Slashdot Mirror
The Rogue Tesla Mechanic Resurrecting Salvaged Cars (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: In a scrapyard in Massachusetts, the YouTuber known as Rich Rebuilds runs a pair of jumper cables from a broken down Tesla Model S to a deep cycle battery. "We may hear some clicks," he says, as he prepares to connect the second lead. "We may hear some buzzing. The car may explode. I don't know what's gonna happen." As a self-described "Doctor Frankenstein of Teslas," this is Rich Benoit's modus operandi. On YouTube, he's chronicled his journey to learn how the cars' internal systems work -- and how to repair them after floods, fires and wrecks. In a new Motherboard documentary, Benoit shows us the scrapyards where he scavenges Tesla parts, the basement where he categorizes them, and an auto body shop that lets him use its equipment. He shows us deep under the hood, where he wrestles with the motors, high-powered batteries and tangles of electronics and cables that make Teslas tick. Since his first Tesla restoration -- he's now working on a second -- Rich has become a point-person in the Tesla repair community. He runs a Facebook group for people who want to sell and trade parts and has helped other enthusiasts across the country and as far away as Norway, Germany and South Africa. Tesla told Motherboard that it will inspect salvaged vehicles to assess which repairs are needed, but there would be a fee. The company says customers are free to do whatever they want with their cars, including repair them. However, Massachusetts, because of their "Right to Repair" initiative, is the only state where Tesla owners can register to access repair manuals, service documents, wiring diagrams, and part information. According to Electrek, President Jon McNeil says the automaker is working on opening the program.
for Mass. residents. Re-sell access to the manuals to people all over the world. Fuck Tesla's evil attitude towards DIY owners.
The last link about opening up the manuals is dated 1/13/2017.
What's the deal?
I don't buy new cars. I get used ones and fix them myself. And there are a few Tesla's (X, a couple S's but no 3s yet.) around me and I was hoping to one day pick up one used and repair it myself. I can't afford a new one anyway.
But if I can't access the manuals, I'm SOL.
I guess it's the Chevy Bolt for me.
If this was a computer company that refused to resale parts or provide repair information everyone here would be having a coronary.
No.
Someone how only Tesla gets a pass on this...
No.
Care to explain your position?
No.
Tesla is just following the tech industry model of SaaS. Essentially pay a monthly fee for their "services". Keep your car connected to the Mother corporation.
Who here is saying that Tesla should get a free pass on this?
BTW; there's lots of people who tear down and build up Teslas. There's a great series over on Youtube from Ingineerix (who salvages wrecked / flooded Teslas), who's been going into how every system on the Model 3 works, down to the nitty-gritty details. One of my favourite things recently was the design of the rear wheel/motor assembly. To take it off involves only disconnecting 2 dampers, 2 brake lines, 3 electrical cables and 4 bolts. And you've entirely removed the rear wheels and motor. Unlike S and X, this car was clearly designed with keeping maintenance labour costs down as a high priority.
Another really interesting thing is in his most recent video, where he shows how much thicker the charge port-to-battery wiring is on Model 3 than Model S and Model X. Now, there's always the possibility they switched from copper to alumium or similar, but as it stands, it looks like they've designed it for much higher max charge powers. Which matches well their plans to introduce a new supercharger (V3) later this year. If it's 180kW per-vehicle, as the speculation has been, a five minute charge at low SoCs would allow for an hour of driving at moderately fast highway speeds (about an hour and a half at the sort of speed limits we have here!)
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Why can't I go into a Tesla parts counter in the same fashion as a Mazda parts dealer can get whatever the fuck I want if I'm willing to pay for it?
By which you mean your estranged mother's crushing hugs, we assume, you betch.
When your computer crashes, it doesn't involve a school bus full of children.
Have gnu, will travel.
...I'm not entirely happy with the attempt to force all parts & repairs through a system that requires a current supported Tesla serial number. I do understand it for when you are welding the front half of one car to the rear half of another... but just requesting a nut?
Maybe they do have a point in that if the car fails catastrophically the Tesla brand will be tarnished; in this current environment it will (thanks "shorts", Auto-manufacturers, Big-oil & Unions). Possibly a solution is to debrand or rebrand such cars? ALSET or EDISON? :)
Anyway watching the video and the closed nature does sadden me a bit...
For the hard-core geeks both electrical and mechanical:
Tesla Model 3 - Exploded
This guy has a brilliant series of videos detailing all aspects os Tesla anatomy.
One thing to note about restored Telsa EVs is that they cannot use the supercharger stations. Apparently there is some sort of key held in RAM that indicates it's been tested and meets certification criteria. You can get it re-certified but I've heard it's a costly process because they have to inspect the cabling.
You may think this is somehow unfair but remember how much power is flowing through the cables to recharge all those batteries. It's not a stretch to think that minor damage to a cable could go unnoticed and then set your car and the whole supercharger station on fire.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I've been watching RichRebuilds for a while.
It's amazing that Tesla can remotely "brick" one of their cars against the owner's wishes and render it inoperable until they give the owner a code to get it running (if they choose to do so).
It's also criminal that they will not allow owners to buy repair parts for their cars.
Last, if Tesla goes bankrupt (which, at their current cash burn rate and unprofitably is a good possibility) owners will be left holding the bag with cars that cannot be maintained or repaired.
Tesla reminds me of a pyramid scheme.
If you think $60k is expensive for a new car then you haven't been car shopping lately. Ford managed to dupe people into thinking that is a normal base price for a *small* F-150 truck or SUV. Order a King Ranch and it's over $100,000.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Because any other company would have tons of outrage and bad press. Tesla does it and its literal crickets chirping.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
No.
No.
No,
----
+1. Insightful.
"Decent spec" to me is a base/stripper model. As few frills and as little crap to break as possible.
If you had actually been following the issue, you'd know that third parties would be providing parts and repairs in your doomsday scenario; not exactly a doomsday.
Your tale of woe doesn't line up at all with the part where you point to an authority for information. The information contradicts your story.
Unlike S and X, this car was clearly designed with keeping maintenance labour costs down as a high priority.
Considering how many S and X motor units they have replaced, the fact that they made the 3 one easy to replace doesn't inspire confidence. How old are the oldest 3s out there now? Maybe they are just being careful, if they had to do mass warranty replacements it would destroy them if it was as much work as the S/X.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Yes. I think $60k is expensive for a new car. I just bought one myself. Teslas are for the rich %1, because invariably they have a gas guzzler SUV at their suburban home garage as well as backup. Ridiculous.
Exactly. "And the batteries are mounted on a PCB!". Seriously, who cares?
What are you even talking about? Tesla does not "remotely brick" cars. The concept of a "code" makes no sense in the concept of a Tesla. Where would you even enter a code?
I've been wracking my brain to try to figure out what you might be talking about. The closest I can think is that Tesla considers salvaged cars that haven't gone through recertification "unsupported", and they can't get updates or use the supercharging network.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
That's exactly the point the GP is making A base Ford F-150 costs $28k. But you can option it out to over $100k.
And really, stop the presses: car maker starts out a new model line with only more expensive options availables. Details at 11!
(FYI, both I-Pace and Kona are doing the exact same thing)
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
What packages are you adding on to reach $60k? I'm trying to figure out what you're thinking of.
So, you're starting out by optioning out to the long range battery and the premium interior, since that's first production. But that only adds $9k and $5k, respectively, so $49k. What else are you adding?
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Welcome to Slashdot, where a company designing a vehicle to be easy to repair is spun as a bad thing.
Amazing.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Consider the vapid clown you're replying to.
both electrical and mechanical:
Can't.... resist...
I'm the very model of a modern Tesla technician,
I've information technical, electrical, mechanical,
I know the latest models, and I quote designs historical,
From Model X to Model 3, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
I understand transmissions, both continuous and manual,
I'm bullish on the stock reports and teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about executive option issues.
Relays and solenoids are likely to activate and respond when an electrical device is powered up from an unknown state. This is slashdot. Maybe your comments belong more on yahoo news.
You are breaking the EULA.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Watch Rich's videos. You can get some manuals and TSBs from Tesla, but you can't get the software that diagnoses error codes, which is pretty much critical if there are *any* problems with the motors, or steering system, or breaks, or batteries, or anything controlled by the cars computer which is, pretty much, everything.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Mod this up. Great stuff.
No hits if I put it in quotes, nothing obvious when it's not. Care to try again? The closest I see is a random unsubstantiated post on the net that says that they could do it (but haven't), and has no mention of a "code". Is that what you're talking about?
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Oh please.. technically ANY car with mBrace, OnStar, LexusEnform, etc... can remotely brick their cars. These days any vehicle with any sort of remote assistance/remote start CAN be bricked against the owner's wishes.
So why are you beating up on Tesla. They baked into their vehicles the SAME things that all the manufacturers have. And if anything, they have one main advantage over others. Vehicles with third party "remote" functions can be attacked via the third party so any issues with that can be laid at their feet, and not say Ford or Chevy. So security (from Ford's perspective) is less of a concern because they don't carry the liability. Tesla HAS to keep the security high because any issues are THEIR fault and not a 3rd party.
Autopilot is another $5K, right? I suppose you think you can run into a fire truck without it, but it will handle all the messy details for you. and it demonstrably works.
That gets you to $54K.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
That's not even remotely what you described. It's what I described before when I wrote:
That is in no way "bricking the battery" and "requiring a code"
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Okay, so keep on going to get up to $60k. We're already comparing (what kind of car, exactly?), to a 5,1s 310-mile 0-60 electric sports sedan with luxury package (all-glass roof, auto-folding heated side mirrors, about 20 other things) that can steer and park itself. But you still need to add $6k more. What else are you adding, and what exactly are we comparing this to?
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Yes, please do check out my posts on the subject.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
You are comparing Apples and Teslas. There is much greater danger with DIY activities involving potential Automated Death Machines.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Considering how many S and X motor units they have replaced, the fact that they made the 3 one easy to replace doesn't inspire confidence. How old are the oldest 3s out there now? Maybe they are just being careful, if they had to do mass warranty replacements it would destroy them if it was as much work as the S/X.
The real need is actually much more acute. When a car is manufactured, the vehicle moves through the assembly process having parts installed. The number of steps in this process determines how long the assembly line needs to be. Just like a processor pipeline, when everything goes right, it doesn't matter how long the pipeline/assembly line is, you will still finish cars / instructions at the rate at which the slowest step can be performed.
If something breaks down in the pipeline/ assembly line somewhere, then the length of the line determines the penalty.
What tesla has done by having the entire axle assembly removable is to parallelize the assembly process so that a breakdown in the axle sub-assembly line doesn't impact the overall assembly line progress. Its a smart bit of engineering, and one of the many ways in which they are making cars that cost less to build while having better specs and better overall quality. The shorter the pipeline, the less defects have to be tolerated in order to make production rates.
How's that for a car analogy!
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
Had no clue that a Ford F-150 is a "new model". Thanks for letting me know.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
The people who are screaming about Tesla not opening up the repair info to the masses should also realize that almost none of their vehicles sold, to date, are old enough to be completely out of warranty. The Model S wasn't a thing you could buy until 2012, and they all got an 8 year, unlimited mileage warranty on their powertrains.
When you couple that with the fact that Teslas were never mass produced in the quantities the big-name auto makers produce? You start to realize that the number of Teslas out there in scrap yards from getting totaled in accidents or written off from flood damage are FAR too few to support the business of local garages or other repair shops who might want to specialize in working on them.
As a used Model S owner myself, I've done a lot of reading and research on the cars, because I wanted to know what I might be up against in coming years. The biggest issue facing Tesla owners today is an overall shortage of parts. Even if you have an authorized Tesla body shop repairing your car from a fender-bender, it's quite common they can't obtain a body panel or other trim part you need for 2-3 months. That's one of the challenges the company is still trying to overcome. (Again, they're nowhere near the size of GM or Ford or Toyota ... and they didn't really have the money to stock large quantities of spare parts in warehouses. I'm sure they started out just making spare parts to order, as they had the need. And now they have enough cars on the roads so that's not workable, but their factories were doing all they could just to meet demand for the new Model 3 vehicle orders.)
Personally? I think there's a great money-making opportunity for independent shops who can stock specific parts that are known to fail somewhat regularly, and can do those specific repairs. Great example? Model S auto-retracting/presenting door handles. These are pretty complex components and had a couple of design flaws. (Tesla used a cast metal gear part that tends to develop a stress fracture over time and break into pieces. They also used regular copper wire where flexible silicone wire should have been substituted, so over hundreds of door handle cycles, the wire flexing back and forth snaps it.) Both of these issues have been addressed, at least to a large extent, with a newer handle revision. But my understanding is, Tesla didn't do that until 2017 and there's kind of a run on these -- since service centers will only replace an older revision broken handle with the latest revision. Clearly, this is a place where independent shops could re-work a broken, old revision handle and make it "better than new", for cheaper than Tesla's repair cost. (Tesla wants around $700+ per door handle for an out of warranty repair.)
Another example is the small 12 volt battery in a Model S. This is known to fail on a lot of people, and will leave you stranded if it does. (Luckily, you *usually* get some kind of warning on the dash that it's having issues for at least a little while before it conks out.) This one, again, was usually just a free warranty swap so far. But as these cars age out of factory coverage, it'll become a problem. There's a company on the net called BattMobile who sells an improved replacement battery with the necessary, proprietary battery connector points already on it. But it would be great if more shops knew how to swap one of these and could do it for people inexpensively. On a dual motor Model S, it's not THAT tough as job, but it's kind of a bear to get to it on the regular, single motor vehicles.
The current F150 came out in 2015 - say year the Model 3 was announced. So about as new as the Model 3. Too bad Tesla can't design nor build a car in decent volume or decent speed...
And can you buy a $35,000 (let alone a $28,000) Tesla today? Can you? If not - STFU, shill....
You mean that bus full of children leeching my WiFi? Those kids get quite irate when the WiFi goes down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
That's not what the word "bricks" means. And no, there is no "factory code". The whole concept of "codes" has no meaning in the context of Teslas. What it requires is recertification if you want to use supercharging. To make sure that your someone-else-pieced-it-together-car doesn't fry their superchargers and potentially start a fire. For really bloody obvious reasons.
You can still charge just fine on non-Tesla chargers, because hey, no risk to their hardware.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Model 3 went into production in mid 2017, not 2015. That's two years difference. And the 13th generation Ford F-150 was mostly the same vehicle platform as the 12th generation. They replaced the body panels with alumium (the new production systems took years to develop) and they switched out a couple engine options (but they weren't newly developed engines). Most of the rest of the vehicle, including the chassis, was carried over from the 12th generation.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Care to actually respond to the post you hit the reply button on?
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Most automotive lines do this, with the drive train (engine and transaxle for front-wheel drive) installed in one shot or maybe two (transmission/engine as one step, rear-end as another for rear-wheel and four wheel drive vehicles). Just like wheel/tire assemblies are prepped off-line. Nothing really unique here...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Sometimes I suspect the main reason more software isn't open to the public is the authors are too embarrassed to show it.
If only Tesla would do the right thing and let you get it repaired where you want like all other manufacturers. But I guess vendor lock-in is a good thing?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
and laws will force there hand that software must be put to 3rd party repair shops and that can't black list people for useing non dealer parts / non dealer shops.
Rei bought in to TSLA at about $260. They spiked to $371 but he didn't sell then. Today they closed at $297. JP Morgan say $180 by the end of the year.
What's really going to blow your mind is that it's usually that easy to remove the rear subframe from any car. They don't normally have an electric motor there, and if they are in a FR configuration you will have to disconnect the driveshaft, but that typically requires just four to six bolts. If that wasn't the case on their earlier models, it's a sign that they didn't engineer them very intelligently.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Maybe he means this incident considering we are talking about Rich Rebuilds. There are many reports of Tesla being dicks to people when they find out the vehicle is salvaged, whether or not this attitude is approved by management.
I will agree that the first line doesn't work. The rhyme is wrong too. But the rest seems to fit to me. Having listened to a few versions online while composing this, there are plenty of such mispronunciations in the song itself. I kinda find it painful actually, and I may have cut some syllables out of the last few lines because I hate that method of forcing words to fit.
I'd love to see a competing version in a reply...
can you link to a reputable site that can prove that can happen? (not forum or random troll posts)
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
you are out of date on production figures, they are upto 7000 per week. Ford has taken decades to get where it is, so you'd expect it to be able to produce more but then again, comparing a 100+ year old company to a startup is a stupid comparison but if thats all you've got, keep going......
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
they prove he knows a heck a lot more than you do and shows you up to be an ignorant troll who is woefully out of date. Been shorting Tesla stock? Ouch..
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
No, the battery is covered by a standard 8 year warranty but the rest of the car only has 4. A lot of people have been buying extended warranties because the cost of repairs is astronomical.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I don't buy it. If the Tesla chargers are at risk then the 50/100/175kW third party changers are going to be too.
The charging system already has plenty of safety tech built in to it. Tesla are just being dicks.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
How exactly can you call a company that has been on the market for 15 years "a startup" with a straight face?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
If the Tesla chargers are at risk then the 50/100/175kW third party changers are going to be too.
Yes indeed for the 50 kW AC chargers.
(no for the higher charger, those are DC, and Tesla uses a different connection. Normal DC uses Mennekes connector (for ground and data) plus 2 exra pins for DC. Tesla's proprietary connection re-use pins of the Mennekes to carry DC. You can't fry a 175kW by connecting it to a Frankentesla, because you can't even connect it to begin with. Look up "Type 2" in Wikipedia for the details).
(Though maybe the situation is different in the US. Are there converter plugs between whatever shit Tesla uses there and whatever you use for 175kW DC on your side of the ocean ?)
Now to go back to your discussion. Yes, you could just as likely fry a 50 kW AC charger by connecting it to a Frankentesla as connecting a supercharger.
But the thing is, the Supercharger network belongs to Tesla, so they would certainly add a feature to make sure that they only allow whichever car they want on it and refuse other cars (cars whose owner hadn't paid for the Supercharger network access now that this is a paying option. Cars who have been rebuild and that Tesla hadn't controlled and certified to a point were they are comfortable of them being plugged. Etc.)
It's their electrical plug, it's their call.
Meanwhile, those 50kW AC chargers don't belong to Tesla. And up until whomever they belong to, tend to only be fussy and make checks and controls about payments (you need to wave a credit card or a membership cards on those charger which aren't 100% free-as-in-beer), but rely on all the security that already exist in current charging tech regarding safety.
Now, I am ready to bet that lots of jurisdiction have already/are going to setup precise criteria about passing inspection for a rebuilt *electric* car, just like there has always been criteria for rebuilt ICE cars. So chances are, in the near future, in lots of country, if the Frankentesla was allowed on the road and managed to drive all the way to your charging station, risks of it exploding should be rather low, given the safety features of charging tech.
(Disclaimer: All the various electric vehicles I've been driving have always been AC charging only. I haven't driven a DC-charging car yet, be it Tesla or any other brand. So I'm just speculating, it's not first hand experience)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Why can't I go into a Tesla parts counter in the same fashion as a Mazda parts dealer can get whatever the fuck I want if I'm willing to pay for it?
Because virtually all the Model 3 currently on the road are more recent that their warranty period.
Thus to an end users, thinking about repairs seems free-as-in-beer.
It would be hard for any business to compete with a percieved price of "zero".
Wait a few years, for the market to start having lots of old second-hand Teslas that aren't warranty covered and needs repairs/maintenance/upgrades here and there.
Then being a "Tesla parts" reseller would be much more interesting business.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Can you assembly these disassembled pieces?
In some jurisdiction : No, you can't.
If you want to put your re-assembled franken on a street, it has to pass safety inspection.
Only then yes, if if passes inspection, you can drive your Frankencar on streets.
That includes electric cars too.
Can you mod or improve this car for competition?
In these jurisdiction, competition tracks aren't considered public roads, they are considered private grounds.
You aren't required to pass safety inspection by law.
(But the track owner might have other requirements).
But as long as carry your Frankencar on a trailer, you're free to do whatever pleases you and the track's owner, including up to watching a nice firework if any of your mods goes wrong.
(this no matter what powers you car, be it gas, electricity or even crazier tech. As long as your car doesn't make the IAEA nervous, that is).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I think this situation could be handled by a compromise designed in from the start.
For example, the charging, battery and software is offlimits...
but the rest of the car is open and documented.
The analogy being Open API's
A blog I run for the wealth
I don't buy it. If the Tesla chargers are at risk then the 50/100/175kW third party changers are going to be too.
LOL
First, show me a 100/175kW third-party charging network in the wild. No, I don't care about somebody's 1- or 2-location little proof-of-concept charging station.
Second, Tesla doesn't own those third party chargers. So Tesla's not interested is protecting them.
The charging system already has plenty of safety tech built in to it. Tesla are just being dicks.
The superchargers include a direct low-resistance connection between the charger and the car's battery. If the battery has a short of some sort, the "safety tech" that communicates between the car and the charging station won't know about it. Tesla has decided that they don't want to risk destroying one of their charging stations when a car has been reported as being "totaled". I don't blame them.
They really should provide a way to get a salvaged car "recertified" though. Maybe they will at some point - it's still "early days" in Tesla's lifetime.
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
The worst I've seen from Tesla is that they will disable supercharging access for salvage cars. Solution is unappealing... pay them $10,000 to go thru the car with a fine toothed comb and make sure it won't catch fire while supercharging. Can you image the bad press from a car catching fire? I have never heard of a tesla being out and out bricked.... and I own one.
When your computer crashes, it doesn't involve a school bus full of children.
Mine does... I like to live dangerously.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
When I bought my used Tesla, I called them with the VIN and they told me it wasn't salvaged. I was very concerned about getting locked out of the supercharger network. They would /not/ tell me anything else about the car until I'd sent them a copy of the title or registration to prove I was the owner. Aggravating, but not earth shattering. There were two recalls and upon my first visit to a service center they told me and fixed them on the spot.
It's too bad moderators don't have to know anything to get mod points.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That only works if two preconditions have been met: 1) a sufficient density of vehicles to keep the shop occupied. And 2), a sufficient supply of spare parts (depth, breadth, and speed of replenishment). The latter in particular is a problem as Tesla is struggling to meet the existing market.
Presuming it's broken in a fashion that lends itself to rework. (A gear that "broken in pieces" cannot be reworked, it must be replaced.) Even so, the labor of disassembly, replacing the individual failed part, and reassembly isn't going to be cheap. Nor is obtaining the individual replacement parts. (Especially if they have to be manufactured rather than ordered.)
I stumbled across his channel earlier this year. He raises a lot of good points - although he may not verbalize them in the videos, he stumbles across lots of issues that are bigger, he'll have a problem "man Tesla makes this difficult" that really needs to be thought through. It seems bigger than right-to-repair. Watching his experiences is terrific though, as it provides insights into how complicated this can be.
Somebody wrote to him with a problem which raised an issue - the guy had purchased a used Tesla. The issue raised was: sure, maybe you need to pay for something, life isn't free. Take super charging for example - seems like an add-on (i'm not a telsa expert) that the first owner can purchase. But it does not transfer to the second owner nor can another company offer it. When the car has been sold to a second owner, or resurrected from the scrap yard... Tesla won't allow super-charging via (what is believed to be) a firmware block. Only "certified" cars can have this...and only "certified" cars can have firmware updates (which includes safety updates like auto-pilot). But the cost to get a car recertified was (in a few cases) many many (many!!) thousands of dollars. So you're blocked from super-charging and presumably from auto-pilot updates too. They are connected in Tesla's mind. When you buy a used-Tesla you should mentally tack on $5-10k for the recertification & required repairs. I understand that the electricity may not be free to the second owner, but Supercharging is also the rate of charge.
I can understand that the battery might require inspection to verify that it won't catch fire when under charging load. And there might be a fee for this inspection. But the price tag was a bit out of this world. Which then asks - can't somebody else perform this? And then how would they offer charging to a secondary-certified car? Tesla is not interested in this - at least based upon their pricing. It's like a cell phone. Battery doesn't work? Toss it in the recycle bin and buy a new car.
Might I create my own charging network? And offer charging to Tesla's? But I can't offer "super-charging" capacity to these cars because Tesla blocked it in the car itself.... even if "I" created a recertification program for my network.
Of course - my first auto-pilot update would be to offer bigger pillows to strap onto the front bumper.
Jon McNeill (who was, at the time, president of North American sales/service at Tesla) told me in an email around early 2017 that Tesla was going to fix this stuff around mid-year 2017. This came and went, and he stopped responding to my emails, and then around the start of this year he left Tesla for good. Still no movement on "open" anything from Tesla.
What is the problem? Tesla actively blocks the sale of any parts whatsoever to any salvage or grey market (unsupported) cars, and will not provide any service information to anyone, even in "supported" cars, except in a few states where it's legally mandated. In addition they will not provide "restricted" parts to anyone, which includes all of the drivetrain/battery/HV stuff. They also do not provide the necessary software and access to the car's internal systems (you are locked out of your own car). They don't even give you this, even in states where it's legally mandated! Tesla is the "Apple" of car makers, and actually they are worse in some ways!
I am the guy who has been posting all the Model 3 teardown videos on YouTube, and I also help people all over the world with their unsupported cars. I have helped about 400 cars get back on the road since I started in 2015. (Including Rich Benoit's cars who is the subject of the above article!)
It's almost impossible to get a Tesla going again without internal diagnostic and software access, as all parts must have matching software before the car will drive. Also, many modules are VIN-married. I provide this service, because Tesla refuses. Even in states, such as Rich's home state; MA, where this is right-to-repair legislation in place, Tesla is technically in violation, because while they will give you a service manual, they do not give you diagnostic access or software to work on the cars.
I actually support Tesla and believe in their mission and want them to succeed, but this policy is toxic, and if not reversed soon is going to make the cars very difficult to insure, thus threatening their mission.
Here is my email to Jon:
Jan 18, 2017
Hi Jon,
My name is Phil, and I'm the one who originally exposed the launch limit counter issue. I want to personally thank you (and Tesla) for non only resolving this issue, but going above and beyond by agreeing to cover accelerated wear under warranty. This is absolutely amazing!
My biggest remaining complaint on Tesla's policies is refusing to sell replacement parts to owners of salvage cars. In addition, refusing to release simple service information such as service manuals, wiring diagrams, etc to all owners so they can service their own cars, or allow independent service shops to work on them.
I now support about 100 salvage and gray market cars around the world that Tesla has abandoned, and I provide the owners with diagnostic support and a remote access application. They have no other recourse and have to resort to lying to service centers to obtain parts in many cases.
Tesla's policy of blacklisting salvage cars makes the prices drop in the salvage market (good for people like me that buy them), but extremely bad for the insurance companies as they lose a massive amount of money when these cars are totaled. This is resulting in higher insurance premiums for Tesla vehicles as well as some insurers classifying them as "exotics" or outright refusing to insure them at all. This will eventually result in the vehicles losing value because they will be expensive to insure.
If this policy continues, especially as cars come off warranty and Tesla denies access to service data and parts to independent shops, There will likely be bad publicity and lawsuits. This will definitely not fly with a mass-market affordable car such as the Model 3.
I believe this a grave threat to Tesla's mission, and I think action should be taken immediately.
Elon has stated that service is not intended to be a profit center, yet parts are not freely a
They have accepted preorders way before that so they have been on the market for more than a decade. Besides, even a decade is more than long enough to stop being a startup.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
From what I gather info online, and from what limited experience I have (on *other* cars) :
Nope.
It's not the *car* that gets remotely disabled. (That would actually be illegal. See Renault's answer on complains about risk of remote shut down of rented Zoe batteries).
It's Tesla banning some models *from their own charger*.
Super Chargers : it's their chargers, it's their call to decide what goes on there.
Chademo : They don't own these chargers, it's the charger's owner decision if they accept you on them or not. The dozen of such chargers I've seen, the only concern of the charger owner is that you swipe your credit card or membership card so they can charge you
(even if the amount is ridiculously low -- the privilege of living in a country with a high cost of living and Alpine hydro everywhere : electricity seems cheap, even if it would probably give a heart attack to somebody from China if they hear how much we pay for it).
The owner of the charging stations usually don't give a damn about what you plug into it.
Their logic being :
- if you drove it all the way to reach this highway rest area, it means that it has passed the law-required safety test, and should be more or less safe.
- the charging system have a couple of safety measures to avoid incidents.
Both the above should be enough to lower the risk of a Frankentesla catching fire to an acceptable level for them.
Which also means :
had the remote-disabled Tesla currently reported on youtube happened in Europe, instead of leaving the car at a friend or needing to tow it all the way back to home, the owner of the Frankentesla, could simply plug it into a competitor's chademo station with such an adapter - or like in my post above example, into a slower Mennekes AC plug, and had it fully recharge for about the same money that his coffee budget for the trip, (and of course record his youtube rant in front of the competitor charger).
(Or maybe even for free. Some businesses provide Mennekes AC charging for free as a way to attract customers - IKEA does here around)
But given most of the turn of events, I deduce that :
- charging station other than supercharger apparently aren't that common in the US ? So leaving the car at a nearby's friend is the only solution.
- given the type of power plugs available in the US (120V, capped at 10A max ?), it would take several days/a week to charge the battery and the friend might not be happy with such high and prolonged consumption.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I have heard, that if you get it up to 88 mph, and put it in reverse while pressing the gas and brakes at the same time.
A service menu hud pups up on the windshield.
And you can change all kinds of cool settings, like the color of the brake-lights, or make the steering-wheel left handed.
It might, if you're trying to reboot your crashed laptop while you drive.
I had no idea that an F150 was a car!
It's a small truck isn't it?
Take a look at the "Rich Rebuilds" youtube channel for further information.
The guy tries to get salvaged Teslas running. His difficulties are clearly documented on the site.
No parts from Tesla for repair and if Tesla remotely disables the car, it can't be run without a code from Tesla after they determine the car is acceptable to their standards (or maybe never if they don't like the car).