24 People Have Now Been Sentenced In India-Based Phone-Scam Case (arstechnica.com)

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24 People Have Now Been Sentenced In India-Based Phone-Scam Case (arstechnica.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @03:03PM from the long-distance-charges dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: A total of 24 people who pleaded guilty to their involvement in a massive years-long phone scam often involving fake Internal Revenue Service and United States Citizenship and Immigration Services officials have now been given prison sentences from four to 20 years. The indictment was originally filed in October 2016 against 61 people and includes charges of conspiracy to commit identity theft, impersonation of an officer of the United States, wire fraud, and money laundering. If victims didn't pay up, callers threatened arrest, deportation, or heavier fines. There were also related scams involving fake payday loans and bogus U.S. government grants, according to the criminal complaint. The lead defendant was Miteshkumar Patel, who was given 20 years.

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Impressive by 110010001000 · 2018-07-24 15:05 · Score: 1

A whole 24 people? That should solve the problem.
1. Re:Impressive by ShanghaiBill · 2018-07-24 15:33 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  A whole 24 people? That should solve the problem.
  The root of the problem is the American telecom companies that enable these scams by offering spoofing services to criminals. Some big fines on Verizon and AT&T would do way more good than going after some low level scammers in Mumbai.
2. Re:Impressive by mnemotronic · 2018-07-24 16:40 · Score: 1
  
  ... snipsnip... Some big fines on Verizon and AT&T would do way more good than going after some low level scammers in Mumbai.
  No mod points now but if I had 'em you'ld get 'em all.
  
  --
  The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
3. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 17:04 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Twenty four in a population of 1.5 billion, and churning out IT people by the 100-thousands each year. For jobs they resort to working at a "call center." 24 - barely an atom-layer shave off an iceberg sized problem. Let me know when the calls have all stopped. And then you have Karachi, across the border - even more "call centers."
4. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 17:15 · Score: 0
  
  The root of the problem is the American telecom companies
  The root of the problem is a culture where it is considered fine to swindle people as long as you don't get caught, and even then, police and prosecutors can often be bought off.
5. Re: Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 17:59 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it is Trumpâ(TM)s America...
  Sad.
6. Re:Impressive by oldgraybeard · 2018-07-24 18:46 · Score: 1
  
  I would think this is just the low hanging fruit. The shakers and movers have moved on to restart their operations again.
  OOOO Authorities announce we caught these criminals. In order to look like they are making progress. This could just be for show like most everything the authorities do.
  
  Just my 2 cents ;)
7. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 19:34 · Score: 0
  
  They shouldn't have been imprisoned, they should have been publicly executed to send a message to others who may think about doing the same thing. I have zero tolerance or sympathy for these number spoofing, scamming cock suckers who harass, scam and threaten millions of people every day.
8. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 19:37 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  then you both have no clue. The feature that allows this to happen is actually a business feature utilised by millions of legitimate businesses. Unfortunately like many things in this world when it was built into phone systems throughout the world (this is not a US only problem) there wasn't much thought put on the security or potential abuses of the technology. Now it is hard to turn off without screwing over a fuck load of companies with legitimate reasons for using it.
9. Re:Impressive by Opportunist · 2018-07-24 20:13 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  then you both have no clue. The feature that allows this to happen is actually a business feature utilised by millions of legitimate businesses.
  ...to trick their customers into thinking their call center is actually not in Bangalore. Yeah, what a noble cause.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
10. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 20:51 · Score: 0
  
  Great rebuttal retard.
11. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  No, it was designed to present outgoing calls as originating from (for example) the main switchboard / reception phone number rather than the individual extensions (or nothing at all, in the early days).
12. Re:Impressive by Opportunist · 2018-07-24 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  And CreateRemoteThread was originally meant to facilitate writing drivers. Now guess what both inventions are hardly used for (because there are better ways to do that now) and what kind of use they have left.
  Hint: It's not a benign one.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
13. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 21:50 · Score: 0
  
  Well, if you have your (legitimate) call center in India, then you find it useful that caller ID shows up your local support number. That is the legitimate use case.
  The problem is that they can spoof any number - and the telcos can prevent that. A telco knows which numbers are allocated to some business - that business may choose to use any of those as the from-number for their outgoing calls. But it should be technically impossible for them to choose any other number. As in, such a call simply don't go through - no matter how much ill will there is behind it. (And if a business outsources phone stuff to another business, they should need to inform the telco that "this business is now allowed to originate calls from those of our numbers".) This would solve all the fake caller ID problems - domestic and foreign.
  The telcos are currently not preventing such behaviour though - hence they are part of the problem. A law that specify EU-style fines (some percentage of total company turnover) could be very useful. It is technically possible to solve this - so lets do it. Write to your local lawmaker, create interest in this.
14. Re:Impressive by ShanghaiBill · 2018-07-24 21:59 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  No, it was designed to present outgoing calls as originating from (for example) the main switchboard / reception phone number
  Spoofing from one number to another controlled by the same legal entity is reasonable. Allowing criminals to spoof a random phone number that they DO NOT OWN is not.
  The telecoms can shut this activity down very quickly if they are given sufficient financial incentive to do so, like maybe $10M per day in fines until it is fixed.
15. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 22:36 · Score: 0
  
  no to provide them with a LOCAL number to return the call or to hide personal numbers. people get pissed when they have to dial international numbers to return a call and likewise people working from private numbers don't want personal numbers exposed while making calls on behalf of their business.
16. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 22:45 · Score: 0
  
  No, it was designed to present outgoing calls as originating from (for example) the main switchboard / reception phone number
  Spoofing from one number to another controlled by the same legal entity is reasonable. Allowing criminals to spoof a random phone number that they DO NOT OWN is not.
  The telecoms can shut this activity down very quickly if they are given sufficient financial incentive to do so, like maybe $10M per day in fines until it is fixed.
  the problem is the protocols around this have nothing to determine whether it is a legitimately owned number or a criminal spoofing. no they really can't shut this down very quickly as it would require a large overhaul to their systems and millions of customers systems as well as their interactions with foreign systems. Hopefully they have a plan to fix this long term but I doubt there is any easy short term fix without fucking over legitimate businesses.
17. Re:Impressive by thej1nx · 2018-07-25 00:20 · Score: 1
  
  Requires just two steps.
  1. A certificate or some verifiable evidence issued by an authority proving that you are the legitimate owner of the number
  2. Make it legally mandatory for these companies to demand the said proof. Our government is pretty effective at shutting down shops and whatnot operating without proper permissions.
18. Re:Impressive by stealth_finger · 2018-07-25 00:21 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't this why call forwarding is a thing? Call the company number and it forwards you on to 00whereever. Guy in his office calls the switchboard or whatever automated thing they have now and dials the number he wants which calls and connects the lines.
  
  --
  Wanna buy a shirt?
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19. Re:Impressive by stealth_finger · 2018-07-25 00:22 · Score: 1
  
  The root of the problem is the American telecom companies
  The root of the problem is a culture where it is considered fine to swindle people as long as you don't get caught, and even then, police and prosecutors can often be bought off.
  So, just America then?
  
  --
  Wanna buy a shirt?
  https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
20. Re:Impressive by thej1nx · 2018-07-25 00:23 · Score: 0
  
  1.5 billion are not all criminals, thank you very much. But your racism is showing
21. Re:Impressive by terrycarlino · 2018-07-25 00:26 · Score: 2
  
  I don't consider a local company being allowed to spoof the number of their foreign call center a benign use. As a consumer I have a right to know if the company I'm doing business with is outsourcing their support services so I can make an inform decision about whether I want to do business with them.
  It should be outright illegal for an individual or entity to spoof a caller ID number. The choices should be identify yourself or don't. If you choose not to ID then I should have the choice to automatically reject your number, as in it always goes directly to voicemail.
  That solves the problem. Businesses and politicians don't like that solution? So what. I'm paying the phone bill. What gives them the right to intrude on what should be my private communication line to friends and business I want to talk to?
22. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 01:07 · Score: 0
  
  It would be nice to re-engineer things so that ANI/CID would be tougher to spoof. telcos are a closed environment, and if you can get them on board, it could be done. Perhaps at the minimum a "verified" setting, so the user can block all calls from numbers that are not actually validated to be from where they claim to.
  Telcos don't make money from this, so it won't happen in my lifetime.
23. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 01:14 · Score: 0
  
  Now it is hard to turn off without screwing over a fuck load of companies with legitimate reasons for using it.
  That's a bullshit argument, plain and simple.
  See, I don't care that big companies wanted the ability to spoof caller ID ... because they wanted it to allow off-shore call centres in the first place. They basically built the infrastructure to allow this to happen.
  Fuck them and their 'legitimate' reasons, not my fucking problem. They basically for their own profit have made sure that these phone scams are possible ... since > 95% of all incoming calls to my house are fraudulent, I'm afraid my ability to give a fuck about those 'legitimate' reasons is pretty much zero.
  Boo goddamned mother fucking hoo. Cry me a river.
  Allowing caller ID spoofing clearly isn't working for the rest of us, and the corporations who want this can suck my balls. That's their problem, not mine.
24. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 01:37 · Score: 0
  
  How many Nigerians were convicted last year, where fraudulent businesses are one of the few sources of foreign currency?
  [sound of crickets chirping in the fields]
  Makes me wonder which Indian police these criminals forgot to bribe. Fraudulent phone businesses are *big business* in extremely poor areas of the world, around the world.
25. Re:Impressive by ichimunki · 2018-07-25 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  Big fucking deal. The whole issue is going to go the way of broadcast TV in the next decade-- if not sooner. Fucking landline holdover nonsense.
  Unless they can figure out how to spoof numbers in my (mental) contacts list, I never answer my "phone". In fact, my "phone" isn't even really a phone anymore, it's a VOIP device. My other "phone" is an extremely powerful computer that I carry in my pocket that has at least three apps on it for transmitting video and audio to people I want to talk to in real time.
  If homeopathy shit can be sold in stores (especially in the medicine section), then why shouldn't phone scams that rely on called ID spoofing be legal too? Frankly, if you're dumb enough to fall for this shit you ought to have your voting privileges revoked.
  
  --
  I do not have a signature
26. Re:Impressive by gnick · 2018-07-25 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  If homeopathy shit can be sold in stores (especially in the medicine section), then why shouldn't phone scams that rely on called ID spoofing be legal too? Frankly, if you're dumb enough to fall for this shit you ought to have your voting privileges revoked.
  There are rules about what homeopathic shit can claim about their product. These phone scams are lies and threats. Many of the victims are elderly and not "dumb," just not savvy.
  
  --
  He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
27. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 02:17 · Score: 0
  
  Then let them be screwed. Most of them have been screwing us all for years - a little turnabout seems fair.
28. Re:Impressive by houghi · 2018-07-25 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  Living in Belgium. When you use an external callcenter as a company that callcenter can not use your number to be shown.
  the moment you do that it will be fraudelent behaviour. The Telco will be the least of your problems if they go after you.
  A way around this _MIGHT_ be using VoiP. This can easily be done if you are the legal entity.
  That said, living in Europe it is pretty standard that the callcenter is in another country. Remember that countries are the size of states and language barriers do not follow national barriers. So e.g. Dutch and Flanders will be one callcenter. Walony, Zwitserland and France together Germany, Austria and Zwitserland yet another. Ireland and GB might be together as well.
  And French callcenters can also be located in Marocco. And I know of one UK company that had an inhouse callcenter in South Africa. Added bonus for that is there is not much time difference.
  So there is a difference between an inhouse and outhouse callcenter. And inhouse means the same legal entity.
  
  --
  Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
29. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 03:36 · Score: 0
  
  you don't see the waste and inherit inefficiency in what you are recommending? welp lets just take three giant technological steps backward then..
30. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 04:20 · Score: 0
  
  How many Americans have ever been convicted of war crimes when hundreds of thousands have been killed in their name?
  [sound of you slobbering Trump's knob: la la la I can't hear you]
31. Re:Impressive by Wintermute__ · 2018-07-25 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  You have no idea how any of this works.
32. Re:Impressive by jellomizer · 2018-07-25 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  If the Phone company knows where to send the bill, they should be able to tell the caller where the phone number is actually from. For legitimate phone spoofing such as a reminder call from an other company spoofed with your phone number so they can get back to you, can be handled with the phone company. Not from your own technology.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
33. Re: Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 06:30 · Score: 0
  
  Your brain colostomy bag is leaking all over.
34. Re:Impressive by jellomizer · 2018-07-25 06:33 · Score: 2
  
  However such a service could be controled at the Telco level. To insure a call can be tracked back to its source.
  So a legitimate business will contact their telecom and say number xxx-xxx-xxxx will call and we would like to display the number as yyy-yyy-yyyy and zzz-zzz-zzzz
  Having the end user able to spoof on their own end, just doesn't cut it in 2018
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
35. Re: Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 06:41 · Score: 0
  
  You have no idea how any of this works.
  I suppose this isn't the proper forum for a concise, lucid explanation of how it does work. People might mistake you for a knowledgeable source instead of a troll.
36. Re: Impressive by mnemotronic · 2018-07-25 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  the problem is the protocols....
  
  Seems reasonable. I think you mean SS7 as used on the PSTN.
  I will point out that the Internet is changing from IPV4 to Ipv6, a huge change. Not rapidly, but it is changing. The point being that a widespread system can adopt new protocols. It makes the phone carriers seem a bit antediluvian, especially since the system is mostly digital.
  
  --
  The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
37. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  This is not really AT&T's fault. The caller ID is sent with the call from the origination operator without any verification. You can spoof it like you can spoof an IP address.
  Many businesses use this legitimately, for example you may have multiple outgoing lines with different pricing for calling different operators (or no connectivity at all to some networks). You want to use the cheapest route, but still present a number on which you can be called back. This is a totally legitimate way to fill in another number in the Caller ID field than what would be there normally.
  Good providers will ask for proof of ownership of the number before letting you put it, but in this case this would be the Indian operator granting the permission or not caring. AT&T has nothing to do with it anymore. You could block all international calls with a local caller ID, but it is likely legitimate services like Dell Customer Support (the real one, not a scammer claiming to be it) and Sony can't call you anymore.
Rookies by youngone · 2018-07-24 15:16 · Score: 2

They made the mistake of being somewhere where they could be arrested.
The Microsoft people who call my wife are pretty obviously in India.
The investment scammers I have been getting lately are also calling from some third-world country I would think. I read somewhere Indonesia is popular.
If they make enough money I'm sure it's not hard to bribe whoever they need to so they can stay in business.
1. Re:Rookies by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 18:06 · Score: 0
  
  You've been brainwashed by the mainstream media (Communist News Network & MSLSD) to the point that you're a demented clown.
  President Donald Trump is a great American president and businessman with tremendous pro-American accomplishments. He's been very tough on Russia.
  The TRAITORS include Hillary R. Clinton who COLLUDED with Russia, approving the sale of 20% of America's uranium to Russia while the Clinton Foundation received $145 million from companies involved in the Uranium One deal, and Bill Clinton received a $500,000 speaking fee from a bank involved in the Uranium One deal. Mueller was FBI Director at the time and did NOTHING to expose or stop this horrendously treasonous deal. Mueller is also a TRAITOR.
  Other TRAITORS include Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein 0bama and his ridiculous stooge "Lurch," aka John Kerry, who sent $150 billion in unfrozen assets to Iran, a sworn enemy of the United States and #1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world. What did the United States get in return? NOTHING. Iran was allowed to use THEIR OWN nuclear inspectors to inspect their nuclear facilities.
2. Re:Rookies by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 18:53 · Score: 0
  
  THEY EDITED THE OFFICIAL WH VIDEO to omit the answer - AND THE TRANSCRIPT. Both. Where Putin says yes, he pulled for Trump and yes, used agents to do so - and why. Mueller will see you now, FAGGOT TRAITOR
3. Re:Rookies by Narcocide · 2018-07-24 18:55 · Score: 1
  
  But I watched the pre-edited video on live TV and I can confirm you're utterly wrong. Your other two "whataboutisms" are also loaded down with misleading omissions and blatant lies. Also you spelled "Obama" with a "0," something so childish that no citizen clever enough to notice would think is actually clever, so even the implication that you're speaking in the first person as an outraged adult and patriot is a big stupid lie.
4. Re:Rookies by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 21:06 · Score: 0
  
  Ha ha. You fucking idiot.
5. Re:Rookies by Antique+Geekmeister · 2018-07-25 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  I'm afraid the IT recruiters from India have also been out of control recently. Their poorly aimed and sometimes even fraudulent IT job calls have been interfering with normal recruiters, whom I refer to people in my fields who are looking for new work or promotions.
6. Re: Rookies by nitehawk214 · 2018-07-25 05:05 · Score: 1
  
  How do those scams make money? Do they get people desperate for work to pay them for a job opportunity or something?
  
  --
  I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
7. Re: Rookies by Antique+Geekmeister · 2018-07-25 15:43 · Score: 1
  
  Fraud can include work for which their is no intent to interview and hire, but merely collecting American resumes to reject and justify an H1B visa. Fraud can also include bulking out your candidate list, to get more names and more pay, by contacting completely unsuitable candidates. It can also include bait & switch, offering a lucrative job interview, getting the candidate to present resumes and commit to the interview, then offering a _much_ lower salary than was originally discussed, usually with a different title.
  More profound fraud includes looking for personal information to commit identity theft. This is especially common when asking for passport photos and driver's licenses for a security check before a verifiable role is even identified.
good first step by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 15:32 · Score: 0

This is a good first step. Now imprison the execs of the phone companies in the US that allow people in India to spoof US phone numbers to US victims.
1. Re:good first step by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 15:43 · Score: 0
  
  And force them to listen helpful calls from Steve, the customer service agent everyday during their conviction and rate Steve's performance as part of their punishment.
2. Re:good first step by gravewax · 2018-07-24 16:43 · Score: 1
  
  that is not a US specific problem, the standards that allow that spoofing are utilised worldwide, the problem is it actually has legitimate purposes it just needs some additional controls placed over the top to prevent the scumbags from abusing, sadly that is a massive task to retrofit that.
3. Re:good first step by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 17:37 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, no. There are no legitimate purposes.
  Telephony is routed over IP, and they know the call is coming from a foreign IP address. Just drop the call and fine the carrier that forwarded it if it claims to originate from the states.
4. Re:good first step by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 18:24 · Score: 0
  
  Legitimate purposes
  remote call centres to provide a local return numbers that can then be cheaply routed
  remote workers to provide privacy for real numbers while using personal phones for business
  regional satellite workers to provide numbers that won't cost someone returning the call hundreds of dollars
  Where I work we use it for regional satellite workers and for mobility workers that often operate from mobiles or home numbers. some of which can be overseas numbers while they travel.
  I am sure there are many others as well.
5. Re:good first step by stealth_finger · 2018-07-25 00:29 · Score: 2
  
  Legitimate purposes
  remote call centres to provide a local return numbers that can then be cheaply routed
  Lying about where your call centre is isn't a legitimate use.
  
  --
  Wanna buy a shirt?
  https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
6. Re:good first step by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 03:41 · Score: 0
  
  first of all, legitimate purposes. would you say email has no legitimate purposes? if not, then we have solved the spam problem! otherwise this is the exact same issue SMTP has. it was not designed to be secure, now it is in heavy use and changing it risks breaking everything> . you can't run a spam filter on telephone calls because phone calls are two-way communication (just like you can't block spammers by ip address because you may block gmail or office365). SPF made the most meaningful impact on spam, but doesn't stop it. we will never be able to block spam phone calls, get ready to accept that.
  second of all, how does your method propose to work with american VPNs? or hosting companies? have you searched for a vps host lately? millions to chose from and none of them confirm identity before signing up.
7. Re:good first step by gravewax · 2018-07-29 16:01 · Score: 1
  
  Who said anything about lying where the call centre is? we don't hide the fact our call centre is in the US/Singapore/UK/India (depends on time of day night you call as we have follow the sun), but we do like to give residents of other countries local free numbers they can make the call to without having to be concerned about which country they need to dial./
Now if they could only do something... by Nova+Express · 2018-07-24 15:42 · Score: 1

...about "contract employment firms" that call from New Jersey but everyone calling always has a heavy Indian accent...

--
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
1. Re:Now if they could only do something... by sit1963nz · 2018-07-24 15:56 · Score: 1
  
  Or the "Microsoft windows department" scam calls
2. Re:Now if they could only do something... by gravewax · 2018-07-24 16:55 · Score: 1
  
  I enjoy getting the scam calls, they used to annoy me but now I try to take them as a personal challenge for how long I can keep them on the line for wasting their time. I even have an Isolated VM I will give them access to if needed. Man the last one I had from the "windows department" a few weeks ago only lasted about 10 mins but you should have heard the tirade of abuse he yelled at me when he realised he was being led on, probably didn't help his emotional state when I started laughing at the abuse rather than getting offended. Best I have managed is about 20 mins with the "insurance accident department", had them trying to process my payment from the sample credit card test numbers. The Tax department one I gave up on as I didn't have enough information ready at the time to lead them on.
3. Re:Now if they could only do something... by dwywit · 2018-07-24 17:18 · Score: 2
  
  I used to enjoy them, my best was 16 minutes and screaming abuse at the end, but I got 4 in one day, so I blocked all incoming international calls. They dropped off for a while, but now they're spoofing local numbers. Sometimes I answer, sometimes I don't.
  I've got some hindi swear/abuse phrases ready to go (stuff like "you're the result of a toilet cleaner fucking a goat"), but my best was asking the girl from "Windows technical department" what her mother would think of her activities. She went silent for about 10 seconds, then hung up.
  
  --
  They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
4. Re:Now if they could only do something... by gravewax · 2018-07-24 18:14 · Score: 2
  
  try the tactic of asking in a sexy voice "what are you wearing" and other creepy stuff. Some of the stammering replies or total silence can be just as amusing. I am sure they have been abused and insulted so much that most of the insults just wash right over them so I like to try and get them off balance when I am looking to end the call quickly due to being busy. I am surprised they haven't got my number blocked in their systems as I must cost them a lot of time/money.
5. Re:Now if they could only do something... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 18:47 · Score: 0
  
  yeah well we are so sick on them we are dropping our landlines.
  We make so few calls and receive so few that we will just use our cellphones.
6. Re:Now if they could only do something... by gravewax · 2018-07-24 19:26 · Score: 1
  
  My landline is currently free (just a VOIP connection that is only charged when I make a call). I used to leave it off except for when my wife needs to make calls to her mother or friends overseas but of late I just leave it on with some firewall rules to ensure it never rings during sleep time, the only calls EVER received on it for the last 2 years are the scam callers (or political/charity spam). I could turn off the incoming phone calls but at least for the moment I do get some perverse pleasure in screwing with the scammers.
7. Re:Now if they could only do something... by tlhIngan · 2018-07-24 19:47 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I used to enjoy them, my best was 16 minutes and screaming abuse at the end, but I got 4 in one day, so I blocked all incoming international calls. They dropped off for a while, but now they're spoofing local numbers. Sometimes I answer, sometimes I don't.
  I've got some hindi swear/abuse phrases ready to go (stuff like "you're the result of a toilet cleaner fucking a goat"), but my best was asking the girl from "Windows technical department" what her mother would think of her activities. She went silent for about 10 seconds, then hung up.
  Amateur. YouTube has a few people who can get scammers on the phone for at least an hour, approaching 4 and a half. Though to be honest, a good chunk of it is simply dead air - they ask the victim to go out and buy gift cards or something (which is good for a couple of hours of scammers on hold).
  And scammers have an "emergency out" - if they get exposed, they immediately lock the machine and syskey it to ensure it is unbootable. Of course, it all happens in a virtual machine, so restoring the damage is trivial, but it's funny.
  Some YouTube channels:
  Kitboga. He's had scammers insult him, make death threats and all sorts of fun.
  This guy enacts revenge on the scammers by infecting their PC. Most of the scammers are just doing a script, so their PCs are often wide open and infectable, so it's possible to get RATs and such installed on their PC.
  This guy investigates scammers computers. His latest video involves a bank login scam where he manages to install a RAT on the scammer's computer. He watches as a scammer attempts to register for and log into some elderly guy's bank account (luckily, the bank actually sends something to customers when this happens, so the scammer not only had no chance. He also alerted the bank who locked the online account for fraud.
  Yes, it's fun watching scammer's computers and call centers get infected. Perhaps they can call themselves for tech support.
  I admit, I get a lot of those calls. It's amazing how they always use the most robotic of voices. Also, apparently retailers are alert to the scam as well - several times they've been stopped when they see people buying thousands of dollars worth of iTunes or other gift cards. Though, someone was so embarrassed they made up a whole story about being "arrested" and transported and caused the police to issue an alert.
8. Re:Now if they could only do something... by Rogue974 · 2018-07-25 00:48 · Score: 1
  
  My personal best is 46 minutes on the windows dude. I was doing some mind numbing work that I could still do the copy and pasting I needed to do while talking so I wasted very little of my time and a ton of his.
  I started with, hold on, computers are on the other side of the house, put the phone down for 5 minutes.
  He is still there, I ask which computer, I have 8? He says could be any so I say, let me turn them all on. This will take a while, some are really old and take a while to boot....put the phone down for 5 minutes.
  Guy was still there and this is when the fun began!
  Ok, it is booted up, what do you need.
  Every step the guy tells me, do this or do that, I "screw up". This actually took a little attention as I didn't have the error messages memorized. You want me to type in assoc to the command prompt (didn't say command prompt, I was appearing stupid) and I would misspell it and get not recognized error.
  Guy asked what I did, I said asoc, he tries to help, I misspell it over and over. He says, alpha, sam, sam, omega, charlie, and I type out the whole alpha, sam, etc and then talk about how he is doing the military stuff and how I see that in movies and why do they do that, there goes another 10 minutes while he is getting both excited that I am an idiot because I have no computer knowledge and frustrated because I can't type in a simple command!
  Finally I had to go to the bathroom and was doing stuff by memory and he asked me to do something and I could not remember what it would display so I told the guy I was messing with him and not even in front of his computer! I miss a golden opportunity there! I should have asked him to hold on as I had to use the bathroom and then played farting noises into the phone for 5 minutes and killed more of his time!
  It ended in him telling me he had hijacked all my files and I laughed and told him he didn't. He said don't estimate the power of the common man and I told him, you are nothing but a common criminal. That lead to a string of profanities and he finally hung up!
9. Re:Now if they could only do something... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 01:08 · Score: 0
  
  That is not a landline, that's a VOIP line.
10. Re:Now if they could only do something... by swb · 2018-07-25 03:56 · Score: 1
  
  I'm just openly as offensive as I can possibly be. I find mixing race, class and nationality based insults together can really rile them up.
11. Re: Now if they could only do something... by nitehawk214 · 2018-07-25 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  I wish that was an option for me. Unless one thinks the overtones of a male 40yo smoker are sexy. (And I don't even smoke, I just sound like it.)
  
  --
  I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
12. Re: Now if they could only do something... by nitehawk214 · 2018-07-25 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  I may be an atheist, but you are doing god's work, my friend.
  
  --
  I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
13. Re: Now if they could only do something... by gravewax · 2018-07-25 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  The key part is creepy and unsettling, no offence but your voice should be perfect for that :-) as is mine!
14. Re:Now if they could only do something... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 18:19 · Score: 0
  
  In Australia when you are on NBN your phone comes in over fibre. My landline is a VOIP line.
15. Re: Now if they could only do something... by nitehawk214 · 2018-07-26 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks?
  
  --
  I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Apparently a drop in the bucket by AlanObject · 2018-07-24 15:43 · Score: 1

Good news, but I have been getting these "I'm from the IRS" scam calls a lot recently. Just another a few hours ago. So obviously that team isn't part of the 24 in the article.
And it does answer a question I have had for a while -- do these creeps ever get caught and prosecuted? Apparently they can. So why not get all of them. It can't be that hard to trace them.
But apparently it is a profitable venture. There is zero chance that I or anyone reading here would fall for their crude charade but I really have to feel sorry for the people that do apparently fall for it. They must be so isolated and terrified and ignorant that they think their government actually operates that way. Talk about preying on the weak.
1. Re:Apparently a drop in the bucket by Jason+Levine · 2018-07-25 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  I recently held a cyber-security discussion at a local retirement community. We went over a lot of ways to stay safe online (e.g. don't open file attachments, don't download programs from random sites, if the deal sounds too good to be true then it probably is). I also covered phone scams. My co-presenter had happened to get an IRS phone scam recently and still had it on her voicemail so we played it for them. The caller claimed to be from the IRS, said she owed money, and threatened my co-host with arrest if she didn't pay up. My co-host never paid and is still "evading the cops" (translation: living normally because no police are after her). We might have scared the residents a bit with the threats we revealed, but we reiterated that using the Internet was like going through a big city. There's lots of great stuff to see, but you just need to be careful.
  I told my manager that I'd like to do this panel for other retirement communities in the area. Every person I inform about these scams is one less target for these scammers. I know it's just a drop in the bucket, but it felt great to use my knowledge to help someone avoid harm.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
2. Re:Apparently a drop in the bucket by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 02:28 · Score: 0
  
  I develop indie games, and despite not being very popular, I still get a bunch of emails from time to time trying to scam me out of game keys. They claim to be popular Youtube channels, and I typically just trash them. But in the off chance I think it might be legit, I always go to the channel's contact page and send an email to their official contact address instead of replying to the original.
  Perhaps something similar could be done in this situation with IRS/grant scams, so the residents needn't stress about the possibility of mistaking a legit call for a scam.
3. Re:Apparently a drop in the bucket by tlhIngan · 2018-07-25 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  I recently held a cyber-security discussion at a local retirement community. We went over a lot of ways to stay safe online (e.g. don't open file attachments, don't download programs from random sites, if the deal sounds too good to be true then it probably is). I also covered phone scams. My co-presenter had happened to get an IRS phone scam recently and still had it on her voicemail so we played it for them. The caller claimed to be from the IRS, said she owed money, and threatened my co-host with arrest if she didn't pay up. My co-host never paid and is still "evading the cops" (translation: living normally because no police are after her). We might have scared the residents a bit with the threats we revealed, but we reiterated that using the Internet was like going through a big city. There's lots of great stuff to see, but you just need to be careful.
  I'm always curious - the tax scammers never identify who is in trouble. They always say "You're in big trouble with the tax man and the police are after you". Yet, most households in the US consist of multiple taxpayers - most families have both parents that work, and the kids may hold a job (summer or part time) as well.
  Does it never occur to people that the scammers never identify the taxpayer involved? I admit once I nearly got fooled (it was a slick non-computerized speaker), but then I remembered the guy left a message without saying WHO was in trouble. If could be all of us, in which case they would've mentioned all of us, but they just said "you" which was highly ambiguous. Not like the tax man doesn't know how many taxpayers are at an address, and to actually identify which one they want to talk to.
  Of course, I suppose I'm curious now what happens if they say that and I simply reply "I'm not eligible to pay taxes" and then ask who they want to speak to.
  Finally, back on topic - you should mention the real legal process - the taxman always sends you a letter first, and legally, they cannot send the police after you, at least not without you completely knowing about it. As in there would be letters, there would be court service, court dates, there would be court sessions, judgements, etc. It will never be just a phone call. Justice is not swift, either - the process will take years. And even if at the end you're guilty, they generally still don't send the police after you.
  Tax scammers use to only target the immigrant community (who were generally ignorant of how the legal system works, and in many countries outside North America, justice is often swift like that (which is what the scammers relied on). Here justice is slow and methodical and you get plenty of chances to defend yourself.
4. Re:Apparently a drop in the bucket by cyberchondriac · 2018-07-25 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  Good news, but I have been getting these "I'm from the IRS" scam calls a lot recently.
  
  I've gotten those recently too - they leave these hilarious voicemails on my cellphone. The grammar is so god-awfully broken and illogical that I can't imagine anyone believes it to be official. I don't delete the voicemails because I play them for people for a laugh.
  
  --
  
  Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
5. Re:Apparently a drop in the bucket by Jason+Levine · 2018-07-25 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  I think the scammers just rely on people being so frightened by "we're the IRS, pay us or the police are coming for you" that they don't bother thinking critically about the phone call. Also, a lot of these scammers use robocalling programs. It costs them next to nothing to call a hundred people claiming to be the IRS. If only one of those people is fooled and pays them, they have a profit.
  I can't remember offhand whether I went through the entire process that the IRS would take if you really owed them money, but I did specify that they would NEVER just call you out of the blue. If I get the approval to do this more, I would flesh out more of my information.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
First of many, hopefully by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 15:45 · Score: 0

Seriously, these phone scams based in India is a plague.
1. Re:First of many, hopefully by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  So fight it. Go to India as a tourist. Burn down a callcenter - or break the nose of someone working in one. Someone gets a call with Indian accent with a blocked nose. . .
I Enjoy their calls by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 15:54 · Score: 1

It gives me a chance to press all the buttons on my phone!
1. Re:I Enjoy their calls by Opportunist · 2018-07-24 20:20 · Score: 1
  
  You're wasting a perfectly good opportunity to troll a person in real life without any remorse or repercussions.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Probably just a few of them but still progress by ackkamoto · 2018-07-24 16:11 · Score: 0

Good stream https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2...
Do they think about this beforehand? by Peter+P+Peters · 2018-07-24 17:12 · Score: 2

I always wonder with these big scams, do the people creating them know that they're likely to get caught and spend decades in prison, or do they think they'll actually get away with it?
I've come up with tons of get rich quick schemes/scams but the fear of lengthy jail time has always kept me honest. Is the only difference that these people don't think enough bout the risks of such ventures in advance? Or do they get years into it, then one day wake and think oh shit, we might got to jail for this but it's too late?
1. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by mentil · 2018-07-24 18:17 · Score: 2
  
  If you consider that your life options are:
  a) live in prison-like conditions your whole life, or
  b) take a risk you might spend some time in actual prison, while making enough money in the meanwhile to live in conditions substantially better than squalor
  Then option B sure sounds like an upgrade. Bury some of your money so it can't all be reclaimed, and you and your family are set. However, I bet those in prison who buried the large notes that're no longer accepted are kicking themselves for not using smaller bills.
  
  --
  Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
2. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 20:23 · Score: 0
  
  The reality is they are very unlikely to get caught, usually the best we can hope for is they get shut down. They are usually performing the scam across international borders and not targeting people in their own country thereby requiring multiple countries collaborating both for the investigation and for the legal prosecutions.
3. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 23:34 · Score: 0
  
  So I take it you limit your criminal activities to those that don't attract lengthy jail time?.
4. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Jason+Levine · 2018-07-25 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  They likely think they won't get caught so they mentally reduce "risk of arrest" to zero and raise "chance of making money" to 100. An unhealthy lack of morals and basic human empathy help also. I've often said that I could have been very rich had it not been for my pesky morals.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
5. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by houghi · 2018-07-25 01:34 · Score: 1
  
  People who do crimes will never think they will get caught. This is both the person who calls, the person who speeds or the person who robs people with banks.
  That if they have not told themselves that what they do is borderline legal. e.g. all these "Get a free trial" websites.
  Now you can calculate it rationally. There are 24 people who were arrested. What was their role? Where they the agents or the heads or somewhere in between or on the side. Of all the thousands worlkdwide doing these things, how much is 24? Driving to that job will be a lot riskier, even if not in India, but Indiana.
  
  --
  Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
6. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 02:44 · Score: 0
  
  If you consider that your life options are:
  a) live in prison-like conditions your whole life, or
  b) take a risk you might spend some time in actual prison, while making enough money in the meanwhile to live in conditions substantially better than squalor
  Then option B sure sounds like an upgrade. Bury some of your money so it can't all be reclaimed, and you and your family are set. However, I bet those in prison who buried the large notes that're no longer accepted are kicking themselves for not using smaller bills.
  As someone who actually lived in India once, I'd disagree with the statement (a) live in prison-like conditions your whole life. Maybe for the poor farmer in debt, but not for high in demand IT capable person.
7. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · 2018-07-25 03:05 · Score: 1
  
  I always wonder with these big scams, do the people creating them know that they're likely to get caught and spend decades in prison, or do they think they'll actually get away with it?
  I'm pretty sure they think that they can't get caught because they are smarter than those dumb guys who got caught. Also, in some places you may simply be able to bribe your way out of trouble because the government doesn't prosecute people who take bribes. There's probably some thought that once they get rich, they can stop the scamming because they won't need to do it any more, but that target value of what exactly is "rich" continues to move beyond them. And it probably doesn't help when we read stories about that criminal group who keeps robbing banks of millions of dollars and apparently no government anywhere has any idea who these people are because they keep doing it and there are no arrests. So I can see how some smaller time crooks will conclude that if the really big thieves can't be stopped, they can get away with it too.
8. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 03:48 · Score: 0
  
  but not for high in demand IT capable person.
  i have found paying my india developers a living wage that allows them to live a solid middle class life (2br house + associated living expenses) nets me great performance. who knew that paying people a wage that they can survive on makes them want to work harder. i threw profit sharing on top of it and it was a no brainer. they could become the india version of mark cuban if our projects succeed. so they work harder.
  you hear that American companies? take note.
9. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 08:28 · Score: 0
  
  In general, the chance of getting caught for scam calling is not very high as long as you don't call people in the country you operate from. These 24 were just very unlucky...
10. Re:Do they think about this beforehand? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-26 00:16 · Score: 0
  
  How many do you commit? Perhaps three felonies a day?
  Suggested viewing material:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5WOwC5Fs64
  Three Felonies a Day: How Everyday Behavior Affects Everyday People – PO2016
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwsLAqjqnxo
  Harvey Silverglate on 'Three Felonies a Day'
One, ONLY ONE???! You gotta be kidding me?? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 18:04 · Score: 0

I get at least one scammer phone call PER DAY! And the best that you can do is take down ONE FREAKIN' Scammer organization? Oh how I revel in the the entire ineptitude of your complete incompetence.
Re:creimer is a fat, smelly cuck! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 20:31 · Score: 0

He hasn't posted in almost a week. I hope he's OK.
1st Amendment by mi · 2018-07-25 01:51 · Score: 1

Spoofing from one number to another controlled by the same legal entity is reasonable
Such spoofing is already illegal — certainly against ToS, but impossible to enforce.
Just as spoofing of e-mail headers is.
And, frankly, I can't see, how it can be made properly illegal without violating the First Amendment... Except in a few special cases, it is not illegal to lie.

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
1. Re:1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 07:34 · Score: 0
  
  Special cases like, for example, fraud?
Too bad they didn't get death. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 02:28 · Score: 0

I'd sure like to see all of them die, painfully and slowly. Perhaps starving while listening to a phone scam about food.
Re:creimer is a fat, smelly cuck! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 04:01 · Score: 0

Creimer is still posting. He's just not trolling.
That's a... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-25 05:19 · Score: 0

good start.
Should've taken the offer when they had the chance by hawk · 2018-07-25 06:13 · Score: 1

Well, that was foolish.
They should have taken that initial offer on the first call to pay by credit card right then and there to avoid arrest, being experts on that and all . . . :)
hawk
They've Restarted For Me by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-26 05:39 · Score: 0

I got a batch of these calls about a year ago, and then they stopped. For about 8-10 months there was no activity, and I'd read the stories about the arrests in Mumbai. So I thought this problem was under control.
Now in the last 2 months I've started receiving these calls again. I've gotten at least 3 of them, and maybe more.