) Find me one.
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Glad to help.
Mostly random stuff.
The cracks in the SM are getting too large to ignore. The LHC cannot now, nor can it ever, probe at the scales we need to correct the serious gaps in the SM. Throwing a billion dollars at it is not a good use of our wealth. If you want to throw money at something, spend it on upgrading LIGO or getting LISA off the ground sooner, which are two tools that can open new windows on the universe right now. The SM needs to be corrected, and the LHC cannot help with that.
Except it's not a fallacy.
Please explain how finite, needed resources being allocated to pointless things instead of meaningful things is not a detriment to those meaningful things.
You can argue about what is pointless and what is meaningful, but that's not the issue here, dude.
You mentioned "zero-sum fallacy". There is no fallacy. From human endeavor to thermodynamics.
OK, you really are stupid if you don't see the benefits of basic research.
Without basic research, there'd be no technology.
Hell, dumbass, the first ancient pre-human who invested time in figuring out how to tame fire or make stone tools was doing the same damn thing CERN is doing today - finding out how things work to make life better.
Now go home, grow a brain and learn to use it. Or go play in traffic.
Geez, I'm surprised your mother didn't give you a toaster and an extension cord as tub toys when you were a kid.
More detail in this story: Why the Higgs boson wasn't discovered in America.
2 quotes:
1) "One thing that killed the [Texas] SSC was an undeserved reputation for over-spending."
I don't agree with "undeserved". The project leaders did not explain their spending sufficiently that people with little technical knowledge could understand it. That was my impression.
2) "People have been asking which party killed the Superconducting Super Collider. The answer is... both of them. The key Senate vote came in 1993, when Democrats controlled Congress. All told, 26 Democrats voted to kill the project and 29 voted to keep it; 31 Republicans voted to kill and 13 voted to maintain funding."
Most of the people here are like the person you referenced: Low ID users who come here so infrequently that they donâ(TM)t bother logging in.
Hopefully what happened to Praxis will not happen at CERN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
can somebody please convert this figure to brapples for me?
Might makes right irrelevant.
Correct. Your skin is your country and your uniform.
Back in April, a well-known theoretical physicist warned us about this.
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2018/04/particle-physicists-begin-to-invent.html
Except those cavemen weren't spending billions of dollars to do some fucking particles can collide.
Worthless.
Except those cavemen weren't spending billions of dollars so some fucking particles can collide.
Worthless.
And if you believe him, you probably have an IQ Of 70.
Trump will pardon himself for Seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to act as an unregistered agent of a foreign government.
see:
* U.S. Code Title 18 S 2384
* Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA)
When slashdot was very new a friend told me to get an account so I could have a user id under 1000. I said what for and who cares? I never signed up and he was quite proud of his triple digit id. I still feel the same way. What really baffles me are the clowns who think posting as AC automatically means whatever I say is dismissible as if posting as TheRedLinuxBasementBaron (apologies if someone actually has that name, heh) makes them feel empowered because they are not anonymous somehow (with giant quotes around not anonymous).
"The project leaders did not explain their spending sufficiently that people with little technical knowledge could understand it."
So...you're saying it was physics research.
10 years to build, 10 years to test, and another 10 years wasted! What did the first one accomplish? Nothing!
They were doing their equivalent. It is sad you canâ(TM)t see that. Why wasnt Grunt the Caveman out hunting bears with his bare hands instead of inventing the spear and fire to cook it with?
Oh yeah because the bear would fucking kill him. All the dumbass cavemen like you died because they didnt do basic research.
"So...you're saying it was physics research."
I think most people won't understand why that's funny.
I've worked with Physicists who were distant from the social world.
I fucked your sister last night.
He's a Democrat. They are democrats. The Democrats cancelled it. That's basic shit. Democrats hate science. It tends to get in the way of their solution to everything - more taxes. Then they try to go for emotional stuff, like the separating children BS with pictures taken during Obama's term and a decision by the 9th circuit. Yet somehow it's Trump's fault? When this fails they'll find some other BS to fling upon us. They have nothing else. Nobody is running the Democratic party right now except a few really old delusional fools.
the problem is that absolutely **NOBODY** is **FUNDING** people outside of the Standard Model, so it should come as no surprise that there *AREN'T* any good alternative theories, such that they haven't been able to make any predictions, such that there *IS* no way to experimentally confirm their theories... and thus the alternative theories are stuck in absolute bullshit / no-man's land.
That is simply not true, and a very good example is a book published early 2017; The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus Proton Energy, with a Foreword by Donald L. Birx, has set out very detailed new theories; but the silence is deafening, no one will review the book. There are several points in the debate, with the primary one for this debate herein; that there are no particles; that every so called particle is the result of the release of trapped energy between protons from within the structure of each atom. The starting point for that conclusion is that the standard model proton does not conform to the rules for electromagnetism as laid down by James Clerk Maxwell; such that the positive electromagnetic force field of the proton must seek out the closest adjacent negative potential or extend to infinity. The standard model says that the electron is that negative field. In which case, if the entire potential for the positive potential of the proton is fully negated by the electron; then it would be impossible to detect the proton for the very simple reason that there would not be ANY external electromagnetic field beyond the orbit of the electron. But there is, and, as such, in which case; there must be a proportion of the positive electromagnetic force field of the proton, seeking an adjacent negative potential as per James Clerk Maxwell rules. So the first question to ask is; to what negative potential does that excess field attach? And, if there is an attachment, how does that attachment between all protons, (the rules must apply to all protons), affect the small matter of linear movement of atoms within Ideal gas Law; where all atoms are assumed to be completely detached from each other?
The author has instead completely re-designed the electromagnetic force field of the proton to become an inviolably attached force field that in turn incorporates the electron, (and the positron), as a part of the structure of that inviolably attached field. That in turn creates a structure for the proton that is thus a near infinite spring, which when collapsed between two attached protons, becomes the source of the mass of the Neutron. That the primary "particle" the Neutron, is nothing more than the release of that trapped energy within the collapsed springs of the protons forming the structure of an atom. That all other "particles" are again simply reflecting the variation in the trapped energy caused by the variety of the structure of complex atoms.
The book is in all the major national libraries, the Royal Society has not only a copy but has regularly received draft copies in the run up to publication. The BBC has received two copies, even the Astronomer Royal has a copy. Total silence.
The underlying problem is a new form of apartheid; scientific apartheid, where the colour of your education defines your acceptance. Wrong colour education, you are an outcast. Add that every scientist today depends upon funding for science that is not independent from the existing scientific community; that all funding has to come via the very same apartheid mechanism - you are either "Inside, onside, one of the team" or no acknowledgement by anyone for your work.
Unless and until funding for science is made completely independent of the existing scientific apartheid based peer review system, there will be no progress whatever.
This guy fucks.
LOL. You are way off.
You are equating survival and finding food with a fucking collider. What research are they doing that will help man kind in the future?
Those cavemen had to find better ways to hunt, or they would have died.
Did these researchers need to build this new collider in order to survive or advance the human race? No they didn't.
Go seek medical help please.
Show us on the doll where The Democrats touched you.