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The Quest To Find Nuclear Fuel On the Moon (businessweekme.com)

Bloomberg Businessweek Middle East reports: India's space program wants to go where no nation has gone before -- to the south side of the moon. And once it gets there, it will study the potential for mining a source of waste-free nuclear energy that could be worth trillions of dollars. The nation's equivalent of NASA will launch a rover in October to explore virgin territory on the lunar surface and analyze crust samples for signs of water and helium-3. That isotope is limited on Earth yet so abundant on the moon that it theoretically could meet global energy demands for 250 years if harnessed....

[A]ccomplishing feats on the cheap has been a hallmark of the agency since the 1960s. The upcoming mission will cost about $125 million -- or less than a quarter of Snap Inc. co-founder Evan Spiegel's compensation last year, the highest for an executive of a publicly traded company, according to the Bloomberg Pay Index... The upcoming launch of Chandrayaan-2 includes an orbiter, lander and a rectangular rover. The six-wheeled vehicle, powered by solar energy, will collect information for at least 14 days and cover an area with a 400-meter radius. The rover will send images to the lander, and the lander will transmit those back to ISRO for analysis. A primary objective, though, is to search for deposits of helium-3. Solar winds have bombarded the moon with immense quantities of helium-3 because it's not protected by a magnetic field like Earth is.

The European Space Agency points out that helium-3 isotope isn't radioactive and "would not produce dangerous waste products." And one former member of the NASA Advisory Council estimates that the moon-derived fuel could generate enough power to meet the world's energy demands for between two at least two centuries.

109 comments

  1. Pointless Quest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But the quest for first posts in Slashdot is always worthwhile.

    Note: Huge Success

  2. Yeah sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Feel free to look for unicorns too. We have no such reactors, and if we had the energy and technology to mine the Moon in that fashion, there wouldn't be an energy crisis in the first place.

    Stupid Space Nuttery.

    1. Re:Yeah sure by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Yep. Because new reactors just appear out of nowhere, they don't need building.

      Nobody's bothered developing a reactor that uses 3He because there isn't much of it here on Earth.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      If we can figure out a way to get lots of it from the moon then maybe somebody might think it's worth trying to develop one.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Yeah sure by dryeo · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's a lot harder to fuse 3He then 2H, which would be the first step that we haven't taken.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    3. Re:Yeah sure by tsa · · Score: 1

      By the time it's finished all the He~3 will be evaporated and we need to go back to the moon.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:Yeah sure by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nobody's bothered developing a reactor that uses 3He because there isn't much of it here on Earth.

      There's the little issue that He3 reactions are orders of magnitude harder to create and contain than the D-T reactions that we still haven't figured out how to harness.

      Not to mention that if you did manage to create super high-tech reactors, then you might as well use boron. It has even less neutron-producing side reactions, and it's plentiful here on earth.

    5. Re:Yeah sure by cjameshuff · · Score: 2

      Nobody's bothered developing a power reactor that uses 3He because we haven't even gotten the much easier D-T reactions usable for such things yet.

      Nobody *will* bother developing a power reactor that uses 3He because p-11B fusion is just as good (better actually, the more feasible 3He reactions involve side reactions that produce neutrons) and doesn't require processing 2 billion+ tons of lunar regolith every year.

    6. Re:Yeah sure by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      You can make 3He here on Earth, though. That's probably more practical than setting up a remote mining operation on the moon (where the 3He isn't exactly plentiful either)

    7. Re:Yeah sure by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It's a lot harder to fuse 3He then 2H, which would be the first step that we haven't taken.

      Indeed. I would like to nominate 3He fusion as "The dumbest idea that is actually taken seriously by anyone."

      1. 3He fusion is WAY harder than D-T fusion, and we aren't even close to achieving that.
      2. 3He is not "plentiful" on the moon. It is extremely rare, just less so than on earth.
      3. There is enough 3He on the moon for 250 years. There is enough Deuterium in the earth's oceans to meet our current needs for several billion years.

    8. Re:Yeah sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "then you might as well use boron"

      that's the goal of Eric Lerner's Focus Fusion project - fusion power without producing neutrons or radioactive waste.
      I've been rooting for them for years but I'll be pleasantly surprised if *any* fusion project is successful in what's left of my lifetime.

      https://lppfusion.com/

    9. Re:Yeah sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you just need to hang on for about 10 more years

    10. Re: Yeah sure by johnsnails · · Score: 1

      How the hell do you know so much about so much?

    11. Re: Yeah sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell do you know so much about so much?

      I read. I learn. I don't have a physics degree but I something about nuclear physics still. Are you capable of educating yourself?

    12. Re:Yeah sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YES! Besides that, the Earth with plenty of energy for all for at least billion years. The oceans will start boiling than we be gone or move the planet. Let's the treasures of the Moon to be use in space! Maybe in a hundred years, we will learn to have He-3 fusion reactors work and use it beyond the orbit of Jupiter where solar power fails.

    13. Re: Yeah sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is bot, scraping info from wikipedia, operated by eye-be-M, surely.

    14. Re:Yeah sure by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Whilst _I_ won't be around to see it, I doubt that fusion will be commercially viable in the lifetimes of the grandchildren of anyone alive today.

      As for the current fission reactor mess, if Nixon hadn't killed MSR research 45 years ago we'd be a lot better off than we are today but it can still be turned around and with the potential looming ecological crisis (global warming/climate change is "best case scenarios" and looking increasingly unlikely, vs anoxic events and food chain collapse) there's likely to be a lot of pressure to make it work.

    15. Re:Yeah sure by cjameshuff · · Score: 1

      It'd probably be more practical to set up D-T fusion helium-3 factories on the moon, for that matter. Not that it'd be a good idea, just not quite as bad of one as strip mining a hundred thousand square kilometers of the lunar surface per year for it.

  3. South side... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i'm more of an upper east side lad myself...

    1. Re: South side... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I b frum West Sieeed fer rizzle

  4. If Wishes Be Horses by mschwanke97402 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think they forgot about a thing or two. For one, after like 50 years, commercial fusion power is still 50 years off. For two, returning mass to the earth going to be cheap. For three, building a mining infrastructure on the moon will be exorbitantly expensive. There are already simpler, cheaper options here on earth.

    1. Re:If Wishes Be Horses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ". For two, returning mass to the earth going to be cheap."

      Huh? I guess you're a schwanker and forgot to proofread?

    2. Re:If Wishes Be Horses by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      And when we do get fusion power, the flat-earth lobby will still think up reasons to be against it until their oil company money runs out. Let's not sit around waiting for fusion.

    3. Re:If Wishes Be Horses by eclectro · · Score: 1

      I'm a bit more optimistic than most on the timeline. Here is a company that wants to get it done by 2030. There are a couple of other interesting and serious Tokamak designs that are actively being built. I also think that with global warming concerns becoming more pressing governments will be looser with the purse strings to accomplish something sooner rather than later.

      As much as finding H3 is concerned, I do think that terrestrial sources will be more viable than any possible moon source.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    4. Re:If Wishes Be Horses by Megane · · Score: 1

      For four, 3He isn't even a first-generation fuel. It could take 10-20 years more after fusion has become useful. It will probably remain a meme at least until the end of the century. Anyone who says this is why we should go back to the moon is a TFM.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    5. Re: If Wishes Be Horses by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 2

      The design youâ(TM)re referring to is a spherical tokamak. We have good data on them from a number of experimental machines like START and MAST. That data tells us it is extremely unlikely the ST will work. Ever.

      The problem is the scaling law. ST reactors work great when you make small ones, so you get all excited and think that if you just make it twice as big youâ(TM)re good to go. Then you make a larger one based on the same tech and itâ(TM)s only a tiny bit better.

      So they think that they can basically scale up the ST40 with superconducting magnets and theyâ(TM)re done. They donâ(TM)t mention the scaling seen in the past, nor outline the problems in the design. That is worrying.

      Read the wiki article on spherical tokamaks. Itâ(TM)s good.

    6. Re:If Wishes Be Horses by mschwanke97402 · · Score: 1

      ". For two, returning mass to the earth going to be cheap."

      Huh? I guess you're a schwanker and forgot to proofread?

      Oooh. Oooowwiiieee. You got me good. Used my name in a funny way and everything!

      In fact, I noticed it right away. I blame an overly affectionate cat demaning my attention as I attempted to type more or less one handed.

    7. Re:If Wishes Be Horses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. We are already enacting the first phase of the plan which will make Sustainable Mankind a reality. We will reduce humanity's numbers to a perfectly sustainable level, and at that point we won't have to worry about shortages in resources, ever. 99% of all humans are about to be made redundant and therefore disposable. We are about to enter the most glorious age in all of mankind's history: the rise of the deserving, and the ultimate defeat and disappearance of the deplorables.

  5. Didn't they make a movie about that? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    If I remember, it didn't turn out well. Loved the roving ATM machine robot.

  6. Praiseworthy, but... by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Quite frankly, the rest of the world would take India and its government a bit more seriously if, instead of making big announcements to the effect that they can pee farther than anybody, they announced the investment in the implementation of a policy to supply with running water, electricity and sanitation to the more than 600 million Indian citizens who lack such basic services.

    1. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, but by your same ethno-centrist token, the US would be taken more seriously if the 40% living at the poverty line were invested in also, social security, health care, education, or any number of other needs rather than Trump spouting off about space like he knows a damn first thing about it on any level or is actually going to to be involved in militarizing it. NOBODY in the world takes that Trump morons seriously at this point. So until he goes to face justice in prison, pipe down.

    2. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      India is trying to help all it's citizens with infrastructure, but it can't do that if it remains poor and dependent on aid money. The space program is profitable, it helps the whole country by bringing in revenue.

      This isn't a pissing competition. It's a demonstration that they can land a rover on the moon and analyze samples for only $125M, which is well within the budget of many corporations and other space agencies that may then decide to buy that service. They need to demonstrate it to build confidence and get insurance for commercial loads.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      Quite frankly, India will do the effort and -- if that happens to be successful -- US, RU and CH will rush to get their [more than] fair part of He3

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    4. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh fuck off. 40% is a bullshit number you made up. And the US federal government spends $4 TRILLION a year, much of which is spent on social services.

      At least the good part is that the insane left is no longer in charge. They lost. Get over it.

    5. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the US Federal government doesn't spend quite that much, in fact, the largest chunk is nondiscretinary mandatory spending, aka returning to people the money the Feds already took.

      Little and less is spent on social welfare because obviously the richest need the mostest.

    6. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      If they want to be profitable, they should focus on cheap LEO/GTO, not on silly moon missions.

    7. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why does Switzerland have a particular desire for 3He?

    8. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before you scold India, how about we fix Flint, and the hundreds of other poisoned water supplies here in the US?

    9. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      India? You mean the country which has a 7% YoY increase in energy production over the past 10 years compared to America's 0.05%? Or Europe's 0.1%? I'm not sure what you expect, that they flick a switch and it all happens over night? Basic services in India have been improving year on year. But I'm not sure how you expect to fund it if a country doesn't invest in sectors that make money, such as technology and agriculture (a big consumer of water).

    10. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      running water oh you mean like in Flint?

    11. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, it's going to be Republican Bob Mueller putting Trump in prison until he dies there a traitor, not anyone on "the left" - so crybabies can cry, but Trump will rot.

      You mean the guy who tried to indict a company that didn't actually exist ?

    12. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by Megol · · Score: 1

      Frankly I'd prefer you keep your (virtual) mouth shut and realize that the real fucking world is multi-tasking. That applies to all other self-righteous assholes that can't even start thinking about things before waving their ignorance for the other idiots to nod their empty heads in agreement.

      The reason there aren't running water, electricity and sanitation for everyone are many and complex like people actively destroying infrastructure, nature actively destroying infrastructure, people choosing to live were it is (near) impossible to provide the things you prioritize and of course (often local) corruption fucking everything.

      But sure, shut down the whole country and force the highly educated out to dig ditches instead of using the technological trickle down effect to improve society as a whole. And as we all know India is a totalitarian state it's easy to do too!

    13. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can wiggle, you can wobble, you can fall down, but you can't defend the traitor Drumpftards from their death in Federal Prison. They are unAmerican cowards who deserve worse.

    14. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they announced the investment in the implementation of a policy to supply with running water, electricity and sanitation to the more than 600 million Indian citizens who lack such basic services.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_India

      Go you, didn't even bother to look up the subject.

    15. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      That's a cheese ingredient.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    16. Re: Praiseworthy, but... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You can crapflood about President Trump on Slashdot, but it doesn't make you even a third-rate troll.

    17. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NOBODY in the world takes that Trump morons seriously at this point.

      Yet, everyone should take Trump morons seriously. They pose a serious danger to the United States as a democracy, and to peace and freedom throughout the world.

    18. Re:Praiseworthy, but... by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "You mean the country which has a 7% YoY increase in energy production over the past 10 years compared to America's 0.05%? "

      It's worth pointing out that just about every historic economy has been driven by access to cheap energy. In the old days it was slaves, water and wind. More recently it was coal, then oil and gas and now we're chasing other major energy sources, (electricity is a transmission medium, not a source)

  7. Not really needed by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1
    We already know where useful stuff is.

    for between two at least two centuries

    Boo, editors, boo.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Not really needed by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      There is a lot of potential energy in thorium, but sitting around waiting for it to be developed is only slightly less nonproductive than sitting around waiting for fusion.

    2. Re:Not really needed by dryeo · · Score: 1

      And how many successful commercial Thorium reactors are currently operating?

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    3. Re:Not really needed by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      For example, CANDU can apparently run on thorium, although low prices of uranium make it much less necessary on Earth.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:Not really needed by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      There are only 2 good reasons to build a nuclear reactor: 1-for medical isotopes, 2-for building nuclear reactors. Thorium reactors are poorly suited both so they don't get built.

    5. Re:Not really needed by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      1: There's a LOT of thorium already waiting to be used. It's an annoying byproduct of rare earth minining, to the tune of somewhere between 20-100,000 tons per year. The USA DOE buried several tens of thousands of tons of the stuff in the Utah desert because they couldn't get rid of it.

      2: Thorium designs already exist, have already been proven in trials and don't suffer from the scaling problems of PWR systems (ie, you don't end up with a massive radioactive steam bomb). Recreating them will take far less time than mastering the basic science of fusion, but there's not much profit in a system where the fuel is liquid and vendors don't hold lock-in for the life of the reactor as they do with PWR/BWR designs (fuel rods are proprietary shapes and not interchangeable between suppliers)

      3: the reason there's no Thorium and MSR research happening in the USA is because it's specifically illegal in the USA. You can thank Richard Milhous Nixon for that. Oak Ridge is researching non-nuclear aspects of molten salts but they can't fire up a reactor again.

    6. Re: Not really needed by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      the reason there's no Thorium and MSR research happening in the USA is because it's specifically illegal in the USA. You can thank Richard Milhous Nixon for that. Oak Ridge is researching non-nuclear aspects of molten salts but they can't fire up a reactor again.

      The rest of your post is composed of overly simplistic and misleading talking points, which I intended to let slide .... but this part here just seems to be a complete lie. I can find zero reference to Nixon banning anything thorium related, nor is it illegal to research thorium in the US. Lastly, there is absolutely nothing preventing Oak Ridge from "firing up a reactor again" especially since their original MSR didn't use thorium fuel in the first place.

      For anyone curious about the ACTUAL benefits and drawbacks of thorium as a fuel, rather than silly one sided talking points, check out the Wikipedia page which has a decent breakdown:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

      Specifically the "possible benefits" and "possible disadvantages" sections are quite informative.

  8. Click bait by rojash · · Score: 0

    Like those other crap stories about exoplanets et al.

  9. Still don't know how to do practical fusion by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

    He3 is great but we still don't know how to make an economically viable fusion reactor. A sufficiently scaled up magnetic confinement fusion machine will work, but its not clear how the costs can ever be competitive. Unlike fission where you basically just pile up fuel and it gets hot, all the current fusion designs require that a substantial portion of the reactor output be redirected into the reactor in some technically complex (eg expensive) system. (neutral beams, plasma jets, millimeter waves etc etc).

    He3 makes things better, but I don't see how it helps enough.

    I would love to see fusion become practical, but I just don't see it moving that way.

    1. Re:Still don't know how to do practical fusion by careysub · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He3 makes things better, but I don't see how it helps enough.

      Really it makes things far worse.

      The only area where it helps is reducing the neutron damage and activation of the inner reactor parts, which are estimated to run only 5-8% of the capital contribution to the cost of electricity. But the reaction itself is ten thousand times harder to do (D/D fusion is only a few hundred times harder). We have good ideas for doing D/T fusion, that should work (at unaffordable cost) in several decades. We have none for He-3/D fusion, at this point it while the reaction is real, the technology is wishing for pink unicorns.

      And then there is the fuel cost. One kilogram of D can be bought today for $3000. To get the equivalent amount of He-3 from the Moon you have to process ~300,000 tons of regolith on the Moon, and ship it back to Earth. Show me any sort of conceptual process that can do this for a penny a ton. Here on Earth currently total ore extraction and processing costs are in the range of $2 to $200 per ton, it is not going to be 100 to 10,000 times cheaper on the Moon, rather we can expect the reverse to be true.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    2. Re:Still don't know how to do practical fusion by cjameshuff · · Score: 2

      And when reactors get to the point where they can make use of aneutronic reactions, there are aneutronic reactions that don't require helium-3. Which do you pick, the most abundant isotope of boron, or the least abundant isotope of helium? Oh, and the easily achievable reactions involving the latter aren't actually fully aneutronic.

      Even if you ignore that and press ahead with helium-3...by the time we get there, we'll have been operating D-T reactors for some time, and keeping stockpiles of tritium, which produces a constant stream of helium-3 as it decays.

    3. Re:Still don't know how to do practical fusion by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      India gets free energy on the moon, the ultimate high ground.
      Looking down at earth with no need to worry about limited energy for any project. Thats winning.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Still don't know how to do practical fusion by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      For the cost of the lunar mining operation you could build a solar power station on earth to run your entire country.

    5. Re:Still don't know how to do practical fusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also ... we will make the moon as a real cheese with a lot of extra holes everywhere (at least the current ones are natural).

      Maybe I could be wrong, but in the case He-3 be useful for something, and the Sun is producing it constantly, will not be better just to put some sort of satellite to capture it before arriving to any other place instead of making holes to extract it?

    6. Re:Still don't know how to do practical fusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then there is the fuel cost. One kilogram of D can be bought today for $3000.

      If anything, you've got to be overstating the cost of deuterium. The retail cost of a 1 kg bottle of D2O (99.9% D) is ~$400, you can check current pricing at Cambridge Isotope Labs or Isotec (Sigma-Aldrich). Presumably if you want many kg, the price would be lower. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that electrolysis and bottling of D2 gas from D2O costs at most a few hundred dollars. And as long as you can separate D2O from bulk water, there's no shortage on earth.

      Having said that, I agree completely with the overall premise that using 3He for fusion is a fairy tale.

  10. Quick Mobilise SpaceForce Donald. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are stealing our helium-3.

  11. Old TV show... by cre1mer · · Score: 1

    This didn't end well in SPACE: 1999.

    1. Re:Old TV show... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOW way to go with those FRESH pop culture references!

      I asked my coworkers and no one has heard of Space:1999. Quite funny how you like to claim no one heard of Slashdot but here you are with your antique references!

    2. Re:Old TV show... by rklrkl · · Score: 1

      And there's me just having bought the 2-season Blu Ray set for a dirt cheap price. Mind you, while season 1 was excellent, season 2 wasn't nearly so good :-(

  12. Trump wont let this happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can we find a way to rage against Trump in this article?

  13. come for the He3, stay for the wensleydale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch out for the sentient vending machines.

  14. the south side of the moon by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Best album of all time.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:the south side of the moon by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      What a dark post.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    2. Re:the south side of the moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I wanna probe you like an animal, I wanna mine you on the south side!"

  15. English, Can the Slashdot Editors Speak it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Solar winds have bombarded the moon with immense quantities of helium-3 because it's not protected by a magnetic field like Earth is."

    "moon-derived fuel could generate enough power to meet the world's energy demands for between two at least two centuries."

    I've seen better English from my seven year old child.

  16. Funding bait by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

    Finding fuel for nuclear fusion is very easy. The difficult part (if possible at all) is actually building something which can generate electricity by relying on that approach. Without forgetting that mining on the Moon is far from easy. If I was the one to be convinced, I would have preferred a much more honest motivation like "we are just feeling like going there".

    --
    Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  17. ATTENTION MOTHERFUCKER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SHUT THE FUCK UP

    1. Re:ATTENTION MOTHERFUCKER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently, some people make creimer experience a living hell because they interfer with creimer's agenda to spam the whole fucking Internet!

      CROFLOL!

    2. Re:ATTENTION MOTHERFUCKER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mispelled amoeba, lol.

  18. On the Dark side of the moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It won't be as hard as they think to find it on the moon. Just head over to the Dark side of the moon and that Nazi base, they'll have lots of spent fuel rods built up in their dump by now.

    1. Re: On the Dark side of the moon by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Best selling. Don't Meddle with reality, though, it's not their best work.

  19. Oil?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the joke goes, "If someone said there was oil on the moon, the United States would be all in" -- So helium-3 is India's version of this?

  20. Elementary economics by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    If one were to pause and think about looking for a mineral on the moon, and the logistics cost, I think this project is truly representative of all H1Bâ(TM)s. But hay, it would be fun to be a part of the lunar exploration team.

  21. An Important Energy Source - For The MOON by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

    I'm certain that He3 will be a critically important energy source for Lunar colonies. Solar will also be important, but (as here on Earth) the Sun is only up for half the time. After 14 "days" of lunar "day", there will be 14 "days" of lunar darkness.

    If we ever figure out how to fuse He3 and generate energy, THEN we can start an economic discussion on the costs and benefits of shipping it down to Earth.

    1. Re:An Important Energy Source - For The MOON by religionofpeas · · Score: 0

      Good plan, except for the fact that a moon colony is a giant useless waste of effort.

    2. Re:An Important Energy Source - For The MOON by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are places near the poles on mountain tops that get full sun all the time but I heard the Chinese are likely to stake their claim first.

    3. Re:An Important Energy Source - For The MOON by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

      Lunar colonies would just store heat in phase transition material. Then in the dark, extract it and generate power. Or just store electricity. Huge vacuum capacitor farms.

      --
      - Tjp

      I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

    4. Re:An Important Energy Source - For The MOON by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      A woman with a baby asked Benjamin Franklin, during the debates on the Constitution, "What good is your new government?" Franklin replied, "Of what use is your new baby?" Wilbur & Orville Wright built a flying machine in 1903. What good was it? In 1993, when DARPA allowed commercial use of the internet, what use was it?

      A permanent lunar base will, for at least 10 years, be totally pointless. After that, we'll FIGURE OUT what it's good for, and we will discover that it is very useful indeed.

  22. The dream is fake. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the Moon, there is not Helium-3 as say many critical people.

  23. This is the moon calling... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your planet have virus.

  24. The Hype Is Fearsome by careysub · · Score: 5, Informative

    Mapping the helium-3 distribution on the Moon is a worthy scientific endeavor - it will tell us much about how the solar wind interacts with the lunar surface.

    But promoting the project for its "nuclear fuel" potential is so out of line with reality that it is deception, pure and simple.

    First there is no prospect of building a helium-3 reactor. We currently cannot build a power-producing fusion reactor using the easiest fuel, deuterium-tritium, even though is reaction rate is ten thousand times faster than He-3/D at plausible temperatures.

    Second we already can accurately forecast that when we can build a fusion reactor that uses that easiest to burn D-T fuel it will not be able to compete with any commercial source of electricity. The capital and operating costs of such a plant place the electricity cost at about ten times what wholesale electricity has been selling at for decades (an inflation adjusted current $30/MWh). This recent paper (accessible through Sci-hub) places the economics of a D-T plant in the best possible light and comes up with electricity costs due to the high capital cost of $175-$312 MWh*. Remember that He-3 fusion is ten thousand times harder, and we now have to mine the fuel on the Moon.

    The only theoretical advantage of He-3 fusion is the lack of neutron emission from the main reaction (side reactions would still produce some). This would greatly reduce the neutron damage that requires periodic replacement of parts in D/T (or D/D) reactor, and greatly reduce the radioactive waste produced from neutron activated components. These are not major contributors to the projected cost of fusion power (the paper above assigns $14/MWh for these combined, 5-8% of the projected costs), so greatly reducing them does little to improve it.

    And long before we can build a working He-3/D reactor, we will be able to build a D/D reactor using cheap, plentiful deuterium, available for a few thousand dollars a kilogram on Earth in effectively unlimited supply. The D/D reaction is "only" a few hundred times harder than D/T.

    *The paper ultimately claims that it would be competitive, when externalities are costed, mostly by assigning very high externality costs to every other form of power, and assumes that all of that will be some day captured in electricity pricing. Its treatment of on-shore wind, and solar PV is especially suspect since it assigns levelized costs per MWh, 40 years in the future, that are several times higher than current, demonstrated costs now. This is a lot of special pleading.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    1. Re:The Hype Is Fearsome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few messages have correctly pointed out the enormous potential of thorium. However, not all nuclear fission reactors are equivalent, only breeder reactors would be sustainable in the long term - especially molten salt reactors operating in the fast spectrum could produce approximately 200 more times energy than the current PWR reactors (1 ton of fuel in such a breeder reactor can replace 200-250 tons of enriched uranium used in a present day PWR). Since MSRs can use uranium as well as thorium (which is substantially more abundant), and since sea water uranium could eventually be used in such extremely efficient reactors, that's enough for hundreds of thousands of years at current rate of consumption. Beyond this, fast spectrum MSRs produce much less waste and can even turn the "waste" of current PWRs into fuel.
      So that's not SciFi or speculation (as fusion reactors still are), that's just a technology that is around the corner - provided humans would start being more rational (no more crazy "alternative facts") and would put enough financial effort into achieving the rather modest technological progress needed to produce advanced MSRs. See e.g. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ese3.59

    2. Re:The Hype Is Fearsome by quanminoan · · Score: 1

      He3 is very useful in low temperature cryogenics and neutron detectors, but I imagine a few kg would saturate these markets...

    3. Re:The Hype Is Fearsome by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "we already can accurately forecast that when we can build a fusion reactor that uses that easiest to burn D-T fuel it will not be able to compete with any commercial source of electricity."

      Remove carbon-emitting sources from the equation and run that competition again. Include anything burning wood in that "carbon emitting" list, because it's likely that we're going to be frantically planting them to generate enough oxygen to actually survive in the face of oceanic oxygen sources going away..

    4. Re:The Hype Is Fearsome by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      I agree with your assessment that it's ludicrous to source fuel from the moon, however large-scale, energy-creating structures simply won't be the future.

      Improvements to PV-capture at the nano level (incidental capture, being the biggest) and cheap fabrication of nano-arrays will make almost any surface energy sink, i.e., clothes, paint, etc. Homes equipped with battery storage can link to other homes, thus creating a mesh. Goodbye utility companies.

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
  25. Moon - the movie by kmahan · · Score: 1

    Mining He3 -- "Moon" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1...

    --
    Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
  26. There is a more important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    question; Fusion power will be practical within 30 years or so (must be true, the have been telling us so for sixty years...)

    A more interesting question is: how can any single human being reasonably claim to create over HALF a BILLION DOLLARS of value per year?
       

  27. An alternative? by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

    Silicon for solar panels, any rare earths needed would be minimal, and the entirety of the lunar surface is pretty much a better clean room for prodding them. Or sterling engines. The take the generated power beam it as microwaves to a station at L4 or L5 (or both) and then to earth. Orbital logistics might make other arrangements possible too. No need to haul material from the moon to the earth. Though a huge lunar catapult would be cool to heave containers to earth orbit...

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

  28. What the fucky fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    between two at least two centuries

    That's...wac

  29. 250 years.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So less than fossil fuel on Earth? That does not seem like a lot for being "nuclear fuel".

  30. Space force by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Iron sky is coming true

  31. The one downside... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It smells like farts!

  32. What could possible go wrong.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't we in enough trouble already, because we sucked dry earth?

    Yea, I know it's just a little sip, it's not like the moon needs all of the moon.

  33. /. Editors Screw Up Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And one former member of the NASA Advisory Council estimates that the moon-derived fuel could generate enough power to meet the world's energy demands for between two at least two centuries.

    The correct quote is:

    That’s still enough to meet the world’s current energy demands for at least two, and possibly as many as five, centuries, Kulcinski said. He estimated helium-3’s value at about $5 billion a ton, meaning 250,000 tons would be worth in the trillions of dollars.

  34. Iron Sky by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    I saw the movie "Iron Sky" last night. Will the Indians build a giant space saucer to attack us with if we allow them to mine the He3?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    1. Re:Iron Sky by Mips+the+Cat · · Score: 1

      IIRC the indians helped the attack to the giant nazi ship.

  35. Literally brilliant... by iq145 · · Score: 1

    You mean the fools don't realize why? Over the past billions of years, moon rock has absorbed enough solar radiation helium-3 that one single Space-shuttle load of just 25 tons would be able to power all the electrical needs of the entire United States for a year! It's the fuel source of the future. So YES, you better believe humans will indeed be back up there collecting it.