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Researchers Fish Yellowcake Uranium From the Sea With a Piece of Yarn (ieee.org)

Wave723 shares a report from IEEE Spectrum: Researchers at the U.S. Energy Department's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) and LCW Supercritical Technologies made use of readily available acrylic fibers to pull five grams of yellowcake -- a powdered form of uranium used to produce fuel for nuclear power reactors -- from seawater. The milestone, announced in mid-June, follows seven years of work and a roughly US $25 million investment by the federal energy agency. Another $1.15 million is being channeled to LCW as it attempts to scale up the technique for commercial use. The effort builds on work by Japanese researchers in the late 1990s and was prompted by interest in finding alternative sources of uranium for a future time when terrestrial sources are depleted. "[U]ranium in seawater shows up in concentrations of around 3.3 parts per billion," the report notes. "With a total volume estimated at more than 4 billion tons, there is around 500 times more uranium in seawater than in land-based sources."

126 comments

  1. See? by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    See? Nuclear power is 100% safe! It is natural: it comes from the sea. Pumping the radioactive waste back into the sea will just return it to its natural state.

    1. Re:See? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 0

      I'm going to assume that's sarcasm, yellow-cake and the waste from a nuclear power station are very different things.

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    2. Re:See? by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Informative

      This proves we can dump the waste back into the ocean where it came from. The solution to pollution is dilution, and at 4 billions tons, the ocean is a great diluter

      Dilution doesn't work with dumping because of currents and bioaccumulation. We figured that out in the 1970s. You are cordially invited to join us in this millennium.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:See? by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      As opposed to that unnatural stuff that comes from the ground?

    4. Re:See? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Funny

      We all know only good things come from the sea. Like seafood and mermaids. Unless the uranium in the ground is certified organic, I would stay away from it.

    5. Re:See? by Memnos · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong basically everywhere. First, the Earth's oceans are not 4 billion tons, that's the estimated quantity of yellowcake in the Earth's oceans. The Earth's oceans are about 1.4 quintillion metric tons, so you were off by about 9 orders of magnitude. Second, see drinkypoo's reply.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    6. Re:See? by Memnos · · Score: 1

      You need to study up on frickin' sharks with lasers. Studies have shown that they are not good things.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    7. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1. Currents have very little coverage.

      2. Because that was never concentrated. Sure if we atomize the waste and distribute it evenly across the ocean you are correct. But you know we'd just dump it in a few spots.

    8. Re:See? by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      yellowcake does not bioaccumulate.

    9. Re:See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fukushima shows that you are wrong. All that nuclear waste was dispersed into the ocean and there have been no problems. Didn't even cause a single fish kill.

    10. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to the nuclear regulatory commission. There solution for pollution is dilution. Go Duke power!

    11. Re:See? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Like seafood and mermaids.

      For some of us . . . mermaids are seafood . . .

      . . . you insensitive clod, or our new overlord or something like that . . .

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    12. Re:See? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      yellowcake does not bioaccumulate.

      Yellowcake goes IN, what you dump comes OUT. HTH, HAND!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Currents have very little coverage.

      So the Great Garbage Patch is in the mid Pacific because that's where the garbage was dumped? I don't think so. Ocean currents do a pretty good job of mixing across the entire planet.

      It would be really nice if environmental science could be made to conform to the same laws of physics that everything else does.

    14. Re:See? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      How so?

    15. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Eh? The great garbage patch is where ocean currents naturally concentrate solid waste fom many diverse sources. That's kind of the opposite of dispersion.

    16. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is really convenient then because we know all the junk will go to one spot and keep everything else clean. We should dump more in the ocean now that we know it is ok.

    17. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are really bad at logic. Currents are much more complicated than "it goes there, that stays there."

    18. Re:See? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So why isn't that an issue with the naturally occurring yellowcake?

      Bioaccumulation is a valid point, because nuclear waste is a different isotopic mix from the original uranium oxide. Bioaccumulating organisms see plutonium as being chemically like calcium, for example.

      We shouldn't be "dumping" the waste anywhere, but building full-burnup reactors to extract all of the energy from it, which is the "radioactive for thousands of years" part. What's left will be a few useless isotopes that we can drop down a borehole in igneous rock, whereupon they will fade to background in about 300 years.

    19. Re:See? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      First off, yellow cake is unrefined, a lot of work has to be done to get the right isotopes out.

      And then when the fuel goes through fission, numerous other isotopes of different elements are created, all with varying half-lives and emitting different radiation of varying levels. Depleted uranium is radio-active for billions of years and it's extremely toxic.

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    20. Re:See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't it be better to just put a little bit in each disposable pen made and hand them out for everybody to lose?

    21. Re:See? by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      Your idea of boreholes for waste has some merit, there is a company that's trying to do it now for decentralized long-term waste storage.

      http://www.deepisolation.com/

      Full Burnup reactors are cool thing, but nuclear proliferation concerns coupled with their requirement for a higher % enriched fuel mean they are probably a non-starter. You could build them in one of the current nuclear powers, but non-nuke countries are cut off from it.

    22. Re:See? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      there is a company that's trying to do it now for decentralized long-term waste storage.

      What is the point of waste storage being "decentralized"?

      Why wouldn't it make more sense to pick the most geologically stable location and put it all there, so we only have one site to monitor?

    23. Re:See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do we do with radio active wast from power plants? We store them in large cisterns of water. We do this because water is a very good shield. The Russians sink old retired submarines in the deep ocean with their reactors fueled because it is cheaper and safer to do this rather than decommission the reactors by taking them apart piece by piece and then locking the waste in a vault someplace to be found by some kid in 20 years.

      I have an ancestral hatred of Russia and love for everything USAian, but I have to admit that the Russian do nuclear power better than the USA does.
      The future belongs to the strong and brave.
       

    24. Re:See? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Depleted uranium is radio-active for billions of years

      DU is only mildly radioactive, about 60% the level of natural uranium, and emits mostly alpha particles, which don't penetrate the skin. If you have a warehouse full of DU, the biggest risk is accumulation of radon, which can be prevented with a ventilation fan.

      and it's extremely toxic.

      It isn't really all that toxic in practice. In high enough concentrations, uranium can cause kidney problems. Ingesting or inhaling uranium dust can cause cancer. But dust does not easily form, and people working with DU usually just wear gloves, and don't bother with respirators or filter masks, unless they are directly involved with milling or machining operations.

      DU is mostly used for sabot penetrators and other kinetic energy weapons. It is also used in armor, radiation shielding, and counterweights.

    25. Re:See? by WhiplashII · · Score: 1

      Obviously not organic!

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      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    26. Re:See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where is the uranium cake fish that has been bio accumulating it for eons?
      Or maybe it works different than you think.

    27. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cannot tell who is the bigger dumbass, you or the poster. I'm leaning towards you. You are actually arguing with this guy. He is taking every response you type and flipping it around to be "good". You cannot see this apparently. I mean, you're technically correct, but that isn't what zee troll is doing. But hey if it makes you feel good, carry on. I just wanted to make sure you actually knew you were being played like a cheap harpsichord.

    28. Re:See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quintillion isn't a word, dumbass. Stop making up imaginary animals!

    29. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks Ivan. Now you can go back to making poorly written posts about how Putin is Jesus incarnate.

    30. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but he also facilitated my more thought out replies. That experience is worth bring dragged around a bit.

      Now people have given my post a +1 even though it's wasted on an AC and nothing to le gay troll.

      And no I was not being played...if I was he didn't play me well enough to get or stop me from getting points. So le troll failed hard.

    31. Re:See? by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      DU is soooooo safe, particularly when used in armor piercing slugs where it catches fire, which is what it's designed to do. Then the toxic and radioactive particles can disperse into the environment where it's absorbed by people or whatever. There's no problem because it's less radioactive then non-depleted uranium, although it's very toxic.

      Can your say Gulf War Syndrome:

      Increased rates of immune system disorders and other wide-ranging symptoms, including chronic pain, fatigue and memory loss, have been reported in over one quarter of combat veterans of the 1991 Gulf War. Combustion products from depleted uranium munitions are being considered as one of the potential causes by the Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses, as DU was used in 30 mm and 25 mm cannon rounds on a large scale for the first time in the Gulf War. Veterans of the conflicts in the Persian Gulf, Bosnia and Kosovo have been found to have up to 14 times the usual level of chromosome abnormalities in their genes. Serum-soluble genotoxic teratogens produce congenital disorders, and in white blood cells causes immune system damage.

      Human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU. A 2001 study of 15,000 February 1991 U.S. Gulf War combat veterans and 15,000 control veterans found that the Gulf War veterans were 1.8 (fathers) to 2.8 (mothers) times as likely to have children with birth defects. After examination of children's medical records two years later, the birth defect rate increased by more than 20%.

      I suggest that you acquire some DU, grind it into a fine power and sprinkle it around your house and put it in your food. Or you could mix it with something flammable and burn it like incense. It's no problem since according to you it's safer then milk. (Some people are allergic to milk.)

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    32. Re: See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There solution" - Here solution - EVERYWHERE solution!!!

    33. Re:See? by MobyDisk · · Score: 2

      The waste that comes out of the reactor is arguably safer than what went in. It is less radioactive than when it went in. And uranium is already toxic. I'd love to see a real scientific analysis of this. I have always been unclear why the waste is so frightening. Compared to the plastic and chemicals we dump into the oceans, there is a much smaller volume of radioactive waste. Nobody complains when that uranium goes out the smokestack of a coal plant into the air, but you make it 1/10th as radioactive and everybody calls it "nuclear waste" goes nuts about it.

    34. Re:See? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Full Burnup reactors are cool thing, but nuclear proliferation concerns coupled with their requirement for a higher % enriched fuel...

      Fast neutron reactors are not the only full burn reactor type. Thorium molten salt reactors eliminate most problems related to proliferation. Fuel is far cheaper, easier to produce and due to composition is far more difficult to use as a weapon. Or more like "impossible" because if I remember right bred plutonium isotop is an x-ray emitter.

    35. Re:See? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      It's not that much smaller, it's about half, half of extremely deadly is still extremely deadly.

      "Nobody complains when that uranium goes out the smokestack of a coal plant into the air, "

      Except they do, and they complain a lot about coal pollution. And if radioactivity was the only pollutant coming from a coal power station then no doubt people would still be complaining about it if they lived down wind.

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    36. Re:See? by vandamme · · Score: 1

      The problem is it can't be in ANYbody's back yard (e.g., Nevada) because TEH RADIATION OMG!

    37. Re:See? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      The people of Eurajoki would beg to disagree with you.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    38. Re:See? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Depleted uranium is radio-active for billions of years
      DU is only mildly radioactive

      ANYTHING which is mildly radioactive is so for billions of years. ANYTHING which is radioactive for billions of years is only mildly radioactive. The two properties are two side of the same coin. Or two parameters in an equation containing only constants otherwise.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    39. Re:See? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      We all know only good things come from the sea.

      [SELF : mixes up some nice toxic dinoflagellate "red algae" poison in your local ocean.]

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    40. Re:See? by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      >What is the point of waste storage being "decentralized"?

      It makes the logistics of transporting waste much easier, and is an easier sell to the public.

      Like this:
      "This waste is already here, stored on the surface where tornadoes and floods and terrorists can get to it. If we get a leak in this pool it will be an environmental disaster. We want to put it miles underground, miles deeper than the deepest water wells into rock that hasn't changed in a million years."

  2. Special seawater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They say Fukushima water is the best.

  3. This could pay for desalination by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Extracting any metals from seawater requires straining through large volumes of H2O. Because desalination has the same requirement, the two technologies will naturally go together. The uranium alone could pay for the whole process, with many other extractable metals as a bonus. Instead of conflict minerals, the world will have thirst minerals.

    1. Re:This could pay for desalination by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Is this like the "Little Lisa Recycling Plant"?

    2. Re:This could pay for desalination by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Except if you do that you kill basically everything in the water. Ions are basically the most important thing for life in the ocean.

    3. Re:This could pay for desalination by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      exactly right. We need to move to desalinating ocean water, esp for those within 50-150 miles of the coast.
      By separating things like U, Li, Au, Ni, etc from the sea waters, we can help pay for desalination.
      Even smarter yet, would be to build a number of SMALL nuclear power plants around the coastal region, and use these as well.
      Nuscale is perfect with some 60 MW / reactor. Put in 10 of these / site and you have 600 MW.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:This could pay for desalination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      26 Million dollars and 7 years to produce 50c worth of uranium. sign me up .

    5. Re:This could pay for desalination by rkordmaa · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't have same requirements, in desalination you dump the concentrated salt water because that's the only way you can get rid of all the useless crud that would otherwise clog your filters. If you really want a compatible technology for uranium extraction, then look for hydrochloric acid/sodium hydroxide production. There salt is actually broken down and removed from brine so whatever is stuck to filters or left over from electrolysis has higher concentration of uranium. But as long as you have actual uranium ore available it still makes more sense to mine that instead.

    6. Re:This could pay for desalination by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Except if you do that you kill basically everything in the water. Ions are basically the most important thing for life in the ocean.

      There is no threat that we will desalinate the entire ocean. All of the drinking water we produce that way not only ends up back in the ocean, but it picks up new minerals as it travels overland to get there.

    7. Re:This could pay for desalination by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about desalination, I'm talking about your idea of extracting useful amounts of metals or other minerals from those dissolved in the ocean water. Taking out a few kg of Iron would effectively kill several acres of ocean (and that's one of the more common ones.)

    8. Re:This could pay for desalination by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Actually, nuclear plants only convert about a third of the energy they generate into electricity (the generator is basically hooked up to a steam engine). The rest of the energy becomes waste heat which must be dissipated, usually by dumping it into a river or ocean. So the obvious thing to do would be to build nuclear reactors near the ocean, and use the waste thermal energy for desalination. (The same holds for fossil fuel plants - about 60% of the energy from coal and about 40% of the energy from natural gas becomes waste heat.)

    9. Re:This could pay for desalination by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Replace the desalinated water with Brawndo

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    10. Re:This could pay for desalination by careysub · · Score: 1

      Research on this (many decades of it) indicates that simple moored drift collection (letting ocean currents do all the work) is most cost effective, compared to dedicated circulation pumping (for uranium collection). But if you have desalinization plants anyway, this can be a bonus but not a huge one.

      If all the urban areas of California were supplied by nothing but desalinized water the plants would ingest about 20 billion tons of water a year from which 60 tons of uranium could be extracted - worth about $6 million at the ten-year market value average. The 10 billion tons of fresh water produced would cost at least $10 billion, so this is just rounding error.

      --
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    11. Re:This could pay for desalination by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      (the generator is basically hooked up to a steam engine).

      Pretty much the same as coal & gas, eh?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    12. Re:This could pay for desalination by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The amount of metals we would be taking out of the ocean is still minuscule in comparison not just to the total volume of water, but to amount that gets added every day in runoff from the land.

      Iron is so common on land that it is one of the metals we are least likely to want to extract from the sea. In fact, we will want to add more iron to promote algal growth as a way of sequestering carbon.

    13. Re:This could pay for desalination by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Yes, process heat from any source will help in making desalination more efficient.

    14. Re:This could pay for desalination by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      I seriously hope nobody with any actual sway takes your opinion seriously because I enjoy being able to eat sushi (and breathing, that one is nice too.)

    15. Re:This could pay for desalination by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I think you're assuming too high an efficiency for the Uranium extraction process.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    16. Re:This could pay for desalination by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Also pumping a lot of cooling water through the plant... double the advantage :)

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    17. Re:This could pay for desalination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how you keep talking like you know everything.

      HEY EVERYBODY! Pack up and go home, Akbar says everything will be fine. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Also he has all of the PHDs, and researches every subject every day.

      We'll be fine!

    18. Re:This could pay for desalination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok. And? We're talkin bout uranium. If you have an opinion on processing that coal or gas to get the uranium out of it then please pontificate. Otherwise you're off fucking topic and you can take your bullshit elsewhere. Don't you have some coal to "clean"?

    19. Re:This could pay for desalination by Labarna · · Score: 1

      Actually mining most iron deposits are just the same thing as pulling the stuff from the sea. They come from a time when oxygen was released into the atmosphere, the world rusted and the rust settled onto the bottom of the sea.

    20. Re:This could pay for desalination by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      Ever here of a place in Japan called Fukushima?

      What could possibly go wrong with a lovely seaside view?

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    21. Re:This could pay for desalination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "kill several acres of ocean"

      I'm thinking you're not aware that acres are measurements of area, not volume. So, I can't figure out how many liters are in an acre of ocean.

  4. Running the numbers by kenh · · Score: 1

    "[U]ranium in seawater shows up in concentrations of around 3.3 parts per billion," the report notes. "With a total volume estimated at more than 4 billion tons, there is around 500 times more uranium in seawater than in land-based sources."

    So if it's 3.3 parts per billion, that means there's 3.3 tons of uranium yellow uranium in a billion tons of water, and if there are 4 billion tons of seawater on planet, that means there are 13.2 tons of yellow cake uranium on the planet, give or take 1/500th (to account for the 1/500th of that amount in land-based sources).

    --
    Ken
    1. Re: Running the numbers by kenh · · Score: 1

      This 2003 article in slate says the world produces 64,000 tons of yellow cake uranium per year, the numbers in this article seem 'off'.

      http://www.slate.com/articles/...

      --
      Ken
    2. Re:Running the numbers by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Funny

      And if there is a lot more seawater, there is a lot more yellow cake.

    3. Re:Running the numbers by rgmoore · · Score: 2

      The 4 billion tons is the amount of uranium in the ocean, not the amount of water. The oceans have a volume of over a billion cubic kilometers, and one cubic kilometer is about a billion tons, so the total mass of the oceans is more than a billion billion tons.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

    4. Re: Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um no. The amount of water on earth is apx 1,450,000,000,000,000,000 tons. The 4 billion number is the amount of that water that is yellow cake uranium.

    5. Re:Running the numbers by TRRosen · · Score: 0

      4 Billion tons is the amount of yellowcake in the oceans dummy. There are 4 billion tons of water in a single cubic mile and over 300 million cubic miles of ocean.

    6. Re:Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One of my teachers' pet peeve was that people just plugged numbers into formulas without even considering plausibility. 4 billion tons of water is roughly 4 billion cubic meters of water (1 ton is 1000 kilogram is roughly 1000 liters is 1 cubic meter). That's 4 cubic kilometers (4*1000m*1000m*1000m). That's about the volume of Lake Zürich. For comparison: Lake Superior holds 3000 times as much water: 12000 cubic kilometers. The oceans actually have a volume of 1.3 billion cubic kilometers of water.

    7. Re: Running the numbers by kenh · · Score: 1

      I don't think the 'dummy' comment was needed, several other readers found a way to correct my mistake without resorting to an insult.

      I ran the numbers as I read them, then with a subsequent post said something looked wrong.

      --
      Ken
    8. Re: Running the numbers by kenh · · Score: 1

      I was questioning the numbers as I read them, because they didn't make sense, how did your teacher feel about students that question things that don't make sense to them?

      --
      Ken
    9. Re: Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not a dummy. Not sure why people need to resort to that.

    10. Re: Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      First of all, you misread. Then you questioned if there really is as much uranium in the oceans as claimed. You did not consider if 4 billion tons is a plausible number for the water in the oceans. Unsurprisingly, garbage in, garbage out means you got a meaningless result because you started your calculation with an entirely implausible number.

    11. Re: Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Claiming that there are 4 billion tons of seawater on the planet is quite dumb, especially from someone who demonstrated that he can run some numbers.

    12. Re:Running the numbers by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And if there is a lot more seawater, there is a lot more yellow cake.

      if there is more seawater, it will have come from ice melt. Glaciers seem high in radon, but in looking around it seems that they are lower in uranium than seawater. (Sorry, I couldn't find a good figure for glacial uranium content. Seawater is around 3 ppb.) So actually, it seems like if there is more seawater, there will not be a lot more yellow cake, just a bit more — and the rest will be harder to get out.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Running the numbers by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      No, there is already a lot (understatement) more seawater than the post I replied to stated.

    14. Re: Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kenh don't worry about assholes like this.

      You're a decent person who made an error, which you corrected yourself.

      This guy is an asshole. He will always be an asshole.

    15. Re:Running the numbers by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      Wow! 4 billion tons of sea water... looks like we're on Venus!

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    16. Re:Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there was only 4 billion cubic meters of seawater, it would take only 1000 tanker ships to carry all the seawater on the planet.

    17. Re: Running the numbers by GabeGhearing · · Score: 1

      Thatâ(TM)s 4 billion tons of yellowcake, I think there is 11 billion billion tons of water.

    18. Re:Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be 4 million tons per ship. What did I tell you about checking numbers for plausibility.

    19. Re: Running the numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no. That's what you conservatards want. No more of this namby pamby "political correctness" bullshit. What's that I hear congress cretins say? Call a spade a spade? Say it like it is?

      You are a dumbass plain and simple. Not only for the math error, but because you're kenh. Don't act like everyone here forgets who the fuck everyone else is when we log off. The only reason your post appears favorable is because you conservatards have a hardon for nukes. If it were about anything else you'd be screaming liberal conspiracy, george soros, fake science, and all the other vile bullshit you type.

      So again, open your goddamned mouth and swallow this dose of your own medicine. You want the gloves off, so man the fuck up and quite being a melted snowflake who wants a slashdot safe space. Do you also need a Comfort Gerbil to shove up your ass?

  5. should go fishing at Sellafield by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it will be around 30 x times more concentrated.

  6. Japan should have ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

    ... patented the method.

    Then SCOTUS would have us pay royalties.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:Japan should have ... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      For some reasons U concentration is much higher in the ocean around Japan.

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    2. Re:Japan should have ... by nojayuk · · Score: 1

      Not really. There are some local variations in uranium concentrations in seawater, off the estuaries of major rivers fed from granitic mountains for example. Japan doesn't have much in the way of granite.

      The Kuroshio ("Black Current") is a strong oceanic current that runs north-east along the southern shore of the Japanese Home Islands. The original Japanese uranium extraction experiments used this current to substitute for pumps and pipelines. They suspended the plastic fibre mats in static rafts and allowed the current to do the work for them.

      Assuming oceanic extraction of uranium is implemented at a large scale and replenishment from rivers isn't up to replacing the extracted uranium then as time goes on the process would become less efficient and the price would rise. It would take some time though, centuries or even millenia.

      One concentrated source of uranium in dissolved water is in the waste pits of coal-fired power stations. The Chinese have investigated the idea of processing this waste resource to extract uranium as they have few native sources of mineable uranium within their borders.

  7. Enlighten me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why on Earth would this be made public?!

    1. Re:Enlighten me... by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why on Earth would this be made public?!

      Because (a) it sounds consequential for non-proliferation but (b) it is not particularly so.

      Triuranium octooxide is the major component of yellowcake; the current market value of the uranium extracted in the experiment was about $0.25, which was extracted at a cost of $25 million. Of course uranium prices are volatile, so the market value of the uranium extracted in the experiment has, in recent years, been as high as a dollar. And a scaled up production plant would be more efficient too. Still, there's a long way to go before it's competitive with mining.

      Now granted use-value and market-value are two different things. If a country (a) had no uranium reserves and (b) had a coastline, it could, given a very, very long time gather enough yellowcake to, say, make a bomb, because you'd need thousands of tons of the stuff to feed into your enrichment process to obtain the required fissile isotopes. If you were a landlocked regime with nuclear ambitions and no uranium reserves, you'd have to compare the time and cost to this process to the effort of finding a dodgy merchant who will sell you yellowcake under the table.all arsenal. And most countries with no uranium can obtain it on the open market by starting a civilian nuclear power program.

      Proliferation should scare you, but his particular development has almost zero marginal effect. Uranium is fairly common in the Earth's crust, which is why you find it in seawater, and even countries with zero commercially viable uranium deposits, like Pakistan, can scrape together enough domestically mined uranium to build a small arsenal.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Enlighten me... by rkordmaa · · Score: 1

      Yellowcake on it's own is not really restricted, I wouldn't be surprised if you found some on sale on ebay and you can certainly go and pick some uranium ore off the ground and extract yellowcake from it yourself. There are videos on youtube showing how it's done exactly, plus how to make yellowcake into actual uranium metal. But all that is worthless without an actual way to enrich it, all you'll get out of it is some raw uranium and probably some toxic and somewhat radioactive waste products, nothing useful for doing any harm to anyone but yourself.

    3. Re:Enlighten me... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Because it's essentially useless.

      This may eventually count as an early result from which something useful can be developed, but the odds aren't really that good. (Also, it's not the first such result...though I found just using a piece of yarn as the lure to be interesting.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  8. Yards and yards by Deadstick · · Score: 1

    ...of yellowcake yarn.

  9. Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Switch away from Uranium and start using extremely abundant thorium instead. LFTRs could be installed at every LWR on the planet to chew through their "waste" stockpiles prior to their decomissioning, then just use said thorium for fuel.

    1. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't happen because the green parties are largely funded by big old companies through the back door. In an amazing display of Chutzpan the petrochemical industry have convinced the greens to hate the once source of energy that could possibly provide worlds needs without pollution.

      We live in a funny funny world.

    2. Re:Stupid by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Thorium reactors are still more theoretical than practical, though I think I've heard that India is working to change that.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:Stupid by nojayuk · · Score: 1

      The Indian plans to use thorium as a reactor fuel are based on mixed-fuel loads for PWRs and heavy-water reactors. The rest of the fuel mix is highly-enriched uranium (ca. 20% U-235) and LWR-derived plutonium, needed to provide the high neutron flux to breed thorium-232 up into U-233 which can be fissioned in-situ to produce energy and (eventually) electricity.

      Thorium has previously been used as an adjunct in pebble-bed reactors, the engineering of which was not up to the task (the German THTR-300 and AVR). Proposed thorium reactors of the liquid-salt types run at very high core temperatures and high neutron fluxes in a small volume. The engineering problems this creates (such as steel pipes losing half their strength at the elevated temps in the core) are the reason most conventional breeder reactors which suffer from the same requirements have generally not been a success.

      China is working on second-generation helium-cooled pebble-bed reactors which could use some thorium in the fuel pebbles but as far as I know the first pair of production reactors they've built (each producing 105MWe) aren't operational yet. They've had a smaller test pebble-bed reactor (10MWe) running for over a decade. I don't know if they've used thorium-mix pebbles in it though.

  10. And from the depths comes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a little cat's paw - bat-bat-bat!

    1. Re:And from the depths comes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chris, you don't use hyphens like that.

  11. Time To Take This Sea Out! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WMDs cannot exist in our peaceful planet. THIS! NEEDS! A! WAR!

  12. They were wrong! by gerald.edward.butler · · Score: 0

    We can have our Yellow Cake and Eat It Too!

  13. The Man Who Ploughed the Sea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Arthur C Clarke wrote a cool little story about this very idea in the 1950's. The idea being that you could extract any metal you like from the sea with a boat and some very specialized equipment. Since all water eventually goes to the seas, the erosion takes these metals and suspends them in solution in tiny quantities. You just need a large enough scale to make it economically viable. Wealth all for the taking.

    1. Re: The Man Who Ploughed the Sea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for noble metals. They're far too heavy to be suspended in saltwater. And, they don't bind with other element to form larger molecules. You can separate and suspend some noble metals with a aqua regia solution, but again, not likely to done in nature

    2. Re: The Man Who Ploughed the Sea by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      No, they exist in seawater but just in really dilute concentrations.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  14. Bush / Chenney / Rumsfeld were right all along. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we know where Iraq dumped all that yellow-cake. This probably could have prevented 9/11.

  15. Great Analogy by RNLockwood · · Score: 0

    Yellowcake is to a special form of powdered uranium as water is to a special form of powdered hydrogen.

    Awesome!

    --
    Nate
  16. The halt of evolution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could it be that this Uranium in the seawater (which is the origination of all life on the planet as we all know) could be the cause of the mutation that results in Evolution? If we extract the uranium out of the sea, we halt Evolution, therefore! Then again, we'll likely have blown away all the life there is to have evolved with the extracted uranium, so it would seem to be a zero-sum game. In the mean time, somebody's made a sh*tload of money, so "Filter away, guys!" which could be rephrased as "Run, Lemmings, run!"

    A bit more honorable than the carbon-credit scam, I suppose.

    1. Re:The halt of evolution? by rkordmaa · · Score: 1

      How to put it plainly - NO. There is more radioactivity in a banana than seawater.

    2. Re:The halt of evolution? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Potassium is more likely. It's often found in metabolism, and is actively concentrated by life. Then there's Carbon14, which is built right into the foundation, and when it decays to Nitrogen the configuration of the molecule is required to change.

      Of all the CHON components, Carbon is the one most susceptible to radioactive decay. Deuterium is stable, and Tritium has too short a half-life to persist in the environment (and is also rare for other reasons). But Carbon14 is made all the time in the atmosphere at a rate which replenishes the supply as it decays.

      N.B.: This kind of change is quite unlikely to have initiated life, but may have played a part in its evolution.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  17. There Has Been A Lot of Work Done On This by careysub · · Score: 2

    Research on extracting uranium from seawater using polymer matrix materials has been going for decades, with significant progress. The projected cost of extraction has fallen to as low as $350/kg, which is actually less than the peak spot market price of uranium hit in 2007, but higher than the 10 year average of about $100/kg.

    This paper does a nice survey of this work up to about 2014, and does not include this most recent project. You can use SciHub to get the whole article but the abstract I link to provides a good summary of its key points which are:

    • Adsorption capacity was the largest driver of cost.
    • A higher capacity did not necessarily mean a lower cost.
    • Many substrates were employed: polyethylene was the most widely and recently used.
    • Passive mooring systems were more economical than pumping seawater systems

    The abstract gives a price range of $400-$1000/kg but if you read the paper the lower bound is really about $350, and obviously only the most cost-effective systems are going to be candidates for eventual commercial use. This latest work cited in TFA uses (potentially recycled) acrylic, and the focus seems to be on finding a better cost/performance ratio, whereas most of the research has focused primarily on performance. I would like to see this work put into context with all the other work that has been done, to see exactly what the advancements/benefits are.

    But that won't be for a long time. We have proven uranium reserves on land good for over 100 years at current rates of use before the price will rise to $350/kg. The world produced $75 billion of electricity from nuclear power last years (at $30/MWh wholesale price) and the cost of the uranium to fuel it was $6.8 billion (using the ten year average price). At $350/kg the cost would be $24 billion, a significant increase in total electricity cost, but in the context of the trillions of dollars of economic output that runs on that electricity, one that could easily be absorbed. But the uranium in seawater is a 13,000 year supply, so it will not run out on any relevant timescale.

    And if and when we need to use seawater uranium, one can expect that that $350/kg figure can be driven lower, with an additional century of research and a sustained focus on commercialization.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  18. What? by TimMD909 · · Score: 2

    First I couldn't get pudding if I didn't eat my meat. Now I need to get yarn to get cake? Where will this end?

    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Probably on the dark side of the moon.

  19. IP theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When America uses foreign innovation and invention, it's called "to build upon", but when it's the other way around they make accusations of "IP theft", with the motivation that we've agreed amongs ourselves that we have patented everything that is patentable, and so you are stealing from us. Hypocrites.

  20. Nuclear aspirations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So producing yarn and buying lots of it will be seen as nuclear aspiration, make the country flagged as MDW bearer and susceptible target for a donation of democracy.

  21. Please relate these numbers to India's water by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

    Just wondering if there is an expert here who can translate these levels.

    It was recently reported that India's water supply in the Punjab region has concentrations of Uranium as high as 579 ug/l, well above permissible WHO limits of 30 ug/l. Measurements as high as 1440 ug/l have occurred elsewhere in India. As one point of reference, New York's water was reported to have a high of 0.1ug/l though the US as a whole was stated to have an average of 1.17 ug/l which means there are some places higher. Finland had the highest number with 6000 ug/l as their max.

    But, given that a liter of seawater is about 1025 grams, seawater at 3.3 parts per billion uranium/seawater would seem to translate to 3.22 ug per liter of freshwater.

    This would seem to indicate that many regions of the world have far higher concentrations of uranium in their groundwater than what is present in seawater.

    The statement that their is 500 times more Uranium in seawater than on land could still be true because groundwater is a small portion of land and there is so much more seawater than groundwater. But it would seem that the best application of the technology due to higher concentrations available would be in cleaning the Uranium out of some of our groundwater supplies. That would help the people in those areas while providing a large portion of the Uranium to meet the world's needs. A region using a billion gallons of water a day (I don't think this is an unusual number for 10 million people or so,,, NYC is higher) is using over 8 billion pounds of water. If its uranium concentration is high enough that filters made of this material could extract a few hundred pounds per billion, you could reach tons per day.

    Replacing the entire world demand of around 70,000 tons per year does not appear achievable without processing the much lower concentrations in seawater, but I guestimate by looking at tables of groundwater concentrations around the world that half of the world supply could be achievable and it could help pay for providing fresh water.

    My question is whether I am translating ppm to ug/l correctly. If ppb is ppb of weight, I think it is correct. But if it is ppb of atoms, then it is way off because a Uranium atom weighs so much more than the average atom in seawater. Does anyone know?

  22. There is no organic uranium. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Uranium is, if found in seawater in the open ocean, free-range and hormone-free. If extracted without the trolling nets they use for tuna, I think it is even able to be certified dolphin-safe.

  23. Sure, but how do you get the uranium out of the ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or are they planning to knit glowing socks and sweaters? Actually could be handy... OH! Glowing mittens! YES! Those would be nice. Keep your hands warm for years and years. :-)

  24. George W Bush announces ocean is imminent threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We must invade the ocean before they use their WMD on us.

  25. Sounds like a government program by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    5 grams of yellowcake, 25 million in taxpayer funded money.

  26. If uranium is hard to come by . . . by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Why is the USA giving 20% of it's uranium to Russia?

  27. 7 years for 5 grams? by martinfb · · Score: 1

    If it takes 7 years to collect 5 grams, then the scale-up would be enormous.

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  28. Low Grade Ore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nearly any element can be found in any rock sample, if you have sensitive enough tests (assays). The thing that unifies all such situations is that they are uneconomic to process.

    Who cares what the total Uranium supply in all the oceans is? That's like saying "there are 100 gigatons of Gold just waiting to be found on Earth!" You know, except for the hard parts of finding the Gold, building mines, running the mines, and making a profit, it's falling-out-of-bed level easy!

    3.3 ppb Uranium in seawater qualifies seawater as an extremely low grade ore. You'd have to process an incredible amount of seawater to get a single gram of Uranium. And no one is interested in single grams of Uranium. It's tempting to think that, being water, a simplified extraction process makes it all better. Yeah, except for the corrosive effects of seawater on metals, the fouling by sea life, the mineral deposits, the costs of pumping billions of tons of water, degradation of the filter materials, and all the rest.

    We still have trouble building commercially viable desalination plants. That's a much easier business case to make, and the engineering is simpler by far (primary input is water, primary output is water).

    This also smacks of using particle accelerators to make gold. Sure, it finally made real the Philosopher's Stone (sort of), and the dreams of the alchemists (in a manner of speaking). However it is such a hugely impractical, costly, and tedious way of making gold, that no one does it this way except to prove the point. It costs far less to send geologists out into the field to find an ore body.