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Amazon Wants You To Start a Business To Deliver Its Packages (cnn.com)

If you have $10,000 and want to be your own boss, Amazon has a deal for you. From a report: Starting Thursday, you can apply to start your very own small business, delivering Amazon Prime packages in Amazon branded vans and uniforms. The company wants to help launch small businesses in the United States dedicated to taking its packages on the last step of their journey: from local Amazon sorting centers to the customers who ordered them. It announced the new program on Wednesday at a press event in Seattle.

It's the latest attempt by Amazon to gain greater control of the delivery network at the core of its Prime business, which ships 5 billion packages a year globally. [...] Amazon's new "Delivery Service Partners" and their staff members won't be employed by the tech company. The initial $10,000 costs will go to helping them start an independent business that has to begin with at least five delivery vans and ramp up to 20 vans over an undisclosed period of time.

35 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. Amazon wants you to go broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Amazon wants you to take all the risk to get into a race to the bottom with other hopefuls in a competition to see who can deliver packages for Amazon for the least possible cost.

    Make no mistake about it, Amazon will dole packages out to the lowest bidder, and the only ones who will make money are those who consider their time to be worthless, thus becoming ex-parte slaves like Uber drivers already are.

    1. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by barc0001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Make no mistake about it, Amazon will dole packages out to the lowest bidder

      No they won't. That would require additional analysis and work on Amazon's part. What they will do instead is pay per piece at a set rate, and it's up to the companies to figure out how to make money on that. Much easier for Amazon.

    2. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by hackertourist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. And $10k is just the start. You'll also be leasing 5 Amazon-branded vans. Your Amazon contract will say you can't use those vans to deliver packages for anyone else, so Amazon becomes your only customer, and you're fucked if Amazon takes their business to your competition. 5 vans also means you can't start slowly just with 1 van and yourself as the driver, you'll need to get into personnel management, planning etc. All the joys of company ownership.

    3. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a franchise. Just like many other places you go to.

      If it is profitable for the franchisee then they will go with it, otherwise they will not.

      Uber, was intended to be a part-time job. This is a franchise, it is your own company, you have more options available to you, but being a franchise there are standard you need to meet. Just like a fast food franchise cannot sell their food at a different price, the Amazon Delivery Company cannot charge Amazon too much for shipping.

      What amazon really is doing is mitigating its risk.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, they want to eliminate the "contractor" risk for themselves and pass it on to you! If you are forced to have a minimum of 5 trucks, you directly can't be an employee of Amazon... and your employees are (in theory) unable to sue Amazon for class status. By keeping it small, it also protects Amazon from saying labor abuses are widespread...

      Saying all that... I have no idea how anyone could possibly break even at that business when paid less than $3/package for delivery. Even at $5/package would seem like a challenge to make money and cover all overhead costs. (The drivers themselves were already fsck'd.)

    5. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by quicks0rt · · Score: 2

      Except that Amazon is asking YOU to create potentially unsustainable, low-paying jobs and PAY for the "privilege" of doing so, so that they don't have to claim responsibility when shits hit the fan in their direction.

    6. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      What amazon really is doing is transferring its risk.

      FTFY. "Mitigating" implies that the risk diminishes, which isn't happening here - it's just being moved to effect someone else's pocketbook.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    7. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    8. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      If you can deliver an average of one package per minute, that's $360,000/year.

      Five trucks, five drivers at $50k, five package routes, and centralized accounting and logistics (divide your overhead by five, just about). Your accounting costs will probably be $5,000, and probably double with five trucks (probably won't nearly double tbh but what the hell?). Your per-truck cost adds onto your per-employee cost--fuel, maintenance, etc.

      $250,000 for employees (including yourself if you drive), $10k for bookkeeping and accounting, $200,000 for fuel, call it half a million dollars in expenses. You need to deliver one package every 3.6 minutes for 8 hours each day, 5 days per week. That's about 16 packages per hour.

    9. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by gnick · · Score: 2

      RTFA. the DO allow you to use the vans for other deliveries. sheesh.

      FTA:

      The partner companies can only deliver Amazon packages from the branded vans, but they're allowed to add their own non-Prime vehicles and pick up work for other companies.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    10. Re:Amazon wants you to go broke by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      The statistics I have heard make it sound like they limit each driver to 100-120 packages per day, and you aren't allowing for van costs, which would be on the order of $20k per year. I can see ways of making money in specific areas with unique service plans that don't work well right now with the current system, but once you lose control of your package inventory per truck you don't have control of anything.

  2. Translation : Amazon doesn't want to pay delivery by Bradmont · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This really just comes off as an effort to avoid dealing with employment standards for delivery people...

  3. That's...not really your own business. by Pezbian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you answer to a corporation and not your customers, it's a franchise.

    It's basically Amazon Avon.

    --
    In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
  4. It can't be any worse than what they do now by greenwow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've ordered several things with promised same day delivery in downtown Seattle for work, and none of made it even next day. The worst was a microwave that took seven days. I talked to the Uber driver that delivered it, and he said it had been in the back of his Jeep since the day we ordered it. My boss was so pissed off about people getting angry with him since we didn't have a microwave that we stopped buying from Amazon completely.

    Now, we pay employees mileage to drive to local stores if you can buy locally. We're spending a lot more time and money because of Amazon's terrible local delivery.

    1. Re:It can't be any worse than what they do now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I bought a small convection oven, and that took three days for delivery even though I live about 400 yards from their HQ in South Lake Union. Package was abused and two of the three knobs were broken. I tried to return it, but gave-up after a huge hassle since it was just $60. The Amazon driver also parked on top of flowers and a bush infront of my condo building. I got charged by the COA for that damage.

    2. Re:It can't be any worse than what they do now by sarren1901 · · Score: 2

      Excuse me, paying prime is paying for shipping. The only reason we(wife and I) keep using the service is because we order that much crap that the S&H would be terrible. So if the person doesn't deliver in a reasonable time and this becomes normal for my "free" two day shipping to turn into "free" whenever it gets here shipping, I'll be better off dropping my prime membership and just paying for shipping.

      Amazon doesn't want me dropping prime, especially since I will likely put more effort into my shopping and other retailers sometimes offer truly free two day shipping. As it is, Amazon isn't always the cheapest and sometimes they only get the sale because I've already invested into their ecosystem with prime.

  5. They want? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Personally I want Slashdot to stop writing stupid headlines like some cheap tabloid rag. Especially since we now have two "Amazon wants" stories in a row.

    1. Re:They want? by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      Next up: Amazon wants you to start sending them your paychecks directly

      Don't give them ideas....

      I can see it now. Set up direct deposit with Amazon to have that money credited directly to your account. Use Amazon pantry for grocery/household goods. Pay for Amazon video rentals/purchases. Pay your rent with new Amazon Rents (if you decide to move you can even order/purchase your new home/apartment online!). The only thing better than locking employees into the company town/store is locking in non-employees.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  6. Re:Translation : Amazon doesn't want to pay delive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is also a way for them to erode their dependence on big carriers (UPS, Fedex, USPS, etc.). The bigger you are, the harder it is to be pushed around. These small independent carriers will be at the mercy of Amazon feeding them a stream of business. Oh, and they will also squeeze the hell out of them, like they do their warehouse workers.

  7. So.... by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Informative

    I pay Amazon for the privilege of delivering their packages, under their rules, and I can only use their branded vans (which, no doubt, I have to pay for), and what a great deal, huh? And I'm not even an Amazon employee?

    Okay, here's a slight problem with that.... FedEx Ground already lost that legal battle. They had "contractors" who had to wear FedEx branded uniforms, drive FedEx branded vans (which they had to pay for and were on the hook for all but the simplest maintenance), and could only deliver non-FedEx packages after they finished their deliveries for that day, but (and this is important), according to FedEx, they weren't employees.

    The contractors sued, and won. The judge basically ruled that FedEx was treating them like employees when it benefited FedEx to do so, but for things like health care and 401(k), oh no, they're not employees.

    The judge was not amused.

    So, I don't see this going the way Amazon thinks it will.

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    1. Re:So.... by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Amazon is putting a small twist on it, by making it a minimum 5 man company instead of dealing with 1 man companies.

      It's a smart scheme, but I hope the judges remain unamused.

    2. Re:So.... by JeffOwl · · Score: 2

      FedEx has not ended the use of contractors for delivery. They have changed the way the implement the program. What Amazon is doing here is actually similar to what FedEx is doing. The biggest change is that they are requiring contractors to set up a business with multiple vehicles and drivers.

    3. Re:So.... by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's why Amazon wants you to buy 5 vans (at the minimum) and 5 sets of uniforms instead of just 1 van and 1 set of uniform. In other words, your delivery people don't need to be independent, they can be YOUR employees.

      So if someone gets sued, you get sued, not Amazon. Or if someone goes belly up, you go belly up, not Amazon. In other word, they found a loophole around the FedEx dilemna.

  8. Don't let companies do this by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you're driving around with their branding and they set your hours, they're your boss. The pretence that the drivers are independent contractors is just an end run around labour regulations.

  9. Re:Lost In Translation by strech · · Score: 4, Informative

    Because these are designed to replace their use of UPS and the post office. I live in the suburbs, close enough to a major city that over the years Amazon deliveries have moved from UPS/USPS to primarily Amazon's delivery people (which are currently Uber-style "contractors") over the last few years. Amazon's delivery people are both obviously cheaper for them and fairly terrible at their job.

  10. Not sustainable by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm really beginning to seriously think that this whole culture of 'everything delivered to your door' just isn't sustainable -- and perhaps not healthy, either. People are lazy and fat enough as-is without there being more conveniences to give them more excuses to not get off the couch and move around, and also more excuses to not interact with their fellow human beings. I think many of the social problems we're having these days are exacerbated by people being more and more socially-avoidant, and their fellow human beings becoming more and more an abstraction instead of fully 'three-dimensional' beings.

  11. Just avoiding the employer health mandate by RhettLivingston · · Score: 2

    This is just a creative attempt to avoid providing health benefits or paying the $2-3K per employee for not doing so. In the end, it moves the cost of the health of most of these employees to other tax payers - in effect, providing a huge government subsidy to Amazon in the form of health care for the employees they require.

    As long as the (essentially) franchises keep their employee count under 50, none of them will have to provide insurance. At the same time, Amazon will probably brag at how they are promoting small business development.

    Employers should be required to pay the cost of living for the employees they require to do business and health is a critical part of that. If they don't, their profits are coming from the fact that the government is partially paying for the employees necessary to make those profits.

  12. Terrible business idea by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From TFA:

    The business owners will be able to make as much as $300,000 a year in profit running a full-sized fleet of 40 vans and managing 100 employees, according to Amazon.

    That works out to a profit margin (net income) of just $3000/yr per employee.

    Most businesses have a net income per employee of tens of thousands of dollars ($28k/yr average for the fortune 500), with the best ones pulling in well over $100,000/yr per employee. Most of the companies with a net income per employee below $10,000/yr are huge corporations who gain economic stability from having 100,000+ employees (erratic performance by a single employee does not affect their bottom line much), and are able to leverage economies of scale to turn those meager profit margins into something worth doing.

    If you take up Amazon's offer, you're basically dead meat. Especially since you're in the precarious position of only having a single customer, and have no leverage to negotiate prices - you either accept what Amazon says they'll pay you or they'll bankrupt you overnight. This is basically Amazon outsourcing the delivery business, where they take the lion's share of the profit for themselves, while offloading all the risk (fewer deliveries due to an economic downturn) onto the poor schmucks who took out loans to buy all those delivery vans and have to pay payroll and unemployment regardless of how poorly business goes.

    1. Re:Terrible business idea by Whorhay · · Score: 2

      I was curious as to how much UPS makes per employee and it looks like for 2017 it was around $16,500 per employee at the very best. So the profit margins on package delivery already look pretty slim even when operating at the largest of scales, they have 454,000+ employees. This is definitely looking like a horrible idea for anyone looking to start their own business.

  13. Re:Sure, but... by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course it's not going to be actual profit - if Bezos could turn a 30-fold profit on this he'd be launching the delivery company himself.

  14. Re: Sure, but... by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 4, Funny

    Citation, please.

    --
    "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
  15. Re:mmmmNNooo.... by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 2

    I think you have liberalism confused with libertarianism.

    --
    "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
  16. Pitting the labor force against itself..... by acvh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So instead of relying on existing methods of delivery, UPS, USPS, FedEx, they want to get individuals involved. What that really means is that reasonably well paying jobs with delivery companies decrease in number, while poor schmucks in debt to Amazon increase.

    This is happening throughout the US labor landscape. It's one of the reasons labor unions came into existence way back when. Unfortunately "union" is now treated as an expletive, and the very people that unions can help most are the ones who object to them most strongly.

    But don't forget that UPS drivers are Teamsters, and won't take kindly to a bunch of amateurs taking a bite out of their livelihoods.

  17. Re:mmmmNNooo.... by stephenmac7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No, he's complaining about the shift in usage of the world itself: liberalism. From an article on the matter:

    Liberalism has become one of the most widely misused and abused words in the American political lexicon. It represents, some say, politically “progressive thought,” based on the goal of “social justice” through greater “distributive justice” for all. Others declare it represents moral relativism, political paternalism, governmental license, and just another word for “socialism.” Lost in all of this is that fact that historically “liberalism” originally meant, and continues to mean for some, individual freedom, private property, free enterprise and impartial rule of law under constitutionally limited government.

    --
    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." -- Judge Gideon J. Tucker
  18. Re:Transfering risk, not mitigating by Altus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Aren't most franchises based on areas. Like I cant start a McDonalds franchise across the street from your established store because they don't allow that. Will Amazon provide any protection to people who buy into this franchise like limiting the number of them in a given metro area?

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson