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PayPal Told Customer Her Death Breached Its Rules (bbc.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the can't-get-off-the-hook-that-easy dept.

dryriver shares a report from the BBC: PayPal wrote to a woman who had died of cancer saying her death had breached its rules and that it might take legal action as a consequence. The firm has since acknowledged that the letter was "insensitive," apologized to her widower, and begun an inquiry into how it came to be sent.

Lindsay Durdle died on May 31 aged 37. She had been first diagnosed with breast cancer about a year-and-a-half earlier. The disease had later spread to her lungs and brain. PayPal was informed of Mrs Durdle's death three weeks ago by her husband Howard Durdle. He provided the online payments service with copies of her death certificate, her will and his ID, as requested. He has now received a letter addressed in her name, sent to his home in Bucklebury, West Berkshire. It was headlined: "Important: You should read this notice carefully." It said that Mrs Durdle owed the company about 3,200 pounds (~$4,200) and went on to say: "You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit as we have received notice that you are deceased... this breach is not capable of remedy." According to a PayPal staff member, there were three possible explanations for how the letter was sent: a bug, a bad letter template, or human error. PayPal is continuing to work with Mr Durdle and has written off the debt in the meantime.

16 of 241 comments (clear)

  1. Human Error by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bugs and bad letter templates all have the same cause: human error.

    Computers don't make mistakes.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re: Human Error by TimMD909 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Computers have it out for us. They always do exactly what we tell them and not exactly what we want them to do.

    2. Re:Human Error by Xenx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be candid, repayment of outstanding debt is a legal matter. While I do believe this is in poor taste, it doesn't shock me in an official communication about the debt.

    3. Re:Human Error by Nutria · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Easy: there's a mail-merge template with the text "we have received notice that you are [reason_code]". At some point, some non-technical manager said that "deceased" should be one of the values, not thinking things all the way through.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    4. Re:Human Error by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Saying "computers don't make mistakes" is like saying "if we knew everything, we could predict the weather". It's true, but meaningless, because it's predicated on a condition that is impossible to fulfill.

      Consider how many people are involved in running a simple computer program. Start with the team that wrote the program, the team(s) that tested it, the team that maintains it, the team that specced and accepted it, and the team that documented how to fit it into your workflow. The current operator, and the person who trained them, and the person who trained them. The team that specced, wrote, tested, documented, maintained and updated the operating system it runs on, and each of the various utilities and handlers that it depends on. Then the teams that did the same for the underlying silicon architecture, the surrounding network...

      There is no-one alive who even knows who all these people are, let alone is competent to review all their work. Let's assume one of them made an error - maybe an error in programming or testing, but just as likely an error in training ("deceased" should be flagged for special handling), or speccing (there should be a flag that suspends auto-generated letters when some conditions are applied, and that flag must be clearly visible to the person who's maintaining the list of conditions). It may even be an error in integration (this program is tested on Windows 7, but is being run on Windows Server 2012 R2).

  2. Re:Luckily, he's not in Germany ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't believe that is entirely true. You can decline an inheritance if the estate in Germany is indebted.

  3. "Error" my ass... by Desler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, there's a much more plausible fourth explanation: Paypal is run by dicks.

  4. Re: Luckily, he's not in Germany ... by willaien · · Score: 5, Informative

    You must do so in a timely manner, in writing, notarized by a lawyer. It's assumed by default that you accept it if you don't do this.

  5. Re: Luckily, he's not in Germany ... by willaien · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, but, in this case it's inheriting _debt_ by default unless you explicitly opt out.

  6. You can't die... That's ILLEGAL! by Dutchmaan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dying as being a breach of contract would be a TOTAL Terry Gilliam plot!

  7. Re:Come and get it if you like boys.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your subject line is yet another great example of the importance of commas.

  8. Re:regardless of her death she had debt by bobbied · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the wording might be insensitive but notifying her husband about it isn't that unusual, is it?

    Nope, this is just an attempt to collect a debt by PayPal. Poorly worded and untimely given his wife's death was already legally established by the copy of the death certificate he provided, but just SOP for debt collection. Common, even when the person in debt is dead. I got lots of demands for payment when my mother died. I wasn't liable for any of the debt, yet the letters came and got shreded.

    I do think that PayPal was stupid to try this, mainly because of the risk of a bad PR outcome. Receipt of a death certificate should suspend the account and all debt collection activities for any unsecured debt associated with the deceased.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  9. Re:Does anyone here know what condition 15.4(c) sa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would like to know what this is too. Looking up the terms and conditions, there is a 15.4, but no subclause (c):
    15.4 In the event you do not agree to the terms of a release amount, you may close your account unless otherwise prohibited under this Agreement. However, if your account is closed for any reason, we have the right to hold the amount retained in your PayPal account for up to 180 days.
    Can anyone else find more?
    catchpa: mystery :P

  10. Billable termination clause... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That was literally the opening plot of Brazil. Guy gets murdered during a swat-style raid looking for a guy whose name was one typo different, and as a result his family has to pay for his termination costs, despite it being the government's fault.

    That movie is an excellent watch by the way, although it is hard to tell what part of it is taking part in 'reality' and what part of it is in his mind, whether crazed, or after he is broken.

  11. Re:Didn't answer the important question by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Informative

    In the U.S. you are responsible for your spouse's debts when they die.

    Example number 1299006 of why you should not take legal advice from /.

    https://www.consumerfinance.go...

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  12. Re: Luckily, he's not in Germany ... by bursch-X · · Score: 5, Funny

    In Japan mortgage loans comes with a life (actually death) insurance, so if I die before my loan is paid back, my wife gets the house, without paying a penny back. And no, she has no plans of killing me. The house isn't that great.

    --
    There are two rules for success:
    1. Never tell everything you know.