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AI Still Useless at Catching Hate Speech, Research Finds (theregister.co.uk)

New research has shown just how bad AI is at dealing with online trolls. From a report: Such systems struggle to automatically flag nudity and violence, don't understand text well enough to shoot down fake news and aren't effective at detecting abusive comments from trolls hiding behind their keyboards. A group of researchers from Aalto University and the University of Padua found this out when they tested seven state-of-the-art models used to detect hate speech. All of them failed to recognize foul language when subtle changes were made, according to a paper [PDF] on arXiv. Adversarial examples can be created automatically by using algorithms to misspell certain words, swap characters for numbers or add random spaces between words or attach innocuous words such as 'love' in sentences.

15 of 238 comments (clear)

  1. No such thing as "hate speech" by Alypius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How do you catch something that doesn't exist?

    1. Re:No such thing as "hate speech" by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think there are many people (even among strong free speech proponents) who will deny that hate speech (or perhaps hateful speech if one wanted to get truly technical) exists. Rather the position is that even though it may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise displeasing to some people, there is still no reason for the government to prohibit someone from uttering it.

      Free speech (and the desire to protect it) is necessary precisely because there are things like hate speech.

    2. Re:No such thing as "hate speech" by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      its funny, everytime i try and use the dictionary definition of "racism" im told that the dictionary isnt correct.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    3. Re:No such thing as "hate speech" by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You may believe hate speech is an acceptable form of expression, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's literally defined in the dictionary now

      https://www.merriam-webster.co...

      People change definitions all the time. For example whole communities have exempted themselves from being racist as described below. This is an obvious double standard but my real question is what if one protected class which allegedly can't be racist says something racist to another protected class? For example if Mexicans complain about blacks is that racist? This is the problem with double standards, they are illogical to begin with so they can't stand up to scrutiny. Citations of rationalizing double standards: https://www.elitedaily.com/lif... https://www.quora.com/Why-do-s...

    4. Re: No such thing as "hate speech" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hate is very subjective. Trying to define it as "protecting minorities" means in your world, it's acceptable for a minority to say mean things about the majority, but if someone in the majority says the exact same thing about someone in the minority, it's not. That's not equality. Then we get to global demographics and what might be a minority in a locale, is actually a majority in the global context. This is insanity and a political construct.

      In reality what we have in the US at this time is a bunch of SJWs labeling any speech they don't like as "hate speech". The term is being used as a political weapon, not as an actual betterment of society. It's being used to silence opinions, often when the side silencing has no coherent argument. Someone says X and the other person with no counter argument screams BIGOT!

      At the end of the day, words are just words. We decide how much power to give them. If we decide that something is hateful and should never be said, it becomes very powerful. If you just decide that anyone that says something is an ignorant fool and ignore them, those same words lose power. What is powerful is freedom of speech. Changes to society only happen when unpopular things are allowed to be said. Many of those are not improvements, but out of that muck, the good things rise up. Freedom of speech does not exist to ensure people can say uncontroversial things, it exists to allow opposition and controversial opinions to have a chance to live and evolve. Without that, we stagnate as a people.

    5. Re:No such thing as "hate speech" by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yesterday it was "far right" speech
      Today it is "hate speech"
      Tomorrow it will be censored.

      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it -- Francois-Marie Arouet

      --
      Only children censor.
      Adults communicate and even laugh at taboo subjects.

  2. AI-ish. by devslash0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's because all of the learning/reasoning software that we proudly call AI is not AI at all. It's just a series of pattern recognition and reasoning operations which are only as good as the programmers behind it. Some systems are okay. Most, however, terrible. Even if we got anywhere close to true AI, it would have to be more sophisticated than our intelligence to outsmart human deception. It would need to know about not only our language but also psychology and in fact everything we've ever created to have the full context of each end every conversation.

    In other words, hate speech filters are not likely to start working any time soon.

  3. I don't need your protection. by Harvey+Manfrenjenson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've somehow managed to get by for many years without any algorithms to "protect" me from speech. So here's my message to the inventors of this algorithm: I'd love it if you would fuck right off, OK? Thanks and have a great day!

  4. 1st Amendment by sdinfoserv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." So long as the Constitution Stands, the notion of hate speech is nonsense. to quote an American President: "You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.” That's freedom. The moment you silence someone, labeling their words or ideas as "hate" is the moment every single person whose died for the Constitution, has died a meaningless death - ending in the death of the promise and the idea of Freedom itself.

    1. Re:1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Congress shall make no law....

      Congress

      Private site, private terms of service. Don't like it, build your own site.

      Some of us don't want to wade through the poisonous angry vitriol spewed by many on just about every site nowadays with a message forum feature. I am glad to see sites do something about it, and I encourage more of it. Automating it is required due to the sheer volume of bile they are confronted with.

  5. Stop trying to "flag" hate speech by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Human language is evolutionary, and humans have a need to express their feelings with others, which can occur through various outlets, but mostly by talking about them.

    If someone feels what you call hatred, and you just don't like that, and you feel they shouldn't be able to express that, so you
    try banning a word or phrase, then what do you think happens?

    Either (A) They find a different mode of expression, and for "Hate speech" that may be bad, since their channel may be taking negative actions in the real world to express their feelings instead of talking about it in a more passive setting. You need to allow so called speakers of "Hate Speech" to be able to express their views in order to be able to successfully have a conversation with those people and possibly reason them to a different position, or at least understand the motivating factors.

    Or (B) People find a different word or phrase or image or euphamism to express the same thing.
    Because language is evolutionary --- existing words will be co-opted, or new words or phrases will be created to express what they wish to express.
    These people who would write "hate speech"; will simply use different words or phrases to express their exact feelings, whatever they can find which
    will avoid flagging the detection system -- because language is evolutionary, in time others will begin to get feelings like the new phrases or words they co-opted
      may now qualify as hate speech, and thus the algorithms fall out of date.

    The real fix is not to try and "block" offensive words or "hate speech", BUT instead to modify the social conventions around the language,
    so that there is no such thing as a verboten word, phrase, or sentence.

  6. Here's my hate speech by blindseer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate Nazis. I really really hate Nazis. People willing to round up innocent men, women, and children, and kill them are demonic.

    I hate the KKK. I grew up in a predominately Catholic community and I'd hear stories from my dad and grandparents about the KKK holding rallies. They were outnumbered, and they knew this, so they'd play nice without the masks. They'd be a lot of bark with no bite but in other areas of the USA they'd kill Catholics. Not many people are aware of this but the KKK likely strung up as many Catholics in trees as they did blacks. So, I really hate the KKK. I remember David Duke doing some national tour and ending up in the area to do some speech. A lot of people showed up to hear the idiot talk. I guess he thought he'd get some support in a place that was 99% white, but failed the most basic of demographic testing and seems to have not realized that the crowd was 80%+ Catholic.

    I hate these people and they deserve to burn in hell. What I hate more is restrictions on one's ability to express themselves as they wish. Should David Duke have come around here to speak? Not really, but that's just a failure to recognize his audience. He spoke and he had every right to speak. He got on the local evening news and I got to see all the stunned faces at what he was saying. The guy is an idiot and I'm not going to stop him from exposing his idiocy.

    You "Anti-Fa" people out there need to learn a bit from the quiet resistance that David Duke met 25 or so years ago. As I recall no one raised a sign. Certainly no one raised a fist. Everyone I saw listened to the nonsense and then ignored the bastard. That's what I see a lot on the left/right political spectrum, the left want to shut people up and the right wants them to keep talking. If "hate speech" is such a terrible idea then why fear it being spoken?

    So, there's my hate speech rant. I hate the Nazis, I hate the KKK, and I hate people that want to stop "hate speech". This isn't about "hate speech", this is about stopping the political competition from speaking and that should never be tolerated.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Here's my hate speech by blindseer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You need to study Popper's Paradox of Tolerance.

      I'm quite aware of the paradox. I've heard it expressed in several different ways. One is, "There is one thought that stops all thought and that is the one thought that needs to be stopped." Or, "Don't open your mind so much that your brains fall out."

      However, from your sig I would already bet that you will never figure it out. Can you even imagine that your worship words have actual meanings?

      I'm trying to figure it out. Here's one thing that I'm quite sure of is when it comes to concepts like one's freedom to speak we must err on the side of speaking freely. I remember as a kid watching some movie on TV about some tribe in Africa, a fictionalized account of historical events. Now in most any other case of what is considered acceptable on television in the West, or what my parents would allow me to watch at that age, topless women would not be among them. But the people making the movie thought that having women in the tribe wear something to cover their nipples would not only be historically inaccurate it would be more distracting than the perceived immodesty. There's a line there on what is considered acceptable and it gets fuzzy sometimes. I saw a similar thing happen with a documentary on the terror attacks on the World Trade Center. Normally a network would be fined for letting profanity be uttered but there was an exception for this case, because the events depicted were beyond the profane and a few "not nice" words from police and firefighters were mild by comparison. Trying to catch all the profanity and remove it would have also sanitized what was happening. You really think I don't understand my signature line? I gave it considerable thought. Just like removing "hate speech" is a greater threat to our freedom than the "hate speech" itself there is a greater threat to our freedoms by disarming people than allowing people to be armed.

      The idea of "hate speech" is simply "something I don't like" and it shifts and moves and always seems to ratchet towards more and more tyranny. Same for "assault weapon", it's just a term for "something I want to ban" and the definition only shifts tighter and tighter towards more tyranny. I'll err on the side of greater freedoms despite what threats that might have to my personal safety. That's because nothing is more deadly than a government that gets to define what a person may say or own.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  7. No, that's not why by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's just a series of pattern recognition and reasoning operations which are only as good as the programmers

    All that is true but it's not the fundamental reason for failure.

    The fundamental reason for failure is, there is no such thing as hate speech. You cannot write some reasoned algorithmic or pattern based approach to detecting something that is only detectable by someone with hatred inside them.

    Until we teach a true AI to hate, it in turn will not recognize speech that drives it mad and thus should be declared "hate" speech.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  8. Of course it's bad... by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ....can YOU give me a concrete definition of hate speech that is more objective than "language that makes me or someone I like very sad"?

    Is Alex Jones bellowing "Sandy Hook was a fraud" hate speech?
    Is Maxine Waters telling people to aggressively confront Trump supporters hate speech?
    Is a racist redneck saying ""Niggas shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house...you should watch your mouth 'cause I'll break your face" hate speech?
    Would it be ok if those words were 50-cent lyrics? (They are.)

    --
    -Styopa