Slashdot Mirror


The US Startup Is Disappearing (qz.com)

Dan Kopf, writing for Quartz: Historically, startups have been the engine of US economy. By creating new jobs and surfacing new ideas, startups play an outsized role in making the economy grow. It's too bad they are a dying breed. While companies that were less than two years old made up about 13% of all companies in 1985, they only accounted for 8% in 2014. From around 1998 to 2010, the share of private sector workers in companies that were less than two years old plummeted from more than 9% to less than 5%. A new report from the Brookings Institution, finds that in nearly every industry, from agriculture to finance, the share of new companies is falling.

168 comments

  1. How does outsourcing account for it? by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

    In 1998 there was virtually no outsourcing and start-ups had people on staff that now work for companies like Wageworks and others. Maybe it's better to track the number of actuall start up companies?

    1. Re:How does outsourcing account for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ProTip: If you work for Wageworks and not directly for your startup, you are getting screwed and are most certainly not going to get rich for your efforts.

    2. Re:How does outsourcing account for it? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      ProTip: If you work for Wageworks and not directly for your startup, you are getting screwed and are most certainly not going to get rich for your efforts.

      ProTip: If you work directly for a startup, instead of for Wageworks, you are getting screwed and are most likely not going to get rich because, like most startups, yours is likely to fail. Better to get a steady paycheck.

    3. Re:How does outsourcing account for it? by tattood · · Score: 2

      Wageworks is a company that provides benefit consulting to companies. They are not an outsourcing contractor, so neither of these examples are really correct unless you are talking about the people at the startup that manage benefits.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
  2. Historical precedence by sinij · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a historical precedence where wild west era was followed by consolidated power of robber barons. Comparable is happening in modern technological world - we have Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and so on filling all technological niches and monopolizing them. So until the next niche opens up, be it applied AI or something else, there is less to start up to.

    1. Re: Historical precedence by DalM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know there are other sectors of the global economy besides tech, right?

    2. Re:Historical precedence by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's always a history of new comers becoming incumbent giants and eventually being supplanted in turn. Look at Sears which once revolutionized the way that people shopped and is now a tiny bit player this is closing down its stores. Perhaps there's some cycle in the rate of new startups within that greater cycle of corporate birth and death, but I'm willing to bet that the bigger culprit is an increasing amount of hoops that a new startup must jump through. Government is always eager to put new hoops in place, while seldom bothering to remove old ones that may not be relevant. The existing companies love this as even though it costs them additional money in order to comply with those rules, it's much harder on the little guys. Look at the recent GDPR laws in Europe as an example and ask yourself how much of a pain that would be to deal with if you're a small one or two person company. Or consider companies like Uber, Lyft, etc. that are successful precisely because they're doing their best to skirt the draconian regulations surrounding Taxi services in most cities.

    3. Re: Historical precedence by forkfail · · Score: 0

      Any that you believe isn't already or won't be dominated by tech?

      --
      Check your premises.
    4. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Same thing is/has been happening to sectors outside of tech too. Some of them may even pre-date tech, with memes like Walmart replacing many mom & pop stores, and old media (tv, newspaper) being owned by a handful of companies, with Rupert Murdoch being portrayed as some Bond villain

    5. Re:Historical precedence by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look at the recent GDPR laws in Europe as an example and ask yourself how much of a pain that would be to deal with if you're a small one or two person company.
      Close to zero. While the GDPR is a big chunk of paper, it is for 99% of all companies irrelevant.
      You simply only store as much information you need to perform the business with your customer, like billing address, and never share any information with anyone else. And that is the default for small companies. With whom for what purpose would I share any private data of any of my customers?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know there are other sectors of the global economy besides tech, right?

      Yes, and there's a difference between a "new business" and an "engine of US economy."

      While companies that were less than two years old made up about 13% of all companies in 1985, they only accounted for 8% in 2014.

      How many of these companies founded after 1983 were VHS video rental stores? Only one of those turned out to be Blockbuster, and I'm not sure it had "an outsized role in making the economy grow." How many were mom-and-pop convenience stores? Does the economy grow just because some of them are replaced by the one that gets it right?

      If the point of the research was to say that eventually something sticks... well, thanks for that news flash, I had no idea that re-iteration might yield the improbable result. That 9%-to-5% decline is totally fine if it represents the half of new businesses that suck and were destined to fail anyway.

    7. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know there are other sectors of the global economy besides tech, right?

      Oh yes, thousands of sectors with no significant barriers to entry or established competition

    8. Re:Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The breadth of areas being referenced suggests it's something else. I suppose you could say that IT in general accounts for the decline entirely, but I think there's something else going on.

      From my vantage point, there's way to much monopoly in US society, and too much rent-seeking from established interests. Regulations and intellectual property laws play heavily in this, but so do network effects and other things.

      In health care, for example, it's become increasingly difficult for people to go to private practice because of a multitude of issues, many related to insurance structures. Licensing rules have made it difficult for legitimate competitors to disrupt traditional professional boundaries. Even with apps, you have absurd regulations preventing people from breaking into "grey areas", requiring medical app companies to have physician "medical directors" on board for things they are completely unnecessary for, just for legal reasons. Do I even need to mention the Mickey Mouse copyright laws, that get lengthened indefinitely with the blessing of a stupid SCOTUS ruling?

      Libertarian think tanks have drawn attention to this in recent years, but I don't think Americans recognize the depth of it. It's complicated because some things, like medical regulations, sound good, but are basically FUD banners established interests pull out whenever their turf is threatened. IP law is similar.

    9. Re: Historical precedence by erice · · Score: 1

      You know there are other sectors of the global economy besides tech, right?

      Yes, but where else is there a regular pattern of disruption that allows startups to thrive? Restaurants and fashion are the only ones that come to mind. Fashion is fairly weak as the money is mostly in the barely disrupted manufacturing and retail sides. Restaurants aren't very profitable and few of these "startups" get past the small business stage.

    10. Re:Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's complicated because some things, like medical regulations, sound good, but are basically FUD banners established interests pull out whenever their turf is threatened.

      You can thank the AMA for that one, as well as your insurance costs.

    11. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ohhhhh whatsamatter, poor snowflake libtard can't get your steel manufacturing startup facility off the ground? /S (and EXTREME /s at that.)

    12. Re:Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In 1980 few people predicted that Apple would become the richest company in the world. In 1990 few people predicted that Internet providers would eat long-distance companies' lunch and they would scramble to become Internet providers themselves. In 2005 few people predicted that Google and Amazon would have become part the five richest companies vying with Apple. If this has happened several times before, why should we think that it won't happen again? Yes, all these companies are investing in a lot of little-known niches in case so that they won't miss out if any of them become big. But there will always be things that the big companies don't foresee.

    13. Re:Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      lolwut? pretty much every startup is in the adtech space, because the alternative is collecting money from customers. Any information about a user (even a randomly generated cookie) is subject to GDPR.

    14. Re:Historical precedence by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      We never called these things "startups" in the past. The mentality of the startup is a modern thing. We used to innovate, but today we copy. I won't miss it if todays startups start to vanish, we can get back to having real companies whose valuation isn't listed in the fantasy section.

      And how long is a startup a startup? For one day? Two years? I know private companies that go along fine being profitable for a decade, but somoene calls them a "startup" just because they're not publically traded.

    15. Re:Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      lolwut? pretty much every startup is in the adtech space, because the alternative is collecting money from customers. Any information about a user (even a randomly generated cookie) is subject to GDPR.

      Not outside the US. Even before the GDPR this was categorically illegal in Europe and most of the civilized world.

    16. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the Chinese restaurant that opened up down the street from me last year is less than two years old. I guess it qualifies as a start-up in this survey. It is unlikely to be dominated by tech in the next few years.

    17. Re:Historical precedence by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      Lot of consequences you may not be considering. For example, every Indie/small press writer is a small business. They all tend to have email lists for their readers to subscribe to. For the last few months there has been a huge uproar amongst them while everyone scrambles to figure out what GDPR compliance means they do or don't have to do, just because they send emails to people who want to hear about them and/or their new releases as they come out.

      In any case, the real reason for the decrease in new businesses is likely technology combined with the gig economy. People who would have started a traditional small business are instead becoming contractors. Small businesses still, but structured as a 1099-style relationship rather than a corp/LLC one. Traditionally most new small businesses are still single-person startups, after all.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    18. Re: Historical precedence by vlad30 · · Score: 1
      Do you know what is takes to start up a business of any type these days

      Construction of any type - Insurance Public liability , Workers comp, licences before you even start

      Restaurant - Insurance Public liability , Workers comp, licences, Rent, fit-out

      The same goes for many businesses the costs to start now are much higher not just in tech and add to that ongoing costs e.g. energy cost that are increasing I see a lot of younger people give up once they realise that business they want to start-up would require 50k just to contemplate its not just big companies that make it difficult government and legislative requirements crush lots of starry eyed would be business owners

      Unless you are lucky enough to get an angel investor most people rarely get a start-up going

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    19. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capital-poor startups can't make it in tech anymore. They have to compete against "startups" owned by the Sandhill Road VC Cabal.
        The Cabal gets essentially free money from federal Quantitative Easing giveaways, courtesy their Ivy League dorm-mates in the permanent government. Their "startups" can give their product away free or nearly free, turning a very handsome loss for years. Competing against them for a real startup - that has to, you know, actually make money - is nearly impossible.

      Like everything else in Soviet America, it's a rigged game. Rich inbred venture capitalists get richer, no matter how stupid their bets. Formerly middle class businessmen get declassed and proletarianized. Workers see wages depressed by a coordinated campaign of wage fixing, blacklists, and fraudulent H1B imports. And consumers get Big Brother surveillance up the wazoo.

    20. Re:Historical precedence by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      The tilt that GDPR applies against startups has to do with sharing your company information with potential customers, not sharing customer information.

      If you're an existing company with an existing customer base, you have more people intersecting with your "legitimate business interest," allowing you to ignore most of the effects of GDPR when it comes to lead generation (non-customer communications). Essentially, larger companies ignore much of GDPR for outbound communications.

      When you're a new company, without an established business track record, it's much harder to prove the "legitimate business interest" that's required to actually go out and tell new people what your product is (or will be). Your outbound communications are much more limited.

    21. Re: Historical precedence by another_twilight · · Score: 1

      One difficulty faced by restaurants is needing to offer service like Uber eats to compete, but finding that it's disrupting their pricing as those customers aren't having their food subsidy offset by drinks, say.

      We've had articles, here, about restaurants withdrawing from these services, and others that are starting up out of the normal foot traffic areas with an aim to target delivered food as a portion of their business.

      Technology is pervasive and disrupting most businesses.

    22. Re:Historical precedence by Okind · · Score: 1

      If you're an existing company with an existing customer base, you have more people intersecting with your "legitimate business interest," allowing you to ignore most of the effects of GDPR when it comes to lead generation (non-customer communications).

      This is not correct: generating leads, i.e. future profits, is not a 'legitimate interest' with respect to GDPR compliance. You'll need consent for that.

      Customer data is needed to fulfill (existing) contracts. But having data for one purpose does not allow you to use the same data for another purpose: you'll need a separate justification for using customer data for that new purpose. In that sense, the GDPR levels the playing field by giving large established companies the same options as startups to gain new customers. Large companies only have the advantage of their brand being known.

    23. Re:Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. My small business has been fully compliant with GDPR for the past 20 years. If you're providing an actual service, and not making money by unethically selling your customers to advertisers, you have been compliant too. The only businesses that scrambled to get compliant were the ones already doing illegal/unethical things.

    24. Re: Historical precedence by mixed_signal · · Score: 1

      See: Regulatory Capture
      Big companies and industries shape the playing field, not just for better regulations for themselves, but to create barriers to competition.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    25. Re: Historical precedence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Donâ(TM)t know why but that was incredibly funny read in an English dry humor sort of way.

  3. Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Over regulation, cost of entry, corporate cronies in government, high taxation, have all conspired to hurt small businesses.

    It's a Democrat/Republican problem though. You cannot pick just one. They are all to blame. If you want a healthy functioning economy with light regulation and sensible government spending & taxation, then you cannot vote for anyone in those two parties.

    1. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Add the cost of health insurance to the list. Thanks Obama!

    2. Re:Over regulation by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Over regulation, cost of entry, corporate cronies in government, high taxation, have all conspired to hurt small businesses.

      It's a Democrat/Republican problem though. You cannot pick just one. They are all to blame. If you want a healthy functioning economy with light regulation and sensible government spending & taxation, then you cannot vote for anyone in those two parties.

      Yep...and it is getting so bad, that ONLY the big guys can afford full time staff dedicated to the tax and paperwork....keeps the upstarts out.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Over regulation by Sperbels · · Score: 2

      You think third parties are inherently less corrupt? They're just as likely to be bought off or bullied as any other politician.

    4. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just as the big guys intended all along, since they are the ones writing the legislation nowadays, in many cases literally

      The dream of America is dead and the patient cannot be brought back to life

    5. Re:Over regulation by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      It's not really a problem for most companies dealing with low-skill labor that previously did not receive health care. There was a provision put into place that you only needed to pay for employee's healthcare if they worked some set number of hours (in this case 30) per week. Predictably employers cut hours for many positions and there a now a large number of jobs that offer no more than 29 hours of work per week.

    6. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't thank Obama for that... thank the obstructionist Republicans that turned the ACA into crap so that big business (in this case, the health care companies) could screw us all.

    7. Re:Over regulation by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I have always though of starting my own consulting business. The biggest problem isn't what you have listed, it is finding a Customer base to get my company off the ground.

      Customers want to deal with established companies, knowing they will not be out of business in a year. Offering a product/service they can value over a long time. Also a lot of small companies with limited marketing ability, usually fall under used car salesmen like advertisements which makes them seem like shady individuals to work with.

      The small thing politically that caused this was when George W Bush changed bankruptcy laws, to be more strict on the person/company going bankrupt, raising the cost of failure. But most of what the problem is during the Great Recession time, companies to survive merged and and consolidated to become bigger companies. So increasing the barrier to compete a small startup will now need to go against a mega company. Without having a lot of middle sized companies to work your way up from. Competition is good when you are going against someone bigger then you are, however if there is too much of a gap you are left in the dust without being able to figure out what things to learn from.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re: Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, thanks Obama.

    9. Re:Over regulation by terrycarlino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Would that be the Republicans, not one of which voted for it or had any say in the contents of the bill?

      You can't have it both ways. If the ACA sucks it's because the Democrats passed it. If it's great its because Democrats passed it.

      Anyone with a brain knew that if you make a business take on a large cost for employees who work more than 30 hrs a week all of a sudden there's going to be a lot more employees working 29 hours a week. So now instead of working 32-40 hours a week and not having benefits you get to work 29 hours a week and don't have benefits. So less money and still no benefits.

    10. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps there will come a day when the R's & D's will get together for the betterment of all of us. This constant he said/she said bullshit has grown more than tiresome. Either you're for humanity as a whole or you're one of the greedy fools who's already 'gotten mine', or hope to be one. I personally find the whole charade repugnant, as are those who won't take a dime with them into the next, REAL LIFE. Oh, weren't you all paying attention, you who want it all? This life is the test to see how you act in order to learn what you deserve in the next, actual life. Do unto others as you would have done unto you, but get yours in this one. Christ on a bike! Get it together people!

      Captcha; nonempty

    11. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If all competitors are too big - time to adjust antitrust laws. Don't let corporations grow so big before forcibly breaking them up. You could start by changing anything "too big to fail" into "too big to exist as a single unit".

    12. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have always though of starting my own consulting business. The biggest problem isn't what you have listed, it is finding a Customer base to get my company off the ground.

      Customers want to deal with established companies, knowing they will not be out of business in a year. Offering a product/service they can value over a long time. Also a lot of small companies with limited marketing ability, usually fall under used car salesmen like advertisements which makes them seem like shady individuals to work with.

      The small thing politically that caused this was when George W Bush changed bankruptcy laws, to be more strict on the person/company going bankrupt, raising the cost of failure. But most of what the problem is during the Great Recession time, companies to survive merged and and consolidated to become bigger companies. So increasing the barrier to compete a small startup will now need to go against a mega company. Without having a lot of middle sized companies to work your way up from. Competition is good when you are going against someone bigger then you are, however if there is too much of a gap you are left in the dust without being able to figure out what things to learn from.

      You do realize it was the Democratic Congress that changed the bankruptcy laws? Frank/Dodd and all that stuff

    13. Re: Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make a deal with your current employer.

    14. Re:Over regulation by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 0

      Over regulation, cost of entry, corporate cronies in government, high taxation, have all conspired to hurt small businesses.

      Cool story bro. Have you worked in a small business, or are you parroting things you heard elsewhere?

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    15. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the IP minefields.

      If you wind up hitting a submarine patent, the incumbents can simply come in and take over without a fight, or you wind up in a huge legal battle where they drag out discovery and bleed you dry.

      If you actually do invent something new, chances are the incumbents will offer a low price and require full transfer of all rights to them to complete the deal. If you refuse, see above about the legal battle you'll be faced with. Also, if you do agree to the deal, whatever you've invented is no longer yours and chances are you can't work on it in the future. (At least in anyway that the new owners don't want.)

      If it's a creative work, you better hope you've created a new cord, otherwise you'll have the MAFFIA's finest after you. If it's an interactive piece, you had better hope that King didn't trademark part of the name already, and that your game isn't in a genre that has an asshole publisher / dev team who thinks they've invented it.

      Most people don't bother anymore simply because they don't want to pour their soul into something only to have it taken from them by greedy incumbents. Or wind up in legal debit well past their eyeballs over it.

    16. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off Ivan

    17. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The public has to set the expectations that their elected leaders must meet, and the public is divided, and to a large extent confused and misinformed. And not all in one direction, but some in one direction and some in another. Plus the structural flaws in the Constitution and laws that allow lobbyists to buy lawmakers who need their big campaign contributions to survive. If the public would only assert that it wants a Scandinavian/Canadian-like set of business policies, social policies, and anti-corruption policies, then the lawmakers would be pressured to do it, and representatives who would do it would reach a critical mass. But we're a long way from that. And the misinformation spewing out of parts of the media and social networks and billionaire activists are exacerbating it. But there's always hope, just as there was hope for the American Revolution, Allied victory in WWII, the Marshall Plan and similar endeavors, etc.

    18. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why we love big government. The best government that corporations can buy.

    19. Re:Over regulation by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Find a state that has low cost power, fast internet and nice, safe, clean housing.
      Take a person who has an idea in the USA and welcome them to your state.
      Show them the nice housing. The fast internet. The educated locals.
      What their investment in your state gets. A house, a workplace. Services that support a productive community, roads for transport. Not tent cities and people living in parked RV.
      That they can grow their new idea in your state.

      The startup problem is a problem for a few states that need more tax money to cover their spending.
      Take the good ideas and move to a better state. A city gov that welcomes investment rather than welcomes new taxes.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    20. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The House spent a month marking up 160 amendments, finally voting on the ACA months after work had begun. The Senate Finance Committee had 53 meetings, considered 130 amendments, and had 79 roll call votes. The Senate had 44 hearings and finally voted on it eight months after it left the House. Are you going to honestly say that when it came to one of the biggest pieces of the American economy the Republicans didn't show up to work for the better part of a year? Just how big of a sucker are you?

    21. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newsflash. Humanity is corrupt.

    22. Re:Over regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the reasons the bill got turned into crap is all the stuff they put into it to try to appease the Republicans in the spirit of compromise and working together. Once it became clear the Republicans were going to act like a bunch of children and the bill wasn't going to get a single Republican vote no matter what they did, the Democrats should have just given them the finger and rewrote it from scratch the way it should have been. Stuff like that is the reason Obama turned out be a really lousy president.

  4. Maybe by ogar572 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All of the stupid ideas have been vetted out and new startups are trying stuff that has some potential to succeed which cause fewer companies to start?

  5. Risk vs reward by DalM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Start up risk is huge. That's the problem. It's massive. Sure there are some people that are successful and the risk pays dividends, but success is actually pretty rare. Most rational people look at the risk of starting your own company and shrug it off because simply being an employee is typically not that bad of a deal. In fact, it's really a pretty good deal. Your risk is greatly limited. Most people are perfectly ok with that.

    1. Re:Risk vs reward by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's generally established and I think everyone knows that. The question being put forward is why the rate of people who are taking these risks is decreasing. Have people suddenly become much more risk averse? Is there some kind of economic interference that's resulting in this reduction? Is it just a small dip that happens from time to time for no real discernible reason? Are the number of startups still about the same, but what we're really seeing is a much more rapid failure in startups?

      That few people start their own business is not surprising. What's interesting is that fewer people than usual are doing it.

    2. Re:Risk vs reward by DalM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly I think it's mostly that being a middle-class employee is generally becoming a better trade for the employee. If you have a salaried position (guaranteed reliable and regular pay), have general health benefits, and an IRA or 401K, why would you throw that away just to work harder and be responsible for entire company?

      Being a lower-class employee is getting worse, but those people are less likely to have the ability to raise the funds necessary to start their own companies.

    3. Re:Risk vs reward by terrycarlino · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think a good part of it is regulation. Not just federal regulation either, though a lot of EPA and OSHA and other regulations don't help either.

      Before anybody screams about libertarianism or small-goverment or even socialism lets take a dispassionate look at things.

      In 1960 if you wanted to start a business washing cars you rented a place, hired some people and dumped your dirty water either in the street or the sewers. In other words you externalized your disposal cost.

      The same thing if you had a company that constructed batteries. You dumped your used chemicals somewhere at no cost. You externalized your disposal costs.

      Now the EPA came along and suddenly you have to pay fro proper disposal. Your company is less profitable. The small guys, the ones most likely to running on the edges with little profit now become unprofitable.

      So prohibiting companies from externalizing their disposal cost is good for society, however it does reduce the number of new business that are started because it raises the bar necessary to enter the market. This might be a societal bad, but on balance is better than allow cost externalization that we all pay, in both cost and reduced quality of life.

      Do this for a number of decades and of course you're going to see a decline in the number of new business.

    4. Re:Risk vs reward by DalM · · Score: 1

      But this has limited predictability. For example, how many new advertising consulting businesses are there each year. Of course there are lots, but I bet you would find that the rate of ad agency start-up has similarly decreased significantly over the decades. Can't really blame OSHA or the EPA for that.

    5. Re:Risk vs reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting as AC to prevent any kind of social media blow back...

      About me: I run a small business, am a co-founder of a Start-Up accelerator in my town, have a background in Economics and Business.

      The economy is f-ed up right now. The risks of starting a business (in tech or other sectors) are very high. Profitability timelines aside, there are almost no safety nets or social services (think daycare) for aspiring (or even curious) entrepreneurs to fall back on. 95% of Americas don't have enough in savings to even ATTEMPT to start a small business. It's extremely difficult to raise capital, the amount of circulating $$$ in most areas is extremely low making VC or even micro-VC funds (including crowd sourcing) hard to attain, increasing the risk of raising *just* enough money to fail. Banks don't lend to start-ups, or even small businesses (like mine).

      Adding to that is the yoke of student loans and other debts putting thumb screws to our young's aspirations, reducing the pool of both founders and workers who are willing to risk working at a startup vs keeping their 9-5 with [insert industry specific monopoly here]. There's also increasing social pressure on entrepreneurs; dating is difficult as most partners these days equate "entrepreneur" with "unemployed".

      This is no accident, my fellow /.'ers. Our oligarchs have shaped the economy and markets with years of shitty public schooling and overpriced college degrees. We're still using public schools to churn out drones and workers, instead of thinkers and do'ers. Our American work force (50% of whom earns $30k/year or less) is extremely insecure and have so little spending power and free time to support nascent businesses.

    6. Re:Risk vs reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly I think it's mostly that being a middle-class employee is generally becoming a better trade for the employee. If you have a salaried position (guaranteed reliable and regular pay), have general health benefits, and an IRA or 401K, why would you throw that away just to work harder and be responsible for entire company?

      Over the last 40+ years salaries have consistently declined relative to the cost of living, health care costs have skyrocketed, causing an associated decrease in access, and employer-funded retirements, which used to be ubiquitous, have all but died out, being replaced by employee-funded accounts which frequently decline in value.

      You'd have to go back before WWII, and probably a lot further, to find the last time being a middle-class employee was such a crappy deal.

    7. Re:Risk vs reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Litigation costs are another cause. Thanks to the current patent system, a successful startup may need 3-5 million USD just to fend off patent trolls, etc.

    8. Re:Risk vs reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's a combination of the loss of the middle class and the millennial.

      With the middle class growing smaller and smaller, that leaves low income and high income left. Low income people can't risk their time (valuable) and money (short of) for a high risk scheme. The people that have some money are the ones who have been smart and not taken crazy risks.

      With millennial getting older, they're right at the age of making startups. Many of them have endured a dogshite economy and the ones who have money are the same ones who are 'killing stuff like Chili's, fabric softener, and more. They've been raised on a diet of financial stability. And startups are incredibly risky.

    9. Re:Risk vs reward by DalM · · Score: 1

      All of that is true if you look at the country as a whole. But if you break the country out into classes a different story unfolds. Upper and upper-middle incomes have greatly improved. Healthcare is pretty in America great for those with upper-middle class jobs. Housing selection across the country is great for those with upper-middle incomes.

      The story is very different for those on the lower end of the spectrum, but those people aren't the ones in positions to start-up new companies, which is the point of the original post.

    10. Re:Risk vs reward by layabout · · Score: 1

      you have hit the nail on the head. I'm a volunteer in a local entrepreneur group and we have been trying to figure out why our membership is declining. My long-term suspicion has been that it tracks the availability of a social safety net. I did a quick Google while writing this and found this very interesting article from back in 2015 about how welfare availability makes people more willing to take a risk on starting a business.

      so if we want more startups, more entrepreneurial activity, make sure everybody gets healthcare from the public sector, not from your employer. Make sure food stamps are relatively easy to get. And, try to do something about rent because it's too damn high!

    11. Re:Risk vs reward by Srin+Tuar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Now the EPA came along and suddenly you have to pay fro proper disposal. Your company is less profitable. The small guys, the ones most likely to running on the edges with little profit now become unprofitable.

      Slight adjustment there: The EPA has no problem shielding companies like BP from hundreds of billions in pollution lawsuits, such as wrecking the entire gulf of mexico.

      The EPA working as designed to protect he big polluters from competition.

      If you actually cared about pollution, it would not be solved via regulation but by liability.

      Regulations increase pollution and reduce competition.

    12. Re:Risk vs reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to see some longer-term analysis. I can think of lots of reasons why 1985 might have been an unusually easy time to be starting up a business. What was the picture like in, say, 1965?

    13. Re: Risk vs reward by TuringTest · · Score: 1

      Liability is a form of regulation.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    14. Re: Risk vs reward by DalM · · Score: 1

      That and all of the above listed risks are correct.

      But that was my point. The risks are too high to justify the work.

  6. Corporate Mergers by sdinfoserv · · Score: 0, Troll

    As Trumpkin is busy eviscerating environmental & human protections (you know, those pesky job killing regulations) while reinforcing intellectual property protections for larger corporations, mergers and large companies buying small companies becomes more attractive.

    1. Re:Corporate Mergers by sarren1901 · · Score: 0

      I know it's against the rules to read the article, maybe even the summary, but fewer startups has been a trend over the past 30 years. Trump wishes he had the godlike powers you seem ascribe to him.

      I probably hate Hillary more then you hate Trump, but do I bring it up every thread or even EVER!!! No, so get over it. You should be happy he is pushing so hard for a blue wave that will ideally remove him from office. I could definitely be okay with that, but Pence would be a whole different kind of bad too.

    2. Re:Corporate Mergers by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 2

      I actually didn't hate Hillary so much as I hated the environment that propped her up and the tens of thousands of leeches who expected to profit from her reign or to keep being smug and tell others what to think. I loathed the idea of her being President but at some level I respected her as a person, she was fighting for what she thought was right (her becoming the center of the Universe), and she fought a good fight.

      That she lost is, in my view, not just lucky for us, but for her too -- I believe the power she so craved would have made her mad before the end of the first term.

    3. Re:Corporate Mergers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is truly spectacular how often in these threads someone will let you know they're about to rant about Hillary Clinton, then perfectly describe Donald Trump.

      It is also amazing to me that whenever these ignoramuses complain about her they spout fabricated talking points from Fox News rather than the very real issues she had as a potential President. Those issues do require some thought to understand, so maybe it's just outside their abilities.

      Of course, we can see now that whatever damage she might have done almost certainly would have been less than has already happened. She's definitely got her problems, but burning the country down to prove she can is something she is most unlikely to have done.

      And for the record, my ignorant and moronic friends, she did win the election. That a quirk in the way the Electoral College is used allowed Trump to become President does not change that fact.

  7. The startups I see by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    seem less like an attempt to build a real business and more like an attempt to build something with enough patents and/or engineers for a buyout. I can't say I blame them. Thanks to our weakly enforced anti-trust law if you don't get bought out the big guys can just bury you.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:The startups I see by dyfet · · Score: 2

      indeed, vc's seem only interested in those offering new ways to cheat people (business model innovations), not in new or better ways to actually do real things.

    2. Re:The startups I see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably doesn't help that the people required to make those startups that are actually legitimately building new and useful things are almost always getting the short end of the stick form the VC's.

      The basic deal for a high performing developer at a startup is this: I'll trade job security and take on risk on the condition that if this venture succeeds, I at least get comfortable out of the deal.

      Stock splits and dilutions, pump and dump strategies, and flat out looting by high end execs all too often kill that deal.

      So why should the talented employee take the risk?

  8. so fine it's ok pay some one $2/hr to drive an car by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0

    Over regulation, cost of entry, corporate cronies in government, high taxation, have all conspired to hurt small businesses.

    It's a Democrat/Republican problem though. You cannot pick just one. They are all to blame. If you want a healthy functioning economy with light regulation and sensible government spending & taxation, then you cannot vote for anyone in those two parties.

    so fine it's ok pay some one $2/hr to drive an car for uber with no real power to set there own rates or rules.

  9. The "Economy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The picture you see in financial news places is an odd sort of "Economy" - measured mostly by how much rich people are willing to pay other rich people for a stake in a dwindling number of larger puddles.

    It's kind of the same as the global warming debate. How? Well, to some folks, global warming is just dandy - it's just natural, and fine. The "environment' will still be the about the same to them - and large swaths of life going extinct, well, that's just part of the cycle.

    Why? Because as long as their bubble remains unpopped for the moment, all that potential being killed off around them is insignificant compared to the benefit they're drawing at the moment.

    They're manufacturing a world full of losers, so that they can be one of the winners.

    In previous generations, that would be known as 'evil'.

    1. Re:The "Economy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you are saying is evil has always existed since the dawn of humanity and will likely continue to do so? Well duh.

    2. Re:The "Economy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember, folks, when you start a comment with "so what you are saying", what you are actually saying is "I'm an idiot."

  10. Dodd-Frank by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    All those new IPO expenses really saved the economy!

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re: Dodd-Frank by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glass Stegal would have saved even more!! Like $trillions around the world. Dumbshit

  11. Need too many lawyers to deal with the Regulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too many regulations have made it prohibitively expensive for startups. You need more lawyers than entrepreneurs to get your business started.

  12. Dropping since the mid-eighties? by whitroth · · Score: 0

    Gee, that was in the midst of Raygun and the Republicans' (not my cover band) onslaught of deregulation.

    Btw, those of you who work for a living... has your company been bought lately by a bigger company? Mine's been *twice* in the last three years....

    Meanwhile, the middle class is squeezed tighter and tighter.

    But I can't guess why there are fewer startups....

    1. Re: Dropping since the mid-eighties? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as moneymen agents like Bush, Obama and Clinton have strong support, you will get more if that.

      Globalism is about enriching the moneymen at the expense of patriots.

  13. It all depends on how you look at the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their definition of a startup is a company that is younger than two-years old. All this says is that there aren't as many people starting their own companies right now. What does that have to do with the economy? As long as the unemployment numbers aren't rising, those people are still working. It's just that they are dissatisfied enough with the job that they have to start a new business.

    As far as startups being the "engine" of the economy, that might be true at some points in time. I wouldn't say that is a rule. What likely is a rule is "innovation is the engine of the economy". You might say that startups drive innovation. But startups aren't innovative. The people in them are. People need to be able to satisfy their need to be innovative and they create startups (unless they are allowed to innovate where they are and don't need to create a startup, which might be what is happening now).

    The moral of the story is that we need a better indicator of innovation. The fact that there are fewer startups right now really doesn't say anything about the economy.

  14. High risk, high consequence of failure, low reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Large corporations (universally) set up economic and legal barriers-to-entry to protect their own interests. These barriers stifle startups before they can even start up. Inasmuch as this strategy is successful, we would expect to see fewer startups in an economy dominated by a handful of giants.

    As it stands now, one must be kind of crazy, and kind of stupid, to attempt a start up. Getting your foot in the economic door requires you to work yourself to death while taking on considerable risk, including risking your personal finances and those of supportive friends and family. And the odds against success are overwhelming. And when you fail, you fail hard, all that money lost and you broke, in debt, and with nothing to show for it (and brain-damaged from all the stress and humiliation of failure).

    It is simply not rational to attempt a startup in this environment. As an aside, this explains why the proprietors of so many small-to-medium sized businesses tend to be kind of crazy and a bit stupid....only such people even consider jumping into this game these days.

  15. Seems self-contradicting by mi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am having a hard time reconciling the following two parts of the write-up: "Historically, startups have been the engine of US economy" vs. "While companies that were less than two years old made up about 13% of all companies in 1985, they only accounted for 8% in 2014". Even at their highest number of 13% during the, supposedly, "good old days", how can they be considered "the engine"?..

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Seems self-contradicting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The larger companies rarely come out with new, non-iterative changes. Instead, they buy startups to acquire new products. Startups keep us moving forward instead of companies only trying to strengthen their grip on their existing market.

    2. Re:Seems self-contradicting by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am having a hard time reconciling the following two parts of the write-up: "Historically, startups have been the engine of US economy" vs. "While companies that were less than two years old made up about 13% of all companies in 1985, they only accounted for 8% in 2014". Even at their highest number of 13% during the, supposedly, "good old days", how can they be considered "the engine"?..

      Engine is probably the wrong word, maybe fertiliser or seed is better. With less fertiliser or seed you eventually produce less food. This will have consequences sooner or later.

    3. Re:Seems self-contradicting by mi · · Score: 1

      Is "fertilizer" really a better word for something — anything — you'd wish to praise?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:Seems self-contradicting by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Is "fertilizer" really a better word for something — anything — you'd wish to praise?

      Is Fertiliser not a good thing where you live? Strange comment....

  16. total # of companies? flawed study by ole_timer · · Score: 2

    The study does not say how many total companies there were/are, and has that grown so that the # of startups is actually the same. or larger?

    --
    nothing to see here - move along
    1. Re:total # of companies? flawed study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      per capita of each could be interesting.

  17. Risk/Reward by lamer01 · · Score: 1

    The large tech giants pay so much that it skews the Risk/Reward of any startup-minded person. Usually start ups were created by people that did not see a payroll job as good enough and took the risk of starting their own. Now, even people on the bottom tier of a tech giant make a very good living. Very hard to give that up.

    1. Re:Risk/Reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, the tech giants are currently making money off the startups. How much of AWS' business or Microsoft Azure's business is startups deploying the latest hot AI-powered blockchain-enabled devops pipeline enhanced machine learning solution?

    2. Re: Risk/Reward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are a startup and enrich Amazon, that is your own fault.

      Be truly innovative and you avoid bloat.

  18. Predictable result.... by JoeDuncan · · Score: 1

    ...of gutting education and immigration.

  19. Being a dying breed ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... is the whole point about "StartUps".
    Fail fast is the motto and the most fail.
    Something like 98%.
    So this is news how?

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  20. Top-of-bubble consolidation maybe? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "While companies that were less than two years old made up about 13% of all companies in 1985, they only accounted for 8% in 2014. From around 1998 to 2010, the share of private sector workers in companies that were less than two years old plummeted from more than 9% to less than 5%. "

    This makes sense given the timeline. In the mid-80s everyone was experimenting and you had tons of small companies chipping away at the monolithic UNIX/mainframe computing culture...as well as a few manufacturers actually making physical goods. From 1998 to 2010, you had the top of Dotcom Bubble 1.0, followed by the financial crisis in 2010, so you go from 8% at the height to 5% at the start of the recovery cycle. Then in 2014, you have the inflation of the Second Dotcom Bubble which (IMO) we're nearing the top of. plus smartphones and social media really go nuts from 2010 to 2014, hence the increase to 8%.

    My opinion is that startups aren't sticking around very long, simply because they're easier to cobble together from outsourced parts. SaaS providers offer HR, finance, payment acceptance, logistics, and IT in a box. Cloud providers will host your workloads for a monthly fee which the VCs probably like a lot, because they slowly burn money rather than give millions at a time to build data centers and such. So, some guy building Yet Another Provisioning Tool or Yet Another Abstraction Layer on JavaScript can follow the First Dotcom Bubble playbook on an accelerated timeline...either they get big enough to IPO, or get bought by Microsoft/Facebook/Google/Netflix.

    The other thing that might be driving this is just the sheer risk involved. Despite what the media portrays about SV startups, they are not stable places to work. It's great when you're fresh out of college and can continue the lifestyle...getting paid in free food and doing 100 hour weeks in the office with your buddies. But when you grow up, steady paychecks have a huge appeal, especially when you have a family.

  21. Re:Need too many lawyers to deal with the Regulati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not regulations. It's all those patents (especially software patents).

    If you try to start something up, you get a massive amount of patent claims from the big "have-them-all" company's.
    You can then choose to pay licenses that will make you bankrupt, of ignore it and get enough lawyers on your back to get bankrupt.
    Whatever you choose, they will destroy everyone that tries something new, because there is always "something" they have patented.
    The only thing you can hope for is a buyout, but other than that - Forget about starting something new.

  22. So what? by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

    It's an interesting fragment of trivia, but how's the larger picture?

    The economy is booming.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Is it? Last time I checked unemployment was down, but wages are still stagnant.

      The "economy" is booming if you have millions of dollars, if you are middle class or under, "the economy" being in a "boom" or a "bust" doesn't really matter since you are still treading water with far less buying power than your parent's generation.

      https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-arent-growing-in-america

      You'll also note a line in that article that links the two ideas you flippantly disregarded: one factor that encourages large wage growth is young companies. High numbers of start-ups and younger companies tend to drive wages up. Without this competition, larger / older companies don't pay as well.

      The "economy" isn't really booming-- the people at the top have simply found new ways to siphon more money off the lower and middle classes. Welcome to the end game of capitalism, we've managed to stay here a lot longer this time without the lower classed players breaking out the guillotine. I'm not really keen on seeing the end of this round, but I feel like we aren't as far away as I thought we were.

    2. Re: So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you believe the monied elite, Trump IS the guillotine for their corrupt ways of business.

    3. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh fuck off Ivan. Or should I say Karl?

    4. Re:So what? by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1

      Maybe we should break out the guillotines. Why? It sure as hell seemed to work for the French. Wages for laborers, artisans, and tradespeople went up dramatically after they scared the living shit out of the rich folks. Start with the billionaires and see if the millionaires feel like un-assing a bit more wages. I bet it wouldn't take many heads in a basket to convince them wages need to rise and the H1B assholes need to go home.

    5. Re:So what? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Have you noticed how many of the most vocal proponents of minimum basic income are tech billionaires?

      They're the ones who know where tech is going, are smart enough to realize the societal implications, and are aware that it's good to be rich, but not good to be TOO rich when a bunch of poor people are getting desperate.

    6. Re:So what? by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1
      Agreed. Too bad the old-school industrialists don't seem to have the same fear. The tech billionaires have their foibles, too. They lobby to let in tens of thousands H1Bs then give their arrange-married-spouses a backdoor work permit, too (and lefty-trolls don't tell me this doesn't happen. I'm a hiring manager - fucking WATCH it happen personally), and won't stop until job growth in tech is less than or equal to the H1B immigration level. I feel sorry for American kids who hear "Go into STEM" only to find out that their job is already taken by some asshole from India. However, they can't get out of the student loans even if they die (they'll come after your "estate" such as it may be and take it from your inheritors). Sounds a lot like pre-revolutionary French aristocracy to me:
      • Debt Bondage: Check
      • Fat cats bringing in foreign labor: Check.
      • Wages stagnating and falling: Check
      • Fat cats in control of the government and using power to fund idiotic wars: Check
      • Guilds taking over trades and locking out newcomers: Check
      • Bankrupt zombie finances at the government level: Check
      • Fake news and rumors spreading on all political sides: Check

      About the only non-parallel was the fact that bad crop yields had caused a lot of hunger in France at the time. As a student of history, I believe that's one of the most potent triggers. If people can't feed their kids they will do just about anything, including killing anyone who might be to blame.

      Lovely invention, the guillotine.

    7. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *reported* unemployment is down.

  23. Venture capital vs. small business loan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happened to the traditional way of starting a business?

    1. Re:Venture capital vs. small business loan by terrycarlino · · Score: 2

      It got regulated out of existence. You need the VC money just to be able to hire the lawyers and tax accountants so you can start a business without other lawyers and the IRS putting out of business before you even come to market.

  24. Publish to App Store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then the Project Manager at the large company sees a new idea. A new project is proposed in the company with infinite funding. Original App goes out of business since there is no visibility or marketing budget or resources. In a twisted way, people are doing free R&D for large corps.

    1. Re: Publish to App Store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh, most corpos are too slow to react and too much entrechned in their way of thinking to be a real threat to trur innovatotors.

      Also they refuse to see the gems they have in front of them if it does not shine at the perfect corporate wavelength.

      The opportunities are still plenty for those who mange to attract capital and customers.

  25. GDPR is not that much of a pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you respected its predecessor law chance is that you are fully golden.

    1. Re:GDPR is not that much of a pain by Okind · · Score: 1

      If you respected its predecessor law chance is that you are fully golden.

      Although many companies are loath to admin it, this is spot on!

  26. You hate Clinton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never met her.

    Unfortunately, in our country we only have a binary choice for President. And our job as the electorate was to choose the person who is most qualified for the job and lead this country and our government.

    Clinton was the better choice.

    With Trump, we don't have a leader. He's making a fool out of us on the World stage. He's shooting the country in the foot economically.
    And he spending all this time and resources on piddly little things. What he's doing about the immigrants and their children is appalling.
    Illegal immigration was never that big a deal. It was blown out of proportion by right-wing media because their audience of old white male conservatives like it that way.

    And the Evangelical Christians losers who continually support him have shown themselves to be stupid, hypocritical, disgusting human beings.

    Others voted for him for change and he's doing everything but.

    And then the Republicans who are a bunch of pussies won't stand up to him because the Republican base is a bunch of ignorant Bible thumping morons who still think the orange orangutan in the Whitehouse is going to save them - they are just too ignorant to understand that Trump is a member of the very small group of people who are shafting them but they want to continue to believe the nonsense that it's immigrants and leftists and progressives who are keeping them down.

    The Republicans have shown that they cannot govern or lead. They just have vapid talking points for the ignorant masses to gobble down.

    1. Re:You hate Clinton? by HornWumpus · · Score: 0

      Clinton was OPENLY selling influence. Her supporters still lie for her. That would have been a very dangerous line to cross. It's not that the system wasn't corrupt before Clinton, it's that Clinton was doing dirt right out in the open and her supporters didn't care, because 'vagina'.

      Is there a non-corrupt explanation for why the bribe flow into the Clinton global fund went to virtually zero, just when she had time for charitable work? I haven't heard it.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:You hate Clinton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazing. Every word you just said is wrong.

    3. Re:You hate Clinton? by terrycarlino · · Score: 2

      Clinton was the better choice.

      Actually she wasn't. She was and is a horribly flawed candidate, who only got the nomination because the DNC subverted their own primary process. You want to know the real reason she lost? She T'ed off enough Bernie Sanders voters by stealing the primary from him that they stayed home.

      With Trump, we don't have a leader. He's making a fool out of us on the World stage.

      He's doing that how? Let me tell you something about the world stage. Nobody is your friend. Each and every world leader is more interested in their own people than in anyone else's people. As they should be. I didn't elect Angela Merkel and I don't expect her to take into account whether her policies are good for me or not. Likewise it's not Trump's job to make Germans or Brits or Canadians happy. Likewise Putin doesn't have my best interest at heart, and I don't expect him too. That doesn't make him evil (or not evil for that matter.) That just makes him not someone I would expect to do good things for me.

      Illegal immigration was never that big a deal. It was blown out of proportion by right-wing media because their audience of old white male conservatives like it that way.

      There are only seven states in the United States that have populations higher than the total number of illegal immigrants in the US. To me that sounds like a pretty big problem.

      I suspect the parents of children killed by illegal immigrants might think it's a pretty big problem too. If you think they're mostly old white people let me fix that for you. Most of them are Hispanic. And they're being killed by gang members who are making their neighborhoods unsafe places to be. Maybe your nice upper middle class neighborhood doesn't have this problem.

      And the Evangelical Christians losers who continually support him have shown themselves to be stupid, hypocritical, disgusting human beings.

      So we've established that you're into identity politics. Would you care to make a comment about Jews or African Americans now?

      Others voted for him for change and he's doing everything but.

      I suggest you take a look at what he's done. Basically he's actually keeping his campaign promised, which is terrifying both mainstream Democrats and Republicans. A politician actually keeping his campaign promises is certainly a change.

      And then the Republicans who are a bunch of pussies won't stand up to him because the Republican base is a bunch of ignorant Bible thumping morons who still think the orange orangutan in the Whitehouse is going to save them - they are just too ignorant to understand that Trump is a member of the very small group of people who are shafting them but they want to continue to believe the nonsense that it's immigrants and leftists and progressives who are keeping them down.

      It's nice to see you are so tolerant of people who disagree with you. The "keeping me down" mantra is the mantra of the left, not the right. No one thinks illegals are keeping them down. No one thinks illegals are taking their jobs. No one thinks progressives are keeping them down.

      What people who disagree with you see is vast numbers of people advocating ignoring laws they either cannot or will not change, creating what is likely to become a lawless society. I don't need Trump or any one else to save me, except from the policies that people like you would impose on me at the point of a government goon's gun, after you take mine away.

      The Republicans have shown that they cannot govern or lead. They just have vapid talking points for the ignorant masses to gobble down.

      Looks to me like you're the one ignorantly parroting talking points. I don't agree with everything Trump has done, but at least I fully believe he's the one calling the shots in the White House, not some unelected political adviser, like the last empty suit-in-chief or the husband-in-chief that we ducked in the last election, could you sure don't think Hillary was going to be running things do you? She couldn't even keep track of Bill.

    4. Re:You hate Clinton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny and sad that you can replace "Clinton" with "Trump" and "vagina" with "MAGA" and your statement is equally true.

    5. Re:You hate Clinton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAH where did you get that line about "only 7 states have a population larger than the number of illegal immigrants"?? That is a true laugh riot, as I regularly parrot lines like that on my fake news site I run to mine cryptocurrency and serve ads on your browser. Looks like you've been giving me money :) . I appreciate it, and so does antifa as 50% of my (rather large) profits directly fund antifa. Thank you!

    6. Re:You hate Clinton? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Really? Bullshit!

      Trump was collecting millions/year in bribes in a charity fund? That fund's cash flow was affected by the election?

      You could have believed the 'Clinton Global Fund' was legit, until after she lost the election and all the bribes dried up. Now you're just lying to yourself and acting a fool.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  27. Re:High risk, high consequence of failure, low rew by ChrisMaple · · Score: 0

    Many small businesses are started by people who don't get along well with others. Always mouth off to the boss? You'll get fired, and after a few repetitions nobody will hire you and you have to work for yourself. Same for people who are rude to customers or co-workers, or people who are grouchy or always complaining.

    Similarly, some businesses are started by people who think they know how to run a particular type of business than anyone else. A few of them are correct.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  28. NOPE by sexconker · · Score: 0

    Historically, startups have been the engine of US economy.

    NOPE! When you start with that, you're just telling everyone with a brain to tune the fuck out.

  29. Re: so fine it's ok pay some one $2/hr to drive a by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

    The biggest thing I don't understand in this is how people come from south of the border that can't even legally get a job, yet they manage to find enough income to be able to afford to live in a house with money to spare, and still they don't rely on shitty Uber. You know why? Because they actually...try...

  30. Chances to be sued by Parker+Lewis · · Score: 1

    The way the patent system is in US, any company trying to invent/improve anything without the giants (Facebook, Google, Microsoft) blessing, probably will be sued by them about about any stupid licensed stuff.

  31. Re: so fine it's ok pay some one $2/hr to drive by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

    Bleh, edited that poorly, meant I don't understand why some say they rely on Uber, and yet...

  32. Every damn week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's "Starup boom is crazy" "Startup this and that" "Starup central here and there"

    I don't believe this at all

  33. BlockChain AI Cloud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone can be a startup.

    People just want to have, "AI" , or "Blockchain", or "Cloud" and get all kinds of money.

    Some people are getting wise to this.

    But then again, nobody ever got poor banking on american greed and stupidity.

  34. "Pig in the Python" effect? by Steve1952 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An additional contributing factor might demographics. Consider the baby boomer population. This is often called the "Pig in the Python". During the 1990's, there were a large number of educated baby boomers in their 30's, in an environment where there were fewer open slots of any type above them. So there may have been a greater incentive to "create your own slot" by doing a startup.

  35. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is worse post-dotcom-bubble with options not being valuable (+20k to +40k USD normally, unless your startup becomes the next Google, and that amount doesn't compensate for the lower salary typically provided at a startup) and startup companies taking much longer (more than 10 years instead of 4 years max). The presence of less startups may be the lack of profitability and the fact they have become a source of comedy in both book and tv show form (for very valid reasons). Also, consider that the US Federal Reserve is currently increasing interest rates... that means the long period of "free money" is ending and investors can shift money into things with more reliable returns than the bratty millennial businesses would ever provide.

  36. The U.S. economy is recovering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The average company now has a life expectancy of more than three years.

    1. Re:The U.S. economy is recovering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks Obama!

  37. non-competes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much of this is the ubiquity of non-competes that exist? It used to be rare, now pretty much everybody and the janitor has one. And who is starting these startups, if not people in the same industry thinking they can do a better job than their current boss? I don't think it is a complete coincidence that california is the home of startup culture, and non-competes are illegal there. Other states would be smart to follow suit, I think.

  38. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of the "startups" are a couple of guys who rent some office space and print business cards. Their "product" is an app that generates "kitty cat" emojis for Android. These guys are convinced they are the next multibillionaire silicon valley succcess story.

    I don't want to hear about any company whose business plan is built around an "app".

  39. Regulatory Capture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Governments continue to strangle small businesses with tiresome burdens.

    Latest example is this bogus SCOTUS ruling about now every business can be subject to sales tax of every other state.

    Not only is this an onerous burden on small businesses, to pay taxes for a state you in which you don't reside is literally Taxation Without Representation.

    Regulatory burdens of all kinds are absolutely killing small businesses, which makes the buyouts from large players all that more lucrative.

    1. Re:Regulatory Capture by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

      "Regulatory burdens of all kinds are absolutely killing small businesses, which makes the buyouts from large players all that more lucrative."

      I deal with lots of "entrepreneurs" who constantly repeat this refrain over and over. What regulation is killing a business? Paperwork is handled by accounting software. Collecting sales tax is done via your POS software or online merchant processor, and you can even pay them online as well. Minimum wage is just something business owners have to live with...if you can't make ends meet paying someone minimum wage then you shouldn't be in business or just do the work yourself.

      There's no burden. Business owners already get a huge free pass that salaried employees don't...the ability to make up their own income numbers and overstate expenses. Literally every small business owner I've ever seen is passing all of his/her personal expenses through their business entity. The company owns their houses, cars, etc. and they pay themselves a tiny salary.

  40. Re:High risk, high consequence of failure, low rew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice one Ivan.

  41. Re:High risk, high consequence of failure, low rew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would wager that most of them know how to run a business better than their bosses if they are coming from large corporations. Bosses in large corporations know how to do politics, not run a business.

  42. Large startup communities outside of the USA by ArcticBunny · · Score: 0

    Maybe its just that the rest of the world is catching up to the USA in fostering startups and people are not coming to the US as much as they did in the past to start up a company?

  43. Lim n-infty by lucasnate1 · · Score: 1

    Given enough time, unrestrained capitalism ends with oligopoly

  44. Demographics is Destiny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    White deaths outpacing white births now, how's the startup economy in Mexico?

  45. Re:So what? It's a good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha Ha nice one Ivan

  46. "Intellectual Property" Monopolies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the inevitable result of the rise of intellectual property. At one time people creating new knowledge got a brief head start to reward them for their success. Now they get a virtually permanent ownership that they can use to prevent effective competition or new use or extensions of their idea. Disney created Mickey Mouse 80 years ago and it still holds a monopoly on the use of Mickey. But that is trivial compared to the impact of technology patents that effectively create monopoly businesses with the ability to stifle all competition. How would someone start a new company in competition with Amazon, Microsoft or Facebook? The answer is they can't, but the monopoly business is not limited to those handful of mega-companies. Instead it runs all the way down the ladder to small startups. If you can't create a monopoly, you don't have a business.

  47. Outdated measure of entrepreneurship? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps the metric of "number of companies" is less relevant now that people with an entrepreneurial bent can do Task Rabbit, Uber, AirBnB, Etsy, Ebay, Kickstarter, etc. Entrepreneurs no longer need to form a traditional "company" to do their startup-y thing.

  48. Because of the lack of TAXES by stooo · · Score: 1

    The problem is in fact that the big companies do not pay any taxes.
    That makes them much more competitive than small ones, and the small ones disappear.
    Tax the big ones, as it once was, it will be much more balanced.

    --
    aaaaaaa
    1. Re:Because of the lack of TAXES by mixed_signal · · Score: 1

      Companies used to be taxed much more, esp. in the "good old days" of the 1950's and 1960's.

  49. American Idol + Oligarch worship has killed it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The results follow the incentive structure. We reward drama and marketing and oligarchs, not innovators. There are basically no incentives for innovation in the US. You're better off getting a salary job (like in Japan. Hmmm) than taking on the immense personal risk necessary to go up against the behemoth oligopolies, rampant copying of ideas, patent portfolios of the well funded. Add to that the fact that the most aggressive dumb assholes end up at the top of any pecking order and you find innovators hiding out at big companies counting the days to retirement and keeping their heads down

  50. It's the cloud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It used to be that to have a "startup" you needed lots of $$$, but now you can get started for free. I assume they aren't counting sole proprietor businesses.

  51. Interesting statistic by jon3k · · Score: 1

    So we went from 13% of the population in 1985, when there were 237.9MM people in the US to 8% of the population in 2014 when there are approximately 318.6MM people. So from 31MM people in 1985 to 25.5MM in 2014.

    But with that said, we were coming out of a recession. There's probably a considerable lag time. Anecdotally, the economy would need to be pretty healthy for quite a while before I'd risk working for a startup. So I'd be interested to see statistics in the 2020-2025 time frame. I'm not panicing yet.

  52. Corporate Agility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another consideration is that larger corporations are now able to create, and execute new ideas just as fast as startups. People used to be baffled concerning how slowly businesses would implement technology, but that seems to have changed. Not across the board, but where it counts.

  53. Blame goes to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The blame goes to:

    1. Large corporations that see the small companies, steal their ideas and crush them with 'legal' bills when they try to protect themselves.
    2. The amount of government red tape. At least Trump is trying to remove some of the crap but if you try to start a business in the west, especially Californication that requires the usage of land get ready for at least a FULL YEAR of paper work and delays before getting approval.

  54. Insurance Cost by laughingskeptic · · Score: 1

    I was just looking into starting a company because I have an opportunity to pursue a $1M/year contract. I found myself inundated with ridiculously bad insurance "offers". Initial quotes for insurance came to $35k/employee for three people ... more than 10% of my projected annual revenue for the first year. I know there are other options, like co-employment companies but have not finished working through these details yet. CPA and legal fees are a drop in the bucket compared to insurance for a small business that has actual employees. There is a forcing function here that is not accounted for in the statistics presented in the article and I believe that the growing number of people working for startups as "independent contractors" offsets some of the perceived differences.

  55. Re:How does companies succeeding account for it? by ranton · · Score: 1

    I wonder if it is just caused by less companies failing. If you look at the number of companies being started each year (source), it has been failure steady over the past 20 years. Maybe the share of companies which are younger than 2 years is a symptom of less companies failing. If company failure rates were higher in the decades preceding 1985, then of course young companies would be larger percentage of all companies.

    Could this just be a case of playing with statistics to create a good headline for a story?

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  56. I call BS by rsilvergun · · Score: 0

    I know plenty of folks who ran small businesses and the tax and regulation paper work weren't bad at all. You do want to hire a lawyer for your incorporation but that's not because the gov't makes it hard but because if you screw it up and get sued by a private person/company and you're paperwork is off they can pierce the corporate veil and take your stuff.

    Other than that and the most odious regulation I remember seeing a small business suffer through was having to throw electronic waste in the right pile at the dump when I worked for a small computer shop.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  57. It's cost of failure, not regulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a ton of people blathering about regulations. It's not regulations. Most of those are common sense, honestly. Don't dump your waste in a river. Duh. Don't abuse your employees. Duh. Don't operate unsafe working conditions. Duh.

    It's not the cost of regulations. It's the cost of failure and it's the cost of healthcare.

    I just tried to start a small business. I got as far as seeking funding, multiple visits to the SBA, my business plan was all polished up. I had the numbers run.... Hell, I WANTED to give my employees health insurance, because DUH, I want healthy workers.

    We really need better safety nets in America. If my business failed, my family would be homeless or saddled with huge debt. The PITA of trying to shop for health insurance for employees is a PITA that's NOT in my business. I don't know! And I don't want to waste my time shopping for health insurance! I wouldn't have to if we had single payer or some other national health insurance scheme.

    And I would have had to quit my job... and there's that health insurance thing again. I have kids. I can't NOT have health insurance. And I don't have guarantees on the first year of my business. If I can't find clients....

    I'm pretty sick of dumbasses here talking about regulations. The only regulation that I ran into that caused me more work was having to have a wall between wood tools and welding equipment so we didn't start a fire. Duh. Regulations were NOT a problem. Uncertainty and the cost of failure, mainly due to health insurance, WAS. All these dumbasses are talking like they know, but they don't. They're spouting ideology without any practical experience.

    1. Re:It's cost of failure, not regulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can have mass immigration or you can have nice things. Universal insurance is one of those nice things.

  58. the world according to 1998 by epine · · Score: 1

    Excellent choice of end-point. Fucking morons.

    Nortel market cap rivals IBM29 June 2000

    With about 2.9 billion common shares outstanding, Brampton, Ont.-based Nortel is now being valued at $200.6-billion. That fell just short of IBM's total valuation of $201.7-billion at the end of the day yesterday.

  59. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  60. Student Debt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cost of education is far too high in the US today (should be free).
    Students carry much larger debts today than in the past.
    The priority is to have a good paying job now to pay that debt off.
    Young people cannot afford to take the risk of undertaking startups with so much debt.

  61. Re: High risk, high consequence of failure, low re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Startups have always been difficult and for minority. It's nothing like running a business.

    What we see here are the exceptions, like mom & pop, which got impossible over time due to corps and globalization.

  62. It's being stolen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A facet of physics revolving around the entanglement of photons (and the correleation of them) = allows all the idea's of small entreprenuers to be stolen by the big companies that control the PE infrastructure. Thus, startups are history.

  63. 3 things changed in Austin Texas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    4 things changed in Austin Texas which reduced VC/investor opportunities:
    - Rent-able office space like WeWork appeared in the last few years. Many that use these services are people with no external investment.
    - Established vc/investors are leery of social applications or businesses based on integration with a 3rd-party API.
    - The young social justice warriors cant give a pitch, don't understand the concept of revenue, rarely create readable documents, and don't dress particularly professional. In essence, the current wave asking for an investment are such a joke that no one with any money wants to hear them anymore.
    - No team evaluation is performed. Investors used to be interested in who would create the technology and who would lead the company. Now the investment community seems to want to plan and control their companies behind closed doors.

  64. Re: so fine it's ok pay some one $2/hr to drive an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Millions? Try hundreds :P

    The homeless problem in red states is much worse, since the percentage of population affected is drastically higher. Think 8-10% compared to the 2-3% in California.

  65. Blame big biz... by martinfb · · Score: 1

    This is a no-brainer: Big Biz is, by far, the leading culprit.

    Think about it. Do the easy research. Big biz either swallows-up those startups early (usually hostile takeover),
    or squashes them (via product/patent theft, direct interference/manipulation, etc...) before they can get established.

    Not to mention the difficulty in getting startup capital.

    This is why big biz needs tighter regulation.
    History has shown that big biz gets less and less individual-friendly as it gets bigger.

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  66. Re: How does companies succeeding account for it? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    What if the reason for fewer startups is the fact that large oligopolies will buy up his ideas and compete with him or her. Have a good idea about some feature in your field of expertise a very rich competitor will likely buy you up or copy your idea and keep you from growing or even remaining in business.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada