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Debian Linux Turns 25 (betanews.com)

Posted by msmash on from the long-long-journey dept.

BrianFagioli writes: Debian is one of the most important open source projects ever. The Debian Linux operating system is extremely popular in its own right, but also, it is used as the base for countless other distributions. Ubuntu, for instance -- one of the most-used distros -- is Debian-based. Even Linux Mint, which is based on Ubuntu, also has a Debian edition. Not to mention, Raspbian -- the official Raspberry Pi OS -- which is based on Debian too.

Today, Debian is celebrating a very important milestone -- a 25th birthday! Yes, it is seriously that old -- its development was announced on August 16, 1993. When the late Ian Murdock announced 25 years ago in comp.os.linux.development, the imminent completion of a brand-new Linux release, [...] the Debian Linux Release', nobody would have expected the 'Debian Linux Release' would become what's nowadays known as the Debian Project, one of the largest and most influential free software projects. "Its primary product is Debian, a free operating system (OS) for your computer, as well as for plenty of other systems which enhance your life. From the inner workings of your nearby airport to your car entertainment system, and from cloud servers hosting your favorite websites to the IoT devices that communicate with them, Debian can power it all," says Ana Guerrero Lopez of Debian. Further reading: Slackware, Oldest Actively Maintained GNU/Linux Distribution, Turns 25.

56 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Debian is an amazing distribution. Thanks to everyone who has worked on it over the years.

    RIP Ian.

    1. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And special thanks to Lennart Poettering for ruining it.

  2. Thanks to all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Thank you Ian, Deb, and the countless volunteers for the years of hard work. You've changed an industry.

    1. Re:Thanks to all... by pintpusher · · Score: 2

      Yes yes! Thank you thank you!

      --
      man, I feel like mold.
  3. yeesh by guygo · · Score: 2

    now I really DO feel old. 25? Oy!

  4. Debian is a huge time saver. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the things I _hate_ about computing is the need to constantly upgrade. Upgrade your OS from this version to that version. I just want the damn thing to work and I don't want to screw around with it. So many years ago when I found out Debian allows you to just upgrade the system in place from one release to another, I was ready to see how well it worked.

    At home I have a couple different servers, a mix of Debian and CentOS. The Debian server is my file/print/Plex server, that I've been running for about 10 years now. It's gone through multiple installs of Debian. apt-get dist-upgrade has worked with only a couple minor flaws for 10 years now, and made it so I don't have to spend my afternoon every 2-3 years recreating a server. It just works!

    So thanks Debian for making my life easier.

    1. Re:Debian is a huge time saver. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Ditto. I am still using oldstable, Jessie v8.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  5. Hip, hip ... by vrassoc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am proud to say that Debian has been my distro of choice for 20 of those 25 years.

    Happy, happy birthday, Debian! Here's to 25 more!

    1. Re:Hip, hip ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Debian died for me when it went to SystemD. I dropped it like a box of rocks.

    2. Re:Hip, hip ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Devuan

    3. Re:Hip, hip ... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Only two years less here, after a couple years in RPM hell. My first Debian install was Potato, and that install is still running today, continuously upgraded to buster and having been moved to a bigger disk four or five times, once needing a ddrescue. Some of those version upgrades were a lot less than smooth, needing fiddling with low level dpkg details, even including editing apt db files a couple times. Upgrading is a lot more robust these days.

      Today, that server is still 32 bit, it was migrated to 64 bit by copying just the application config files and the 64 bit server took over. The 32 bit original is still running in a new role as a storage server. Just no reason to kill it.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:Hip, hip ... by swillden · · Score: 1

      I am proud to say that Debian has been my distro of choice for 20 of those 25 years.

      Happy, happy birthday, Debian! Here's to 25 more!

      Hear, hear!

      I haven't been using Debian as long as you (only ~20 years), but I'm happy to say it's still my OS of choice... and the one I'm using to type this post.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  6. Donation link. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Debian is one of the good guys. In a world where more and more software scrapes your data and monetizes you out the rear, Linux distros like Debian are trying to hold the line of keeping YOU in control of your computing experience, rather than a huge multinational in control.

    I'm sure someone will point out they are not perfect, and that is true, but compared to Windows, Android, iOS, and others, Debian does a damned fine job of keeping your computer, your computer.

    I donate to them once a quarter, to try to tilt the balance away from user-hostile software, hyper-monetization, and corporate spyware everywhere.

    Donatiions.

    1. Re:Donation link. by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

      Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for the donations link!

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  7. RIP Ian Murdock by greenwow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And think you for all of your contributions.

    1. Re: RIP Ian Murdock by schklerg · · Score: 2

      The story of his death still seems weird to me. His distro is still my favorite

      --
      Be Excellent To Each Other
    2. Re: RIP Ian Murdock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I believe he was abused and persecuted by the police. I also believe he killed himself.

  8. Re:Lixux, son of Unix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    And on Nov. 3, UNIX will turn 47.

    Yes... and on Jan 19th, 2038, it turns -68!

  9. Apt and the App store. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    I have always found it interesting the hatrid towards other OS's App stores for Apple and Microsoft, While Apt is in essence is the same concept but is warmly loved.

    A location where you can get trusted application, setup to easily install on your environment.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Apt and the App store. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have always found it interesting the hatrid towards other OS's App stores for Apple and Microsoft, While Apt is in essence is the same concept but is warmly loved.

      People love apt-get and hate the app store because apt-get does not attempt to lock you into anything. There is no 30% cut of anything being skimmed off by middlemen. There is no iOS-like "put the user in a jail cell and tell them what's acceptable to run".

      It's the difference between a tool that preserves your freedom while making your life easier, and a tool that tries to lock you into an ecosystem and control your behavior for the benefit of your corporate overlords.

    2. Re:Apt and the App store. by skids · · Score: 1

      Try to add an additional alternate to apple store or google play and have it treated on an equal footing with the mainline... in Debian it's as easy as adding some repo tags/keys.

      That's one critical difference.

      --
      Someone had to do it.
    3. Re:Apt and the App store. by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Those that do not understand Free software repositories are condemned to reinvent them, poorly.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:Apt and the App store. by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

      People love apt-get and hate the app store because apt-get does not attempt to lock you into anything. There is no 30% cut of anything being skimmed off by middlemen.

      Well 30% of $0 doesn't work out to much, Debian doesn't want paid apps in their repository. Meanwhile "people" leave $60 billion dollars in Apple and Google's app store. I like open source, but if you want/need some kind of COTS software open source doesn't like you. Not even Steam managed to turn that ship around, Linux is 0.5% of their market and dropping. It's a smashing success for cloud servers where you can just clone up a thousand instances without worrying about licensing but on the desktop it's still 1% hippies and tin foil hats. I'll be joining you once Win7 goes out of support, but sigh... it's not exactly with great love anymore.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re: Apt and the App store. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Well no not really. The counter argument is based on only one app store iOS. There is one for Mac, that you are not so locked in. And Microsofts and Google has one as well which isn't as stringent as iOS is.

      Most apt repositories are for Open Source software so they are not charging for it. If you are going to be charging for your software, why shouldn't the store take a cut of your profits? They are putting your software in a place for millions of people can see, they are handling a bunch of billing features, using their platform to push out updates.

      So if you are going to charge $1.00 for the software paying Apple 0.30 is actually a good deal.
      If you had your own store your credit card fees would probably be more then what they paid for it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Apt and the App store. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with the concept of the app store. There's is a problem with rent-seeking, and exerting excessive control and censorship on your platform.

      Apt does none of that, most critically because apt is not an app store. It's an open package manager which you can link to any repository you damn well please.

      Likewise you don't see people complaining about F-Droid either.

    7. Re:Apt and the App store. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Well 30% of $0 doesn't work out to much

      Indeed it doesn't when you ignore the initial fee. 30% is just on the profits, it doesn't get you into the app store.

    8. Re:Apt and the App store. by gosand · · Score: 1

      I like open source, but if you want/need some kind of COTS software open source doesn't like you.

      I think you got that backwards... COTS doesn't like you if you use open source, especially if you tie yourself to MS and/or Apple.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  10. Important milestone? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    An important milestone is something like definitively switching to systemd and excluding any alternatives but 25 years is merely an arbitrary slice of time.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Important milestone? by neilo_1701D · · Score: 4, Insightful

      An important milestone is something like definitively switching to systemd and excluding any alternatives but 25 years is merely an arbitrary slice of time.

      Holy smoke that's a scary graph.

      If our issue open / closed list looked like that for that long, we'd be out on our ear and the client moved on to something / someone else!

    2. Re:Important milestone? by F.Ultra · · Score: 2

      Until you realise that a large part of the "issues" are feature requests and questions. In GitHub everything is an issue.

    3. Re:Important milestone? by thegarbz · · Score: 1, Informative

      It would look scary until you actually look at the bug reports, or are they pull requests, or are they silly opinions, or even general bitching. I don't even know anymore since the bug tracker on systemd is a cesspool or irrelevant garbage with a few serious bugs actually mixed in.

      That's before you consider scope. On the front page of the bug tracker there are only two bugs related to systemd rather than optional extra software that has been only recently developed and won't hurt your system if you leave out.

      Mind you it's easier to sit and complain rather than contribute to solving the problem.

  11. Thank you, developers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I stand and applaud for those who have contributed to Debian for 25 years. Thank you!

    (from someone who first ran Consensys SVR4 Unix on a 386 before Linux arrived))

    1. Re:Thank you, developers! by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I ran Coherent on a 286

      (with a 6 -> 10 MHz Turbo button. That got it up to 1 MIPS)

  12. And then... by AlanObject · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And then systemd arrived.

    1. Re: And then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed, long live devuan, rip debian.

    2. Re:And then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      And then systemd arrived.

      And then Debian was forked to make Devuan.

    3. Re:And then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Just face it, we're stuck with systemd for the foreseeable future. People who whinge about systemd and saying they're going to stop using Linux or whatever, clearly do not deal with Linux systems on a professional basis. As a professional, you're likely going to get stuck with systemd whether you like it or not. Best to just learn how to deal with it, even if it is a flaming pile of poo.

    4. Re:And then... by BlackOverflow · · Score: 1

      That's the spirit! Just roll over and take it, instead of advocating for a better future.

    5. Re:And then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do hate this defetist attitude. You use Debian without systemd (I do). You can turn to Devuan Or Slackware. In any case, if you characterize yourself as "professional", contribute to one of those options if you want to keep systemd-free Linux distros viable, instead of whining.

      That's how it works around here.

    6. Re:And then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not about rolling over on it, it is facing reality. If you've got to deal with RHEL/CentOS 7 servers, you're stuck with it. What are you going to do, go and install sysvinit on your production servers? No, you're just going to deal. Same with Ubuntu and Debian systems. I'm a sysadmin, it's my job to understand how to configure and operate these systems. In this case, it means learning and understanding systemd.

      Don't get me wrong, I think systemd is a solution looking for a problem. I run Devuan on my own systems.

      I leave my anti-systemd zealotry at the front door of the office.

    7. Re:And then... by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, what's this "Debian turns 25" crap? Debian died the moment they picked up systemd. At least to me. Devuan all the way (when forced to use Linux). Meanwhile, FreeBSD still feels 100x better to administer and tinker with versus Linux. Linux is strong in proprietary vendor support for things like 3D graphics cards and a few other edge cases like Infiniband cards. However, overall, the secret is getting out that Linux has lost it's cool and gone corporate long ago, completed by it's stunning stupidity in design due to Lennart Pottering style missteps. Going to conventions, talking at trade shows, hanging out at the hacker & maker spaces, yep.... my informal poll suggests Linux is best for corporate bean counting assholes who need to run RHEL to run Oracle or else Chinese crap-hardware makers who can make that shitty Broadcom or Marvell hardware function for 10 minutes without locking up using Linux. The cool kids moved on to BSD just like they always have (I remember the same phenomenon in the 1990s, too). Linux used to at least make good training wheels, and have better package management, but no longer. It's become too polluted with crap that a sane IT pro will just have to unlearn or be forever cursed and burdened with meanwhile BSD has become too excellent to ignore.

    8. Re:And then... by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A lot of people are stuck in the same situation as you. I take support calls for systemd all the fucking time from them. I'd say about 40% of my Linux calls are systemd-related now. Before 2015 there was maybe one call a year where someone had horked their init scripts or whatever. I've had to learn systemd quite well to support it. Before I knew Kerberos, I was a bit afraid and put off by it. However, once I learned it I could sorta-kinda understand why they made it so over-complicated. I still don't like Kerberos, but after learning it thoroughly, I do like it more than I used to. With Systemd it's been exactly opposite. The more I learn about it (and that's a lot at this point) the more I think it's the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen. Pulseaudio is also amazing in that it's everywhere in the distros, but it still sucks so badly it's amazing. GNOME used to be a laughingstock. Now it's just an outrage and an unwelcome influence (spawning DBUS, Systemd, Pulseaudio, and other horrors) on Linux. Nonetheless, I get it. You can't make arbitrary decisions about your company infrastructure. Just understand that those of us who consult and professionally support Linux thank you sincerely for staying with a systemd-distro. It keeps us in the $$$.

    9. Re:And then... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Debian died the moment they picked up systemd.

      Yeah look how dead it isn't.

    10. Re: And then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And despite all the hate It gets I only had good experiences with SystemD.

  13. Debian can power it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    > From the inner workings of your nearby airport to your car entertainment system, and from cloud servers hosting your favorite websites to the IoT devices that communicate with them, Debian can power it all

    That is, Debian can capture everything except for the home computer market. And that's sad.

    With more and more people claiming that what OS you're running is irrelevant nowadays, you'd think it would've made some headway.

    1. Re:Debian can power it all by Tyger-ZA · · Score: 1

      With more and more people claiming that what OS you're running is irrelevant nowadays, you'd think it would've made some headway.

      Knowing that Windows comes pre installed and most people lack the desire and/or ability to fuck with their PC because "It's already working",

      I would not expect Linux to make any headway on the desktop now, or at any point in the future unless it comes pre installed.

      The only consumer platform where Linux is dominant right now is on phones, because it came pre installed with Android.

      Typing this on Linux Mint because I replaced Windows the day I got this laptop.

      If a majority of "average" PC users were to do the same, all the spyware shit in Win10 would likely be disabled by MS in a matter of weeks.

      And you know that's not going to happen.

  14. Debian is better than... by asackett · · Score: 1

    Once upon a time my wife hated it when I downloaded five floppies worth of Debian over a 28.8kbps dialup using the only telephone line we had.

    22 years later, Debian is still here but that wife is not. :-)

    --

    Warning: This signature may offend some viewers.

    1. Re:Debian is better than... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      The "Deb" of Debbie and Ian is long gone too.

    2. Re:Debian is better than... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I actually missed that... so he got drunk, broke into a place, and then assaulted the police officer? then after being jailed got all pissy he was being "abused" and hung himself?

  15. My first ever distro by rnws · · Score: 1

    Debian was the first ever distro I installed - on a 486 DX2 66 with VL-bus graphics. I had to use DPKG for the first time and even compiled the X Window System on it! This was my first task as a new hire at an ISP, "You see that box of old motherboards and parts? You have to build your own PC and put Debian on it." (Having only recently learned of this Linux thing.) The new people started on the lowest-end machines built by themselves from scratch out of leftover parts. As you worked there you got to get upgrades. A a tough baptism but worth it for the valuable experience gained.

    25 years eh? Damn, I feel old, (and very nostalgic).

    THANK-YOU to the Debian project and every maintainer and contributor over the last 25 years, you have helped change the world.

  16. Re:Less relevant than ever. by asackett · · Score: 2

    I'd expect that history books about computing would more than passingly mention the internet, where Linux and BSD have always run the majority of servers.

    --

    Warning: This signature may offend some viewers.

  17. Update jokes by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    Now we need to update jokes about Debian containing 24^H^H25 years old packages.

  18. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" was 1994 by gerald.edward.butler · · Score: 2

    I've been using Linux exclusively on all of my own computers since 1994. I've never owned any computer that ran a Microsoft or Apple OS as it's primary OS. Ever. I went from TRS-80/Commodore/Atari to DOS-based IBM PC, to OS/2 Warp in the '92/'93 time-frame, then Linux in '93/'94 and never looked back. The Year of the Linux Desktop came a long time ago.

  19. Getting ready to switch to Devuan.. by gosand · · Score: 1

    I have been on Mint XFCE for many years now, and systemd has been poking me with a stick, trying to get me to leave.
    I wanted to try out Devuan, so I fired up a kvm and installed it. I had a list of things that I have setup now that I wanted to make sure worked and I got them up and running in a relatively short amount of time. I would have to do these things if I reinstalled Mint anyway. (with the latest release, I don't get a good feeling that I can do it trouble-free as I have in the past) I hadn't played with vms for a while, and had always used Virtualbox. I have to say, using kvm/virsh was quite pleasant and I was very happy with the performance of it.

    My plan was to just get a 64 or 128 GB SSD and install Devuan on it, then keep my current disk setup as-is as a backup boot option. I just haven't pulled the trigger yet because I haven't dived into the SSD pool yet and want to do some more research on the purchase. And I read that prices may plummet in the coming months.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  20. Re:And then... Hm.. not my take... by gosand · · Score: 1

    I've been using Linux user for 20 years now, from RedHat (5.2) / Mandrake / *buntus / Mint. I have been looking at systemd-free options for a while now, and seriously considered FreeBSD. I read lots of blog posts, pros/cons, and I even read the FreeBSD Handbook! I get that it can be very stable and can meet nearly all my needs, but it just can't meet them all. I am not a hardcore gamer, but I've bought quite a few Humble Bundles over the years and have enjoyed many of the games. I have an Nvidia video card (oh horror!). It was a few months ago that I did my analysis, but there were a few gaps and quite a few more potential gaps.

    I get it - for hardcore system admins, it's probably pretty awesome. But I am not. I am just a long-time linux user who (obviously) admins my own stuff. Since this thread is about Debian, it is what has spoiled me.. with all of its apt magic!! I don't want to have to go back to compiling packages to get them to work. I still do on occasion if I really need to, but I really can't spend hours on trying to figure out dependencies and troubleshooting build errors.

    Maybe FreeBSD is somewhere in my future, but every time I have switched to a different OS / flavor of Linux, there has been a compelling reason - both for what I am switching from and to. I don't find FreeBSD compelling enough right now.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  21. Re:And then... Hm.. not my take... by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1

    Well, based on your needs, Devuan and others probably work great. You are right that I'm talking about FreeBSD for the sysadmin crowd, not for desktop users or gaming. FreeBSD is very inferior to Linux at this point for gaming. It's got DRM 3D drivers, but you run into a ton of library and dependency failures if you try to run Steam or whatever. So, I have a drive with Linux and Steam and all that fun stuff too. I don't use FreeBSD for that. Still... no systemd there. For whatever reason, I've noticed that Steam seems to work best on Devuan anyway (versus Debian). So, it's a no brainer for me for gaming. Just FYI, though, FreeBSD updated it's 'pkg' tool to have all the same capabilities (actually more) than apt has. So, for a few years now, they've been at parity in that regard. Back when you had to compile everything in FreeBSD from ports, it was a bit more painful for users to get started, I agree.