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A Community-Run ISP Is the Highest Rated Broadband Company In America (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: A new survey by Consumer Reports once again highlights how consumers are responding positively to [community-run broadband networks]. The organization surveyed 176,000 Consumer Reports readers on their experience with their pay TV and broadband providers, and found that the lion's share of Americans remain completely disgusted with most large, incumbent operators. The full ratings are paywalled but available here to those with a Consumer Reports subscription. All the usual suspects including Comcast, Charter (Spectrum), AT&T, Verizon, and Optimum once again fell toward the bottom of the barrel in terms of overall satisfaction, reliability, and value, largely mirroring similar studies from the American Customer Satisfaction Index.
One of the lone bright spots for broadband providers was Chattanooga's EPB, a city-owned and utility operated broadband provider we profiled several years back as an example of community broadband done well. The outfit, which Comcast attempted unsuccessfully to sue into oblivion, was the only ISP included in the study that received positive ratings for value. "EPB was the top internet service provider in our telecom ratings two times in the past three years," Christopher Raymond, electronics editor at Consumer Reports told Motherboard. "Consumer Reports members have given it high marks for not only reliability and speed, but also overall value -- and that's a rare distinction in an arena dominated by the major cable companies," he said.
One of the lone bright spots for broadband providers was Chattanooga's EPB, a city-owned and utility operated broadband provider we profiled several years back as an example of community broadband done well. The outfit, which Comcast attempted unsuccessfully to sue into oblivion, was the only ISP included in the study that received positive ratings for value. "EPB was the top internet service provider in our telecom ratings two times in the past three years," Christopher Raymond, electronics editor at Consumer Reports told Motherboard. "Consumer Reports members have given it high marks for not only reliability and speed, but also overall value -- and that's a rare distinction in an arena dominated by the major cable companies," he said.
Can't have communities in charge of stuff. That's communism, that is. And the community making people who use the community's resources pay their part of it is violence, I tell ya. Violence. How dare communities not provide things for free(loaders)?
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
A LOCALLY run, COMMUNITY based ISP, where those that run it, LIVE in the community, are ACCOUNTABLE to the community, actually runs it correctly? Shiver-me-timbers! Wish more cities would do this and kick out the mega-corp-don't-care ISP's.
Ma'am, you're clearly drunk.
America is a continent. Do you mean the US?
Donald Drumpf (teehee, I said "Drumpf" insted of "Trump" because I am an edgelord), I fucking DEMAND that you destroy this communist institution, right the fuck now!
This is like how China is attempting to ruin the USA's economy by using communist tactics to undermine our democracy.
This is unacceptable. You are a servant of the people. You must obey me.
If you do not, I will eat 40 pounds of fried chicken in one sitting, and someone will have to call for an amber lamps when I have a hart attack. When they check my wrisk for a pulse, they will find no hart beats. I will be dead. Because of you, Drumpf. (I did it again! *giggle*)
We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
Socialism always fails. Venezuela Venezuela Venezuela #MAGA
I bet nobody at EBP is getting paid millions of dollars a year, maybe that's why the big companies cant seem to deliver a decent product at a fair price.
Youâ(TM)re of course leaving out that EPB tried to run the network outside of Chattanooga but Comcast did get that prevented, and the funding they got was to run the fiber for their smart power grid, not for the broadband side. So youâ(TM)re technically right, but not entirely.
Google Fiber was actually ranked second. I'm not surprised by that at all. Their customer service has been fantastic, as has the internet and TV. The two times I've had an issue, they had metrics to show exactly what was wrong from their end and their support rep understood the problem and could interact directly with the engineers.
On the other hand, Comcast required more than 3 calls to bury the outside cable line after it was replaced (it was supposed to be buried automatically with a second crew after the tech left, but he didn't file the right paperwork), and when I called customer service, one representative told me he was going to "reset my modem to resolve the issue". Yeah, apparently resetting modems can bury cable lines underground now, folks...
-=Lothsahn=-
Anyone who says local run government internet is better then a cable company and a local government exclusive franchise agreement. Is not seeing that there is little difference in competition.
moron
That's certainly an intelligent response to someone pointing out the realities.
We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
Probably true, but unless you can provide numbers like he just did, I'm going to have to assume that the EPB way isn't going to work for most of the country, unless we all like shelling out huge amounts of money to things we can't have.
As a rural resident of this country, I'm going to assume this is just like all the other fancy things that cities tax the countryside for, while pretending it somehow serves everyone in the state.
Judging by your talking points, I'm sure you're also aware that EPB is prohibited by a state law witten by Comcast and ATT lobbyists from expanding to service people and areas outside of Chattanooga, and that AT&T is receiving $156 million in government funding to provide 10/4-gigabit service in those outlying areas EPB legally can't service. But by all means, keep up the spin and half-truths; the representative for AT&T is running for US Senate now and could surely use your help.
How is it going to be more unsustainable to cut out useless middlemen? ISPs are basically the only companies that the public trusts less than the government, even the most unpopular parts of the government. It's like saying that we can't replace Kevorkian and Dahmer as babysitters.
Also, it seems like those numbers might be bullshit or in some way deceptive. Already, we are seeing sourced replies that the recent they aren't serving other areas is because AT&T and Comcast banned it.
Comcast sucks. Film at eleven.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Silly Troll,
The buildout funds came from over 2Bn in "stimulus package" funding. Many other cities received far more. EPB built out it's Smart Grid tech, and the internet piggybacks on top of that.
It's a bit like the construction of the Interstate system under Eisenhower. You can complain that interstate roads were build using funds from folks that would never use them, but that's a simpleton's argument. The entire country has enjoyed unprecedented road quality and freedom of movement ever since.
The EPB fiber will be in use for decades to come, and the community will enjoy the dependable level of internet service that everyone in this country deserves.
Rather than hate on a success story that could be repeated all over the country, why don't you question why your local community hasn't done the same?
P.S. Count Marsha Blackburn, US congress, as a big part of the opposition to this project, and halting it's expansion into the surrounding areas that EPB serves. Thanks, and we're all voting against you.
after I finish cornholing your mothers
That's what she said!
I live in Texas. I paid for the Chattanooga fiber network.
Do they want me to also pay for running fiber to rural areas of Tennessee? I'm not interested in paying for that. If people in those areas want fiber, they can pay the cost instead of forcing me to pay for their internet service.
You think email is expensive? You realize you don't have to apply stamps to it like mail, right?
The huge gap between what we get here in Australia, to what Chattanooga has rolled out, is amazing.
Chattanooga is offering 1Gbps for $70/mo (I don't see a data cap!) or you can go nuts and get 10Gbp for $300/mo.
Here in Australia, if your area is lucky enough to have workable "high-speed" broadband, it'll cost you $70AUD/mo for 50Mbps (asymm) and that's likely to have a data cap, possibly metered in both directions. A 100Mbps connection will be around $100AUD/mo and depending on the technology behind it, your real throughput may be much less.
America is a continent. Do you mean the US?
Since we're being pedantic, America is two continents.
USF was a fee that was only collected by telecoms who provided qualified buildouts to rural areas.
And while it may have indeed added up to your claimed numbers, it represented a fraction of overall build costs, and was only collected from subscribers.
If the ISP in the story line itemed the costs on the monthly bill, the satisfaction rating would be miserably poor. Especially from all the people who got a monthly charge and didn't have, and couldn't get the service.
It cost $300 million to build EPB's fiber network.
Of that, $111 million, almost half, came from taxpayers outside of Chattanooga - people who can't get the service, but are required to pay for it.
Wow, rebuilding the network every year sure is expensive!!
Oh wait....that's not what's going on....and those ebil tax thefts you describe were subsidies for broadband service available to anyone that wanted to apply for them. It wasn't some terrible plot by Chattanooga that only could benefit Chattanooga.
Well yeah it damn well better be aftee taxpayers already paid for the vast majority of the expense, building the fiber network.
So I have some bad news. There's this thing called the Interstate Highway system.....
USF was a fee that was only collected by telecoms who provided qualified buildouts to rural areas.
Which is all telecoms in the US.
And while it may have indeed added up to your claimed numbers, it represented a fraction of overall build costs, and was only collected from subscribers.
Subscribers who overwhelmingly did not live in those rural areas - that was the point, for the people with existing phone service to subsidize the installation and maintenance of phone service for other people.
Especially from all the people who got a monthly charge and didn't have, and couldn't get the service.
There are exactly zero people in this situation.
The ISP got government subsidies to build out their network. These subsidies were available to anyone, they were not a specific program for Chattanooga. Further, the spending from those subsidies is done. The only people paying bills now are subscribers. And unlike the USF, those subscribers are not subsidizing service for others.
You, dumb, stupid, fucking, ignorant cunt. You fucking morons just can't be told, to remind you fuckwits, just because you don't drive on a road does not mean you shouldn't pay taxes for it because you might get deliveries by it, the fire brigade and police drive on it, the school bus drives on it, and all the teachers, but fuck all that, "I don't use the road, so I shouldn't pay taxes for it, is all that screams in you tiny pin heads", you fucking morons (I include those who modded this stupidity up). The entire community economically benefits, all the businesses, all the services, all the government costs you pay become cheaper, you dumb stupid fucking cunts.
Don't care how you mod this but eventually swearing at these idiots becomes compulsory.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Well, imagine that. Apparently when you are beholden to your customers rather than your shareholders, your customers think you do a better job at it.
...that everybody drives on. Can you explain how I would use Chattanoga's internet service?
No, everyone does not drive on it. You know this.
I will likely never drive on idaho's interstate roads, but they were paid for alongside the interstate roads that I do drive on regularly.
Likewise, I, and many others, have paid for interstate roads near you that we will never drive on.
Are you so selfish as to want to shoot down the whole system just so you can say "I won't pay for anything that helps someone else, even if it helps me", or are you just trolling. Are you even from the USA???
How dare socialism work: Someone please think of the capitalists!
Yeah much better you spend that money on private prisons, facial recognition tech, more cops, and your current shitty internet service.
Every time this discussion comes up, some asshole cries about how he's not interested in paying for it, while turning a blind eye to the massive amount of bullshit he is already paying for (and not benefiting from)
Probably true, but unless you can provide numbers like he just did
Here is a number: 5.
Just like his numbers it isn't backed up by a source and is just propaganda invented to push my agenda.
If you want something more substantial you could read through this document:
$200 Billion Broadband Scandal
It refers to some 528 sources so it might take some time to verify everything but at least it proves his point.
unless we all like shelling out huge amounts of money to things we can't have.
Well, you already did.
It's not like socialized infrastructure is a new thing.
While privatized infrastructure can work, no-one have been able to make it work better than community owned infrastructure.
Thinking that privatized infrastructure will be better is a bit like thinking that a totalitarian communism will work.
It might be theoretically possible but every attempt so far have showed the opposite.
He's probably from the USA. Only libertards in the USA thinks the country was magicked into existence the day they became self-aware and since then everything is just taking away what is rightfully his.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
I am in the EPB's service area, and I have their 1 Gbps service. It's almost never down. That's a major improvement over my last provider (Comcast). There's really nothing more to say than that. 100% customer satisfaction here.
I am disappointed that it took our local power company to do this. AT&T and Comcast had the rights-of-way and the technical know-how to roll out fibre and make a profit doing so (the EPB is making a profit, after all). They are constantly being subsidized by state governments and the Feds to roll out more service or improve existing service, so it's not like they were lacking for funds to do exactly what the EPB did years ago.
What the EPB did right was call in some IT professionals, show them the rights-of-way available (electrical poles, basically), and let them go to work. The fibre initiative came as a part of their plan to convert to a "smart grid" so they can handle billing and outage tracking automatically. Their response times to power outages has improved dramatically since moving to a smart grid. It just made sense to piggy back fibre-to-the-home on top of their smart grid.
Regardless, EPB knew that they would have to make a profit to make the operation successful, so they brought in business people and did it the capitalist way. They're in it for a profit, and it really isn't run as a community project or some kind of communal property. They don't really answer to anyone except for paying customers. There's no public vote on how they operate within the service area. They're constantly being sued to keep them from spreading to other communities.
Sadly, neither Comcast nor AT&T have rolled out 1 Gbps bidirectional service in this area that is cost-competitive with the EPB. They could do it today, easily. They could probably undercut them. But they won't.
Not really.
I don't like morons. Easy way to not have morons is to help pay for other people's schools.
I don't like rotting food. Best way to avoid it is to help pay for other people's infrastructure.
The ongoing costs are negligible per person, per consumer. The initial cost is the only significant quantity and even that, diluted over 340 million people over several years, isn't much.
Actually, it's effectively more people than that, as the Feds get taxes other than income but you're treating all tax as income.
The amount I pay Comcast (who, incidentally, deliver less than a tenth of what I pay for and who have illegal non-compete agreements with other ISPs) in a month is probably more than I've contributed to Chattanooga's Internet since it's inception.
How much would I, personally, have if I'd kept Chattanooga ignorant and isolated? Not much. Not nearly as much as I've gained from them strengthening their economy and thus not only placing less of a drain on society but actually giving back.
Gaining more this way is equivalent to losing the other way. Why would I want to lose, if it's a choice?
I've worked in both laying ISP infrastructure and operating it. It's not difficult or expensive, just tedious. You don't need constant upgrades, just better management and a willingness to not cut corners.
In other words, I know from experience in running infrastructure that most ISPs are defrauding their customers and lying to the politicians and courts about the need to do so.
How is rewarding that behaviour going to pay for my Internet?
What it will do to my Internet is increase restrictions and increase price whilst reducing service. Pay more, get less. No thanks.
I think the Chattanooga experiment should be not only legal in every town and city but encouraged with the stipulation that it's a minimum of 10 gigabits to the home actual rate and five nines reliable.
That way, there's no claim over competition as no ISP offers that. If it's that expensive to do, the taxes would be impossible. If it's not expensive, it's for the ISPs to explain to customers why they're better despite lying about what can be delivered.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
And let's see. $111 million divided by 340 million... 33 cents, on average.
The highest paid person in the US earns something like $23 million a year before bonuses, although I did hear of someone earning $54 million before bonuses.
Somehow, I doubt you paid even the 33 cents.
You probably lose more than that in a year from defective vending machines and misplaced change.
Instead, you could have invested it in a stronger America with (gasp) jobs and stuff.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Log on to a server there.
Next!
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Under LENINISM it would not exist. In communism it 100% definitely would. Catalan would have done it if pre-WW2 had ISPs. They were improving their GDP and health and education until facist spain invaded to stop the "commies".
Ah ... so that Universal Service Fund is being looked after by the FCC. Well, we know there are no worries about THAT, right?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/d...
The same way you use the Interstates thousands of miles away from you: you don’t.
So you want to do more of the same type of thing?
That's great, because I'd like to receive it gigabit internet paid for by someone else. You can pay for my fiber. I'll email you.
Why ME, why should you pay for MY gigabit? Well, why Chattanooga? Why should everyone in the entire country to forced to buy gigabit for a few people in Chattanooga? Is my family less deserving than the people in Chattanooga? My family includes two *black* *women*, so you also get to virtue signal about helping minorities.
My city have a city based network that most buildings are connected to. Most isp are connected to the same network so people can chose wich provider to use. I think that it is a good system that provids decent competition.
We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
You forgot telecom executives, who continue to bring home multi-million dollar bonuses. Our tax money is buying their yachts.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Same way you use Chattanooga's interstate. You physically go there. I took advantage of Chattanooga's internet when I was there two weekends ago. Same way I used Texas' interstate when I was there on business.
It cost $300 million to build EPB's fiber network.
That's good it's saving the community about $100mil/year in reduced power outages. That's only one aspect. The entirety of the network was earned back in savings in 2 years and it's been reduced prices for everyone ever since. Except those outside the range of the service. You can't make am omelet without breaking a few eggs. This is of course ignoring those thousands of new permanent jobs that were created exclusively because of the new fast reliable internet.
In other news, I've never needed to use police. I think we should get rid of the police.
So since it is small, it should not matter?
Taxpayers already footed the bill to create the internet backbone that the ISPs piggy-back off of. Why aren't you complaining about the deadbeat ISPs not paying us back?
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
No, since the cost is so small and the benefit is so large, it should be seen as a worthwhile venture.
Well said. We need more people thinking like this. It is just allowing competition, that is what america was founded on. Anyone who is against this believes in monopolies, it is against the American way.
We are already paying billions regularly to ISPs who do a terrible job. Why not create competition and more local american jobs with local ISPs.
This is a no brainer.
Traditional Republicans should be all over this. Instead I've seen more Republicans against this which is really frustrating. My political party has been letting me down for years, it is so embarrassing. This new class of idiot Republicans is killing me. I wish we could force them to go to another party and take ours back. Sorry for the tangent.
I'm pretty sure I just did. Stamping the word "municipal" on it doesn't make it okay for the Chattanooga ISP to force you to buy gigabit fiber for the selected areas of their city.
Before you disagree, you should be aware this post is a community post, and it's green, so disagree with it at your peril.
$100 million due to power outages, eh?
So that would be a reduction of six full working days at the average business in their service area.
EPB claims the hours of power outages have been cut in half, so it would need to average twelve 8-hour days of blackouts.
If each customer has been having twelve full days of blackouts every year, perhaps the people running EPB should have been fired. If the current average is six full days of outages for each customer every year, perhaps they should still be fired.
Fuck you, you douchebag idiot. Nobody is saying we don't have to pay for roads, police, and teachers. We're capable of understanding community contributions. Yes, I like the roads. Yes, I like the fire department saving my house if it's on fire. However, this contribution should not be distributed equally. Fuck you and your 10 kids. Fuck your semi-truck/construction driving asshole friends who destroy the roads. I'm definitely willing to pay my share. It's just stupid fucks like you who think it's all completely fair and good. Most people who think like that are the fucks who are sucking up the resources and paying nothing. I'm guessing that's you. You fucking prick.
YOU live and work in buildings built by "construction driving asshole friends". YOU eat food, wear clothes, use items (every single day) that were delivered by "semi-truck driving asshole friends". The key word here, is YOU. Build your own home, workplace, recreation buildings, and use items only you grew, chemically synthesized or mined and manufactured and then maybe we'll talk. Unless you're typing this on a potato that you grew yourself and are powering it with your own farts through plastic tubes you created with your own mined silicon and oil, YOU are just as big of a contributer to those "destroyed roads". Keep in mind, they can (and used to) build roads that would easily withstand the stress. I'm guessing one of YOUR asshole friends decided to cut corners and make them cheaper and less resilient for their own profit.
> but since many industries and companies received money
So you're thinking that if you do a LOT of $something_bad, that makes it good?
As a "rural resident of this country", you're talking about being taxed to subsidize urban living? Fucking adorable. And before you go running for the charts showing how urban residents receive more federal money, try not to forget they also pay MORE. How much they receive is less relevant than the comparison to how much they contribute. If it really came down it, you can think these urban areas for your telecom and emergency services, such as they are.
No, the $111 million number GP mentioned was over of the numbers I posted. GP simply said that taxpayer money has also been spent on other questionable things, and then then implied that this particular stupidness is "not relevant" because there have also been other bad things.
GP simply ignored the other $160 million taken from people who don't get the service.
> I have no problem paying 33 cents per city in America
There are 19,354 cities in the US (census.gov).
At 33 cents per person per city, that's $6,386.82 per person.
At 2.58 people per family, your family's bill is $16,478
I don't know about you, but I don't have an extra $16,478 that I want to spend on that. I have more important things to pay for, like my wife's surgeries. You really have $16,478 laying around that yoy have no better use for? You also see no problem with FORCING every other family in country to pay $16,478 to install (not maintain) fiber in the cities?
All of the USF fees paid by everyone in the country subsidize exactly one free Internet connection at my school. That connection is about 1/2 the speed of my $49.95 connection at home through the same provider. Thanks!
Disclaimer, I am a subscriber to EPB.
raymorris is speaking out of his ass for the most part. While his numbers are correct, he is intentionally muddying the waters by passing it off as if the entire state is paying for our world class internet. This is demonstrably untrue. It came from the city and the county, and while the outlying county did not have immediate service, it does now, and it IS self sufficient. That much is as easy to prove as a google search.
Too bad Marsha Blackburn made it illegal for other cities to do it. There is no way any cablecom will ever take our internet away from us.