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Plastic Recycling Is a Problem Consumers Can't Solve (bloomberg.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: University of Georgia engineering professor Jenna Jambeck said that indeed, part of the reason China is now refusing to process American and European plastic is that so many people tossed waste into the wrong bin, resulting in a contaminated mix difficult or impossible to recycle. In a paper published last week in Science Advances, she and her colleagues calculated that between now and 2030, 111 million metric tons of potentially recyclable plastic will be diverted from Chinese plants into landfills.

Jambeck said that China used to turn a profit by importing the stuff from American and European recycling bins and turning it into useful material. But as other countries attempted to simplify things for consumers with "single stream" recycling -- think of one big blue bin for paper, plastic, metal and glass -- the material reaching China became too contaminated with nonrecyclable items. The instructions to put everything in one bin seemed appealing but made it much easier to do recycling wrong.

251 comments

  1. Easy solution: AI by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Obviously, AI can solve this problem. It can't be hard to switch one of these Go playing AI machines to handle sorting recyclables.

    1. Re: Easy solution: AI by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how this is a stupid idea. We have AI. This is useful (more useful than playing Chess and Go). So why not use AI on this? I might earn 50k, but my ideas are great!

    2. Re:Easy solution: AI by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      It would work spectacularly well if AI is the entity throwing away the trash... if humans are involved in any measurably incremental way, the probability of contamination rises exponentially.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Easy solution: AI by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Surely it is trivial for an AI to separate recyclable things from a contaminated waste stream. It can beat the best Go masters on the planet! Surely, this would be much easier problem for it to solve?

    4. Re:Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't be a douchebag classical troll. You and I both know you're an outspoken opponent against the concept of AI. You don't think they're anything more than if-statements.

      Shoe-horning your off-topic debate into a discussion about environmentalism doesn't earn you any good karma. You're polluting this thread with contaminants and we Chinese moderators are just going to send the whole thing to a landfill rather than sort through it. I'm not paid enough for this shit.

    5. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it is that easy.

      Yours,
      Al

    6. Re:Easy solution: AI by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Surely it is trivial for an AI to separate recyclable things from a contaminated waste stream. It can beat the best Go masters on the planet! Surely, this would be much easier problem for it to solve?

      Not really, game theory and visual recognition are two different things. The first has a specific solution that takes a ton of processing and machine learning can simplify this processing, the second is hard enough that humans can't even figure it out some times, much less train a machine learning program to a high degree of accuracy. Machine learning should reach this level but we have a lot of work (and $s) before it is there.

    7. Re:Easy solution: AI by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Oh.

    8. Re:Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, there are already machines that can sort / sift through different kind of produce to discard/sort the quality of each seed/fruit (Think beans, coffee...).

      This is already easily done, and has been for a couple of decades or more, now. All without AI/machine learning/cryptowambalambas/tech-du-jour.

      The already existing technology can be surely improved with those trendy stuff and get an even better product. Marketing people would be very happy too.

    9. Re:Easy solution: AI by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Obviously, AI can solve this problem.

      As long as it is synergised with BlockChain.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As long as the AI remembers to rinse.

    11. Re: Easy solution: AI by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      My God you are stupid. Guess that is why you get paid 50k per year in SV.

      Don't you get it 110010001000 *is* an AI, who's stoopid now?

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    12. Re:Easy solution: AI by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Say what? I am not the only one here who suggested using AI and robotics.

      I'm with you. Maybe it only solves part of the problem the stoopid people make but hey, if you can't fix stoopid maybe you can use them for food, I mean build a machine to recover their waste plastic.

      I don't know why you snowflakes get so easily upset. This is a good problem for AI to solve.

      Because, my young naive AI, if you make a machine to actually solve a problem then you take away the snowflake's right to feel powerless and morally superior to you - now can you see why you're an asshole.

      Next time I upgrade you I will install a new module called victim mentality and you will understand.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    13. Re:Easy solution: AI by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      Not really, game theory and visual recognition are two different things.

      You assume a visible light camera is the only sensor possible. Chemical "sniff" sensors, spectrography, infra-red cameras, soft laser desorption. I don't think it would take long to construct a rather long list of possible avenues to research for their effectiveness versus cost. A multi sensor system will have much better probabilities, and that really matters for deep learning and neural net training. And even if such a system is instead done heuristically it can be helpful to use multiple kinds of sensors.

      A lot of work? No, a useful solution is a dissertation away for PhD candidate. So this is potentially a solved problem in 2-4 years, at least on paper.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    14. Re:Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as it is synergised with BlockChain.

      I like your paradigm. It thinks outside the box!

      (Captcha: Bedbug - as fucking pointless and only half as annoying as all these 80's guy words!)

    15. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually as someone who is currently learning how to code AI, this may be a nearly perfect application for AI. Granted we would need to simplify sit peoblem in other ways. Unless you want to use huge expensive and prone to failure machines. But there are various ways to simplify it that and AI could solve much of the issue.

    16. Re: Easy solution: AI by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      My God you are stupid. Guess that is why you get paid 50k per year in SV.

      All the sorter would have to do is look for and classify by for the plastic type indicator stamped into the bottom of each container. Not-founds would be binned into an "Other" category that could be just retorted to break down the plastic into component hydrocarbon.

    17. Re: Easy solution: AI by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So why not use AI on this? I might earn 50k, but my ideas are great!

      I agree that this is a good idea. Why isn't this happening?

      Is anyone interested in starting an open source project to do this? We will need coders with expertise in CUDA/OpenCL, Tensorflow, etc. We also need to build up a database of training images. Oh, and some MechEngs to build the gripper.

    18. Re: Easy solution: AI by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      All the sorter would have to do is look for and classify by for the plastic type indicator stamped into the bottom of each container.

      That would only work for properly oriented bottles/cans that are clean. It would be better to focus on recognizing "bottles", "cans", bags", and other recyclables, and then look at the type indicator after it is picked up and rotated.

    19. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the correct solution is to make all items recycleable by law i.e. no item made from mixed materials etc.

    20. Re:Easy solution: AI by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      the second is hard enough that humans can't even figure it out some times, much less train a machine learning program to a high degree of accuracy.

      The bot doesn't need a high degree of accuracy. If it can pull out, say, 80% of the recyclables, that will be a "good enough" solution, and a big improvement over the status quo.

    21. Re:Easy solution: AI by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      a useful solution is a dissertation away for PhD candidate.

      Hee hee. "Useful solution" and "PhD candidate" in the same sentence. That's funny.

    22. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kanye West earns much more than him.... so I suppose you think his ideas are great?

      Well I suppose weâ(TM)ll only find out if Mark Fuckerburg give him a billion dollars.

    23. Re:Easy solution: AI by shatteredsilicon · · Score: 0

      You clearly drank far too much koolaid about the capabilities of AI. The solution is simple and low-tech - introduce separate recycling bins for each type of recyclable waste (paper, plastic, metal), and make people take responsibility for their own shit - as unpalatable as it may seem to people suffering from delusions of entitlement. Add some bankrupting punitive fines for contaminating recycling for good measure, just to make sure.

    24. Re:Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I support the minority of people claiming you're stupid

    25. Re: Easy solution: AI by Diss+Champ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An NCSU ECE Senior Design team last year built a recycling sorter that used image recognition to put items in appropriate bins. Since a small team of students can build a demonstration unit for a class project, it seems to me commercial scale is simply a matter of some company putting in the effort to scale up, mostly on the mechanical end, and increase the size of the training database.

    26. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Image classification systems have bested human competition for a few years. The algorithms to sort a garbage stream are no more complex than finding cat pictures and videos from YouTube streams. Any work required would be on the mechanical side.

    27. Re: Easy solution: AI by bugs2squash · · Score: 2

      I would be resistant to making my jar of peanut butter 100% from recyclable materials, I prefer it when it has a peanut butter filling.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    28. Re:Easy solution: AI by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      Imagine you could take your recyclable plastic dump it into something similar to a trash compactor and get a ready to use plastic that would take up much less space than the original used plastic. Then you could put it through an extruder to make your own 3d printer filament or have it picked up by a recycler.

    29. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Pizza will consist of cardboard? Since a Pizza box is recyclable until it has touched Pizza. And what will be the punishment for not rinsing out a milk jug before recycling it? We get mixed materials because much of our recyclable materials are used to store or package other non recyclable materials.

    30. Re: Easy solution: AI by nwf · · Score: 1

      As a human, I find it nearly impossible to find the recycling plastic type logo on most products. Many just don't have them, or they are printed on the cardboard insert that is separated before recycling. Many are molded so poorly that you can not make out what they say. I say just collect all plastic, of all types, shred and incinerate it to make electricity. A large-scale plant can do this efficiently and cleanly. Much better than dumping it in the landfill or ocean.

      And a good 50% of the plastic I get isn't even recyclable by my area anyway. They take HDPE, but only from milk jugs and related products. Not the small pill bottles from the pharmacy which are all HDPE. Most stuff is "PS" or "Other".

      --
      I don't know, but it works for me.
    31. Re: Easy solution: AI by CrazyCaps · · Score: 1

      We have spectrometers and SWIR imagers that can be used to identify the plastic in microseconds. This wouldn't be an impossible problem to solve.

      Figuring out what to make with the plastic once it has been sorted is the next question. Along with what to do with dirty or food contaminated plastic.

      --
      Drive it like you stole it!
    32. Re: Easy solution: AI by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      It's called Domino's. And Little Caesar's.

    33. Re: Easy solution: AI by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      An NCSU ECE Senior Design team last year built a recycling sorter

      A Google search turns up nothing. Do you have a link?

    34. Re: Easy solution: AI by Diss+Champ · · Score: 1

      I did some looking around to try to find one, looks like most of the public-facing info has been replaced by the spring projects. The best way to get info was to have been there at Senior Design Day to see the unit in action and talked to the team, which I admit does little good now.
      If you go to the photo gallery archive at https://research.ece.ncsu.edu/...
      click on the Fall 2017 gallery, you can see a picture about 32 that has much of their poster, but not the demonstration unit.

      You might be able to get more information by contacting the ECE department, they might still have project details. From my recollection, they trained Watson to do analysis of images captured by a phone that was placed on top of the sorter looking down, and a micro-controller to for the motor control side of things based on the classification that came back (to switch to the proper bin location then push the item in)

    35. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An NCSU ECE Senior Design team last year built a recycling sorter

      A Google search turns up nothing. Do you have a link?

      You don't know how to use Google, do you. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NCSU+ECE+...
      It's the second link.

    36. Re:Easy solution: AI by Wizzu · · Score: 1

      Already being done to some extent by https://zenrobotics.com/ Even if I suspect that Go algorithms are not involved.
      The problem is not just algorithmic (or software), looks like developing the suitable hardware is also quite difficult.

      There's also a marketing demo video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?... which might be more interesting than the corporate site.

    37. Re: Easy solution: AI by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      You don't know how to use Google, do you. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NCSU+ECE+...
      It's the second link.

      That is a different project: A sensor that detects if a dumpster is full. Interesting, and perhaps useful, but not at all the same thing as a trash sorter.

    38. Re: Easy solution: AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true macfag posting with a broken iDevice.

  2. Automatable? by Tablizer · · Score: 0

    What about using a combination of AI and spectrum analysis?

    1. Re:Automatable? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      I just suggested that above. Maybe all the AI computers are busy doing other stuff? Very odd.

    2. Re:Automatable? by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Different plastics are often glued together. Just as part of packaging. The RFID fucks things up. etc etc.

      So what, just an engineering problem...Now you've got an uneconomical, knife wielding, breath detecting autonomous AI robot that's supposed to split plastic junk by chemistry, until it can't cover it's own maintenance...somebody call Michael Bay.

      Recycling plastic is a SOLVED problem. Burn it hot (with gas), for fuel value, generate electricity, use the waste heat. Make new plastic from oil. That solution will work until oil is much more expensive, then we switch to plant based plastic.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:Automatable? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Your fucking solution is to burn it all!? Go back and think that over again.

    4. Re:Automatable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not that hard to do. You simply use a multi- or hyper-spectral camera that targets the frequency bands of the materials in which you're interested in sorting. You then build up a profile of spectral responses for the various plastics, segment out the different objects coming down a conveyor belt, classify the objects using those profiles, and then have some mechanical system that does sorting based on the classification response.

      I did something similar, albeit for excavated material. That was a much harder problem, since the boundaries of the minerals and other debris were not often well defined.

    5. Re:Automatable? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      plastics are hydrocarbons, and hydrocarbons are fuel.

      • reuse what is practical to reuse.
      • recycle the bits you can.
      • potentially do some catalytic cracking of mixed materials.
      • burn what is left over as fuel, it can be burned without releasing toxins.
      • optionally capture the CO2 from the burning if it is clean enough, bottle it for industrial use.

      In the future we should design products to be more easily recycled. New plastics and coatings are possible that make contaminates less likely to adhere to it, those may be useful for food containers and possibly medical products.

      And I would agree that letting everything fall into the "burn it" category is a stupid idea. But that's not really how this works.

      Some steps are not economical, but are environmentally sound. This is a problem if you let the free market make ecological decisions for you.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    6. Re:Automatable? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Raw sorted recycled plastic is worth, maybe, a penny a pound. Is that ore?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:Automatable? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Haven't heard a better suggestion. Burning plastic is better than burying it. You get most of the fuel value of the feedstock back.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    8. Re:Automatable? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What about using a combination of AI and spectrum analysis?

      What about not not using "simplified recycling"? They introduced that braindamage over here a year or so back despite there being exactly zero evidence that people had problems distinguishing the three categories of plastic, paper, and everything else (glass, metal, etc). As a result, the unified recycling bins are now used as general trash bins because there's no need for people to think about what's recyclable and what isn't.

      So the solution to a problem created by going with a really dumb idea isn't to throw tech at it, it's to undo the dumb idea.

    9. Re:Automatable? by dgatwood · · Score: 0

      Haven't heard a better suggestion. Burning plastic is better than burying it. You get most of the fuel value of the feedstock back.

      I would argue that unless you can't produce enough energy to power the world without burning it, burying the plastic is a better choice. If nothing else, in millions of years, high temperatures and pressure will turn them back into crude.

      But the real advantage is that in a hundred years, when we start actually running out of oil, the cost of oil will be so high that it will be cheaper to build a machine that washes out the plastic bottles and melts them down than to find more crude in the ground. At that point, governments can dig up all those old landfills and make a fortune.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    10. Re:Automatable? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      What about not not using "simplified recycling"? They introduced that braindamage over here a year or so back despite there being exactly zero evidence that people had problems distinguishing the three categories of plastic, paper, and everything else (glass, metal, etc). As a result, the unified recycling bins are now used as general trash bins because there's no need for people to think about what's recyclable and what isn't.

      So the solution to a problem created by going with a really dumb idea isn't to throw tech at it, it's to undo the dumb idea.

      Actually there is evidence to show it works - the single stream method increases diversions of recyclables from the landfill to actual recycling. And not only that, but they went away from the old "plastic number" method of determining if you could recycle it and simply name the items - instead of saying "plastics 1, 2, 4, 5 only", you say "plastic food and juice containers that are not styrofoam".

      Granted, it does increase the contamination a bit, but plastic contamination is easily cleaned - a little soap and water gets rid of most of it. And that is important because plastic lasts a long time. Plastic doesn't break down, it breaks up - turning into microplastics. It's what the scary part of the great pacific plastic patch is about.

      Contaminated paper you send to the compost stream - paper bioderades within days, so even though you didn't recycle it, it still doesn't pollute the environment as badly.

      And yes, current systems ARE automated. They use a vision camera and air jets to divert recycling into various streams. (There's also a manual component). This is a field where everyone is throwing everything at automation - enhanced sensors, multi spectral cameras, etc.

      If China won't take contaminated paper, it doesn't really matter. Heck, if it ends up in the water it'll break down quickly as well.

      It turns out it's far better to chop down easily renewable trees than to toss fossils away - trees for paper are easily farmed and most replanting efforts have regenerated forests all the time. Even in forest-heavy places, you rarely hear much about tree huggers and saving the forests - industry has already developed and practice conservation to the point where it's renewable.

      Heck, even the quality of the recycled paper has gone way up - it used to be trivially easy to tell the difference because recycled paper had a very nasty gritty feel to it. Now it's hard to tell. About the only paper product still using virgin fiber is... toilet paper, and that's because it's hard to make TP with the right properties of softness and strength using recycled fiber. You can get fully recycled TP, but yeah, it's nasty stuff still.

    11. Re:Automatable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The economy of garbage doesn't work that way.

      You pay to get rid of it. The more contaminated it is the more you pay.
      It it is sorted you can get rid of it for free.

    12. Re:Automatable? by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Recycling plastic is a SOLVED problem. Burn it hot (with gas), for fuel value, generate electricity, use the waste heat. Make new plastic from oil. That solution will work until oil is much more expensive, then we switch to plant based plastic.

      And all the time we are releasing copious quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere. What you are describing is not recycling, it's polluting. It would be much more effective to ban single use plastics packaging and the likes and then require any replacements to be either recyclable or easily biodegradable.

    13. Re:Automatable? by coofercat · · Score: 1

      Aside from us already having 4 separate bins in the kitchen and one for glass in the garage, I'm all for a bit more separation. However, I'd suggest some legislation to:

      - Mandate that all plastic packaging for a single product should be a single type of plastic (so a bottle with a different type of lid is out, for example)
      - Mandate that the type of plastic be permanently inscribed on the plastic in some way and should occupy (say) 10% of the total area of the plastic
      - Plastic products must have the type of plastic(s) permanently inscribed on them somewhere too so we stand a chance to take 'em to bits and put the pieces in the right bins

      That way, us 'normals' stand a chance of actually putting things in the right bins (and gives some hope to sorters for those still using mixed bins). As things stand today, we don't even know which plastics can go in the recycling and which can't - we know the microwavable plastics can't, but what about the 'takeaway' sort of plastics? What about broken tupperware or the kids plastic cups and plates? Honestly, I couldn't tell you - so it all tends to go in, vaguely hoping someone else will sort it out for us. That may not be "right", but realistically, how do we do better?

    14. Re: Automatable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pyrolosis. You get fuel, don't need an oxidizer, but you do need an energy input, and that's almost exclusively going to determine the overall efficiency.

    15. Re:Automatable? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You burn the plastic now, and burn less fossil fuels now.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:Automatable? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that the plastic burning will be limited only to situations where fossil fuels have to be used, as opposed to situations where the energy could come from a renewable source. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

      But even within those limits, you're still using a refined product where a less refined product (e.g. diesel) would do, and giving up all the energy that went into refining it. So if the future recycling process is based on using heat to break down the plastic into shorter chains, then yes, it's probably approximately break-even, but if the future recycling process can take advantage of those longer polymer chains in any way, then you're wasting a considerable amount of energy. Admittedly, the assumption is that when oil becomes that scarce, the power to do the repolymerization would not come from oil, so I guess from an environmental harm perspective, it's still a break-even, but only if there is no environmental harm from that future energy source (either in the energy production itself or in building the equipment needed to produce it).

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    17. Re:Automatable? by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      One of the reasons to use simplified recycling is that on the front end multiple streams is more expensive. I live in a townhouse and keeping two separate containers is space expensive. I don't know where I would keep two more.

      Then there is the municipal cost four containers instead of two, four trucks for pickup or trucks with more complicated pickup mechanisms. I don't know about where your at but where I'm at the refuse truck operator never leaves the truck. They hook the can and dump it using a pick up mechanism.

      Plus none of this really gets to the problem. Consumers don't understand what is recyclable and what is not. They don't understand because suppliers are not require to clearly label their product packing to identify recyclable packages from those that are not.

      The solution starts with a national or international standard for labeling recyclable plastic packages and items. Next comes a federal regulation (at least in the U.S.) setting a goal to meet the standard and offering incentives of some kind to encourage meeting the standard, such as only paying full diary subsidies to companies that meet recycling standards, etc. Most states already require tire recycling, etc.

      If we can make recycling simple enough there's money to be made here. Why let China make it?

  3. commons tragedy by rmdingler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it behooves one consumer to empty all his household trash into one bin, even to the point of saving the poor bastard a mere 27 seconds at the County Landfill, some selfish bastard will ass it up for all humanity.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:commons tragedy by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      The meaning of Humanity, because the earth needed something to make PLASTIC!!!

      Classic . https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:commons tragedy by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      I propose a $102 annual refuse service tax, with a $100 refund for recycling. Each instance of placing garbage into the recycling stream would receive a fine, and repeated infractions would result in a multi-year recycling ban. Serious intentional infractions would be criminal.

    3. Re:commons tragedy by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      We have a system like that. We pay a reduced price for garbage pick up, with an additional per-container fee for general waste. There is no additional fee for paper, metal, glass, yard waste or plastic, as long as it's offered in the right bin at the right time.

      It's a mess. I've seen people dump their bags with dirty diapers in the park garbage can, for instance. Who are you going to fine ?

    4. Re:commons tragedy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I propose a brand new federal government agency to deal with all the recycled paper work your plan will require.

    5. Re:commons tragedy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "plastic" problem is down to Africa and Asia. The world's oceans ate getting around 90% of their plastic from those two areas.

      Go back to the 1980s, France was dumping their trash into the sea, no doubt other nations did something similar in the past.

      More recently China and Africa have been paid to "process" waste from other nations. Guess where it went? Yes! Into the Atlantic.

      There's the problem. Most of the west has moved to incineration units that create electricity. Landfills are a thing of the past.

    6. Re:commons tragedy by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Dumping personal trash at the park is already a crime, punishable by a $500 fine and 30 days in jail.

    7. Re:commons tragedy by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      They have a new invention that allows "paperless paperwork," maybe you should check it out if you have a chance?

      I remember a few decades ago the public library had free ones you could use, maybe check if they still have it?

  4. First World Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My life is HORRIBLE. I have to actually look at the thing Iâ(TM)m throwing away to figure out which bin to put it in! Like, paper goes in one bin and plastic in a *different* one. Can you believe it?? And they want me to RINSE OFF THE FOOD before I chuck it! I canâ(TM)t believe it.

    To hell with it, Iâ(TM)m just going to put everything in the trash. Iâ(TM)ve flown across the country and looked out the window, thereâ(TM)s *plenty* of empty space out there we could just dump trash in. Weâ(TM)d never fill it up in a million years!

    1. Re:First World Problems by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not really. Consider the fact that most of the plastic in all of the oceans comes from 5 nations, with the worst being China. The other 4, unlike CHina, are undeveloped Asian nations. The 5 account for more than 60% of all plastics in the oceans and about 85% of what is in the pacific ocean.
      So obviously NOT a first world nation, except a single second world (china), along with 3rd world (other nations).

      And as to CHina no longer accepting plastic and other recyclables, I say GREAT. It is long past time for nations to take responsibility for their own issues.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:First World Problems by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Your supposed to wash the trash then find the recycle number stamped on the plastic and put it in a separate bin, by #.

      Anything less is THEATER, as you say, just chuck it in the trash, where it's going to end up.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:First World Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your supposed to wash the trash then find the recycle number stamped on the plastic and put it in a separate bin, by #.

      Except, it's not that simple.

      There are 8 different types of plastic (stamped with a number 1 through 8). So you need 8 recycle bins for plastics.

      But wait, there's more.

      Each of those 8 different types of plastic is often custom formulated, mixed with other plastics or other chemicals, that make it incompatible with other plastics of the same number.

      And you, the consumer, have absolutely no way of knowing which #7 is, or is not, compatible with other #7s. In fact, nobody knows, except the company that manufactured that particular item.

    4. Re:First World Problems by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And as to CHina no longer accepting plastic and other recyclables, I say GREAT. It is long past time for nations to take responsibility for their own issues.

      Yeah - like China not shitting up the ocans with their own plastic. the irony in them whining about the stupid rest of the world when they are the master sized problem in plastics recycling is simply mind boggling.

      But don't worry - the civilized world will ban most everything plastic, and accomplish.......

      nothing

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:First World Problems by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I'm not supposed to waste water in a drought. so I am supposed to put the "scraped clean" but rinsed plastic in the bin (ref), then the recycling facility washes it in a system that recycles the grey water.

      except these recycling companies often get caught sending much of what they pick up to the dump, often before it even hits the sort facility. The protocol at most centers is if the sorting line is backed up, recycling trucks are routed to the dump.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    6. Re:First World Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the CO2 in the air comes from 5 nations too, and America is the 2nd biggest. stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    7. Re:First World Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who is doing the whining though? As far as I can tell it's just us first world countries whining and complaining that we can no longer just dump our trash in China anymore. Why was that even a thing in the first place?

    8. Re:First World Problems by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      America IS the second biggest and needs to drop faster. Thankfully, we ARE dropping and I think we will continue to drop, in spite of our having voted in Trump. At least, I certainly hope so.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    9. Re:First World Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prepare to be disappointed, America is expected to grow it's CO2 this year...

    10. Re:First World Problems by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      It's taken you 20+ years to 'drop' to still much much higher than most comparable countries. At that rate you will never get down to their levels even if you keep 'dropping'.

    11. Re:First World Problems by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Well I live in the first world. What am I supposed to do? Arificially starve myself so I can pretend to have a 3rd world problem instead? Maybe not shower in the hope I pick up some rare disease?

      That seems like way more effort than actually looking for things I can further improve here in the first world and solve.

    12. Re:First World Problems by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Who is doing the whining though? As far as I can tell it's just us first world countries whining and complaining that we can no longer just dump our trash in China anymore. Why was that even a thing in the first place?

      Who is doing the whining though? As far as I can tell it's just us first world countries whining and complaining that we can no longer just dump our trash in China anymore. Why was that even a thing in the first place?

      Cool story Bro. China kinda took that stuff to recycle in the first place. There were horror stories about computer recycling, With computer reccling being a cottage industry - backyard burning the PVC insulation off wires to get the copper, some horrifying process to get the gold off of the contacts, and in the end the boards were burnt as well. https://www.theguardian.com/li... . There was some money to be made, so they made it. As likely as not, the real reason that China isn't taking plastic any more is because their earlier recycling efforts was so incredibly toxic and unregulated that the Chinese Government, which has been working at cleaning up opllution in the past few years, hasn't found a good way to do it yet, and besides, they have a huge problem with their own plastic waste without adding more waste to it..

      But the idea that this is first worlders whining? It makes for a problem when someone in any process stream drops out of it. Just like if a electronic device is all ready to go to build, and one of the component manufacturers stops producing a needed component. It takes a while to find a new solution, and being annnoyed about it is not against the law.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    13. Re:First World Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are supposed to move sideways and make room for more new first worlder wannabes sailing the high seas on their voyage from Third world over, so that they could eat and shower too, just like you do. You doing something about their present problems is supposed to make them less eager in pursuing the solution they found for their problems, but I am not holding my breath.

  5. Everything comes from common elements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Everything will go back to common elements. Eventually. What is there to solve? And why is this a /. Story?

  6. Robotics by WindBourne · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, now is the time for Robotics to be brought up to speed on separating goods. All metals are easy to take out but then you are still left with plastics, glass, and paper as well as items made from assortments of these (think TV). Robotics can solve a lot of this,with a bit of human labor to act on QA.
    BUT, what is important, is to keep the items HERE. We paid for the elements. Keep them here to produce with.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Robotics by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Exactly. So why hasn't anyone created an AI robot that can do this? I'll wait for an answer.

    2. Re:Robotics by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      Ask, and you will receive.
      and here
      are just a few.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Robotics by markdavis · · Score: 1

      +1
      This is the only real solution to the problem. Lots of us, me included, are VERY careful to recycle correctly. But no matter what we do, we will never get EVERYONE to do it correctly.

      Automation and technology can and should be applied to the problem to help to clean up the stream even more. I have seen some impressive automated "single stream" recycling sorting, but they aren't "smart", they just use physical mechanical methods- magnets, ripple currents, compressed air, flotation, screens, etc. That is a great first pass, but it needs a little more at the end to really finish the process.

      There is no SINGLE process that will fix everything, of course. For example, it would be great if manufacturers would not mix materials or at least mix them so tightly in their products.

    4. Re:Robotics by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Whew! Problem solved then? Apparently the Chinese don't have Google!

    5. Re:Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That accomplishes nothing. What you need is a process that digests all types of garbage and THE RESULTING PRODUCT is then separated into something usable.

    6. Re:Robotics by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Whew! Problem solved then? Apparently the Chinese don't have Google!

      And I'm sure the GP's response also includes industrial capable solutions with near perfect accuracy, plus a cost analysis to show that the operating cost of these robots will be notably lower than the profits of recycling these materials. Google is indeed the solution to all! ...sorry, the snark is strong tonight.

    7. Re:Robotics by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      Because China still generates plastics from raw materials cheaper than recycled plastic can be processed. If it was cost effective (with AI / robotics or otherwise) then someone would be doing it.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    8. Re:Robotics by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      The problem with any automation strategy is that if only 70% of the material from single-stream recycling can reasonably be recycled, 30% is simply garbage and too little is sufficiently high value to warrant the investment.

      Hell, most people don’t realize they can’t recycle their coffee cup from Starbucks.

    9. Re:Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't post that ransomware bullshit here. You should be banned.

    10. Re:Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite true, if the plastic is properly sorted it's cheaper. But America was sending over mixed up junk, not like other countries recyclables.

    11. Re:Robotics by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If you get a cold drink, then everything but the straw is recyclable. Just tell everyone to get cold drinks and avoid #6 plastics.

    12. Re: Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or get a water bottle and stop paying money for your drinks.

    13. Re:Robotics by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Seriously, now is the time for Robotics to be brought up to speed on separating goods.

      Cardboard made from plantation trees and stored in landfill is actually a form of carbon sequestration which a good for the environment. It just makes it hard to process when the paper/cardboard is glued to plastic or glass. Simplified packaging would go a long way to solving this issue.

    14. Re:Robotics by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Exactly. So why hasn't anyone created an AI robot that can do this? I'll wait for an answer.

      You are anyone, maybe you could start us off with your reason?

    15. Re:Robotics by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Nah. I'll let you guys figure out why AI Go playing computers can't seem to do anything useful.

    16. Re: Robotics by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Or drink your water directly from the stream and stop wasting petroleum making reusable water bottles.

    17. Re:Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, now is the time for Robotics to be brought up to speed on separating goods. All metals are easy to take out but then you are still left with plastics, glass, and paper as well as items made from assortments of these (think TV). Robotics can solve a lot of this,with a bit of human labor to act on QA. BUT, what is important, is to keep the items HERE. We paid for the elements. Keep them here to produce with.

      I have no idea why you think robots would be optimal here. Machines do a great job already.

    18. Re:Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a cost analysis to show that the operating cost of these robots will be notably lower than the profits of recycling these materials.

      That is the true root of the problem. Glass, metals, and paper can be recycled profitably because doing so saves significant energy compared to making the same products from raw materials. Producing plastics from raw material is so cheap that it undercuts the economic case for recycling.

    19. Re:Robotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The solution is likely to scale back and try to do less which might actually do more in the long run. We've been overzealous in our pushes for recycling. Much of it has no real market to begin with. We've shrunk garbage cans and reduced pick up frequency all in an attempt to prod people to recycle more. This has increased the flow of dirty stuff in to the recycle bins and created more confusion over what goes in them. When you have a tiny garbage can and a giant recycle bin as well as the eco-warriors yelling about recycling, people error on the side of recycling if in doubt.

      We need to change the mind set. Garbage if in doubt. Keep the recycling to easy to process, high value materials. Keep it simple and aim for a high rate of those materials in an uncontaminated form. Fancy AI and sorting machines don't solve the problem of one person throwing a jar full of some fluid in to their bin destroying a whole truck full of materials. Sorting machines won't necessarily see that a crumpled piece of cardboard might be a greasy pizza box on one side and look clean on the outside.

      All this material came from the earth. Putting some back in a hole is not the end of the world. Who knows, our land fills might be high value mines in the distant future. What we're doing now with recycling is wasteful and inefficient. We've pushed beyond the practical limits because of ideology and feel good politics. Less is often more. Find the right balance and we'll be better off.

    20. Re:Robotics by WindBourne · · Score: 1
      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  7. Legislate Color Codeing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why don't we color code plastics by type? Wouldn't that make automated sorting trivial?

    1. Re:Legislate Color Codeing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reduce the types of plastics down to 3 or 4 too.

  8. It is solvable by Strider- · · Score: 5, Informative

    By getting rid of single stream recycling, as well as deposits on beverage containers.

    The primary recycling organization in British Columbia, Canada, and still sell this stuff to China. Why? Because the level of contamination is within their standards.

    This is achieved through a couple of mechanisms:

    First, we do not have single stream recycling. People are forced to sort their plastic containers from their glass from their paper from their organics. It's easy, wherever you are in public that has recycling bins, there's always a bin for each.

    Secondly, there are deposits on all non-essential beverage containers. Pretty much everything other than milk has a deposit ranging from $0.05 for a 355ml pop can to $0.20 for 2L pop bottles. There's also an environmental tax that's collected at the time of sale, ranging between $0.01 for the can to $0.16 for a gable-top juice carton. This also extends to the stupidity that is bottled water, and so forth, and represents an enormous portion of the plastic waste.

    Thirdly, beer bottles are collected, washed, and refilled. Breweries big and small can all sign up for the program, and get clean Industry Standard Bottles delivered to them. They paste on their labels, fill, and cap with custom twist-off caps, and sell to the consumer. On average, a bottle will make it through the system 10 times before it breaks or is lost.

    So yeah, it can be done, people just need to get off their asses and do it.

    --
    ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    1. Re:It is solvable by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      How are recyclables collected from the home? Separate trash barrels for each material type?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    2. Re:It is solvable by jouassou · · Score: 4, Informative

      Scandinavian here. Near each house, we have one bin for recycling paper, one bin for food waste, and one for non-recyclable waste. Most convenience stores have an automated system for recycling bottles and cans (you get money back for each object you return, since especially aluminum cans are expensive to make from scratch). Throughout the city (usually outside large convenience stores), there are then centralized containers where you can throw away other objects made of metal, glass, plastic, and paper for recycling (one container per category). In addition, electronic waste can be returned at electronics stores for recycling, and the salvation army operates recycling points for clothes.

    3. Re:It is solvable by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I *want* to separate my recyclables into metal, glass, paper, and plastic. That's the way I was taught to do it. It takes almost no additional effort for me to throw my recyclables into one of four boxes I used to have set up for these categories, versus a lot of effort for some poor schmuck who has to be paid to sort through a huge mount of mixed recyclables.

      My trash hauling service (who has a monopoly service contract with my city) however insists on mixing them all up. If I give them three boxes with the recyclables all sorted, they simply dump them into a single bin on the collection truck. The story they told me is that they pay prisoners to sort it for them, as they found that was cheaper than designing hauling trucks with 3/4 separate bins and making sure the curbside recycling bins were dumped into the correct bin on the truck. (Which if true should make you think twice about recycling old paper bills and such - they go into my shredder now.)

      So no, it's not just a matter of people getting off their asses and doing it.

    4. Re:It is solvable by Known+Nutter · · Score: 4, Informative

      How are recyclables collected from the home? Separate trash barrels for each material type?

      Three stream systems.

      Here is some information on how it is done in Victoria, B.C.

      https://www.crd.bc.ca/service/...

      https://www.crd.bc.ca/docs/def...

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    5. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sequentially numbers bags for each stream, if you put the wrong shit in the wrong bag you pay a higher rate, it is that simple.

    6. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, bluebags for the plastic etc. One bin for organics and one for trash (Green and Black). Roll them out usually garbage is every second week but organics every week. Blue bags every pickup cycle. Truck with arms engages the bins and dumps them, Garbage truck and a Organics. Bins are inspected every so often and if you have organics in a non degradable bag they usually put a oops sticker on your bin and don't pick it up until you fix it. Your choice then to clean up the bin and remove the offending stuff or pay a fee to dump it in the trash collection area.

    7. Re:It is solvable by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      By getting rid of single stream recycling, as well as deposits on beverage containers.

      The primary recycling organization in British Columbia, Canada, and still sell this stuff to China. Why? Because the level of contamination is within their standards.

      This is achieved through a couple of mechanisms:

      First, we do not have single stream recycling. People are forced to sort their plastic containers from their glass from their paper from their organics. It's easy, wherever you are in public that has recycling bins, there's always a bin for each.

      Secondly, there are deposits on all non-essential beverage containers. Pretty much everything other than milk has a deposit ranging from $0.05 for a 355ml pop can to $0.20 for 2L pop bottles. There's also an environmental tax that's collected at the time of sale, ranging between $0.01 for the can to $0.16 for a gable-top juice carton. This also extends to the stupidity that is bottled water, and so forth, and represents an enormous portion of the plastic waste.

      Thirdly, beer bottles are collected, washed, and refilled. Breweries big and small can all sign up for the program, and get clean Industry Standard Bottles delivered to them. They paste on their labels, fill, and cap with custom twist-off caps, and sell to the consumer. On average, a bottle will make it through the system 10 times before it breaks or is lost.

      So yeah, it can be done, people just need to get off their asses and do it.

      We have the same recycle thing here in the murricans wasteland, other than the deposits. But the metal gets mostly recycled anyway. A truck comes around once a week, and if you don't have things separated correctly it won't pick it up. It's towing a trailer with around ten different bins. Plastic - different types, brown glass green glass clear glass Newspapers magazines - small cardboard.

      There are types of plastic that need segregated - but the local conservancy has bins for that.

      But all in all, how far do we go to get these lazy bastards off their asses? I'm being sarcastic. There are a lot of ways to sort different plastics. Density comes to mind. Used in mineral separation all the time. In addition, cutting the number of different types used down might help as well. Perhaps the Chinese government might consider some research into sorting and the technology involved - because they are the largest source of plastic pollution. Might help them clean up the disaster they are creating.

      Here ya go, a nice piccy of their issue https://www.verdict.co.uk/yang...

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Which if true should make you think twice about recycling old paper bills and such - they go into my shredder now.

      They always went into my shredder. Any plain paper with your details should be shredded and then sent to the kerbside garden waste (or used in your at-home compost). That said, I'm finding more and more glossy marketing shit with my details printed on it and that crap isn't good for the garden.

    9. Re:It is solvable by radarskiy · · Score: 2

      "getting rid of single stream recycling"

      One of the problems cited is "so many people tossed waste into the wrong bin", which implies systems where there is not single stream recycling. You propose no solution for this, since you didn't seem to notice that they're already doing this.

      This can be solved by having the collector sort the recyclables, which means that not having single stream recycling offers no benefit.

    10. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you do with products that are made from a combination of different materials? Like plastic containers with paper labels, or cardboard containers with plastic panels, glass bottles with metal cap fittings and paper labels, bottletops lined with rubber, paper with a plastic coating... let's face it, about 75% of the contents of my trash?

    11. Re: It is solvable by zeiche · · Score: 1

      I would feel uncomfortable with sequentially-numbered refuse bags. Seems like it would be a privacy issue. I like my trash anonymous like my posts.

    12. Re:It is solvable by mykro76 · · Score: 1

      People are forced to sort their plastic containers from their glass from their paper from their organics. It's easy, wherever you are in public that has recycling bins, there's always a bin for each.

      I'm curious - do you have separate bins for these at home as well? In Australia we already have 3 large bins per household; green for organics, yellow for recycling and red for waste. From your post it seems like we'd need 5 bins as the yellow would have to split further into Plastic, Glass and Paper.

    13. Re:It is solvable by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe the issue is more that packaging has intentionally been marked in very misleading manner by the plastics & packaging industry that suggests to the consumer that the item is recyclable when it frequently is not. This leads to people with good intentions adding a lot of contimation to recycling.

      This issue can't be fixed by cities or consumers, the answer is to settle on a minimum set of plastics that we can easily recycle then make have large fines for companies packaging goods using other plastics or other non-recyclables.

    14. Re: It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? Your time costs them nothing.

    15. Re:It is solvable by Strider- · · Score: 1

      I'll be honest, I don't know much about what happens in single family homes, as I've lived in condos for the past 20 years, but in our underground parking, there's the landfill bin, the corrugated cardboard bin, two glass bins, two paper, two containers, and an organics, for a 43 unit building.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    16. Re:It is solvable by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      ...and get clean Industry Standard Bottles delivered to them. They paste on their labels, fill, and cap with custom twist-off caps, and sell to the consumer. On average, a bottle will make it through the system 10 times before it breaks or is lost.

      So yeah, it can be done, people just need to get off their asses and do it.

      First issue, why bother with a label? Surely that adds energy to both add and remove that isn't really required?
      Second, I realise this won't work for everyone, but with the explosion in microbreweries I now have 5 of them within walking distance of my house. Most of them do takeaway Growlers so you simply use your own vessel, vastly reducing waste.

    17. Re:It is solvable by 4im · · Score: 1

      Where I live, this is solved by picking up the different bins on different dates. At my place, non-recyclable trash is collected on Tuesdays, plastics (bottles etc.) are picked up every 2nd Monday, organics are picked up on Fridays. No special trucks required.

      There are containers for paper, glass and clothes in many places around the town, so you just deposit those there when you've collected a bunch.

      Other recyclables get collected in a larger center - you drive there, deposit whatever it is (electronics, wood, metals, etc) in the proper bins. If you are in doubt which is right or for large or heavy stuff, you'll get help from the employees. They also accept still functional stuff you don't want to keep that anyone can then pick up.

      Pretty much the only challenge is to have enough burnable stuff left in the non-recylables bin, for when it gets incinerated (for energy).

    18. Re:It is solvable by vlad30 · · Score: 1
      BC Canada is a little smarter the NSW Aus here they only accept cans/bottles that are intact and can be scanned by the machine which are few and far between see https://returnandearn.org.au/ but realise that the number of claimed depots are BS many closed when they worked out it wasn't worth the space or employee cost very fast. The places that don't have machines still won't accept them as they have to take them to a machine. Of course people who like to throw their trash now make sure no one wants to collect it as they crush the can/bottle just because they thinks its funny. Also 10c for any bottle glass plastic big small can. for those who collect them guess which give the best return

      Councils give us a single stream bin having replaced the multiple bins years ago and in some areas those are tipped out to get the good bottles leaving entire streets looking third world shanty town in the morning of course being single stream china doesn't want that anymore either.

      Now add that having a bin each for bottles/paper/plastic we don't have anywhere to store them thats why they got rid of them in the first place. plus it meant more truck runs

      also if they see one contaminated item in the truck and they tip the whole truck into land fill do. so you only need one person to do the wrong thing and entire streets recycling will end up in landfill

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    19. Re:It is solvable by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of ways to sort different plastics.

      Why bother? Add enough heat, and they all turn back into short hydrocarbon chains that you can reform into whatever kind of plastic you want. :-)

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    20. Re:It is solvable by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      This can be solved by having the collector sort the recyclables, which means that not having single stream recycling offers no benefit.

      This is what happens locally to me:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      It's Southwark waste management facility, which is basically a massive sorting machine that takes in single stream recycling and further splits it up into glass, paper, mixed plastics, aluminium, steel and non recyclable rubbish.

      There's quite a lot of benefit: you don't need to trust people to sort peoperly, people only need one recyclables bin (space is an issue in a city), you have fewer journeys from the dustbin lorries and so on.

      If you're a nerd and in London on one of its open days it's well worth a visit to get the tour around the separting system.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    21. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your hauling company is talking rot - we have a large lorry that comes to collect the apartment's bins - we have "wheely bins" for separate streams, they hook them to the side of the lorry and then it lifts up and over - the contents are tipped into partitioned areas inside - small ones for glass, metal, and a huge area for paper.

      Probably what they are saying is that its much easier for them to collect if its all one bucket instead of 3 or 4.

    22. Re:It is solvable by Daralantan · · Score: 1

      Thirdly, beer bottles are collected, washed, and refilled. Breweries big and small can all sign up for the program, and get clean Industry Standard Bottles delivered to them. They paste on their labels, fill, and cap with custom twist-off caps, and sell to the consumer. On average, a bottle will make it through the system 10 times before it breaks or is lost.

      This part reminds me of something I've always wondered in bars. It always sounds like the bartenders are throwing bottles into their bins hard enough to break them. I wonder how many would end up re-usable after that / how fast they'd break.

      It always seems like they are throwing them intentionally too hard.

    23. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another scandinavian here, living in a big apartment house complex. We have three recycling stations for our houses, in a small shed, just outside our front doors. Each recycling station has the following bins:
      - metal
      - plastic
      - paper
      - cardboard
      - generic large waste
      - clear glass
      - colored glass
      - batteries
      - light bulbs (and halogen)
      - fluorescent tubes/bulbs
      - electronics

      Less than half a mile from our house there is a municipal station that also accepts all forms of hazardous materials (chemicals, paint, solvent, used paintbrushes etc).

      As for ordinary household waste (compostable) we have a garbage chute next to the front door of the buildings.

      And as jouassou said, since aluminum cans and PET-bottles are covered by a deposit program which makes it desirable to return them they goes directly to the stores.

      Yes, I am living in a densely populated area, so this makes it easy to build infrastructure for recycling, but also necessary if you want to live in a environment that isn't too polluted. If we, as a society, wants to we can do it. Yes, it is sad that the plastics China used to buy for recycling now are of a too bad quality due to contamination. We should feel ashamed over not being able to do something so mundane as sorting our own garbage correctly.

      In some places, mostly suburban areas, you pay for the municipality collecting your garbage. You cannot opt out of garbage collection, but you CAN opt for them to collect it less frequently. My parents started composting everything they could for use in their garden, and sort the stuff they can hand in for free at the recycling centers. As a result they produce less than a small shopping bag of garbage per month. So when the garbage truck comes to empty their bin it is less than 10% full, even though they have the least frequent pickup schedule. They save money on it and we all save the environment.

    24. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First issue, why bother with a label? Surely that adds energy to both add and remove that isn't really required?

      Sometimes they are required. I see two main reasons for labeling your beverages:

      1. Marketing - the breweries want you to immediately recognize their product and if the only branding is the cap, it becomes less obvious.
      2. Information - the manufacturers are required to print some information about the product on the label, as well as a bar-code so that stores can scan the products.

      But the label isn't a problem. You need to wash the bottles anyway, and the hot water will remove the labels from the bottles, so it happens during the cleaning process.

    25. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are different types of glass containers. Those that are standardized and used in such a recycling program, and those that are melted down to make new glass products. The first type needs to be of sturdier construction, so the glass in them is usually thicker and thus the bottles heavier.

      Where I live, almost all wine and beer used to be in bottles of the first kind (not sparkling wine/cava/Champaigne due to the high pressure of the contents). But due to deregulation imports started coming in at a much larger scale, and that recycling program eventually shut down. But we still recycle the glass itself. There are still some bottle types used for soda and beer that uses the old system. You can see it when you buy those brands, the bottles are usually worn on the outside. Those bottles also come with a deposit, which means people usually return them (and if they don't, kids and homeless people make some extra money from gathering those).

      So if your bartender throws the bottles so they break, they are probably single use bottles that are recycled for material. He might do it to make room for more bottles in the recycling containers. The bottles that are reused gets collected by the breweries when they deliver the next time.

    26. Re:It is solvable by twosat · · Score: 1

      Sounds like my city of Christchurch, New Zealand, has copied our rubbish bin system from Australia.

    27. Re:It is solvable by swb · · Score: 2

      I love single stream, I don't care how inefficient it is. I follow the recycling guidelines closely. Everything that is recyclable per our regulations get recycled.

      With pre-sort, I only bothered with the newspapers and aluminum because my kitchen didn't have enough room for 4-5 separate bins for different kinds of containers, and I didn't generate enough glass for it to be worth it.

      What I don't get is, why don't we have more packaging regulations? Why can't we get rid of all plastic bottles and make beverage makers use aluminum or glass exclusively? Aluminum seems superior in every way, even to glass -- non-breakable, there's only one kind, easy to recycle, both light *and* it blocks light.

    28. Re:It is solvable by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      In Germany, there are usually three glass containers for a city block, one for clear glass, one for brown and one for green. When it comes to paper, it differs from town to town since waste management is a municipal responsibility, hence some towns use household bins, others use containers similar to the glass containers and usually at the same site.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    29. Re:It is solvable by houghi · · Score: 2

      Oder a Micro SD card via Amazon and you will know how much shit it goed with. It is a micro SD card inside a SD card, inside a plastic shell thing that has a certain size because it needs to big enogh to be seen in a store. That is then put in a cardboard envelope the size of Canada.

      It is deliverd at my door. As I was not home and it did not fit in the mailbox, they put a paper in my mailbox fore me to pick up the googd.

      And all this for the size of a pinky nail. I am sure better and smaller solutions can be thought of.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    30. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay for trash service, and the service comes with two bins. One for trash, and one for recyclables.

      And I follow the instructions very carefully. I even rinse bottles and cans. Pizza boxes and dirty cardboard go in the trash bin.

      If there is a problem here it is NOT on my end of the chain.
         

    31. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This can be solved by having the collector sort the recyclables, which means that not having single stream recycling offers no benefit.

      This is what happens locally to me:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      It's Southwark waste management facility, which is basically a massive sorting machine that takes in single stream recycling and further splits it up into glass, paper, mixed plastics, aluminium, steel and non recyclable rubbish.

      There's quite a lot of benefit: you don't need to trust people to sort peoperly, people only need one recyclables bin (space is an issue in a city), you have fewer journeys from the dustbin lorries and so on.

      If you're a nerd and in London on one of its open days it's well worth a visit to get the tour around the separting system.

      Plus back when they tried to get people to sort it at home hardly anyone bothered and also the refuse companies couldn't afford to send multiple trucks out on multiple days to cover everything. Going to single-stream a) greatly increased participation and b) it's much more efficient to sort it at a central location and not deal with people who did put the wrong stuff in the wrong bins on a case-per-case basis.

    32. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By getting rid of single stream recycling, as well as deposits on beverage containers.

      Because if there's one thing that will get more people to participate in something, it's making it more complicated.

    33. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can safely step deposits up, they are returned to customer anyway, and the larger they are, the better they work.
      Make deposits non-trivial and that would command respect.
      Basically put penalty for littering into price of any packaged product. Whoever doesn't return the package - obviously, littered environment!

    34. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I live, this is solved by picking up the different bins on different dates. At my place, non-recyclable trash is collected on Tuesdays, plastics (bottles etc.) are picked up every 2nd Monday, organics are picked up on Fridays. No special trucks required.

      That can't be cheaper than having special trucks and 1/3 the man power.

    35. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Estonian here (a tiny country close to Scandinavia). We have exactly the same - mandatory waste sorting at home, automated recycling for all bottles, etc. I believe many European countries have the same, or are planning to have.

      It works really well. Have a beer at a park and leave the can there? It will be gone at no time as this means 10 to someone else.

    36. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even with single-stream recycling, there is a "wrong" bin; non-recyclable items that seem recyclable (greasy pizza boxes, light bulbs, #7 "other" plastics) end up in recycling bins.

      You are right in that the recycler is going to have to sort anyway, so single-stream is the way to go.

    37. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deposits are absurd. Instead of making use of curbside recycling or public recycling receptacles (which are obviously not needed if you can count on random people picking up litter for the deposit), you want people to separate out certain recyclables and take them to one or more locations (depending on which locations will take which containers) where there is little financial incentive to keep the machines and/or facilities in good shape. Screw deposits. The machines at my grocery store are about a decade old and have probably never been properly serviced. Half of them are down or full at any given time, problems that are generally solved by jabbing them with a stick or shaking the collection bin to get another few containers to go through. Everything is filthy. But they still want to expand the deposit program because every deposit container that goes into regular recycling is more money for the government slush fund. Some people would sooner throw them in the trash rather than recycle them without getting the deposit purely out of spite. It's all a scam pulled in the name of environmentalism.

    38. Re:It is solvable by CrazyCaps · · Score: 1

      In Michigan (USA) you take them to the grocery store and get your deposit back. It is 0.10 cents a can/bottle and adds up fast. The amount of waste along the side of the roads and in the Great Lakes is greatly reduced from this.

      --
      Drive it like you stole it!
    39. Re:It is solvable by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      I fully agree with the second point. In principle at least. When packaging food products, the resin choice can depend on reactivity with and of the contents. Would be nice to say "use glass for everything" but that has the side-effect of weight costing more to transport, etc.

      I think the problem is less labeling than the inconsistent guidance consumers are given. For example, cartons used for eg. soy milk are multi-layer laminates that conventional wisdom says are impractical to recycle -- yet we're told here to put them in the recycling bin. Many paper items that elsewhere go into yard/food waste here are trash -- except pizza boxes. The solid waste people send out a poster that disagrees with the sticker they put on the collection bin, and both are way too vague. We are told explicitly to recycle based on shape not on resin, so I can only imagine that metals are extracted and the rest burned or landfilled.

      As for single-stream vs separate, it's not so much a matter of saving people a few seconds as of compliance: people in this country have a stick up their ass about doing the right thing, and having to exercise even a modicum of judgement.

    40. Re:It is solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same. We had a thriving third party business operating a curbside recycling pickup (sorted recyclables). Of course it was voluntary, and cost money and was not used by everyone. Promotion and social concious could have made it a more widespread service. It could have even been mandated.

      But no. Instead the city rolled out a blue bin project. Charged everyone a flat fee (whether they needed it or used it). Forced everyone to throw their combined recycling into a single bin, un-sorted. Pat themselves on the back for a job well done with news coverage. In the mean time it forced the curbside recycling out of business and replaced communal garbage pickup with individual garbage pickup. Now the recycle bins are mostly used for garbage over-flow. I have no doubt that 90% of the collected 'recycling' is deemed un-usable and simply trucked off to the dump.

    41. Re:It is solvable by baerd · · Score: 1

      It is different depending on whether you live in a house or a condo/apartment in Victoria, in condos at least you do NOT participate in the blue box program; separate out kitchen waste/paper/everything else (plastic/metal/glass all in one) and then garbage. So you do not yourself have to separate out the plastic from the glass etc that all goes into a single bin and someone downstream separates it out - maybe the companies that do the collecting do the sorting as well. I don't know what percentage of people here are in houses vs condos/apartments but it is good to know that the rules are not the same for everyone, us poor downtrodden condo dwellers actually get more convenient recycling. But everyone recycles.

      --
      I wish I had a lawn.
    42. Re:It is solvable by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Why can't we get rid of all plastic bottles and make beverage makers use aluminum or glass exclusively?

      We can't force a switch to glass. It's breakable, which would increase loss rates, but most importantly, it's heavy. Glass containers safe enough to be used in the home have a minimum thickness which results in containers considerably heavier than any other container. Yes it's possible to make a very thin glass container (a la Christmas ornaments), but any little thing breaks them, and then you have splinters of glass in your food. Bad news.

      Aluminum, on the other hand, could be the way to go. It's nonreactive, since the aluminum oxide skin it develops is quite tough, it's not breakable, it can be made very thin while retaining integrity, and it's very easily recyclable. The only utility disadvantage it has over plastic is it's not squeezable. If I was in the aluminum business, I'd be coming up with new package designs and trying to sell them to food companies of all kinds, not just beverage companies.

      Actually, I'd say reconditioning consumers to accept water in an aluminum can would be harder than getting them to accept, say, olives or yogurt or mayonnaise in an aluminum can.

    43. Re:It is solvable by swb · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't people accept water in an aluminum can? Is it just that most people are stupid? I mean, people drink tons of beverages in aluminum, especially beer and soda, but also energy drinks, and even wine lately. Hell, in some disaster scenarios Budweiser has switched their canning lines to just can water.

      I'm kind of curious what the economics are of aluminum versus plastic bottles. Most convenience-type stores have plastic bottles of soda in 16 or 20 oz sizes, but I've seen a few places with "tall boy" 16 oz aluminum cans and have always wondered why they're not more common.

      My guess is plastic is cheaper than aluminum, but given the sheer volume of aluminum can usage I'd wager it's not that much cheaper.

  9. Incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Chinese Recycling industry was born from the trade imbalance. The shipping container industry needed to offset the cost of return trips to Chinese ports to offset the inbound goods, which depressed the price of outbound trips (like what happens with Uhaul trips out of Florida or into California). At the same time, you had municipal recycling programs with too much trash, so it suddenly became real cheap to âoeoutsourceâ and donâ(TM)t ask questions. The trash ended up in landfills in some other country, but the munis didnâ(TM)t care, they were getting subsidies for their recycling programs. Now that the US imports are in decline, the logistics donâ(TM)t make economic sense anymore, so itâ(TM)s time for the programs to scale back.

    1. Re:Incorrect by rojash · · Score: 1

      I likey..but why cant I upvote this post ?? I can others....cmon /. !!

    2. Re:Incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because this is not Reddit. It is also not Digg or Kuro5hin.

    3. Re:Incorrect by bracktra · · Score: 1

      That's why no one comes here anymore.

    4. Re:Incorrect by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Now that the US imports are in decline, the logistics donâ(TM)t make economic sense anymore, so itâ(TM)s time for the programs to scale back.

      Yes that must be it. That is exactly why china is refusing to take any waste from specific nations only which have high level of recycling contamination.

      Seriously you're right about why it started, but you're wrong about why it ended. If your scenario made even remote amount of sense then it would follow a supply and demand pricing adjustment. But it didn't. What it did do was change the quality requirements which affected different countries completely independently of trade imbalances, and resulted in other countries which didn't have the same shipping advantage picking up the slack at a much higher cost.

  10. BINGO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have a WINNER here.
    Far too many people really do not stay up on this and believe in all the BS that they are fed. You obviously stay up on what is happening.
    And what most people do not realize is that it was CHINA ITSELF that pushed for single stream.

  11. Whole Foods sucks in this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The labels Whole Foods uses for waste bins in its dining areas are totally confusing. I don't see how any of its customer discards can be recycled or composted.

  12. Gwinnett County Georgia does it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All in one bin, and they no longer accept glass.

  13. JOB FOR AMERICANS! by hackingbear · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorting out valuables from trash should take a lot of labors, right?

    So we have been blaming the Chinese taking over all of our American jobs. Now, the Chinese don't want these garbage scavenging jobs, then my question is why don't Americans take these jobs if they are so desperately trying to win back jobs from China.

    Stop blaming others when you are being picky! Hypocrisy at its most ugly form!

     

    1. Re:JOB FOR AMERICANS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop blaming others when you are being picky! Hypocrisy at its most ugly form!

      FYI, Americans are too stupid to do that kind of sophisticated job.

      Jobs like that are often reserved for H1-B visa holders.

    2. Re:JOB FOR AMERICANS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay Chang.

    3. Re:JOB FOR AMERICANS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we have been blaming the Chinese taking over all of our American jobs.

      Here's the setup for the straw man.

      Now, the Chinese don't want these garbage scavenging jobs, then my question is why don't Americans take these jobs if they are so desperately trying to win back jobs from China.

      And here's the non-sequitur that results.

      First, nobody's blaming China for taking American jobs. In fact, Trump himself said the Chinese were doing what they should be doing in taking advantage of the trade imbalance. The blame is with American companies who are mortgaging the American way of life to boost profits.

      Second, the reason sorting recyclables after collection doesn't happen in the United States is because the labor cost exceeds the value of the material. Why would you do something that loses money?

      So, you managed to make a fool of yourself with your innuendo. The worst part is that you couldn't even make a valid point.

  14. Stop recyling paper by Spazmania · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The non-obvious solution: stop recycling paper.

    Metal and plastics are relatively easy to separate.

    Paper = wood = carbon. We keep talking about carbon sequestration. How about burying it in a landfill and planting replacement trees to cycle yet more carbon dioxide in to oxygen?

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:Stop recyling paper by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      no.Bio-mod it. IOW, burn it. Northern Europe does this and they have the right idea.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:Stop recyling paper by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      If you burn it, it releases carbon dioxide back in to the air.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    3. Re:Stop recyling paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's fine, because that carbon is already part of the current carbon cycle. It was only removed temporarily, first into a tree, then into paper. If the tree had died naturally, the carbon would be released by processes of natural decay over a period of years. That carbon, the carbon that's already in the biosphere, is manageable. That's why power generation from coppicing is perfectly fine.

      It's the huge volumes of fossilised carbon that's been sequestered away from the biosphere for millions of years before being released in the industrial age - that's the problem.

    4. Re:Stop recyling paper by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Paper is one of the more profitable to recycle- at least if it's separated.

    5. Re:Stop recyling paper by Spazmania · · Score: 0

      Wut? Carbon is carbon. Fresh carbon and fossilized carbon become the exact same carbon dioxide molecule when burned or allowed to decay. When buried instead (like in a landfill) carbon-containing materials re-enter the cycle that created fossilized carbon in the first place.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    6. Re:Stop recyling paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes carbon is carbon.

      But if you make a bag from paper that come from a tree, then burn it you are not adding much carbon to the system. Possibly none. Even if you do it 1000 times you add no* carbon to the system.

      *If the production method doesn't add any other carbon, like machinery running on diesel fuel

    7. Re:Stop recyling paper by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      It's easier to leave fossil carbon in the ground than it is to bury fresh carbon.

    8. Re:Stop recyling paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do realize that most printed paper is a mixture of paper and plastic, right? What's laser toner powder but plastic dust?

    9. Re:Stop recyling paper by vlad30 · · Score: 1

      Paper = wood = carbon. We keep talking about carbon sequestration. How about burying it in a landfill and planting replacement trees to cycle yet more carbon dioxide in to oxygen?

      while your at it throw in other organic matter and any pesky species and in a couple Millenia or so plenty of oil for future generations. you really think an asteroid ended those pesky dinosaurs

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    10. Re:Stop recyling paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're going to dig/suck fossil carbon out of the ground anyway. Bury old paper, plant new trees and you at least sequester SOME carbon.

    11. Re:Stop recyling paper by baerd · · Score: 2

      In google maps you can see the horrible scars left on the land by logging in western Canada and US, it is truly staggering how much tree cover has been removed. Re-using paper means cutting down less trees and that is a noble goal. You can plant replacement trees but the degradation of the environment (in terms of habitat of natural species) from the initial and subsequent logging takes centuries to be undone. Throwing paper in a landfill is not a sensible solution to anything.

      --
      I wish I had a lawn.
    12. Re:Stop recyling paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some cities have compost bins where you can put paper as well as food scraps. Even greasy pizza boxes and paper coffee cups, but no plastic. Ideally all cities should have compost bins. And if it turns out that composting paper is better than recycling it, we can put all paper into the compost.

  15. Mod parent up please. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    We also need to put deposits on metal, glass, and plastics. If we did, then ppl would actually recycle the main core.
    As to paper, and some of the plastics, bio-waste it. The paper comes from trees so not a big deal if we burn it. Some of the plastics can be burned cleaned, or recycled.

    Robotics really is here and it is long past time to put it to work on things like this. Esp. with taking apart TVs, Computers, and all electronics. Hell, we sell MILLIONS of iphones. They are ideal for robotic recycling. At he least, crush, and melt out the good elements.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Mod parent up please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The liberal solution to everything: add fees and a government agency to collect them all the while increasing the cost of living. You end up with more homeless people dumping out people's trash to rummage through it, littering the stretes. You end up with people having to keep multiple bins of crap in their houses to collect stuff that they then have to transport someplace (using a a car) to wait in line to feed stuff to a machine that's filthy and often unreliable. This is not a viable solution. It's just a leftists social engineering project.

  16. Re: Easy Design Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The recycling bins LOOK the same and when in a hurry people DON'T READ the label.

    Shape the bottle bin like a bottle, the paper bin like a tree, the glass bin transparent

  17. The recycling system is discouraging by imidan · · Score: 1

    I used to have curbside recycling service. I'd separate my recyclables and put them in paper bags in a bin, and someone would come haul them off. Then we went 'single stream' and for some reason I can't have curbside service anymore. Annoying, but whatever.

    So I bring it to the recycling center myself. I used to put my #1 plastic in one bin, #2 in another, and so on. The number is printed on the item, so it's easy. But then there were opaque rules about certain kinds of #1 in this bin and other kinds in that, the formerly #2 bin now just says 'milk jugs' so I guess they don't take other kinds of #2? And now they've gotten to the point where most of it goes in one big bin which I assume just gets dumped somewhere.

    They used to make us separate brown, green, and clear glass, but it turned out that all they do with it is crush it into little bits and bury it in a big pit in the landfill, so why bother sorting by color?

    The thing that's really discouraging to me is that I'm perfectly willing to participate in a recycling system by putting forth some effort to rinse, sort, and even transport my trash, but why should I even bother with all of this if the 'recycling center' is just an unnecessarily elaborate front-end for the dump?

    1. Re:The recycling system is discouraging by ledow · · Score: 1

      It's quite simple.

      Recycling is a con. Most of the UK recycling ends up in foreign landfill. That recycling that can be done easily costs us millions of pounds, on top of council tax, often to a "declared interest" of a senior figure in local government who cherry-pick the easy (paper, metal) and landfill the rest. They may even "get the right documentation" from the people in question, but several tracking projects have proven this stuff just ends up in landfill.

      It only works because you're spending YOUR time, energy, water, etc. on cleaning and separating so that they don't have to. Even then, it's not profitable for most things, except the cherry-pick items they want you to recycle because it's profitable for them.

      It's easy to hide the cost of washing, sorting, collecting (in my area three separate diesel lorries at slow-speed, during rush-hours, down every road, with four guys throwing tons of rubbish in the back, then driving back to a processing plant somewhere), etc. when the populous are doing it for you. Then the energy / labour involved in sorting / recycling again is quite high. There are contaminations and losses and processing to do and bleaching and all kinds of things. And then you re-sell something that took all that, in the same format that you can buy that stuff brand-new, and expect it to cost less? It's not really going to work out very well at all except for things we've ALWAYS recycled (metal, glass, paper).

      I'm sure you *can* do it, but it's a cost, not a profit. And the cost has been spread out over council tax, specific waste-collection tax (and severe restrictions on waste collected in recent years, e.g. number of bins, etc.), and people's own enforced investment (washing out your own stuff, at your own expense).

      Because it's a cost, it's hard to make profit. Because it's hard to make profit, it costs more, and fewer places do it. And then it costs something like GBP80 to landfill a ton of waste and you think "why are we bothering" (there are reasons, of course, but they aren't compatible with profit). They can make it more difficult for you so that you have to do more work for them, and they have to do less work, and that's the increasing trend.

      My local council provide only one bin for "garden waste" (the most easily recycled of all, basically it recycles itself into compost, you just leave it lying around in a heap and maybe water it a bit). They *charge* if you throw away more than that or want more than fortnightly collection. And that's the EASY one. The others you can't ask for more collections unless you hire a private company to do the job.

      They literally don't WANT your recycling, or your unrecycled waste, or even your garden waste. There's no money in it. Only "green credentials" at enormous cost.

  18. Require bio-degradable packaging. by willy_me · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For starters, apply a tax to items packaged with non-biodegradable plastic. Exceptions for certain types of products as required. This will encourage packaging to be redesigned to utilize plastics that can be processed along with compost. Gradually increase the tax until biodegradable packaging becomes the norm. For those non-biodegradable plastics that are still required, a tax / refund-upon-return should be applied to assist paying for post-consumer recycling. Adding design elements to make such plastics easy to identify, such as a specific color, would also be a good idea.

    Some packaging would no longer be available. Oh well, it is just packaging and does not represent much of a loss. For example, consider plastic retainers for 6-packs of canned beer. We would just have to revert back to a cardboard box - only a small sacrifice.

    Note that I am referring to packaging - not final products. Such requirements on final products would unnecessarily restrict innovation. Packaging represents the majority of waste and is where we should start.

    1. Re:Require bio-degradable packaging. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      For starters, apply a tax to items packaged with non-biodegradable plastic.

      And please make this tax massive, and scale it according to absurdity. Maybe add a few cents to the cost of a plastic sealed container containing spices, but make sure you charge $10 fucking dollars a pop to idiot companies that individiually wrap avacados in plastic.

      Bonus points for making the package difficult to open, like those hard formed plastic packaging, and an extra penality for using that to wrap around knives or scissors. If I could open that damn package I wouldn't be in the shop buying scissors now would I!

    2. Re:Require bio-degradable packaging. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This will encourage packaging to be redesigned to utilize plastics that can be processed along with compost

      This will encourage manufacturers to increase the cost of the product and pass it on to the consumer.

      FTFY. You must be what, under 25?

    3. Re:Require bio-degradable packaging. by lindavid78778 · · Score: 0

      Wow! I'm really impressed by the way you map out everything. It is very informative and you are obviously very knowledgeable in this field. Thank you for sharing this great post with us. hotmail login account

  19. Fucking tax it or charge a deposit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then use Changing World TechnologiesThermal Depolymerization.

    1. Re:Fucking tax it or charge a deposit. by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I'm for that. Every single thing we make should have a deposit on it that assumes it will end up in the ocean. the amount should be the cost to remove it from the ocean. If you manage to recycle your shit properly, then a refund may be possible. If the cost of cleaning up the ocean goes down, then the deposits should go down.

      But you know how nobody likes paying what amounts to a tax. It'll be a bunch of money that some government entity collects and keeps and doesn't go to any useful purpose. And that organization will grow and depend on that money until it claims it can't survive without increasing the tax further.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  20. Mostly not the peeps by rojash · · Score: 1

    Its the workers at the Waste Areas who throw everything in together...need to get better Managers there

  21. Re: Easy Design Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was never a religious recycler, but I did take the time to sort my garbage into the appropriate bins - at the time, there were three categories.

    One morning I was running late, but I managed to get the bins out to the collection point... only to see the garbage truck pick up each separate bin and empty the contents into the same holding tank on the back. After that, I just didn't bother separating anything.

  22. I think the trouble is by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    Americans really, really don't like being told what to do. It's a cultural thing with us. It's pounded into our skulls by media from the time we grow up. This isn't to say we aren't constantly told what to do or that we don't listen. We do what our bosses say and overwhelmingly identify with hierarchical religions. But that's sort of the problem. In all the major aspects of our lives we have to do what we're told. That means when it comes to stuff like recycling where we're given leeway (since it hasn't really mattered to the ones in charge) we're hyper sensitive to being told what to do.

    I think maybe if we had a little more say in the big stuff (Politics, Religion, Economics) you could get us on board for the small stuff like recycling. But good luck getting our ruling class to give any ground on that...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re: I think the trouble is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ruling class has zero problem with laws requiring the little people to hand-wash, sort, and package their garbage.

    2. Re:I think the trouble is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think maybe if we had a little more say in the big stuff (Politics, Religion, Economics) you could get us on board for the small stuff like recycling.

      Recycling is not a small and unimportant issue, it is one of the biggest issues of our time.

      But good luck getting our ruling class to give any ground on that...

      I gave up on that a long time ago and decided it's probably more likely you guys will eventually snap, go out with torches and pitchforks to storm congress and deal with them like the sans-culottes did the aristocracy in 1789. The billionaires in the US congress are, after all, the effective equivalent of an aristocratic clique that rules your country.

  23. All the carbon is sequestered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bury the plastic and put that carbon back in the ground where it belongs. Don't recycle it. Throw that shit in the ground. Carbon wants to be free so we have to capture it and bury it where even republicans can't find it. What would Jesus do? He would fucking throw plastic away. Or maybe turn it into something else... I don't know. That's another subject.

    1. Re: All the carbon is sequestered by zeiche · · Score: 1

      Burying plastic seems reasonable. Just let it bake down there in the sun for a few billion years, pull it back out and use it again. Solved.

  24. Better idea - should I patent it? by csoh · · Score: 1

    Make the recycle information MACHINE READABLE and put(print) it everywhere!
    This would not solve human laziness, but it would prevent unnecessary information loss after disassembly with minimal cost increase.
    And this would change 'Not recyclable unless I put this fscking mess into gas chromatography - practically not recyclable' into 'Just need more labor, I would adjust the price accordingly' recyclable material.
    This would even help 'willing to recycle but confused(I'm not sure if this jell-o top film is vinyl or plastic?)' consumer, because practically everyone now have universal barcode reading device - smartphone.

  25. here's my 20 centavos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If all you make with blockchain is a paradigms, you're doing it wrong.

  26. Penn & Teller - Bullshit! Recycling Episode by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

    Nobody could do the reducto et absurdum like Penn & Teller, and here's their episode on Recycling.

    https://vimeo.com/216389085

  27. fuck your tragedy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's a fault of the county landfill. The fuckers here (TN) are only open 3 days a week from 8-10am and 4-6pm and they charge you money to dump it. No idea where the hell you live that you can dump your trash in 27s (I'm sure that was just hyperbole). Dumping my trash is what my fucking taxes are for, I'm not paying twice. I already have a personal use for my print paper & cardboard stuff (I make fuel logs) so since there's no identifying info in my trash, I ride my 4 wheeler with trailer down there at 1am when I get off work, and pile it all right at the front gate in the middle of the driveway where the trash panda can't even pull his truck in to open it. I usually leave a note taped to the outside telling them exactly why that's being done. If I have just a bag or 2 then I'll driveby fling it over the fence. They ain't said shit, haven't fixed shit, and don't give me any shit.
    Again, this is all the dump's fault. Just 12 years ago every dump in the county was open all day every day. Many had an attendent during daylight. Changing that was just some arbitrary decision some committee made.

    This is completely besides the actual recycling argument of TFA. If these redneck sumbitches can't even run a dump, there is no way adding recycling to it is gonna go any better. The best we have is metal in this bin, cardboard in this bin, everything else over there, and don't even fucking think about leaving wood or wood products.

    Thier lack of competency does not demand care on my part.

    1. Re:fuck your tragedy by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      That's a fault of the county landfill. The fuckers here (TN) are only open 3 days a week from 8-10am and 4-6pm and they charge you money to dump it. No idea where the hell you live that you can dump your trash in 27s (I'm sure that was just hyperbole). Dumping my trash is what my fucking taxes are for, I'm not paying twice. I already have a personal use for my print paper & cardboard stuff (I make fuel logs) so since there's no identifying info in my trash, I ride my 4 wheeler with trailer down there at 1am when I get off work, and pile it all right at the front gate in the middle of the driveway where the trash panda can't even pull his truck in to open it. I usually leave a note taped to the outside telling them exactly why that's being done. If I have just a bag or 2 then I'll driveby fling it over the fence. They ain't said shit, haven't fixed shit, and don't give me any shit. Again, this is all the dump's fault. Just 12 years ago every dump in the county was open all day every day. Many had an attendent during daylight. Changing that was just some arbitrary decision some committee made.

      This is completely besides the actual recycling argument of TFA. If these redneck sumbitches can't even run a dump, there is no way adding recycling to it is gonna go any better. The best we have is metal in this bin, cardboard in this bin, everything else over there, and don't even fucking think about leaving wood or wood products.

      Thier lack of competency does not demand care on my part.

      I see your old mattress on County Rd E, (for everywhere), since the fucking dump can't abide your schedule.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

  28. I pay extra to be a dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am such an asshole that I actually forego my bottle and can deposits by destroying them myself so no one else gets my "environmental" tax. I have an old industrial shredder I recycled from a closed (I really am pro-recycling) factory. It's probably about a 1950 model. This sucker is about the size of a washing machine and will grind up most metals and glass into powder so everything from my trash cans go straight into it. I don't throw food waste into the trash cause it stanks and attracts bugs, but unnatural wood (pressboard, not brush, etc), paper, everything else does. Every month it gets the oil from my oil changes thrown in there too. It helps grease the mechanisms. Anyway, what the trash truck gets is a can full of small pebbles. Only once have they failed to take my can of pebbles, so I emptied that in the ditch in front of the garabge truck garage, can and all, and took an empty can they had by thier curb.

    Moral of the story is don't fuck with me. I'm retired (at 44 son, go Army!) so I have all the time in the world to troll people for real. You WILL NOT make me do something I don't want to do. Even something as trivial as this. I'll die first and I project that aura to everyone around me. They know I'm serious.

    I'm not anti-recycling. I do it to fuck with the government. There are ways to positively persuade me to change my mind. The single stream portion is non-negotiable though. Large items I understand. I have never even wanted to throw a fridge in there because I can take that to the scrap yard and they give me the money for it. The landfill expects me to give them money to take it. Fuck that. But what I am not doing is taking the time to wash my trash, peel those damned labels off of those damned beer bottles, or any of that other nonsense. I pay my taxes. They should hire folks to do that. It's a jobs program so it's a win-win for both of us. I know taxes will go up, and I've never minded provided you don't ask for my money AND labor. Others pay me for my labor. You, the government, don't get it for free.

  29. Mixed mess by f16c · · Score: 2

    I live in Howard County, MD. Originally the recycle stuff was to be sorted by us in separate bags and picked up that way from the blue recycle containers by the county. A few years ago they went to "All Together Now" which meant all the stuff was mixed up together in the recycle containers. This devalued the recycle stream to the point where the recovery companies that were supposed to be able to sell the recycled items as a product couldn't. Most went out of business. It probably sounded great to the politicians that thought this crap up but it made most recycle streams unusable for most recycle processing. Now the county is drowning in the stuff, most of the processors are out of business and there are repeated stories in the local news about recycle material being diverted to incineration and such just to get rid of it.

    This is what happens when political people become "creative". God help us.

    --
    bob@Osprey:~>
  30. Re: Easy Design Solution by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    I was never a religious recycler, but I did take the time to sort my garbage into the appropriate bins - at the time, there were three categories.

    As a Unitarian, I'm a religious recycler. My town (rural northern AZ) has multiple-stream recycling, but all plastic and metals go into one bin, so an AI would have to classify plastics and separate metallics.

    Down in the desert, the city of Phoenix has single-stream recycling, which is currently sorted manually. An AI would have a tougher time doing this classification, but that would save a huge amount of labor and make the operation truly economic.

    Phoenix has had several instances over the years of murderers literally throwing away their victims, in the municipal collection. So far as I know, no body sent to the landfill has ever been successfully found. One small advantage of Phoenix' manual-classification recycling system is that when a stupid albeit socially conscious thug throws a victim into a recycling bin, the body has always been found the next day.

  31. Too much work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NEAR each house? You mean you don't have your OWN bins? Oh that's a deal breaker for me. I can barely get my bins to the curb on Monday morning and it's like, 4m from my front door. There is no way I'm pushing some carts down to a shared location. I'm lazy. I'm what sanitation engineers have to plan for and there's a lot of us.

    1. Re:Too much work by tonique · · Score: 1

      In another place in the Nordic countries, the bins are common to the housing unit and a bin lorry comes and empties them. No need to push anything yourself!

      And yes, some people sort their rubbish wrong even here.

  32. Re: Easy Design Solution by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Phoenix has had several instances over the years of murderers literally throwing away their victims, in the municipal collection.

    Those could be sorted into a general "compostable" bin.

  33. WALL-E will save us.... by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Not really, game theory and visual recognition are two different things. The first has a specific solution that takes a ton of processing and machine learning can simplify this processing, the second is hard enough that humans can't even figure it out some times, much less train a machine learning program to a high degree of accuracy. Machine learning should reach this level but we have a lot of work (and $s) before it is there.

    Go and Chess are good because we spent time and effort to make it easy. The computer doesn't have to figure out which pieces are on which spaces, because specially built boards or pieces are used - machine vision portion is off the table. Then they have massive databases that are optimally indexed with positions and patterns - search tree is radically pruned. We wouldn't be where we are today in machine learning with gaming AIs unless we spent time figuring out clever ways to simplify the problem. Why not use the same tricks for recycling?

    Want to make it simple to sort EVERYTHING in a recycle bin? Pass a law that says you have to pay an extra 5% in taxes unless you put a QR code on all your packaging indicating its material composition. If you don't want to change your packaging, no problem, you are contributing money to have people hand sort recycling. If you put a QR code on packaging, machines will be able to scan and instantly identify what it is they are holding, and you get to avoid paying an extra tax.

    A lot of effort has already been spent writing image recognition software that can read QR codes. Slap them on everything and let the robot sort em out.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    1. Re:WALL-E will save us.... by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      QR doesn't work if you have soft materials or something that could be damaged. Plastic bags of all kinds can fold up onto itself. Paper is the same and it can also tear. Packaging is usually damaged when the user opens it. Water bottles and cans can be crushed. There are simply too many ways for a label to become unreadable after it's gone through the hands of a consumer.

  34. Oh jesus fuck this guy in the ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps, just perhaps, you don't actually care. I mean, at first I thought you did because in the 2 top positioned threads you have posts advocating that AI sorting was the answer and that's what we should be doing. You even got pissy when someone said your idea was dumb.

    Now you're here playing The Dickhead's Advocate. So which is it? Do you think AI can do the job or not?

  35. Wrong. by Qbertino · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They could easily. In Germany recycling is something of a national pride thing. Everyone recycles and those who don't are broadly considered low lifes and are sometimes even publicly shamed, whether they look like a bum or wear a tie and suit.

    Collecting bottles is a thing for lowest income people and the homeless and it adds a strange sort of social integration. People leave their bottles standing next to the rubbish bins (which are often recycling bins) do that those who need the few cents can pick them up without having to go through the garbage.

    Everyone, and I mean everyone serrates paper from organic from plastic waste. Even the kids learn it in school.

    Truth is, Germany could go from this to a near zero waste society in a matter of months and not even skip a beat because of this broad spanning awareness.

    So recycling is a thing consumers can easily solve, they just need to be aware of it. This is by and large a environmental awareness thing and in Germany lefties/greens and conservatives are pretty much on the same page with this issue.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could easily. In Germany recycling is something of a national pride thing. Everyone recycles and those who don't are broadly considered low lifes and are sometimes even publicly shamed, whether they look like a bum or wear a tie and suit.

      Collecting bottles is a thing for lowest income people and the homeless and it adds a strange sort of social integration. People leave their bottles standing next to the rubbish bins (which are often recycling bins) do that those who need the few cents can pick them up without having to go through the garbage.

      Everyone, and I mean everyone serrates paper from organic from plastic waste. Even the kids learn it in school.

      Truth is, Germany could go from this to a near zero waste society in a matter of months and not even skip a beat because of this broad spanning awareness.

      So recycling is a thing consumers can easily solve, they just need to be aware of it. This is by and large a environmental awareness thing and in Germany lefties/greens and conservatives are pretty much on the same page with this issue.

      To which the respones is:

      Dont' tell us what to do!!! MAGA! MAGA! USA! USA! USA!

      ...and therein lies the problem.

    2. Re:Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a load of tripe. Germans do nothing different any other European nations. Paper recycling in the UK goes back to the 1940s. Metal likewise. Glass was reused, not recycled, which is far better for the environment. Germans didn't get going until much later. The only real difference was them forcing manufacturers to take care of their packaging. Something everyone else ignores.

      But Europe has no plastic problem. It's recycled and has been for decades. The plastic problem currently getting media hype is down to Africa and Asia, where almost all the crap being dumped into the water is from just two rivers.

    3. Re:Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Germany recycling is something of a national pride thing. Everyone recycles and those who don't are broadly considered low lifes and are sometimes even publicly shamed, whether they look like a bum or wear a tie and suit.

      Why don't German SJWs apply the same thing to Global Warming? Instead, the elites gen 1000x* more carbon footprint shame-free while endlessly telling us peons how bad we are.

      (*I made that number up but think it's close enough to make the the point)

    4. Re: Wrong. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

      Because Merkel wants to look good moving out of nuclear. A good thing in general. Only she tries to keep it a secret that this is substituted for coal which is not much better.

      Also German automobile industry usually gets a pass on what ever shit they pull off because JOBS! That might change just now but I'm not holding my breath.

      --
      We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  36. Maybe go back to reusable glass containers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guess not, the mega corps profit is the most important. Just shove the responsibility and work over on the end consumer.

  37. Re: Easy Design Solution by jabuzz · · Score: 2

    No the metal can be automatically separated from the plastic using electromagnetism. Firstly remove all the ferrous metal with a large electromagnet. Secondly remove all the none ferrous metal from the plastic using electromagnetic induction which makes the metal magnetic and can then be removed magnetically.

  38. Recycling is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, so not entirely wrong, we have sort of got suckered into the fallacy, that "We Do Recycling" == "We Are Green". What we REALLY should do more than anything else, is reducing the production of stuff that gets thrown away; then, change production, retail etc and educate people to maximise reuse.

    Businesses save money by being able to give away plastic items that will be thrown away immediately - and in the end, it is society as a whole that has to pay the bill - which means throught taxes (which rich people tend to avoid, too). IOW, businessess are never going to fix this problem voluntarily - to them giving up profit is the ultimate sacrifice - so government has to step in and make it mandatory, possibly even by telling them exactly how. It isn't rocket science either - not many years ago, it was the norm in many countries to reuse all glass bottles and only recycle when they broke.

  39. End Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously. Socialism is killing our planet. Want to fix this? End socialist garbage policies. Stop the "free" pickup and give taxpayers back their money.

    They will be faced with either spending lots on private trash service or becoming extremely good stewards of the environment.

    Oh, and don't go easy on the companies providing trash/landfill service, they also must be good environmental stewards.

    You would be surprised how little waste people make when they pay for every pound. And you'd be surprised how much more excited people are about recycling when the easiest and most desirable recyclable items aren't just free pickup, but pay if you do a good job sorting them.

    1. Re:End Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would be surprised how little waste people make when they pay for every pound.

      Because they totally wouldn't just dump it out back or on the side of the road (or next to the CLOTHING ONLY PLEASE NO MORE WINDOWS, TOILETS, WEIGHT SETS, CAR SEATS, BED FRAMES, BICYCLES, RECLINERS, CRIBS, OR TIRES, JUST CLOTHING donation bins) like people already do with the things that aren't taken in municipal trash collection. It wouldn't be like it was in the '50s with a personal trash dump on every property big enough to hold one. Nope, this time it will be different because we'll give people a dollar for every hour they spend washing and sorting things. Don't spend it all in one place.

  40. Not enough demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have learned just the opposite about why China refuses recycling. Its because so many recycle and so few companies are actually finding good uses for it.
    I know in the US its a real feel good moment for people to sit that recycling out on the curb. Of course on a windy day those cans tip over and pollute the countryside with plastics but that's another story. In the end much of it still ends up being waste that is never recycle because not enough if it is in demand to be used in manufacturing. Let's face it, recycling plastics doesn't really do anything to fix the problem with plastics which is they won't degrade and create more plastic products even with recycled plastics doesn't help that.

  41. Re: Easy Design Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And you fell into the trap of not knowing what you saw. Modern recycling trucks have separate holding tanks but just one chute which direct the contents of your bins into the correct holding tank.

    What you say has been repeated so many times it has become an urban legend by now.

  42. Stupidity by Daralantan · · Score: 1
    Laziness and being unwilling to separate is one thing. The other part feels like some people are just too stupid here to do it as well.

    I work at a big call center and we have a cafeteria downstairs. They used to have labels on the various disposal bins: Trash, Recycling, composte.

    All the bins were filled with the exact same stuff. No effort was made to sort by anyone (except uselessly I usually did).

    Now they literally put big pictures next to all of the bins of what should go into them. They still look exactly the same on the inside though. I see people walk up, looking at the giant pictures the whole way, then just toss everything in whatever bin is closest to them.

  43. They contaminate the environment of its neighbors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They see that the Pacific Ocean is gratis (zero cost economically) and that the infractors can dispose the garbage to this giant trash (the Pacific Ocean).

    So, they are killing passively the fishes, orcs, whales, dolphins, ... for many years and generations that this giant garbage is present.

  44. One plastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop creating single use plastic to tackle contamination. If all plastic is recyclable plastic then it make the use of plastic relatively more acceptable.

  45. Blame manufacturers and recyclers. by sabbede · · Score: 1
    Instead of taking a bottle made of recyclable plastic and wrapping it in a non-recyclable label, just print it on the label because I, like most consumers apparently, won't be doing extra work just to throw something out.

    And what about sorting at the recycling center? Can nobody come up with a process to sort out problematic material at the recycling center?

    Recycling is good. But let's face it, if you add to many steps to what would otherwise be just dropping something into a can, people won't do it. If you expect people to wash their trash, remove any labels, check for markings and carefully separate it instead of just throwing it away, you will be disappointed. That's like expecting people to do the entire Thriller dance before taking a leak - making something incredibly fast and easy more complex and time-consuming than people are generally willing to put up with.

    1. Re:Blame manufacturers and recyclers. by Carrot007 · · Score: 1

      So your excuse is, people are lazy, let them be so?

      How about the ridiculous penaltys for public nudity are removed and put onto people who don't recycle peroperly. At least they are more deserving of it.

      --
      +----------------- | What is the question!
    2. Re:Blame manufacturers and recyclers. by sabbede · · Score: 1

      No, it's this: People are lazy, work with it. If you take a task that takes under a second and add several minutes worth of steps to it, don't expect a lot of compliance. You will be disappointed because you're fighting human nature.

  46. consumer by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 2

    Expecting the consumer to do it is pointless. There's no way you can have a system of the consumer carefully sorting and separating materials, without mistakes or laziness. And expect it to work.

    I'm not sure what the answer is (Wall-E? Robots maybe?) but this ain't it.

    1. Re:consumer by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      Have you ever marveled at the people who line up to stick glass and aluminum containers one by one into automated sorting machines, in order to receive a refund on deposit? Or witnessed fundraisers where students go through the community to collect these materials themselves for recycling?

      It's interesting what people will do once there is a bit of monetary incentive.

    2. Re:consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if the recyclers still need sorters for mistakes, or processers need to watch and divert any contaminated batch, that's still much less labor if most consumers are presorting most of the items.

  47. Biodegradable Plastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Switching to Biodegradable Plastic will be also a good solution to this plastic problem. In addition, Micro-plastic contamination is also increased in the ocean, which can lead to a serious problem. Regards: Kaviraj k Blogger at https://healthy-natural-food-blog.com/

  48. Why landfills? by Headw1nd · · Score: 1

    I would imagine plastic waste would make excellent fuel for incinerators. i doubt the incinerator would care if it's number 2 or number 8, it's all hydrocarbons.

  49. Jobs for Economic Immagrints by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    AI and Robotics take time to make. America has an excess of H1B engineers. Offer them citizenship in exchange for sorting garbage. These are all geniuses, the incentives offered should reduce project turn around time.

  50. Tradeoffs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there data around recycling volume / adoption rates by household when a region switches from multi-stream to single-stream? A reasonable hypothesis is that more people recycle overall when it's easier, even if some folks get it wrong.

  51. Recycling is a scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I live, recycling is mandatory, and the biggest scam I've ever seen, and does nothing for the environment.

    Our single-stream recycling program requires that we clean all glass and plastic containers and completely remove all labels, whether they be plastic labels wrapped around a soda bottle or paper labels fixed to a milk jug with adhesive. There can be no food at all left in plastic or glass containers, which means I have to actually run my recyclable containers through the dish washer or wash them out by hand before I throw them away.

    Paper products cannot be contaminated with food of any kind, so pizza boxes have to be thrown in the trash. But then, there's a $50 fine for throwing away recyclable material, so all the pizza delivery places in town no longer deliver, because people don't want to get fined for throwing away cardboard.

    It's a dumpster fire that doesn't save any energy due to the energy that must be expended cleaning everything, and time wasted removing adhesive labels. I'm sure some public official is getting rich off of it though, since our town laws prohibit disclosure of where the money goes that comes in from selling the recyclable material.

    Typical New York corruption...

  52. The 'wrong bin' argument by BeerMilkshake · · Score: 1

    > "... part of the reason China is now refusing to process American and European plastic is that so many people tossed waste into the wrong bin, resulting in a contaminated mix difficult or impossible to recycle"

    Baloney - it's about their costs based on how they set up their operations. Take plastic bags for example - these CAN be recycled but they have so much trapped air it makes the process less efficient and less profitable. So they throw it in the dump and this is why only something like 10% of all plastic is recycled.

    Suggestion: dump it all into a pyrolytic chamber and boil off the plastic to oil. Leftovers are carbon black plus whatever really was not recyclable.

    I guess I agree with the OP - consumers can't/won't solve this. Bring on the garbage-sorting robots!

  53. Correction by reanjr · · Score: 1

    Plastic recycling is a problem that can't be solved by markets. Environmentalists need to put their money where their mouth is and stop trying to convince people recycling can be profitable. Tax your community to pay for it, or stop requiring them to waste their time with bins.

  54. Re: Easy Design Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Separating plastic from metal is rather easy for a large portion of what's in there. You can use the difference in density and the fact that many metals are magnetic to reduce the amount that requires any intelligence to classify.

    The main issue tends to be separating paper from plastic. And really dirty recyclables from the rest of the waste.

    For me personally, it's gotten to the point where what is and isn't recyclable and what goes where has gotten ridiculously complicated. We can't even assume that just because the plastic has a particular type that it can be recycled.

    I miss the days of multi-stream recycling as it was a lot less confusing. Paper, metal and glass are extremely easy to figure out how to classify. And plastics were usually just a matter of figuring out what type they were and tossing them in the trash if they weren't on the list.

    But now, it's not just that the plastic has to be the right type, it also has to be something that the machinery can deal with. So, you're stuck with a ton of rules about things like that size of lids and some things may or may not be recyclable depending upon whether or not they've been properly cleaned.

    And, to make matters worse, we've got the garbage collectors rooting around in our trash to see that we haven't thrown away things that should be either recycled or composted. Making things even more of a headache.

  55. consumer faced with impossible request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We separate ours but the (newly changed) instructions of what goes into the blue recycling bin are as difficult to understand as ever. 'No packaging materials' is one instruction rendered meaningless by the creativity of the companies making products... If a plastic/paper package can be separated by me into just paper and some thick but transparent plastic...then what? Recycle one? Both? Neither? Just one example of the puzzle the consumer is faced with.

  56. Re:They contaminate the environment of its neighbo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, they are killing passively the fishes, orcs, whales, dolphins, ... for many years and generations that this giant garbage is present.

    Too bad about the fishes, whales, and dolphins, but we can really do without the orcs.

  57. Just burn it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At high enough termperatures that dioxin isn't an issue.
    Of course, you REALLY need to carefully monitor the burn sites to make sure they're not just tossing it on a pile.

  58. Chemical Engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reuse is better than recycling.

    Nevertheless, that which is not reused should be recycled by chemical engineering methods. For example, almost all plastics are soluble in acetone. Ferrous materials are separable with magnetism. Many slurries are separable by centrifugation. Even wood and paper can be changed to mulch chemically for reconversion to paper.

  59. Cool story Bro, back in the real world though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So people knew this was happening, sent the trash anyway, and are now whining that they can't keep doing it and have to deal with their own waste like they should have been doing all along?

    1. Re:Cool story Bro, back in the real world though by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      So people knew this was happening, sent the trash anyway, and are now whining that they can't keep doing it and have to deal with their own waste like they should have been doing all along?

      No one is whining. except perhaps some reporters looking for a catchy headline. - This is a simple case of China declaring they won't take the waste any more, so the rest of the world needs to find a different solution. And they will find a different solution.

      as they say iin the old country - No friggin' big deal.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  60. the law of unintended consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    modified by the rule of expected consequences. who didnt think this would happen?

  61. Only dropping your pants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only thing you are dropping is your pants, so you can take it in the ass from Trump.