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A Community-Run ISP Is the Highest Rated Broadband Company In America (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: A new survey by Consumer Reports once again highlights how consumers are responding positively to [community-run broadband networks]. The organization surveyed 176,000 Consumer Reports readers on their experience with their pay TV and broadband providers, and found that the lion's share of Americans remain completely disgusted with most large, incumbent operators. The full ratings are paywalled but available here to those with a Consumer Reports subscription. All the usual suspects including Comcast, Charter (Spectrum), AT&T, Verizon, and Optimum once again fell toward the bottom of the barrel in terms of overall satisfaction, reliability, and value, largely mirroring similar studies from the American Customer Satisfaction Index.
One of the lone bright spots for broadband providers was Chattanooga's EPB, a city-owned and utility operated broadband provider we profiled several years back as an example of community broadband done well. The outfit, which Comcast attempted unsuccessfully to sue into oblivion, was the only ISP included in the study that received positive ratings for value. "EPB was the top internet service provider in our telecom ratings two times in the past three years," Christopher Raymond, electronics editor at Consumer Reports told Motherboard. "Consumer Reports members have given it high marks for not only reliability and speed, but also overall value -- and that's a rare distinction in an arena dominated by the major cable companies," he said.
One of the lone bright spots for broadband providers was Chattanooga's EPB, a city-owned and utility operated broadband provider we profiled several years back as an example of community broadband done well. The outfit, which Comcast attempted unsuccessfully to sue into oblivion, was the only ISP included in the study that received positive ratings for value. "EPB was the top internet service provider in our telecom ratings two times in the past three years," Christopher Raymond, electronics editor at Consumer Reports told Motherboard. "Consumer Reports members have given it high marks for not only reliability and speed, but also overall value -- and that's a rare distinction in an arena dominated by the major cable companies," he said.
Can't have communities in charge of stuff. That's communism, that is. And the community making people who use the community's resources pay their part of it is violence, I tell ya. Violence. How dare communities not provide things for free(loaders)?
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
A LOCALLY run, COMMUNITY based ISP, where those that run it, LIVE in the community, are ACCOUNTABLE to the community, actually runs it correctly? Shiver-me-timbers! Wish more cities would do this and kick out the mega-corp-don't-care ISP's.
We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
Youâ(TM)re of course leaving out that EPB tried to run the network outside of Chattanooga but Comcast did get that prevented, and the funding they got was to run the fiber for their smart power grid, not for the broadband side. So youâ(TM)re technically right, but not entirely.
Google Fiber was actually ranked second. I'm not surprised by that at all. Their customer service has been fantastic, as has the internet and TV. The two times I've had an issue, they had metrics to show exactly what was wrong from their end and their support rep understood the problem and could interact directly with the engineers.
On the other hand, Comcast required more than 3 calls to bury the outside cable line after it was replaced (it was supposed to be buried automatically with a second crew after the tech left, but he didn't file the right paperwork), and when I called customer service, one representative told me he was going to "reset my modem to resolve the issue". Yeah, apparently resetting modems can bury cable lines underground now, folks...
-=Lothsahn=-
Judging by your talking points, I'm sure you're also aware that EPB is prohibited by a state law witten by Comcast and ATT lobbyists from expanding to service people and areas outside of Chattanooga, and that AT&T is receiving $156 million in government funding to provide 10/4-gigabit service in those outlying areas EPB legally can't service. But by all means, keep up the spin and half-truths; the representative for AT&T is running for US Senate now and could surely use your help.
How is it going to be more unsustainable to cut out useless middlemen? ISPs are basically the only companies that the public trusts less than the government, even the most unpopular parts of the government. It's like saying that we can't replace Kevorkian and Dahmer as babysitters.
Also, it seems like those numbers might be bullshit or in some way deceptive. Already, we are seeing sourced replies that the recent they aren't serving other areas is because AT&T and Comcast banned it.
Comcast sucks. Film at eleven.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The difference isn't supposed to be competition, it's that we've removed conflicts of interest. Cooperatives/public utilities work very well for domains where you just throw labor at problems, and ISP infrastructure fits that bill.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The huge gap between what we get here in Australia, to what Chattanooga has rolled out, is amazing.
Chattanooga is offering 1Gbps for $70/mo (I don't see a data cap!) or you can go nuts and get 10Gbp for $300/mo.
Here in Australia, if your area is lucky enough to have workable "high-speed" broadband, it'll cost you $70AUD/mo for 50Mbps (asymm) and that's likely to have a data cap, possibly metered in both directions. A 100Mbps connection will be around $100AUD/mo and depending on the technology behind it, your real throughput may be much less.
It cost $300 million to build EPB's fiber network.
Of that, $111 million, almost half, came from taxpayers outside of Chattanooga - people who can't get the service, but are required to pay for it.
Wow, rebuilding the network every year sure is expensive!!
Oh wait....that's not what's going on....and those ebil tax thefts you describe were subsidies for broadband service available to anyone that wanted to apply for them. It wasn't some terrible plot by Chattanooga that only could benefit Chattanooga.
Well yeah it damn well better be aftee taxpayers already paid for the vast majority of the expense, building the fiber network.
So I have some bad news. There's this thing called the Interstate Highway system.....
USF was a fee that was only collected by telecoms who provided qualified buildouts to rural areas.
Which is all telecoms in the US.
And while it may have indeed added up to your claimed numbers, it represented a fraction of overall build costs, and was only collected from subscribers.
Subscribers who overwhelmingly did not live in those rural areas - that was the point, for the people with existing phone service to subsidize the installation and maintenance of phone service for other people.
Especially from all the people who got a monthly charge and didn't have, and couldn't get the service.
There are exactly zero people in this situation.
The ISP got government subsidies to build out their network. These subsidies were available to anyone, they were not a specific program for Chattanooga. Further, the spending from those subsidies is done. The only people paying bills now are subscribers. And unlike the USF, those subscribers are not subsidizing service for others.
You, dumb, stupid, fucking, ignorant cunt. You fucking morons just can't be told, to remind you fuckwits, just because you don't drive on a road does not mean you shouldn't pay taxes for it because you might get deliveries by it, the fire brigade and police drive on it, the school bus drives on it, and all the teachers, but fuck all that, "I don't use the road, so I shouldn't pay taxes for it, is all that screams in you tiny pin heads", you fucking morons (I include those who modded this stupidity up). The entire community economically benefits, all the businesses, all the services, all the government costs you pay become cheaper, you dumb stupid fucking cunts.
Don't care how you mod this but eventually swearing at these idiots becomes compulsory.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Well, imagine that. Apparently when you are beholden to your customers rather than your shareholders, your customers think you do a better job at it.
...that everybody drives on. Can you explain how I would use Chattanoga's internet service?
Two large continental plates and a a small plate (the Caribbean plate) locked inbetween.
Probably true, but unless you can provide numbers like he just did
Here is a number: 5.
Just like his numbers it isn't backed up by a source and is just propaganda invented to push my agenda.
If you want something more substantial you could read through this document:
$200 Billion Broadband Scandal
It refers to some 528 sources so it might take some time to verify everything but at least it proves his point.
unless we all like shelling out huge amounts of money to things we can't have.
Well, you already did.
It's not like socialized infrastructure is a new thing.
While privatized infrastructure can work, no-one have been able to make it work better than community owned infrastructure.
Thinking that privatized infrastructure will be better is a bit like thinking that a totalitarian communism will work.
It might be theoretically possible but every attempt so far have showed the opposite.
He's probably from the USA. Only libertards in the USA thinks the country was magicked into existence the day they became self-aware and since then everything is just taking away what is rightfully his.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
I am in the EPB's service area, and I have their 1 Gbps service. It's almost never down. That's a major improvement over my last provider (Comcast). There's really nothing more to say than that. 100% customer satisfaction here.
I am disappointed that it took our local power company to do this. AT&T and Comcast had the rights-of-way and the technical know-how to roll out fibre and make a profit doing so (the EPB is making a profit, after all). They are constantly being subsidized by state governments and the Feds to roll out more service or improve existing service, so it's not like they were lacking for funds to do exactly what the EPB did years ago.
What the EPB did right was call in some IT professionals, show them the rights-of-way available (electrical poles, basically), and let them go to work. The fibre initiative came as a part of their plan to convert to a "smart grid" so they can handle billing and outage tracking automatically. Their response times to power outages has improved dramatically since moving to a smart grid. It just made sense to piggy back fibre-to-the-home on top of their smart grid.
Regardless, EPB knew that they would have to make a profit to make the operation successful, so they brought in business people and did it the capitalist way. They're in it for a profit, and it really isn't run as a community project or some kind of communal property. They don't really answer to anyone except for paying customers. There's no public vote on how they operate within the service area. They're constantly being sued to keep them from spreading to other communities.
Sadly, neither Comcast nor AT&T have rolled out 1 Gbps bidirectional service in this area that is cost-competitive with the EPB. They could do it today, easily. They could probably undercut them. But they won't.
Not really.
I don't like morons. Easy way to not have morons is to help pay for other people's schools.
I don't like rotting food. Best way to avoid it is to help pay for other people's infrastructure.
The ongoing costs are negligible per person, per consumer. The initial cost is the only significant quantity and even that, diluted over 340 million people over several years, isn't much.
Actually, it's effectively more people than that, as the Feds get taxes other than income but you're treating all tax as income.
The amount I pay Comcast (who, incidentally, deliver less than a tenth of what I pay for and who have illegal non-compete agreements with other ISPs) in a month is probably more than I've contributed to Chattanooga's Internet since it's inception.
How much would I, personally, have if I'd kept Chattanooga ignorant and isolated? Not much. Not nearly as much as I've gained from them strengthening their economy and thus not only placing less of a drain on society but actually giving back.
Gaining more this way is equivalent to losing the other way. Why would I want to lose, if it's a choice?
I've worked in both laying ISP infrastructure and operating it. It's not difficult or expensive, just tedious. You don't need constant upgrades, just better management and a willingness to not cut corners.
In other words, I know from experience in running infrastructure that most ISPs are defrauding their customers and lying to the politicians and courts about the need to do so.
How is rewarding that behaviour going to pay for my Internet?
What it will do to my Internet is increase restrictions and increase price whilst reducing service. Pay more, get less. No thanks.
I think the Chattanooga experiment should be not only legal in every town and city but encouraged with the stipulation that it's a minimum of 10 gigabits to the home actual rate and five nines reliable.
That way, there's no claim over competition as no ISP offers that. If it's that expensive to do, the taxes would be impossible. If it's not expensive, it's for the ISPs to explain to customers why they're better despite lying about what can be delivered.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
And let's see. $111 million divided by 340 million... 33 cents, on average.
The highest paid person in the US earns something like $23 million a year before bonuses, although I did hear of someone earning $54 million before bonuses.
Somehow, I doubt you paid even the 33 cents.
You probably lose more than that in a year from defective vending machines and misplaced change.
Instead, you could have invested it in a stronger America with (gasp) jobs and stuff.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Log on to a server there.
Next!
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Ah ... so that Universal Service Fund is being looked after by the FCC. Well, we know there are no worries about THAT, right?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/d...
The same way you use the Interstates thousands of miles away from you: you don’t.
So you want to do more of the same type of thing?
That's great, because I'd like to receive it gigabit internet paid for by someone else. You can pay for my fiber. I'll email you.
Why ME, why should you pay for MY gigabit? Well, why Chattanooga? Why should everyone in the entire country to forced to buy gigabit for a few people in Chattanooga? Is my family less deserving than the people in Chattanooga? My family includes two *black* *women*, so you also get to virtue signal about helping minorities.
We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
You forgot telecom executives, who continue to bring home multi-million dollar bonuses. Our tax money is buying their yachts.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Taxpayers already footed the bill to create the internet backbone that the ISPs piggy-back off of. Why aren't you complaining about the deadbeat ISPs not paying us back?
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
No, since the cost is so small and the benefit is so large, it should be seen as a worthwhile venture.
There is exactly one country on the face of the earth with the word "America" in it (there is more than one "United States" - look it up). When someone refers to a country by the name, you should be able to figure out which one it is.
I live in Texas. I paid for the Chattanooga fiber network.
Do they want me to also pay for running fiber to rural areas of Tennessee? I'm not interested in paying for that. If people in those areas want fiber, they can pay the cost instead of forcing me to pay for their internet service.
So Texas gets no federal funds? Oh, you do. I hope you are saying thanks to all those people in Chattanooga that helped pay for your infrastructure.
I'm pretty sure I just did. Stamping the word "municipal" on it doesn't make it okay for the Chattanooga ISP to force you to buy gigabit fiber for the selected areas of their city.
Before you disagree, you should be aware this post is a community post, and it's green, so disagree with it at your peril.
This is capitalism working (and a rare example of its defeating corporatism). This is allowing actual competition in an industry, aka the free market. Imagine if government- and law-sanctioned broadband monopolies disappeared and there were *more of this competition* and you would be imagining capitalism. I dare say folks might enjoy that (especially if there were a few more companies like this offering service in the region so that you could buy service that more suits your tastes and/or budget).
$100 million due to power outages, eh?
So that would be a reduction of six full working days at the average business in their service area.
EPB claims the hours of power outages have been cut in half, so it would need to average twelve 8-hour days of blackouts.
If each customer has been having twelve full days of blackouts every year, perhaps the people running EPB should have been fired. If the current average is six full days of outages for each customer every year, perhaps they should still be fired.
Fuck you, you douchebag idiot. Nobody is saying we don't have to pay for roads, police, and teachers. We're capable of understanding community contributions. Yes, I like the roads. Yes, I like the fire department saving my house if it's on fire. However, this contribution should not be distributed equally. Fuck you and your 10 kids. Fuck your semi-truck/construction driving asshole friends who destroy the roads. I'm definitely willing to pay my share. It's just stupid fucks like you who think it's all completely fair and good. Most people who think like that are the fucks who are sucking up the resources and paying nothing. I'm guessing that's you. You fucking prick.
YOU live and work in buildings built by "construction driving asshole friends". YOU eat food, wear clothes, use items (every single day) that were delivered by "semi-truck driving asshole friends". The key word here, is YOU. Build your own home, workplace, recreation buildings, and use items only you grew, chemically synthesized or mined and manufactured and then maybe we'll talk. Unless you're typing this on a potato that you grew yourself and are powering it with your own farts through plastic tubes you created with your own mined silicon and oil, YOU are just as big of a contributer to those "destroyed roads". Keep in mind, they can (and used to) build roads that would easily withstand the stress. I'm guessing one of YOUR asshole friends decided to cut corners and make them cheaper and less resilient for their own profit.
Yet another example of someone arguing for socialism that doesn't actually understand what socialism is. Shocking -.-
> but since many industries and companies received money
So you're thinking that if you do a LOT of $something_bad, that makes it good?
Imagine if government- and law-sanctioned broadband monopolies disappeared and there were *more of this competition* and you would be imagining capitalism.
You can imagine it all you want, but when the barrier to entry is that high (building a fiber network that covers an entire city is expensive), how many competitors are you really going to get?
No, the $111 million number GP mentioned was over of the numbers I posted. GP simply said that taxpayer money has also been spent on other questionable things, and then then implied that this particular stupidness is "not relevant" because there have also been other bad things.
GP simply ignored the other $160 million taken from people who don't get the service.
> I have no problem paying 33 cents per city in America
There are 19,354 cities in the US (census.gov).
At 33 cents per person per city, that's $6,386.82 per person.
At 2.58 people per family, your family's bill is $16,478
I don't know about you, but I don't have an extra $16,478 that I want to spend on that. I have more important things to pay for, like my wife's surgeries. You really have $16,478 laying around that yoy have no better use for? You also see no problem with FORCING every other family in country to pay $16,478 to install (not maintain) fiber in the cities?