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Concert Ticket Retailer AXS Collects Personally Identifiable Data Through Its App, Which is Mandatory To Download, and Sells It To 3rd Party Without Anonymizing (theoutline.com)

Posted by msmash on from the day-light-robbery dept.

AXS, a digital marketplace operated by Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), is the second largest presenter of live events in the world after Live Nation Entertainment (i.e. Ticketmaster). Paris Martineau of The Outline reports that the company forces customers to download a predatory app which goes on to snatch up a range of personally identifiable data and sells it to a range of companies, including Facebook and Google, without ever anonymizing or aggregating them. From the report: The company requires users to download an app to use any ticket for a concert, game, or show bought through AXS, and it doesn't come cheap. AXS uses a system called Flash Seats, which relies on a dynamically generated barcode system (read: screenshotting doesn't work) to fight off ticket scalping and reselling. [...] Here's a brief overview of all of the information that can be collected from just the mobile app alone, nearly all of which is shared with third parties without being anonymized or aggregated: first and last name, precise location (as determined by GPS, WiFi, and other means), how often the app is used, what content is viewed using the app, which ads are clicked, what purchases are made (and not made), a user's personal advertising identifier, IP address, operating system, device make and model, billing address, credit card number, security code, mailing address, phone number, and email address, among many others. [...] AXS also shares the personal data collected on its customers with event promoters and other clients, none of whom are bound even by this (extremely lax) privacy policy.

52 of 82 comments (clear)

  1. Credit card #? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Name, credit card #, CVN, and EXP? Can't wait till they're on the hook for a massive credit card fraud spree -- should be fun to watch them get sued into bankruptcy.

    1. Re:Credit card #? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Regardless, that's probably against the card companies' TOS. Can't wait for the firm to be hammered with lawsuits.

    2. Re:Credit card #? by DarkRookie · · Score: 1

      Cmon. The Arctic Monkeys arent that bad.

      --
      The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    3. Re:Credit card #? by originalGMC · · Score: 2

      Nobody is forcing them to download anyhting. If you don't want the app then don't pay rip-off fees to go see some talentless shit-heel sing and dance.

      It's this kind of shithead mentality that makes me proud to be an american.

    4. Re:Credit card #? by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Its surprising they don't run a fowl of credit card processing agreements.

    5. Re:Credit card #? by Luthair · · Score: 2

      Do they proactively disclose it upfront? Or do they bury this in the EULA?

      I've said this before on similar topics, we need laws around the reasonable expectations of the average user. The normal expectations of buying a concert ticket do not include being doxxed.

    6. Re:Credit card #? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Its surprising they don't run a fowl of credit card processing agreements.

      A CHICKEN??? Really?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:Credit card #? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      If you have season tickets to various sports teams, you have to use the f***ing app.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    8. Re:Credit card #? by Khyber · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The credit card companies will absolutely do something. That this info is easily identified means it's not protected or encrypted, which runs afoul of a slew of PCI-DSS compliance rules. The credit companies will stop anything of this size from happening. They do not want the fraud hit.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    9. Re:Credit card #? by WolfWalker545 · · Score: 2

      In this post, we see someone that has never had to go through a PCI audit or training.

    10. Re:Credit card #? by DarkRookie · · Score: 2

      It did
      Where have you seen any kind of fitting punishment for Experian.
      Nothing but a couple of slaps on the wrist.
      Where is the $3.7 trillion fine they deserved.

      148000000 records times $25000 per record lost (since it was cause they didn't patch something. If it was something else, I would lower the fine amount.)

      --
      The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    11. Re:Credit card #? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      ...what sibling said - PCI is a mofo of a standard if you go about violating it, and yet still expect to have any payment processors even think of coming near you.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    12. Re:Credit card #? by originalGMC · · Score: 1

      I have tickets to the local soccer team. They tried to get us to use the seat geek app (highly data collection / data leaking / full of adverts) so we asked and they printed us some plastic credit card looking things. Just have to ask is all.

    13. Re:Credit card #? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Lots of free press?

      --
      Requiem for the American Dream
    14. Re:Credit card #? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Only individuals feel consequences of their actions.

      --
      Requiem for the American Dream
  2. stoopit by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Who the hell would download an app to buy a ticket?

    1. Re:stoopit by DarkRookie · · Score: 1

      Most Americans at the least.

      --
      The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    2. Re:stoopit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      According to the article, the notice that you MUST install the app came AFTER they have your money.

    3. Re:stoopit by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Make it so that you save 1 dollar on a 150 dollar ticket and EVERYONE will.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:stoopit by jetkust · · Score: 3, Informative

      Who the hell would download an app to buy a ticket?

      Someone who is told they must download an app to buy a ticket. But that isn't even what has happened here. They were told they have to download an app and create an account after already buying the ticket.

    5. Re:stoopit by crow · · Score: 1

      So what if (like my wife) you don't have a smart phone?

    6. Re: stoopit by Tomahawk · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same. The argument is probably that a high enough percentage of people have them that they don't care about the others, and would likely just refund you the money and tell you you can't go. It would piss off those few people, but it's a small enough number that they would reckon it doesn't little to no harm to their business.

      Unfortunately.

    7. Re:stoopit by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Informative

      They were told they have to download an app and create an account after already buying the ticket.

      Their terms of purchase make no mention of the app, so this looks like AXS is breaking their contracts.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    8. Re:stoopit by originalGMC · · Score: 3, Informative

      most venues in seattle don't charge the ridiculous fees if you show up in person to box office hours. Also I've bought tickets from this company before and never downloaded the app. They did tell me I had to download the app though, which I ignored. The tickets were emailed to me like immediately.

    9. Re:stoopit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So what if (like my wife) you don't have a smart phone?

      I frequently ask the same question, since like your wife, I don't have a smart phone either.

      I can't tell you how often some helpful idiot of a cashier or whatever tries to direct me to their app .. sorry, no, don't have apps, don't want apps. What's that? You can't answer my question but you're sure the company app can help? Nope, sorry, I'm simply going somewhere else.

      Fucking apps. Everything is a goddamned app. And every fucking one of them primarily exists to scrape your personal information and sell it. At this point, I think it's safe to conclude that all apps are written by incompetent morons on behalf of greedy assholes, so why would I trust anybody's app?

      Sorry, no, I'm not playing that game.

      Let me know when we've reached peak app, and I can stop hearing about it.

    10. Re:stoopit by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Even better, make the ticket $150, but add a $15 "convenience fee" for using the app. Then pretty much everyone will get the app.

      No, I'm not joking. You know full well it's true.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    11. Re:stoopit by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Everything is a goddamned app. And every fucking one of them primarily exists to scrape your personal information and sell it.

      Mobile apps seem to be a two-sided race to the bottom. Users think anything, no matter how complicated or how much work is required to create it, should be a $2 app. Consequently, people with something serious to offer struggle to do it at a viable price point through mobile apps. There are some useful free apps provided in conjunction with something else: some exhibitions have really good tour guides as mobile apps now, for example, and there are some helpful journey planners and the like provided by governments and transport services. There are a very few decent apps that are relatively cheap to produce and mass-market, so they can afford margins measured in cents and make it up on volume. And then the other 95% is dominated by cheap, exploitative junk.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    12. Re:stoopit by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Fucking apps. Everything is a goddamned app.

      You should write a letter listing your concerns.

      Here's a link to the Complaint Letter app.

      --
      Requiem for the American Dream
    13. Re:stoopit by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Who the hell would download an app to buy a ticket?

      Someone wanting to go to a concert? Installing an app is a frigging low bar for people these days.

  3. Reselling tickets by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Companies hate reselling tickets because it blows holes in the demand/price relationship. You can see that for some events the tickets are priced much too high. For instance baseball tickets when resold can go for as low as $5 (or aren't sold at all), because the demand really isn't there.

    1. Re:Reselling tickets by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

      There are some more legitimate grounds for trying to limit the resale market as well. Some high profile artists have been really cracking down on this in the UK recently, because it had reached the point where automated bots were just buying up all the tickets to gigs within moments of them becoming available and then the tickets were being sold on almost immediately but at much-inflated prices on the second hand market.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  4. WTF by darkain · · Score: 2

    Try reading the actual article. I couldn't muster the entire thing because the amount of asinine bullshit in it. It really reads as through the guy just read through the TOS for AXS app, and didn't understand half of it, and so made false conclusions based on piecing unrelated parts together.

    Can the app collect your credit card number? Of course, it is a commerce app for purchasing tickets.

    Can the app share information to Facebook? Of course, what app DOESNT have a "SHARE THAT I'M AT THIS CONCERT RIGHT NOW" feature.

    Are these two features directly linked? Of fucking course not. But both exist in the same TOS, therefor the article writer is making false conclusions based on their own idiotic click-baitery sensationalistic bullshit.

    1. Re:WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of fucking course not. But both exist in the same TOS, therefor the article writer is making false conclusions based on their own idiotic click-baitery sensationalistic bullshit.

      Well, you are free to refute what he said, but since you've basically said nothing but "yarg, I disagree" ... I'm going to conclude you've made your own false conclusions based on your own form of idiotic bullshit.

    2. Re:WTF by originalGMC · · Score: 1

      Dude, why would anyone READ an ARTICLE? Too many ads anyways, can't tell what's an article and what's not anymore. Just stick to the headlines. lulz

    3. Re:WTF by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      Try reading the actual article. I couldn't muster the entire thing because the amount of asinine bullshit in it. It really reads as through the guy just read through the TOS for AXS app, and didn't understand half of it, and so made false conclusions based on piecing unrelated parts together.

      I would agree. Going to the AXS website shows you can still do the email ticket to print at home, will call, or "Download the app and no more worries about losing a ticket or realizing you left the ticket at home the moment you arrived at the venue. " I'm guessing the writer assumed the app was the only way to get a ticket, didn't bother to check the AXS website, and then went off on the rant.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    4. Re:WTF by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      I'm still going to be outraged that this app will post my location to Facebook without encrypting it.

  5. I have to ask by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Is that app available in the EU, too?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re: I have to ask by Tomahawk · · Score: 1

      I doubt it. The GDPR would protect from most of what oc is saying about it, or would fine the company to the ground. GDPR violations are based on turnover, not profit. So if a ticket seeks for â100 plus â2.50 handling, the fine is based on â102.50, even though â100 is going to the concert venue.
      There are lots of provision in the GDPR as to what you can collect (typically data that you must have in order to do business with the customer, and no personal data, like religious view, sexual orientation, etc), who that data can be shared with, under what terms the data can be shared (is. Compatible terms to your own T&Cs), etc etc. It's quite strict and comprehensive.

    2. Re: I have to ask by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I doubt it. The GDPR would protect from most of what oc is saying about it, or would fine the company to the ground. GDPR violations are based on turnover, not profit. So if a ticket seeks for â100 plus â2.50 handling, the fine is based on â102.50, even though â100 is going to the concert venue.

      I wonder if they block purchases based on IP addresses. An EU citizen could install the app on a visit to the US, use it in the EU to buy a ticket if they don't block via IP address (or using a VPN if they do); thereby potentially opening them up to a GDRP complaint.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    3. Re: I have to ask by sajavete · · Score: 3, Informative

      https://www.gdpreu.org/complia... Actually, the GDPR sets fines to as high as 2-4% of the violating company's annual revenue or €10-20B (whichever is higher :)), not just one transaction. Basically it means that: "if you mess with our people's rights, we will bury you in the smoking ruins of your HQ"

    4. Re: I have to ask by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Hold my beer, gotta check when the next flight to the US takes off.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. 4 letters by Tomahawk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    GDPR

    It's because of stuff like this that the GDPR was put in place in the EU. The rest of the world really should follow suit.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

  7. Forced? by sinij · · Score: 2, Informative

    I recently went to a show, and while many people used apps to show bar codes, printed version that I presented worked just as well.

    1. Re:Forced? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      AXS uses Flash Seats to control entry. The barcode is dynamically generated right when you go to the concert. There's no printed version of anything, no screenshotting, no sharing, nothing.

      No App, No concert.

    2. Re:Forced? by sinij · · Score: 1

      I understand you are tied to your smartphone, but ticket booths and paper tickets still exist. Give up some of the convenience of booking online and this issue completely goes away. You just need to get off your ass and find physical location. I yet to go to a concert, show, or talk that would not accept some form of a paper ticket.

    3. Re:Forced? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I understand you are tied to your smartphone, but ticket booths and paper tickets still exist. Give up some of the convenience of booking online

      Lol what are you watching, some small local musician no one has ever heard of? In all seriousness though there's a large number of shows these days that never make it to any ticket office. A small group are reserved for registered fan clubs, some for competitions, and the rest will sell out within minutes online. Ticket offices just aren't a thing for many events.

      All of that is also beside the point. At no point during the ticket purchase was the app required for this. The app requirement came *after* the ticket was purchased, even by people who've never heard or used the app. Your local office doesn't help you there, thought it would give you the opportunity to vent your disagreement with a person in front of you when they tell you their (IMO) idiotic policy.

  8. AEG = Philip Anschutz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Wikipedia page is here. He's a Christian conservative, worth over $12B, and owns a multitude of businesses in a variety of different industries.

  9. Re:Regulate the SOBs by Alain+Williams · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is the sort of thing that the EU's GDPR is supposed to address. Hopefully it will provide a model for other jurisdictions, I think that California's Privacy Bill is along the same lines.

    The other thing that we badly need are devices that let us lie to apps; show them the profile that we want them to know. It should also be illegal for apps to refuse to work if they detect that they are being lied to.

  10. Wrong bird by bagofbeans · · Score: 1

    Not a chicken, they'll parrot the usual excuses and nobody in management is touched. Possibly a cost of doing business fine, less than the cost of doing security properly

  11. And they probably know who you vote for. by Myself · · Score: 2

    Several years ago, we were talking about Gracenote's metadata, it came up that your musical tastes are a shockingly accurate predictor of your political leanings.

    So consider that this metadata just helped all those "partners" build an even more accurate profile of you.

  12. Yep by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    This is just one more reason I rarely install apps on my phone.

    It seems as if most apps do suspicious shit in the background, and/or harvest your data, display ads, drain your battery, etc etc etc.

    I mean seriously- why does a flashlight app need access to my contacts or my location information?

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Yep by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      I use a network monitor on my Android phone (network monitor mini) and I am amazed how many apps hit the network the instant you wake your phone up. I've even tried restricting background data for the apps that show up, but it made no difference.

      I really miss Windows Mobile, and that's saying something!

      Damn you HP for killing PalmOS!!

      Jolla?

      I'll bet it's hard to get venture capital without a good plan to capitalize on your users personal information.