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FCC Proposes To Maintain US Broadband Standard of 25Mbps Down, 3Mbps Up (arstechnica.com)

The FCC is proposing to maintain the U.S. broadband standard at the current level of 25Mbps downstream and 3Mbps upstream. FCC Chairman Ajit Pai has kept the standard at these speeds since 2017, despite calls to raise it from Democratic Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel. This week, Pai proposed keeping the standard the same for another year. Ars Technica reports: The FCC raised the standard from 4Mbps/1Mbps to 25Mbps/3Mbps in January 2015 under then-Chairman Tom Wheeler. Ajit Pai, who was then a commissioner in the FCC's Republican minority, voted against raising the speed standard. As FCC chairman since 2017, Pai has kept the standard at 25Mbps/3Mbps despite calls to raise it from Democratic Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel. This week, he proposed keeping the standard the same for another year. "This inquiry fundamentally errs by proposing to keep our national broadband standard at 25Mbps," Rosenworcel said yesterday. "It is time to be bold and move the national broadband standard from 25 Megabits to 100 Megabits per second. When you factor in price, at this speed the United States is not even close to leading the world. That is not where we should be and if in the future we want to change this we need both a more powerful goal and a plan to reach it. Our failure to commit to that course here is disappointing. I regretfully dissent." While Pai's proposal isn't yet finalized, keeping the current speed standard would likely mean that Pai's FCC will conclude that broadband deployment is already happening fast enough throughout the US. Pai could use that conclusion in attempts to justify further deregulation of the broadband industry.

194 comments

  1. Can't wait by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

    Since I only have 10 down and 1 up now, 25 and 3 will be quite an improvement.

    1. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is about calling it "Broadband". It doesn't mean they will upgrade your speed. They just can't call the slower junk "broadband". (Also: 25/3 = broadband has existed for a few years already...)

    2. Re:Can't wait by Darinbob · · Score: 0

      Oh ya, it's existed for some time, it doesn't mean it's available to everyone and ISPs will call stuff slow than that "broadband".

    3. Re:Can't wait by Use+Crisco+in+Sodomy · · Score: 0

      Can't wait for the slow insertion to happen with a large phallus and a nice, icing-like lubricant when the regime changes and the FCC imposes its fairness doctrine 2.0 upon the internets. ;)

      -UCIS!-

    4. Re:Can't wait by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's not only far below the standard of most Western countries, we pay more for it than they do for better speeds.

      Pai and his cronies are corporate shills, not responsible regulators. He needs to be shown the door.

    5. Re:Can't wait by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      "Broadband" means my wife and daughter can stream two different movies, and I can still read email and get work done.

      Even at HD quality, 10 Mbps is good enough for that.

    6. Re:Can't wait by GLowder · · Score: 2

      This is all laughable to those of us "last milers". We're out in the country at the edge of DSL. We're lucky to get 2.6 down / 0.3 up. My wife can saturate one line easily so if Dad (me) wants to game, I have to have my own DSL line, hence we have two DSL lines into our house. It's still just barely liveable. A new neighbor down the street can't even get DSL (he's actually closer to the DSL access point than I am). AT&T told him they're not installing them anymore because they're not profitable. He's left with NO access.

      --
      I used to have a good sig...
    7. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in a South East Asian country that most Americans would probably classify as third world. Nominally, my connection is 300MBps in both directions. I just measured the actual speed at 96M down, 62M up, which is probably at least partially limited by the fact that I'm on WiFi and too lazy to plug a LAN cable into the router for a real test. This connection costs me $44 per month.

    8. Re:Can't wait by Rewind · · Score: 1

      That is subjective, unless the email is the most bandwidth intensive bit of your work, I doubt that. I mean 10 down isn't awful, but calling to broadband in the US in 2018? Also doing much of any work with a git repo on 1 up sounds awful. Ultimately the problem is that word means "good internet" to a lot of people simply because they do not understand any more detailed explanations of speed.

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      ?
    9. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I live in one of those socialist/communist/whatever hellholes in Europe that the current US administration love to use as an example of how everything goes down the drain "over there". I am currently sitting on a 1000/500 Mbps for €11.90/month. And that thing called data caps? Never heard of over here, not for fixed line internet.

    10. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pai and his cronies are corporate shills, not responsible regulators. He needs to be shown the door.

      Sure,but you were being screwed over long before him.
      He is just a slimy henchman getting handsomely paid for getting your anger directed at him.

      You need to get rid of him, that is true, but he is essentially just an overpaid version of customer support that just deflects you while the company screws you over.
      Get them fired and a new deflector will be hired.

      There are two options.
      Either go after the source or make such an example of him that no-one wants to be the next guy.
      Only the first one is really legal.

    11. Re:Can't wait by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Back in '98 I was shelling out $200 a month for 128K ISDN. As late as 2011, I've lived in places where 1mbps DSL was my only option. Having gone to municipal symmetrical gigabit, it'll be hard to move anywhere else. That's where the USA needs to be right now. If broadband markets were actually allowed to be competitive, it could be. The forces that prevent it are largely corrupt, and the voters very much need to make this an election issue everywhere.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    12. Re:Can't wait by qbast · · Score: 1

      I had the same problem - much slower speed over wifi. It got solved by one call to technical support - they started with a standard line 'we do not guarantee speeds over wifi' but immediately followed it with 'but we will replace your router with dual-band model, it should help'. And it helped a lot - on 5GHz I always have full speed.

    13. Re:Can't wait by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Hey I've been there pal, had to shell out $3k to get cable run the whole BLOCK AND A HALF to my mother's house when she got down during her last year of life because my choices were...

      1.- Dial up on lines AT&T hasn't given a shit about in 25+ years and are in horribly bad shape, 2.- Satnet that was so shit their rep actually said I should add dial up service to it for a SPEED BOOST , 3.- A WISP ran so incompetently they automatically assumed anybody who was using more bandwidth than a granny watching cat vids on her phone "must have teh virus", had NO kind of provisioning on their network (so anybody could just take all the bandwidth as they had ZERO control) and their "IT specialist" was so damned pants on head retarded when I brought in my laptop and told him flat footed "so show me this magical virus" he tried to Install Norton for Windows...on a Linux laptop...I shit you not, he just kept trying to run a Windows executable on a Linux laptop and never was smart enough to figure out that Mandrake wasn't some version of Windows...ugh. Needless to say I demanded and got my money back from those yahoos and couldn't get out of there fast enough.

      I'm just glad I at least had the option of paying the $3k and getting the damned cable line run so now I get 75mbps down and 6mbps up, because i honestly don't think i could have lived with service THAT shitty, I would have had to put mom up in an apt somewhere and sell the house, but its pretty damned sad there is so few choices but as long as the corps can make so much more selling cellphones with itty bitty data plans I don't see that changing anytime soon.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    14. Re:Can't wait by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

      Until your work is interrupted by your daughter complaining that her Disney stream is stopping/stuttering because Disney is not paying your provider the same as Netflix is to keep the streams ehem... steaming. But that's a different subject, isn't it?

      I agree that 10 Mbps should be enough but in my experience, it rarely is. Diagnosing why... is it the provider? Is it the streaming service? Is it something in between!? Now days I am told I get "up to 150 Mbps downloads!" & speed tests seem to confirm it, but I still have problems. Fucking Comcrap.

      --
      SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
    15. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is 10 Mbits real or nominal? I have 24 Mbit line but real download speed is 9.46 Mbits/sec. For HD it is not enough. BlueRay has variable compression up to 54 Mbits/sec.

    16. Re: Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also live in a third world shithole and am so glad I have fast cheap internet and a dictatorship to guarantee my freedom to support the regime lest I be shot. Because as we all know, cheap fast net is the gold standard by which a country should be judged as a good place or not. No one needs any of that pesky freedom, education, safety, clean food and water and huge oceans between us and the nearest enemy army waiting to take over such as oh say China who claims my country as part of Greater China or anything like that.

      Yup. Fast cheap net is the critical metric of first world super power status!

      Yes, I have travelled extensively and visited shitholes where yes you can get cheap net and cheaper whores and those are the only two good things to be said for your country.

    17. Re: Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats want to raise what is considered "broadband" so the metrics that show broadband adoption will stall, justifying more government interference (and more political bribes).

      Republicans, for their part, are likely paying back their respective bribers a bit with this move, but you already knew that angle, based on the slant of the summary, article, and the fact that not changing a thing that wasn't expected to change is even news at all.

    18. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are calling plans slower than 25/3 'broadband', then you should report them to the FCC because they are violating the law.

    19. Re:Can't wait by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Do you understand how peering works? And why netflix got fucked when they tried to go around everyone that actrually OWNS the wires used for the internet and decided they could get a better peering deal by their self. then they cried foul when the other companies laughed in their face(paraphrasing and such) a quick google search will give you the truth about it, comcast didnt just decide to throttle netflix out of the blue even know thats how most try to portray it to "push NN".

    20. Re: Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, not going to happen. Your an idiot.

    21. Re:Can't wait by dryeo · · Score: 1

      I'm in Canada, stuck on dial-up until last year, now I have an LTE connection, 10-25 down 1-3 up depending on time of day, with a 250GB limit. Does cost close to a hundred a month.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    22. Re:Can't wait by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 2

      Is 10 Mbits real or nominal?

      Neither. It's your maximum. ISPs have this thing called an "oversubscription rate". So let's say that the oversubscription rate is 10, that means you are sharing your 24 Mbit/s with 9 (effectively) other customers that have the same service. Like most telecom services, they bank on the fact that most of the time most customers' usage is well below what they pay for.

      In other words, ISPs are totally full of shit. Also, don't trust speed tests. ISPs regularly detect them and suddenly (as if by magic!) you get what you're paying for.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    23. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are calling plans slower than 25/3 'broadband', then you should report them to the FCC because they are violating the law.

      Citation please ... or STFU

    24. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is all laughable to those of us "last milers". We're out in the country at the edge of DSL. We're lucky to get 2.6 down / 0.3 up. My wife can saturate one line easily so if Dad (me) wants to game, I have to have my own DSL line, hence we have two DSL lines into our house. It's still just barely liveable. A new neighbor down the street can't even get DSL (he's actually closer to the DSL access point than I am). AT&T told him they're not installing them anymore because they're not profitable. He's left with NO access.

      Last time I checked...

      In America it is supposedly your own choice to live in BFE.

      So if you live in BFE don't expect the same level of service that yo might get living in a major US city. And I don't mean living in the 'Burbs, I mean IN THE CITY.

    25. Re:Can't wait by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Been there. Satellite was my only option. The cable for internet service ended about a 100 feet from my house I could have thrown the last mile for service. I actually offered to pay all the expenses to run it to my house. They wouldn't do it because I was outside the service area and there was enough houses to service.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    26. Re:Can't wait by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      No 4k or 8k TV for me

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. Oh well... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    I guess I don't have broadband after all.

    1. Re:Oh well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't feel bad, few Americans do!

      If a movie spools while you are watching it, you can count on the fact that you are being throttled.

      Having dd-WRT enabled firewall/router allows one to see their bandwidth in real time.

      Whenever I was spooled by the cable company, DD-WRT showed that they were throttling my bandwidth to less than 200Kpbs, which is way lower than DSL bandwidths, Until you can get Fiber To The Home (no business reason to throttle FTTH) you are better off with DSL's lower per monthly prices because of this.

      More like us than not, FYI.

  3. So this is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because, wooo, 25 MILLION bits in one second? Wow! How fast is that!

    1. Re: So this is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      idk, ur partner would probably appreciate u not being so fast tho

    2. Re: So this is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Per google, the average ejaculation delivers 135000 Terabytes (https://bitesizebio.com/8378/how-much-information-is-stored-in-the-human-genome/) -- assuming the poster is male, and he takes a full hour to achieve this, that's 300Tbits per sec. So his partner is probably way, way past appreciative and well into SORE.

      Parent poster, you are amazing. And possibly dangerous.

  4. Broadband != High Speed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Broadband" means something specific, and that meaning doesn't shift over time. "High-speed," on the other hand, is much more subjective and liable to shift with the times.

    1. Re: Broadband != High Speed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please define broadband for us, tell us precisely what it means

    2. Re: Broadband != High Speed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legally, it means at least 25 down/3 up.

    3. Re:Broadband != High Speed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh... You do know that there's only one speed for wire / fiber transmission right? Light speed.

      Bandwidth, which is a capacity measurement, and is not "speed".

      Anything less than gigabit, which is limited due to the ridiculously low MTU used (1500 or less depending on the number of NAT layers between you and the open internet) wastes between 15 and 30% of that bandwidth, is unacceptable. Paying more than $30.00 a month for it is also unacceptable.
      Why? Because 98% of all deployments were already payed for by taxes. These companies need to have their scrotums ripped apart, their corporate officers jailed, preferably for life, in gitmo, along with their greedy majority shareholders for pushing the envelope.

      What needs to happen, in all seriousness.

      FTC - Mandate that all "internet" advertised bandwidths be absolute minimum throughput ratings. No more. Speeds up to, as speed is constant, light speed.
      FCC - AT&T, Time-Warner, Verizon, Comcast, etc - all internet infrastructure ripped from them, made common-carrier, outside of their control, where *THEY* have to pay in to get their content onto the internet, where all content is carried equally, unrestricted, unmolested. Every ISP pays into a kitty which is used to expand coverage, improve bandwidth capacity, end all the interconnect bullshit.
      FCC - Rip all cellular infrastructure away from the cell companies, make it common carrier, any company that wants to provide service, can, at the same cost, to anyone. No minute limits, no message limits, no bandwidth limits. Again, all cell companies pay in to a common pool to improve coverage, bandwidth capacity, etc.
      FCC - End bundling of channels. No longer allowed. If a media company wants you to watch "The Shopping Channel", they can pay you to watch it. Want to watch a particular channel? 1 buck a month, per channel. Why so cheap? Because they have advertisement on it. If they want 2 bucks a month, they have to remove all commercials.

  5. Who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares about the speed when you don't have neutrality?

    1. Re: Who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mueller Time coming up.

      Then we can start going to work on this lock spittle Pai. I can't wait to watch him swallow shit.

    2. Re:Who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have net neutrality here because both parties here in Washington State were able to agree that it's important enough to protect. It was one of the few things that they were almost completely in agreement with and both parties proposed legislation that was similar in design.

      I'm guessing a lot of that has to do with Amazon, MS and various other tech companies being here as well as it being aligned with the interests of the various customers.

    3. Re:Who cares. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Who cares about neutrality if your speed is capped at 1 byte per second?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    4. Re: Who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Seattle apartments were still on 300 baud modems though?

    5. Re:Who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I parallel that thought.
          -- Serial monster

      RRK

    6. Re: Who cares. by turkeyfish · · Score: 1

      Seattle is better connected than those of us on the far side of Puget Sound. In Kitsap county we are restricted to 150 GB/sec for about $70/month unless you start paying much more for enterprise/business service, which can get you up to about 500 GB/sec. Of course, you can always get much less broadband and speed if you don't want to pay the local, largely monopolistic Comcast Communications for service.

  6. Maybe it's time to take big money out of politics by burtosis · · Score: 1, Insightful

    With all the shenanigans lately, perhaps the best way to fix problems with providers and the FCC is to vote for canidates who don't take PAC money. Crony capitalism doesn't seem to be providing the best infrastructure, regulation, or competitive rates.

  7. What does ... by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... Pai have at his house? Any chance we can get that throttled back to 25/3?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:What does ... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Why not dial-up and satellite speed? ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  8. Re: Maybe it's time to take big money out of polit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Maybe you would prefer another reality where humans are not human and they behave as you want

  9. JFDAVIS LOVES AJIT PAI's WEAK STREAM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for being the stubborn apologist shill for a retarded, backwards, development-limiting policy managed by liars who fake "hacking" events and use bots to push their bullshit agenda, Davis. You should hang next to Trump, truly.

  10. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best way is to not vote GOP.

    Even better, people who vote GOP should just die before the 2020 census.

  11. Eww by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is this, mid-90s DSL? This is 20 years later... wtf...

    1. Re:Eww by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, to meet or exceed this you need VSDL i.e. fast DSL you will never have unless your phone line is less than a kilometer or half-mile long.

      I had early DSL and it was 512K/128K, later upgraded to 1024K/128K! 80ms latency (up from 60ms on ISDN)

      ADSL2+ brought this to theoretical 25 or 20 down (25 was bogus and didn't account for some frame overhead), 1 up, effective 15/1, latency perhaps 40-45ms, less if you're lucky.

    2. Re:Eww by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it makes you feel any better, I have 3/1. I'm not in the US, though (Canada).

    3. Re:Eww by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow I thought the US was bad! I thought Canada was supposed to be ahead of us in tech?

    4. Re:Eww by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Newsflash: The average of a country doesn't mean everyone has that speed.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    5. Re: Eww by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Canada is king in small data caps

    6. Re:Eww by guacamole · · Score: 0

      Idiot troll. Go back to your cave.

    7. Re:Eww by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Oh that's so sweet, you looked up several of my comments to post the same thing.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  12. Welp by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    at least they didn't drop it. At this point I wouldn't be surprised by anything this FCC admin does.

    --
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    1. Re:Welp by Darinbob · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The primary qualification to be appointed by Trump is to be wholely dedicated heart and soul to dismantling all regulations. These guys make Tea Party faithfuls seem tepid in comparison. Ajit Pai however is on a committee and he can't just dismantle via fiat, he has to get enough of the other members to go along with him. If he had his way, the airwaves would be controlled by whichever corporate trade association had the biggest guns, Shadowrun style.

    2. Re:Welp by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      at least they didn't drop it.

      Would it matter if they did? These random numbers have no real effect on what services you can or cannot get. They're just speeds the government says you have to provide to use a specific marketing term in your advertisement. There's plenty of alternative terms that are not being regulated the same way.

    3. Re:Welp by bigfinger76 · · Score: 1

      I think the idea was tossed around early on. And I agree, this feels like a 'victory'.

    4. Re:Welp by Frank+Burly · · Score: 1

      "The American people realize that a lot of our greatest technical innovation took place when internet speeds averaged out at 56k, so . . ."

    5. Re:Welp by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      No, it is tied to subsidies.

  13. id hate to say it by nimbius · · Score: 1, Insightful

    but not even another cold war could inspire this government to be competitive enough to consider a reasonable national broadband standard with the chops to rival even the smallest european nation.

    For a party that so champions American Exceptionalism, Ajit sold any idea of it down the crapper when he axed net neutrality in favor of corporate kickbacks. My only hope is that this grinning philistine finds his comeuppance in the history books as one of the feckless imbeciles that sped the nation from innovation.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:id hate to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With 5G networks, US shall overcome! Seriously speaking, as the others have written, the technology transition (from ADSL2+ to VDSL2, microwave and fiber) between the speed grades is most likely the issue here.

    2. Re: id hate to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I Wonderland if USA can get the regular 5G or ir will belike when companies started to sell LTE as 4G.

  14. Data Caps & Rural by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd rather have slow DSL than fast mobile, personally, because my household uses about 300GB/mo.

    But the FCC thinks they're interchangable, which is a big problem.

    Also 39% of rural Americans don't even have access to the current standard. As a government entity they ought to be focused on that, from a 14th Amendment perspective. If their rules are slowing new deployments, that's an equal protection issue, and the data shows that the Title II rules did just that.

    https://www.fcc.gov/reports-re...

    --
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    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Data Caps & Rural by corydoras · · Score: 1

      The problem I'm having in rural America is that the only high speed internet option is $80/month for "25" Mbps down, 1 Mbps up. I would happily have much slower if it didn't cost as much.

  15. 25/3 is fine by irving47 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just to avoid getting kicked in the face for agreeing with anything he says, at all...: I hate Pai.
    I'd stand in a line just to WATCH him get punched in the face, but 25/3 to meet the requirements of the term 'broadband' for these rural areas with shitty wiring and terrible population density is plenty. 25Mbps downstream is *multiple* 720p or better video streams down and at least 1-2 up. Considering the percentage of Internet traffic that is youtube and facebook and netflix, that's fair math.
    Yeah, of course I want my price to go down, but that's NEVER going to happen with any provider, regardless what the FCC declares "broadband" to be. The last thing I want is to subsidize rural areas getting 1Gbps for 1 house per square mile across the whole country. Let the WISPS do it.

    --
    I had a sucky sig.
    1. Re: 25/3 is fine by irving47 · · Score: 1

      haha. never. Come on, did you not want to punch him purely on the basis of that f'ing lame net neutrality video he did? That's ALL the reason I need.

      --
      I had a sucky sig.
    2. Re: 25/3 is fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's smarter than Trump maybe. He's a shame to anyone also brown for being a fucking liar and sellout, bitch faggot. Hanging him is social justice, anything less is Republican faggot shit as usual. Deal with it snowflake, you won. #Hang.

    3. Re:25/3 is fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last thing I want is to subsidize rural areas getting 1Gbps for 1 house per square mile across the whole country.

      So, you'd rather subsidize rich bored men that legally steal millions by paying themselves from the drain on the economy their companies are, and pay little if any tax.
      This is stupid. Just because you're stuck on DSL or slow cable etc., and a house upgrades from dial up to 1 Gbps, doesn't hurt you. Do you believe they deserve to be on 40 kbps, as long as it's slower than yours, but if they get faster than yours then it's unjust?

    4. Re:25/3 is fine by markdavis · · Score: 1

      Aside from the "punching" stuff.... +1 insightful. This has nothing to do with raising standards across the country, it has more to do with subsidies and the HUGE number of homes that don't even have what we NOW call "broadband." Until we can bring up rural areas to current standards, why do we need to elevate the definition for everyone else?

      Besides, let's not pretend that most cities don't already have way, way higher rates than 25/3 right now. I think I might be on the cheapest and slowest plan on my cable company, and it is 50/6.. but they offer all the way up to 1Gb. Things have not changed do much in the last few years that would make 25/3 seem slow or even unworkable. I thought the whole point of defining "broadband" was to relay what a minimum reasonable speed would be for doing most "modern" stuff and to set targets to bring it to those who don' t have it yet. And right now, 25/3 is still quite capable of it and WAY too many people have no access to it (and no, expensive/spotty cellular data shouldn't count; and neither should expensive/weather-affected/latency-prone satellite).

    5. Re: 25/3 is fine by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

      I agree that 25 down is fine especially because many places still don't even have that but I wish they would raise the upload. The ratio originally was 4/1 and now has dropped to 10/1. 10/1 prevents any innovations that require real 2 way communication. 10/1 basically says that download is all that matters and upload is just for assisting downloading. There are likely a ton of innovations that could benefit from symmetrical connections.

    6. Re:25/3 is fine by irving47 · · Score: 1

      You kinda made my point for me. The telcos are known to have squandered the subsidy money from the government and not upgraded the networks out there in good faith. Now we trust them to do the same thing again? No thanks. And even if we do, we end up paying more to upgrade sparsely populated areas.

      --
      I had a sucky sig.
    7. Re:25/3 is fine by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      I remember those times when they were spending their subsidies. It created most of the cable internet the country still has. Maybe they should have spent more, but I'm getting sick of people saying nothing came of it. Pretty much every new cable ISP was an "@HOME" which was the moniker for these subsidies.

      Started here at 1 mbps down and I guess 64 kbps up. Now I am at 80 mbps down and 10mbps up. Lowest tier package.

      The local cable franchise has changed hands 3 times since then and thats the FUCKING KEY. You dont get the monopoly deal here in rural new england unless you provide good service. If you dont, you will be out.... soon.

      All day long we see California retards complaining about their shitty fucking internet and are constantly crying that the federal government should do something about it. NO. JUST FUCKING NO. Not a one of them has ever posted anything about any cable franchise agreement being up, about any town comptroller or similar that is in charge of signing new agreements, etc. Not fucking once. Not ever. Not here on slashdot.

      Always a bunch of fucking crying for the most removed government apparatus possible to throw its weight around. ITS YOUR LOCAL PROBLEM YOU FUCKS. FIND A LOCAL SOLUTION YOU FUCKS. WE DID. WHY CANT YOU?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    8. Re:25/3 is fine by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      For a person watching a movie on one smart 4K TV.
      Do much more networking and faster network is needed.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    9. Re: 25/3 is fine by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      There are likely a ton of innovations that could benefit from symmetrical connections.

      That's true, but you can't really have it without at least fiber to the curb, if not the home. And the telcos haven't even got broadband to all their customers who have copper. This in spite of our paying them billions of dollars of tax money to do it, and their repeated promises that it would be done long ago. For instance, these payments and promises go all the way back to the days of Pacific Bell. That was two buyouts ago! At the time the promised speed was much lower, and they still haven't delivered that. All telco CEOs should be jailed for theft.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re: 25/3 is fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...] There are likely a ton of innovations that could benefit from symmetrical connections.

      Yeah, like this newfangled 'cloud' thing I keep hearin about. My DSL upload speed is so goddamn slow I had to take multiple naps while uploading photos of my old dentures to craigslist that I was sellin.

  16. Why bother? by bistromath007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's no reason to raise the standard if it's already not being met.

    1. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because raising the standards causes more regions to be 'underserved', forcing the FCC by mandate to enforce means to serve those regions. Such as requesting bids from competitors rather than relying on the lame promises of the incumbent.

      This, obviously, is what Pai's masters at Verizon don't want. They'd rather be able to maintain monopoly in their service areas. If they're building 25/3 for a given area, they claim it's served broadband because it's work in progress, even if that result won't be seen for several years. If they have to build for 100/10, suddenly all that area is under dispute and the FCC is required to do their duty.

    2. Re: Why bother? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Everything 99.9 Mbps and under is already considered underserved. Hence why NY is telling Spectrum to get out of the state.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  17. No! This determines subsidies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Keep it at 25x3. Those of us getting less than 10 or nothing at all need the subsidies. If they raise it to 100 the big companies will just cherry pick the most profitable places near town to upgrade. Those of us truely hurting from the digital devide wont see any improvement.

    1. Re:No! This determines subsidies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      25/3 keeps it in a zone where a phone line theoretically qualifies, although very few phone lines do (a few hundred meters to get VSDL)

      If they raise it to 100, then the rule says a phone line doesn't qualify for broadband anymore. If cable is too slow, upgrade the modems to the current standard (this is rather cheap it if works without having to do something about the copper!). If there's no cable they would have to deploy fiber.
      Worst case anyway, they will ignore whatever the standard says, so nothing change at all.

    2. Re:No! This determines subsidies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regulation should use two separate lower limits: The throughput below which subsidies are issued, and the throughput that a subsidized connection must achieve. The former can and should be quite low (e.g. 25Mbps down / 3Mbps up), to direct subsidies to the places that need them most. The latter should be high, to encourage upgrades which will satisfy demand long-term (e.g. 100Mbps now, 1Gbps capable).

    3. Re: No! This determines subsidies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would finally have to offer fiber

  18. the least they could do is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    25 mbps up / 25 mbps down .........

  19. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So what happens when Democrats start taking/continue taking big money from telcos and cable companies? Do you imagine that they'll fix the broadband problem and whip the telcos into line?

    We should have never even needed the FCC to step in and police the Internet. The FTC already had a job to do, and it failed. Had we proper competition in ISP markets (read: less crony capitalism) the FTC's intervention would have been far less necessary. That also didn't happen.

    Now Democrats - who take money from the telcos just like Republicans - are supposed to fix all of that? Please.

  20. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Crony capitalism doesn't seem to be providing the best infrastructure, regulation, or competitive rates.

    Government is a reflection on the people who voted and on the people who didn't vote. Infrastructure is vital, but people don't treat it as vital. They are easily distracted and directed. You don't think Donald Trump really cares that players kneel do you? No it is red meat for his base lest their accidentally wake up and smell the smoke.

    In fact the times we live in have convinced me of one thing. If Nixon was in power right now, he would never be impeached in a million years.

    If anyone wants to make America great again, then, well, that should not be the case, for if the only thing necessarily for evil to flourish is for it to have support in the media, and if we can't change that, well America will never be great again.

    Greatness is not built on bullshit, but ethics, principles, sacrifice and hard work, and it is not the ethics principles and hard work of one person, but of countless good men and women. Great broadband requires those things as well. Merely changing the definition is not going to matter much. Our vast system of highways and roads was not built by corporations hoping for a subscription and just allowing the corporations to be more evil is unlikely to change that outcome much.

  21. What does this mean for me? by issicus · · Score: 1

    I only get 1mbps/8mbps max on my dsl often less because the speed fluctuates a lot.

    1. Re:What does this mean for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it didn't fluctuate that would be decent typical DSL, somewhat.
      Do you have latency jitter or packet loss?

      I wonder, too : are you stuck on ADSL1? or on ADSL2+. In my country the ISPs just quickly switched to the former about a decade ago.
      I think 8/1 was about the max on ADSL1.

  22. Like how we call the Acela "High-Speed Rail" by kriston · · Score: 1

    It's tradition, like how we call the Acela "High-Speed Rail"

    --

    Kriston

  23. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democrats can be shamed/voted out for not doing the right thing, unlike Republicans these days. #The difference, admit it or not

  24. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    With all the shenanigans lately, perhaps the best way to fix problems with providers and the FCC is to vote for canidates who don't take PAC money.

    That would work if we were not in a hyper-partisan environment where they rather have their "team" win even if it requires PAC money. One way to dilute the problem would be to have ranked voting so that multiple candidates from the same party can be on the ballot or we can have real third party choices.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  25. Rural broadband problems by mveloso · · Score: 1, Informative

    Most slashdot readers don't get it, but rural broadband is hard. Remember rural areas? You know, the places outside of cities?

    America is big, and the rural America are really big. Stringing wire and fiber is expensive, and will never be cost-effective.

    Let's take Etex.net. They have a service area of 710 square miles. That's about the size of Singapore, with a population density of about 0. There are probably 30,000 potential customers in their service area.

    They offer 20Mbps, tops. Are they going to string fiber to everyone? No. Can they do bonded DSL? No. They could run two independent DSL lines and bond at the router? Maybe.

    VDSL2 can get 50Mbps at 1,000 meters from the CO. That doesn't get you much when you're out in the boonies. $13k/mile is suburban fiber-per-mile cost, so maybe it's $7k per mile in rural areas. So you can string fiber 20 miles to that guy's house for $140k. How do you make that back?

    1. Re:Rural broadband problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Making a road is much harder and more expensive than laying fiber. If it was possible to make a road, it is possible to lay fiber.

    2. Re:Rural broadband problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see your reasoning is that they could probably do DSL, but it wouldn't be very profitable, so anything better than DSL is probably economically unfeasible. You're making the assumption that anything better than DSL is more expensive than DSL, but in actual fact the exact opposite is true. Fibre is far cheaper to install and maintain, and is quite economical for sparsely-populated areas, but with a low-enough population density you also get the option of low-cost high-speed wireless networks that wouldn't work in suburbs or cities. DSL is more attractive for densely-populated areas with existing copper telephone infrastructure already in place, but even there it's become unappealing because of better options.

      If they can afford DSL then they can also afford better.

    3. Re:Rural broadband problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you make that back?

      Federal subsidies. WHICH WE HAVE ALREADY GIVEN THEM and they pissed away on bonuses and share buybacks and lobbying not to get busted for it.

      F--- you very much, telephone & cable companies.

      AC

    4. Re:Rural broadband problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're running fibre to every property then you're almost never going to have to run a 20 mile stretch for one property. You might lose money on that particular connection, but you'll make a lot of money on the next one along that stretch, and the next, and the next...

      Of course, the most economical way to cover large areas is fibre to microwave basestations, each of which can cover a few hundred square miles.

    5. Re: Rural broadband problems by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The thing is that we've been paying the providers all those added taxes and fees that do not actually get collected by the government but go into funds for the ISP to buildout rural areas but nobody enforced this. Spectrum promised a lot of states when Charter and TWC merged that they would take their newfound profits and invest in building out unserved and underserved areas and thus far they haven't built out 100M to a single community that didn't already have it.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    6. Re:Rural broadband problems by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Let's take Etex.net. They have a service area of 710 square miles. That's about the size of Singapore, with a population density of about 0. There are probably 30,000 potential customers in their service area.

      So 30000/710 = ~42/square mile or roughly the same as here in Norway (41). Right now 94% has access to a wired connection, 84% has the possibility for 100 Mbps download and 52% has fiber.

      So you can string fiber 20 miles to that guy's house for $140k. How do you make that back?

      If there's one guy living 20 miles from everybody else in a dead end where you'd never need a fiber passing through then obviously you don't. But that cost is an actual cable gate and everything, not one more strand of fiber. So it's more about the marginal cost of connecting one more fiber customer.

      Here in Norway we actually have good public data on this. So 52% has access to fiber today, what about the other 48%? Based on GPS coordinates 73% of them are within 100m of an existing fiber delivery. Another 18% is within 500m (0.3 miles). That's 0.52 + 0.48 * (0.73+0.18) = 95%+ of the population in total. Around here they estimate $15k/km so 0.3 * $15k = $3000, for rural areas it's typically an extra $500 in hook-up and then they estimate roughly $100/year of the subscription fee will be used to down pay the fiber over 25 years. At least here that's feasible and rolling out at a pace of about 4-5%/year.

      My estimate is that at least the people who have cable/VDSL will get fiber eventually, that's 85%. The remaining 9% who are wired maybe. The last few percent are really unfeasible though, we have people with >10km to the nearest access point, even if we build out all those <500m today that means they're still >9500m away from the nearest fiber, they're like your lone man in the wilderness. But that's more likely with 4 people/square mile, not 40. It's rural but hardly empty wilderness.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:Rural broadband problems by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      The thing about areas of low population density is that MOST PEOPLE ARE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

      The real, acknowledged problems with rural broadband have nothing to do with connectivity in metropolitan areas with over 1 million people.

    8. Re:Rural broadband problems by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Most slashdot readers don't get it, but rural broadband is hard.

      It's even harder when you don't bother to try to solve it, and hand out the tax money you were given to solve it as executive bonuses instead.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Rural broadband problems by locopuyo · · Score: 1

      Many people use that road though.

    10. Re:Rural broadband problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hard does not remove the responsibility. That is the same - broken - story that was told when rural mail delivery, electricity, and phone didn't exist. The reasons why we have those today are the same reasons as to why functional (speed) internet is required.

      As always there are a set of people who would be fine with rural areas not having any services or have to fully pay for what they do have. Perhaps they should consider what their food would cost if that were the mode.

      I'm building a home in a major metropolitan area 1st-ring county that only got 10mb LAST YEAR. Before that it was 3mb. Counties like that are where a lot of growth is happening because thats where the growing number of people have to go to find housing - while working in those metros. So this BS about bandwidth and thinking in terms of a farm a hundred miles from civilization doesn't cut it with me.

    11. Re:Rural broadband problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If many people use that road, then many people will use that fiber as well.

    12. Re:Rural broadband problems by Thomas+Charron · · Score: 1

      In the US, companies aren't going to invest in running the 30 miles of fiber between some towns. That's the crux of the issue, really. While our persons per sq kilometer is double what yours is average density wise, there is a great cost in running the actual lines to these locations.

      As an example, the US has 5.5 million miles of just local power lines going to these homes. 5.5 million miles of fiber optic cable costs a whole boatload to run.

      --
      -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
  26. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The definition of 'broadband' is gonna be returned to 4Mbps/1Mbps. Onwards & downwards.

  27. This is all Obama's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He had ten years to work on it, but instead decided just to shake down the carriers and tech companies for cash, starting as a Senator. Ask Qualcomm what they got for $bil bribe.

  28. Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by raymorris · · Score: 5, Informative

    > Oh please define broadband for us, tell us precisely what it means

    In telecommunications, there are three major types of transmission:

    Baseband: The signal is in a channel. A baseband signal on channel 3 doesn't significantly interfere with one on channel 4. 100 Mbps is a baseband signal.

    Passband: The signal is centered on a channel, but spills over. You may know in wifi channel 1 will interfere with channels 2 and 3. You can, however, use channel 1 and channel 3 for separate signals. You just have some interference if the two stations are close together.

    Broadband: The signal is distributed across several channels. Cable TV and internet is a good example. A cable TV channel is 8Mhz wide (if there is a channel at 54Mhz, the next channel is at 62Mhz). That means it can carry up to 8Mhz gross bandwidth without special tricks like quadrature encoding. In order to get more bandwidth, providers send your internet signal over several TV channels simultaneously. (And use other tricks). Of your signal is on channels 100, 101, and 102 there can NOT be another person using channel 102 at exactly the same time. That's difference between passband and broadband.

    In the 1990s, ISDN providers started offering service over three or four channels (broadband) rather than the aingle-channel (baseband) transmission than was available before. Using four channels, broadband ISDN could provide four times the bandwidth - 256Kbs.

    DSL was similar - around the same time it became possible to bond multiple voice channels into a broadband configuration for DSL. The public noticed that the new services were faster, and they were "broadband", whatever the heck that means. Typical consumers started associating the word "broadband" with "fast".

    As I mentioned, 100 Mbps Ethernet is baseband (single-channel), not broadband (multi-channel). Fiber optic is typically baseband, not broadband (remember we're talking per-signal). USB3 is baseband, at 640 Mbps. SATA is baseband, at 6Gbs. Broadband does NOT mean "fast". In fact most of the fastest connections you use are baseband, not broadband. It's just that for a few years in the 1990s the fast connections readily available to consumers happened to be broadband at the time. Not knowing what ISDN even stands for, and not knowing what broadband, passband, and baseband are, many consumers associated the term broadband with fast.

    It would actually be just as accurate to call any high speed internet "DSL". In the same time period in the 1990s, the fastest connections for checking consumers were DSL, and broadband, and 4 Mbps, and copper. Neither "DSL", nor "4 Mbps", nor "copper", nor "broadband" mean "fast". They all have specific meanings. If you want a term that means "high speed", rhe correct term is "high speed". :)

    1. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and yet, the official definition of broadband internet is 25Mbps down, 3Mbps up, i.e. it's defined in terms of throughput. The meaning of words changes over time. In addition to the definition you gave, "broadband" is (and has been for quite a while) also a throughput classification.

    2. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Typical consumers started associating the word "broadband" with "fast".

      And so it means that now. Anything else is as useless as claiming "gay" is not a sexual orientation. But hey /. likes hopeless, lost battles.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I (heart emoji) slashdot.

    4. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For muggles it means that in the US and something else in other countries.

      But raymorris' definition is the same world wide.

    5. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see you have donned your gay apparel.

    6. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Slow clap*

    7. Re:Multiple channels (not baseband or passband) by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Shit... so does that mean fiber isn’t broadband?!

  29. 200 down, 50 up, $40/month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? I have 200Mbps down, 50Mbps up, and it costs around $40 a month.... but then this is Thailand where there is lots of competition in ISPs.

    Just checked the speed, Ookla says 215Mbps down, 104 Mbps up, so maybe they've upgraded it without my asking.

    Agit is a stooge of the ISPs and he won't do anything that would affect his future revolving door job.

    1. Re:200 down, 50 up, $40/month by turkeyfish · · Score: 1

      You've hit precisely when the Trump administration wants to keep the bar for telecommunications low. it inhibits competition in the markets, thereby keeping profits of large, largely monopoly players intact and funneling campaign contributions to the GOP.

    2. Re:200 down, 50 up, $40/month by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Keeping the bar low does one other thing - it allows Pai to claim the majority of Americans have at least 2 ISPs that offer broadband and therefore justify removal of Net Neutrality to allow natural competition, even though by the FCC's own numbers that was just over 50% (like 54 or 56%, I believe). When you jump to 100Mbps, only 24% of households have more than one option.

      What ISPs can (illegally, but it takes time for the DoJ to catch up and the fines often come way to late) do is charge more for people where they have a monopoly and use cutthroat prices to force out competition where they do have competition. This is the legendary Wal-Mart predatory pricing model that Wal-Mart has been sued for using multiple times to eliminate competition and expand.

  30. Think critically about rural broadband by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    There are lots of ways rural areas differ from urban areas, and always will, because no one is willing to pony up the massive amount of subsidies it would take to eliminate the differences:

    * With enough subsidies, you could entice world-class theater companies to perform in Bankston, Iowa, population 25.
    * With enough subsidies, you could entice airlines to provide scheduled passenger service to every grass airstrip.
    * With enough subsidies, you could get a subway built that connects Riverside, Georgia to Funston, Georgia (combined population 461).

    It's fortunate that nobody wants to provide these subsidies, because they would be a terrible use of society's finite resources.

    But for some reason, there seems to be an automatic assumption among many, having done no cost/benefit analysis, that rural broadband is not like the projects mentioned above; that providing whatever subsidies are necessary to make it the equal of urban broadband ought to commence at once.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
    1. Re:Think critically about rural broadband by Calydor · · Score: 0

      Neither of those things mentioned are requirements for functioning in modern society and being able to discuss with your social circles the most basic things they're talking about.

      Internet access is. For all intents and purpose, stable internet with an acceptable minimum speed should be considered a utility on par with electricity and running water.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Think critically about rural broadband by robinsonne · · Score: 1

      The problem is that having internet is getting to be more and more necessary to be able to function in today's society. No, someone living in a rural area doesn't need world-class theater or subway, but they do need options other than: *1-2 MB DSL (if they can get it) * Dialup * Satellite * Nothing

    3. Re: Think critically about rural broadband by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Nonsense. If you really think accessing Facebook so you can see grandmas cat videos is just as important as running water... well... I dunno... that is so utterly fucking stupid I have no idea how to describe just how stupid you are.

    4. Re: Think critically about rural broadband by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need internet access but high speed not really. You do not need streaming video to get by. No government sites that I've ever used required streaming video.

      I just did a refinance and all the internet stuff I used, such as esigning and downloading statements, did not require streaming video.

      I'm not saying it isn't nice and I would not live so far away at the cost of my internet service. Broadband is nothing compared to water and electric.

  31. 100Mbps is superfluous by guacamole · · Score: 1

    I honestly don't know why one need to have 100Mbps down at home except for multiple 4K streams, but we all know that 4K title library is still very limited. The real problem in this country is not that urban dwellers can't get 100Mbit speed (they can, and in fact they can go up to gigabit speeds in most big cities). The problem is that getting even 25 megabit internet is still very hard in rural America.

    1. Re:100Mbps is superfluous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't say 4K is very limited anymore. I have a collection of 328 4K movies currently, and 379 4K TV episodes. That's a fair amount.

      Sure, it's not every title is available in $K, but if it is a decent movie or a TV show then it is likely available in 4K.

    2. Re:100Mbps is superfluous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly... I design networks for a living and it always cracks me up at people bitching about speeds beyond 25 mbps. Certainly you have some power users who do want higher uplink speeds than 3 mbps, I run a Plex server and watch basketball games while I travel for work so having >5 mbps up is nice. But let's face it, 95% of users don't need much at all.

    3. Re:100Mbps is superfluous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now there are people being RAM limited because of running Windows 8 or 10 64bit on 4GB RAM.

      e.g. I'd probably be able to do such things like 1080p video chat in a web browser, CPU and bandwidth are enough, but if this is so RAM hungry I'll swap and make it miserable I just won't do it.

    4. Re:100Mbps is superfluous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To offer some solace on the comparisons with international broadband speeds, the actual speed what comes from the US based services like Youtube over the international connections is entirely different from the speed of the customer connection. I may be having a 100/10 Mbps VDSL2 to residential fiber, but the actual speed to Youtube video servers might vary from hundreds of kbps in a bad day and depending of the video to over 80 Mbps in a good day.

  32. Re: Maybe it's time to take big money out of polit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... they behave as you want

    Other countries don't allow talking-heads to defame ordinary people and publish fake news. They don't even allow a broadcast network (eg. Fox news) to spread propaganda created by 1 political party. In the USA, the rich don't care and an independent voice (SCOTUS) has even decided such abuse of the truth (and thus, the people) is allowed.

    Society is a conflict of the need to fit-in and belong versus 'fuck you, I got mine'. Go too far to the left and nothing gets done. Go too far right and massacres occur, usually of the rich. Most countries spend a lot of money reducing such conflicts. In the USA, such conflict is tolerated because the poor don't kill the rich, they kill each other, thus keeping the rich safe from reality.

  33. and with no network neutrality that can be to hub by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and with no network neutrality that can be to the local hub.

  34. Doomed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet another reason why the USA is doomed.

    As a technology leader, the country needs to be at least in the upper third for speed and availability. In backwards Canada I am currently posting with 150 MB down and a poor 15 MB up link. Many countries leave these speeds in the dust.

    Setting a national standard that is pathetic just isn’t the leadership America needs to exhibit now.

  35. 768kbps/128 will do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do most residential users need 25/3mbps for? For web browsing, moving from 28.8 to 256 kbps was a giant leap. Moving to 768 offered a decent improvement over that. Going 3 mbps was a little faster on some of the big websites. I feel that 768kbps, with loading multiple tabs, is good enough for residential web browsing. Yes, it is horrible for Netflix, which is a luxury in my eyes, but people on slashdot are spoiled on tech.

    1. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Have you ACTUALLY been using the internet lately?

      I'm on a 448/96 kbps connection, and there are websites out there that take several minutes to load because of all the crap simple sites want to throw at eyeballs. That's WITH AdBlock, uBlock and Ghostery running.

      Many residential users like to play games. On this connection, games like Overwatch, Team Fortress 2, even Heroes of the Storm are so laggy as to be literally unplayable - latency easily hits over 2000 ms. That's not to mention when I want to try a new game or a patch is released; on a good day I download 130-150 MB per hour. And of course, I can forget about doing anything else online while downloading.

      I remember getting 256/128 back around the turn of the millennium. I think it was Christmas 2000. And yes, it was awesome fast at the time - but the internet was still geared towards people with 56k modems. Games weren't counted in the tens of GB either, I'm pretty sure the biggest games came on a single DVD back then. Now? You're lucky to find a new (AAA) game that would fit on five DVDs.

      If you never do anything other than browse simple websites and check your email then great, but that is NOT how 'most residential users' use the internet.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should probably add Noscript to the list. And even find something to disable pictures because the option or toggle is not offered in the browser anymore! (it might be more clever nowadays like having an option to not show 3rd party pictures)

    3. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      btw perhaps in 2001 my first DSL was 512/128, which is a lot better than yours.
      I browsed with IE5! (IE6 on the better PC, which had XP, which I hated a bit because of all my DOS games)
      The web was multimedia : midi music on web pages! gif of spinning skull! marquee! Flash objects probably measured in kilobytes. Video streaming existed, at an extremely low bitrate, but most I viewed were downloads, 5MB or such in .avi, .wmv or MPEG 1, even into 2003 or 2004 - videos went to 20MB, 40MB. The high end probably were .mov MPEG4 for trailers, video game teasers, tech demos.

      Nowadays hum 5MB webpages are for real! You'd probably do better visiting a porn site than a news site if you want something browseable.

    4. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Disabling pictures is a bit of a double-edged sword because of how many websites use graphics for all kinds of interfacing - buttons, links, menus, disabling pictures just means loading the page and then loading it again to get the pictures to show.

      I also like reading webcomics while eating lunch, and those kinda need pictures to be shown. <.<

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    5. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I'm stuck in HTLM4 thinking, or should there be a way to load pictures (even one by one).
      You could whitelist your comics site, or blacklist some site where they're unneeded.

      Interestingly, I used to have a browser configuration (private browser...) where buttons were replaced by silly things like "a", "e" or "i" (especially on video players). That's because they use fonts for various buttons.
      That's another option, reject web fonts. Some sites may be really heavy on them (and some devs irresponsible enough to make you load tons of unused glyphs? I remember adding asian/arabic/hebrew/russian languages to Windows 95/98 added hundreds megabytes to the installation. but it was really cool)

      I know I'm doing suggestions that are mostly noise and makes browsing worse.
      I used some 1M/1M wifi (the semi-public that piggybacks on residential routers) and it was pretty decent, outside of "peak hours" when other people use the internet.

    6. Re:768kbps/128 will do by guacamole · · Score: 1

      You idiot, who gives a fuck about what you think is sufficient for broadband. My original post was about the problems of getting broadband in the rural USA. If you think 768kbps will do, then I guess it will do for you, if all you do is post troll posts on Slashdot. Fuck off and die.

    7. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Did you ... read my post at all? You wanted to comment to the guy before me, not me. And then you looked up other things I'd said to continue calling me a troll.

      Maybe you should go check your meds. You forgot to take them these last few days.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    8. Re:768kbps/128 will do by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      Frankly, FUCK broadband for Rural America. You shitnozzles voted the retard that put Pai in charge into office. You get what you get.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
  36. Oh well...Faster than a speeding website. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything fast enough to load Slashdot in a reasonable time is broadband. That's why only fiber will do.

  37. 25/3 is fine-uphill both ways. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The funny thing about my broadband is there's nothing slower than 100/96 available. There should be different tiers for the same reason there's different cars.

  38. 25 x 3 is great by jonwil · · Score: 1

    I have DSL and am currently syncing at 9 down and 1 up and its plenty for even high quality streams and downloads. For me 25 down and 3 up would be more than adequate provided I can actually GET that speeds at the times I want to use it.

    They should keep the definition at 25 x 3 but ban the use of terms like "up to" and require providers to demonstrate that people can actually GET the advertised speed (e.g. via speed tests). For reference, a speed test on my DSL connection shows 7.85 down and 0.87 up (try getting that on a highly congested cable line in peak times when everyone is using it...)

  39. High speed NE broadband... by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    The advertisers will just switch wording to high speed and keep selling snake oil to everyone.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  40. Re:and with no network neutrality that can be to h by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FUD continues... hate to break the news to you, but net neutrality had nothing to do with peering agreements... had no teeth regarding congestion. It simply meant that an ISP had to treat all the bits on the wire equally. It did not mean that it had to provide free access to Netflix or Google to their network to interconnect, nor did it mean that they had to sell them services, nor did it say that they had to upgrade any bandwidth upon threshold triggers or anything.

    So yes kids, even with the wondrous net neutrality rules of yesteryear in place, players like Comcast had the full capabilities of screwing any content provider in favor of another. It was fully within the rules for them to refuse to peer with Hulu and freely peer with Netflix. It also was fully within the rules to influence routing to pull Hulu traffic in via a transit network that Comcast allowed to congest and refused to upgrade, inducing packetloss and negatively affecting user experience.

    It's frustrating watching everyone talk about net neutrality as if they actually have a clue as to the actual details of how Internet routing works. The answer isn't crafting regulation which limits the solutions providers can bring to the marketplace, because they have every incentive to skirt those rules in a game of cat and mouse... and we all know how nimble government is. No, the answer is competition. You probably don't care that you can't buy Coke at Aldi grocery stores, you're only going to find their store brand. You'd be shopping at Aldi because they offer rock bottom prices, if you want Coke you'll head to Walmart or Kroger or countless other grocers. Similarly with ISPs, we only have to look to places where competition is present like at Internet datacenters where you can cross-connect with 10-30 different ISPs for transit. At these places you see the most competitive prices, newest features appearing first (IPv6 for instance), and highest bandwidth. Who in their right mind would stick with Comcast if they actually had a choice?

  41. We think speeds must go up while ... by MxMatrix · · Score: 1

    ... ISP's think prices must go up, so this proposition is just a justification to raise prices.

    When your base product even doesn't need to match 25/3 trump's administration thinks it's just fine. Keep 'em under control is more their goal.
    That's why net neutrality was killed.

    Even the EU uses that as a practice nevertheless what they say.

    --
    Bach says it all.
  42. Why are the internet subscriptions so poor in US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time i read something like this or similar, i wonder why the US has so expensive and slow connections, is it only in rural areas or also in cities? I live in Denmark (in the suburbs of the capital), and i am currently enjoying my 1000/1000 mbit/s connection (which measures at about 800/800 ) with *no* usage cap (and i have managed to use multiple TB/month). Even with our 25% VAT, this connection costs only $46/month (which is paid for by my workplace).

  43. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by mentil · · Score: 2

    Never gonna happen so long as people keep voting for the person who spends the most on political advertising. They don't always win, but they do often enough that they go to the effort of fundraising. If anything, the death of old media will end that. I'm not hopeful that society will suddenly discover critical thinking or independent research.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  44. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by mentil · · Score: 2

    Unfortunately the few candidates that propose voting reforms like that, tend to lose the primaries. Same with the ones who oppose gerrymandering.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  45. Logical Outcome of a Lack of Principles by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 0

    Ajit Pai works for a Republican government, so of course he uses the power of big government to control the market.

    Here in Japan, you canâ(TM)t get less than 40GB up and down for $30 a month (on wireless). Pay $20 more and you get 70GB-plus. In the home, itâ(TM)s 150GB for wired at around $40-$60. Currently weâ(TM)re part of a co-op, so we pay $12 a month for that speed.

    --
    "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    1. Re:Logical Outcome of a Lack of Principles by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Here in Japan, you canÃ(TM)t get less than 40GB up and down for $30 a month

      You are very wrong about something. Either you're talking a data cap, not speed, or you're using the wrong numbers. Because even high speed intra-computer connections (to hard drives/USB3.1 devices) don't get 20% of that speed.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Logical Outcome of a Lack of Principles by Thomas+Charron · · Score: 1

      I'm going to have to blame really, really bad translations on what your saying. We're talking line speed here, not data caps.

      --
      -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
  46. Re: Maybe it's time to take big money out of polit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Name one who has ever been voted out for taking telco pac money. You are naive and delusional if you think D=good, R=bad.

    This is why we do not let children vote. My 9 year old understands politics better than you, though. She is smart enough to say, I dont get to vote because I am only a kid! And then giggles. If you giggled after posting you would go a long way to catching up to her.

  47. many can’t hit what we have now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know a lot of DSL and wireless ISP that claim broadband but doesn’t come close to current minimums. What good is the FCC setting limits?

  48. Re:Why are the internet subscriptions so poor in U by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not like us European countries where ISPs do the same flat rate for all broadband and there are no caps.
    Thanks to US "market forces" the worse your Internet is, the more expensive it will be (because of price gouging and no competition, or because bad Internet connections are more expensive to service).

    There are artificial tiers too but places with gigabit Internet are likely to be the cheapest while a State or county over cucks are paying $150/month for 1.5 Mbps or 3 Mbps down.

  49. Re: Why are the internet subscriptions so poor in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the US is a huuuuuuuuge country. We have cities larger than your entire country.

    Population density in rural areas can be very low and by definition they are far from tech centers. Serving them is expensive and not profitable.

    Our cities have real net. The countryside is not for Internet. It is for hot easy girls.

  50. 25mbps ok for 2008 by Wild_dog! · · Score: 0

    We should have 1gbps now.
    Settling on speeds from a decade ago is not useful any more that saying the 56kbps from '98 would be functional for 2008.

    1. Re:25mbps ok for 2008 by guacamole · · Score: 1

      And what is exactly the point of 1gpbs internet for ALL? 1080p stream on Netflix needs at most 6mbps. 4K stream needs less that four times than that. So what the fuck do you need gigabit for?

    2. Re:25mbps ok for 2008 by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      The future... & Quality of experience

      For right now it would improve overall feel and experience of the web.
      Less waiting, less page load time.
      Higher quality uncompressed video so there would be zero artifacting from lame compressed formats.
      Multiple High quality streams
      Better video conferencing experience.
      Better video gaming.
      Faster downloads of all files.
      Less lag during peak times on ones node.

      The feel of the web would be much more flawless.
      Then there is the evolution of the web and what that will be.
      25mbps was fine 10 years ago, but right now even with my 60mbps service things get laggy during peak times.

      I no more want us to settle for 10 year old tech now than I would have said we should be satisfied with 56kbps back in 2008.
      Let us push for being more advanced than settle for being mediocre.

    3. Re:25mbps ok for 2008 by Thomas+Charron · · Score: 1

      So what your saying is, because there's bad traffic in the morning north on Boston on I93, we can no longer call I93 a highway? This is about what is considered the minimum speed we can call it a broadband connection. NOT the speed which is desirable for your specific usage.

          And I have to say, last year I was streaming 4k video over a 30 Megabit fiber connection, so I dunno what your doing that you'd consider 60 megabit laggy during peak times. Watching 3 4k connections while torrenting movies?

      --
      -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
    4. Re:25mbps ok for 2008 by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I didn't say anything about calling a highway a highway. Highways and Broadband are entirely different entities on scalability.

      It is more about how the cable companies providing the service qualify things. They can say you have a 30mbps connection if you get that at some point during the day. However, once everyone is home and streaming from your node, then things get bogged down on the node you are on and it is unlikely you will be getting anywhere close to 30mbps say at 8-11 at night.

      This has always been the case.

      I was the first one on my node in Ann Arbor when I had a lovely 3mpbs way back in the day, but after a year I had several hundred people on my same node. I rarely could achieve the speed I started with.

      So by saying we should have 1gbps speed, I am talking about on aggregate. I am fairly certain that much like today... when the ISP says you have 1gbps broadband.... it merely means that ideally you have such a speed. However, when everyone in your area is streaming 4k, in the evening, one is highly unlikely to be achieving this.

      Right now with 60mbps I often get choked off on my connection and the lone movie or football game I am watching bogs down or chokes off because the streaming happening on my node is much more than my node can handle.

      It is more of an ISP problem.

      With a 1gbps connection such a thing would be unlikely to happen.

  51. Who cares? by lfp98 · · Score: 1

    Of all the problems with broadband access, bandwidth is the least of them, much less how FCC defines it. The actual problems are lack of competition, lack of transparency in pricing, deceptive advertising and cost per gigabyte of data. I have DSL. OK, I can't stream video in HD. But as far as downloading and submitting forms, reading news, logging comments and in general "participating in the digital economy", it's fine. I hate to agree with Ajit Pai, but on this issue he's right, we should be concentrating on people who have no broadband access, not raising the bandwidth of people who already have a 25/3 connection.

  52. Sure, go ahead, deny this corruption and evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    all you pseudo-cons can't admit greed is evil and that its effects are destroying our democratic institutions. We the people have become economic slaves. We're owned and givin scraps of the upper class table. Get use to it.

  53. Maybe in advertising. Plug parallel in serial port by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Maybe in your mind when you see advertising broadband means "fast", whatever "fast" means to you today. (Recall the actual broadband consumer connections that started the marketing were 192Kbps and 256Kbps).

    For people who actually work with the connections, it's very much like a serial port vs a parallel port. In the 1980s you may have learned that "the parallel port is the fast one", but it won't work to connect a parallel printer to an RS-485 serial port. My RS-485 port is as fast as a Centronics parallel port, but it's the wrong kind of signal.

    Serial means it sends the bits on at a time over one wire. Parallel means it sends the signal over several wires at once, as many bits at a time as there are wires. Broadband similarly sends several bits at a time, over several channels on the same wire. It won't work too plug a broadband device into a baseband port, any more than it'll work to plug a serial device into a parallel port. That's true even if you think that parallel means fast.

  54. Slavewidth: Consume, Never Share! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a shithole country! BIGLY shithole!!

  55. Re: Maybe it's time to take big money out of polit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some day your kid will kill you and giggle.

  56. Re: Maybe it's time to take big money out of polit by turkeyfish · · Score: 1

    Is this the best argument the GOP can use now to pardon itself for its policies with regard to telecommunication services?

    To paraphrase a famous Republican "your argument is a like a thin homeopathic soup made by boiling the shadow of a dead pigeon who died from starvation". Obviously, the GOP has come a long way from the day Lincoln was president.

  57. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by turkeyfish · · Score: 1

    This is precisely why SCOTUS ruled the way it did in Citizen's United. By making money free speech and permitting "dark" untraceable spending on electioneering, it paved the way for large foreign/international corporations to funnel unlimited money into the election process. Now Putin and the Saudis have more to say who gets elected than you do. The irony, of course, is that they are now much better able to fool a sizable fraction of the electorate to vote against their own interests.

  58. A problem with your definition of broadband by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    Thanks for pointing out that "broadband does not mean fast."

    Nonetheless, there's still a problem with your definition of broadband...

    A cable TV channel is 8Mhz wide (if there is a channel at 54Mhz, the next channel is at 62Mhz). That means it can carry up to 8Mhz gross bandwidth without special tricks like quadrature encoding. In order to get more bandwidth, providers send your internet signal over several TV channels simultaneously. (And use other tricks). Of your signal is on channels 100, 101, and 102 there can NOT be another person using channel 102 at exactly the same time.

    The problem is that the 8 Mhz channel-width definition was rather arbitrary. What if a channel had been defined as 24 MHz wide? Then the whole signal would have fit on a single channel, and we'd be back to baseband.

    So I still am unaware of any definition of "broadband" that isn't arbitrary (because it in turn depends on another arbitrary definition).

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  59. Do I have needs that I'm not aware of? by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    they do need options other than: *1-2 MB DSL

    I have 1.5 Mbps DSL (and I don't even live in a rural area). It's enough to get a pretty sharp picture when watching Netflix, so I feel no need to upgrade to something faster.

    Am I missing something? Do I have needs that I'm not aware of? Why the obsession with more speed than one needs?

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  60. Push for equal up and down speeds by pedz · · Score: 1

    My perspective is the reason we have big servers like YouTube and very few actual publishers is because of the asymmetric down and up speeds. Imagine if you had 25mbps up links? I think many more people were start to publish out of their own homes and offices than do presently. After all... that is why we upload to Youtube, Facebook, etc. We have lots of problems to solve but right now, it seems the biggest problem are the huge monopolies that dictate internet content and policy. The internet needs equal peers which implies greater uplink speeds.

  61. I don't want 100 Megabits per second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't want 100 Megabits per second. Bu when I moving in my apartment, this was the only choice at $72/month. My landlord bans all satellite dishes of any kind. Then they bumped to 200 Mps but still at $72/month. Reliable 50 mps is so more that I need. I would that would gladly pay, say, $36/months for that but nooooooo.

    1. Re:I don't want 100 Megabits per second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want 100 Megabits per second. Bu when I moving in my apartment, this was the only choice at $72/month. My landlord bans all satellite dishes of any kind. Then they bumped to 200 Mps but still at $72/month. Reliable 50 mps is so more that I need. I would that would gladly pay, say, $36/months for that but nooooooo.

      Landlord rules keep your beautiful building looking beautiful ... ... and not looking like some Third World trash dump of a slumlord h3llh0l3

  62. It's like serial vs parallel. 100BaseT by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Broadband vs baseband doesn't have anything to with the width of the channel. Baseband, such as 10BaseT and 100BaseT, sends one symbol at a time over one channel. Broadband sends multiple symbols Iver multiple channels, simultaneously.

    It's like a four-lane road with four cars traveling along side each other vs a single-lane road, cars in single file. One lane doesn't become four by making it wider.

    You may be familiar with the difference between serial communication and parallel. Serial has one wire and sends one symbol (typically one bit) at a time down the wire. Parallel typically has 8 wires, each simultaneously carrying a bit, so an entire byte is flowing simultaneously across the 8 separate wires. Broadband uses multiple SEPARATE channels to send multiple symbols (bits) simultaneously, in parallel.

  63. Politicians don't know what Base means in 100BaseT by raymorris · · Score: 1

    The Ethernet standards are called 10BaseT, 100BaseT, etc because it is baseband signaling at those speeds. 100 Mbps Baseband over Twisted pair: 100BaseT.

    100Base-SX is 100Mbps Baseband over Multimode fiber.
    1000BASE-SX is 1000Mbps Baseband over Multimode.

    It's not called 100BroadT, because it's not a broadband signal; it's a baseband signal. That's why it's called 100BASE-whatever.

    > meaning of words changes over time.

    The ignorance of politicians or bureacrats doesn't change the fact that you can't plug an NBase-x device. Into any kind of broadband device and expect it to work.
    You CAN plug a 10Base-T device into a 100Base-T device and they can communicate. They use the same plugs and the same signaling.

    Baseband and broadband use different kinds of plugs because they are completely incompatible AND THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. Try plugging your Docsis coax into a 100Base-T port and see. It still doesn't work, and never will - whether or not Nancy Pelosi understands that.

  64. Fiber is 100Base-FX, 1000Base-SX: BASEband by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Right, fiber standards include 100Base-FX and 1000Base-SX.
    Those are 100Mbps Baseband over multimode fiber and 100bps Baseband over single mode fiber.

    The "base" in the name 100Base-FX tells you it's Baseband, not broadband.

    WiFi is passband - the signal spills over onto other channels.
    192 Kbps ISDN is broadband - it uses three 64Kbs channels in parallel.

  65. Re:Politicians don't know what Base means in 100Ba by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't matter to anyone whether their internet connection is broadband or baseband according to the technical definition. They need more throughput, regardless of these technical details. There is an official (and separate) definition of broadband that makes it a throughput classification, not a matter of modulation. If you're talking politics, the technical definition is the wrong one.

  66. 25/25 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surprised that the big data companies aren't pushing for faster uploading, so they can slurp personal info quicker.

  67. Re:Politicians don't know what Base means in 100Ba by Creepy · · Score: 1

    As AC states, nobody cares HOW the data gets sent and arrives, only that it gets between point A and point B with the correct data at the other end. I could go on all day about how terrible underlying infrastructure technologies like ATM are for data, but at the end of the day it boils down to "did my data get to its destination at 100Mbps?" And that's all technological laymen like Nancy Pelosi care about.

  68. Unfortunately, they write the rules for how it doe by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > As AC states, nobody cares HOW the data gets sent and arrives, only that it gets between point A and point B with the correct data at the other end.

    Those who are responsible for making that happen care. The customers (you) care that it happens correctly. You even care about how much jitter there is on your VoIP flow, and how much latency there is on your games, and the packet loss rate on other applications. You all care about that even if you don't know what the words mean (and you don't care about jitter or latency on your Netflix stream).

    > "did my data get to its destination at 100Mbps?" And that's all technological laymen like Nancy Pelosi care about.

    People who are semi-literate in the most basic facts about networking think they know that the measurement of connection quality is bandwidth. They don't think about latency, jitter, or packet loss, so they are only considering 25% of the quality measurements - and thinking they know what they are talking about. In fact, bandwidth is the LEAST important measurement for real-time connections like VoIP, ssh, or even Google Docs and Slashdot.

    Unfortunately, politicians like Nancy and bureacratic politicians like Wheeler write the rules about how we have to route and queue traffic, without knowing what a queue IS. It's quite a mess.

    Worse, people who read just the first four pages of Networks for Dummies lobby them to enact EXTREMELY stupid, stupid rules like "you have to treat every packet the samst (as if it's 1974 and we're still using hubs as the main piece of network gear)".

  69. Re:Maybe it's time to take big money out of politi by mentil · · Score: 1

    OTOH turning it into a national security/sovereignty issue might be the only way to fix it.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  70. Re:Can't wait..and yet you can by TIMED · · Score: 1

    This anomaly was explained to me by a high-level tech within the bowels of the cable provider's (a big one) service department. He had nothing to sell me, as he was pure tech, helping me to resolve another issue. So he had nothing to lose by revealing the facts. I had pointed out to him that the advertisement stated that I could have any speed I needed, at the time it was needed ("Speeds up to___ on demand!"). Yet, they offered to sell packages at varying speeds, for varying dollar amounts, monthly. Of course, I chose the cheaper option, since I was promised any speed I needed, whenever I needed it. This seemed to me to be a bit odd, but what the heck. He chuckled a bit, then explained that everyone gets the max speed when they first log into a service or website, such as Netflix. But then, after about ten minutes or so, you get throttled back to the speed you pay for. Or less. Suddenly, I understood why Netflix would quickly come on at high-def for about the first ten minutes of a movie, then suddenly paused, and stated that it was 'renegotiating speed', after which 1080p became 720p. Noticeably, every time.

  71. Don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a 100/100Mbps Optical fiber in Brazil and pay 50 dollars a month. I am happy to have left US 20 years ago. Many times I wonder what exactly is the definition of a third or first world country, about many things, including technology. We're well served here and unless you have lived in Brazil for one year (a huge country) you would not understand through all prejudice is out there.

  72. 25 Megabit is a decent minimum speed by Thomas+Charron · · Score: 1

    I would be overjoyed if the entire country had access to a minimum of 25 megabit data connections. I see nothing wrong with this being the minimum speed. Heck, not long ago I had fiber giving me 30.

        Now, it should be noted I'm on Gigabit personally....

    --
    -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
  73. Re:Why are the internet subscriptions so poor in U by Thomas+Charron · · Score: 1

    Gigabit connections in the US are 100+ USD a month, and are only available more urban areas generally. How do they connect to your home?

    --
    -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
  74. Throttling and no Net Neutrality... Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No it will not be an improvement! But they will tell you it is and many will believe the lie!

    GET dd-WRT firmware on a compatible router/firewall device and you will see your real bandwidth in real time, 24/7! Expose the lies!

    HUGE PLUS: VPN tunnels can be installed w/ dd-WRT, thus every device behind your network receives protection. And to really protect your network, put your smart TV and other IoT (Internet of Things) on a separate VLAN so that if they are infected, your PCs, laptops and tablets do NOT get infected!

    100% of cable internet providers throttle to less than the old FCC Definition of Broadband 756 Kbps. Does not matter what the 'UP TO' promise is.

    Net neutrality would prevent a provider from imposing a 'tax' on their lines for higher bandwidth. The Republicans do NOT want net neutrality!

    If you can get Fiber with the same upstream as downstream, ie. 5MB/5MB, 10MB/10MB, 20MB/20MB, 25MB/25MB, 50MB/50MB, 100MB/100MB, 1GB/1GB you have decent bandwidth. But only if they do NOT throttle.

    If Fiber promises a different upstream than downstream (i.e. 50MB/5MB) you can count on them throttling 100%, this is Verizon's Fiber promise and business model.

    Google Fiber gives you synchronous, bi-directional fiber with little or no throttling.

    99% of people would be better off with the lower DSL bandwidth (and cheaper monthly bill) than the more expensive 'UP TO' lie of 100% of the Cable companies.

    Just say NO to Cable if you have an alternative option in your area!