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SAP Founder Hasso Plattner Fears the Scourge of Social Media (afr.com)
In a wide-ranging interview, Hasso Plattner, the 74-year-old co-founder and chairman of global business software powerhouse SAP, talked about his apprehension of the social media. From the story: He saves his greatest condemnation for the scourge of fake news and societal manipulation on large social media platforms such as Facebook and Twitter. Despite the founders of the social giants pledging to do more to ensure public debate is not artificially skewed, Plattner believes the solution will have to come from law enforcement and criminal penalties. He says humans are genetically wired to thrive on rumours, dating back to ancient times when rumours about what was going on in the next village would be on everyone's mind. He fears social platforms have simply become rumour distribution machines of unbelievable power.
"I was very optimistic that social networks would improve access to information and democracy in general, but I am very disappointed that the opposite is happening," he says. "Professional information producers undermine the social networks, undermine states and elections. It is unbelievable what is happening and we have a huge problem." Plattner draws a parallel with insider trading, which he says is as easy to commit as social media manipulation, but is not so common because people know they will be slugged with criminal convictions. "This is all before we look at the exploitation of personal data, where we are naked in front of the social networks, because we undress ourselves, and not only literally," he says. "I think this will continue until we have the legal systems properly looking at it, and have strong laws that people have to obey."
"I was very optimistic that social networks would improve access to information and democracy in general, but I am very disappointed that the opposite is happening," he says. "Professional information producers undermine the social networks, undermine states and elections. It is unbelievable what is happening and we have a huge problem." Plattner draws a parallel with insider trading, which he says is as easy to commit as social media manipulation, but is not so common because people know they will be slugged with criminal convictions. "This is all before we look at the exploitation of personal data, where we are naked in front of the social networks, because we undress ourselves, and not only literally," he says. "I think this will continue until we have the legal systems properly looking at it, and have strong laws that people have to obey."
Donald Trump? I guess that's a rational fear given the insanity circumstances.
It's not just the large social media platforms who can be faulted
It's mostly all the other media and marketing companies who want their slice of the pie.
Can't let them big tech giant have their cake and eat it now, can we.
passphrase === "subset"
You nazi faggots still have Der Sturmer, right? Why do you need to rely on the goodwill of Zuckerbergs to reach your audience of morons and inbreds? Talk about a design flaw to your reichtard movement, relying on Facebook? Heh.
It's kind of hard to sell your supremacy when you're so retarded and easily foiled, right? Think things through better.
Calls for censorship, corporations deciding what's truth and what's not, or who gets to speak and who not, mainstream media colluding to push a narrative, using law enforcement to enforce political bias, etc.
And you want to lecture others about manipulation? The whole basis of these discussions is manipulation, i.e. bolstering one political leaning while suppressing others.
Back in his days, people listened to good old government propaganda, like they ought to do!
But not social media. He should fear the wrath of anyone who's ever had to use or support his software.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
Social media has killed people, and will kill again.
Most people fear SAP for what this piece of shit software is...
the reason why a bunch of good companies folded with unwiedly SAP deployments from hell !
The fall of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazi regime shows how futile and counterproductive such approaches are. The Weimar Republic had strong laws regulating speech and the press. Far from shutting down the Nazis, the Nazis made a fight against "fake news" part of their own platform ("We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press."). Given Germany's history, for a German to propose criminalizing speech is a sign of profound historical ignorance and irresponsibility.
And let's not kid ourselves why billionaires and political elites in Europe and the US bristle at social networks and blogs: since Edward Bernays, they have used control over the press to “control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it" (his words). In case you don't know, Bernays is responsible for overcoming the resistance of Americans to enter WWI and for addicting American women to tobacco.
Between the fall of the Weimar republic and the rise of the nat-socialists you forgot one "small" key detail, the rise of the Communists. Which made the natsies look good.
I think it's time Slashdot started thinking about banning ACs. Seems lately all the shit comments that roll in on each story are posted by those who can't even stand to hide behind a screen name.
The elite still gets away with spreading their rumors. That's the whole point of Mr. Plattner's interview. Now they don't bribe the classical media, now they pay software companies to operate social bots.
Banning AC wouldn't actually solve the problem without more effort. The nazi troll crew does have a lot of regular named accounts to spam from also. Only a well tied knot can solve what ails them.
Now they don't bribe the classical media
They OWN the classical media.
At least you know that they own the classical media. But on Facebook, you don't get told that this is not just a rumor, but a paid for campaign to influence your views, economical and political decisions.
This sort of thing is music to the ears of the establishment. One more powerful voice to stand with with ruling class as they screw up the courage to criminalize those that annoy. It's been taken so far that Plattner has lost his inhibition to openly state his intentions.
Realize who you're climbing in bed with. This is the quintessential Captain of Industry; a man that has spent his life capturing regulators and leveraging IP law to propel himself to the 0.0001% bar in the wealth histogram. But hes singing the right song so you look past all that because you lost an election and if the criminal ban hammer is what it takes to make sure that never happens again well then all hail Mr. Plattner and any other Great and Good that join him.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Well, that showed me. Very cogently argued.
I see that you didn't rebut anything I said - Facebook and Twitter are censoring conservative voices, which is CLEARLY going to influence the outcome of the next election. Why else do you think they are doing it?
"Call him a Jew and watch how he recoils in horror - I've been found out!"
I think it's time Slashdot started thinking about banning ACs. Seems lately all the shit comments that roll in on each story are posted by those who can't even stand to hide behind a screen name.
You can't just tolerate or ignore stuff you don't like so you want to BAN it ?
I doubt you can even grasp how wrongheaded our desire to ban stuff because you don't like it really is.
If you don't like a comment, SCROLL ON DOWN THE PAGE. Or quit using the website.
The world is not going to bend to your will, little child, and the sooner you realize this the sooner you can start becoming an adult.
Merkel does not have anything with this, no matter what she says. Due to Germany's Nazi past and because allied authorities like the US insisted on it, Germany has applicable hate speech laws that every company doing business in Germany has to respect. Using Nazi symbols, instigating violence by racist slurs, showing the Hitler greeting, and denying the Holocaust is illegal in Germany, and Facebook has to provide the means to comply with the law or close their business in Germany. It's as simple as that.
The US, France, and the UK insisted on these kind of mechanisms and gave Western Germany a constitution that can defend itself against inner threats, because the Weimarer Republic failed due to inner threats - by the Nazis abusing constitutional flaws and spreading hate and terror on the street and in media. For example, in Germany a Nazi party (SRP - the successor of the NSDAP) and a communist party (KPD - largely under Soviet control) were prohibited in the 50s.
If you really, really want to go to war against Germany again in 50-100 years from now and if you enjoyed the total destruction of Europe by the Nazis or the communist occupation of Eastern Europe, then please continue to insist that Germans should enjoy full freedom and speech, no matter how despicable, and to abolish constitutional safeguards against inner takeover by totalitarians.
For what it's worth, German authorities are much too tame about the current threats. They should definitely surveille the AfD and other right-wing wackos, just like they watched and infiltrated anarchist and communist groups in the past, but unfortunately they are a bit blind on the right eye (as the NSU murders and the involvement of the Verfassungsschutz in them have aptly illustrated).
Anyone happen to have an alternative Link?
Just what we need: another wealthy baby boomer selling to criminalize more behavior and lock up more people. This seems to be more about class control than any real and tangible fear since the largest userbase are the poor and working classes. Passing laws like these just take freedoms away, and if you're wondering, I'm a Gen Xer and an anarchist.
You must be new here?
We're supposed to live in liberal societies, there's plenty of totalitarian countries you can pick from if you want to live somewhere that censors speech. Take Plattner with you!
The desire is to ban stuff that has no value, which would be your entire life.
Ahhh... classical fear mongering - because you don't want to read statistics correctly and cherry pick date ranges or crime categories and count on the idea that others don't understand statistics either. There were more homicides in Germany during the 80s and early 90s. Overall, crime rates in Germany are fairly low. Moreover, for a fair comparison you'd need to take into account the age classes and incomes, too. Here is some more information on potential correlations between crime and immigration.
The vast majority of immigrants does not commit any crimes whatsoever, just like the vast majority of Germans don't. Increase living standards and education, and the crime rate sinks, too. Get more elderly or more female immigrants, and the crime rate sinks, too. Just like with Germans citizens without immigration background.
You're welcome.
Fake news are usually made from private interest groups trying to manipulate mass perception to provoke a responde... Like all those are tools used by PR companies and marketing.
Moron!
If you really, really want to go to war against Germany again in 50-100 years from now and if you enjoyed the total destruction of Europe by the Nazis or the communist occupation of Eastern Europe, then please continue to insist that Germans should enjoy full freedom and speech, no matter how despicable, and to abolish constitutional safeguards against inner takeover by totalitarians.
Oh, my sweet, summer child. What makes you think we're not going to get into that position anyway? Even though it's illegal to publicly be a Nazi, Germany still has Nazis, in part because these laws only hide the truth.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You can't just tolerate or ignore stuff you don't like so you want to BAN it ?
I doubt you can even grasp how wrongheaded our desire to ban stuff because you don't like it really is.
Banning things that people really believe is wrong. That's why I get annoyed when something I believe is modded as troll. No, I really meant that, so by definition I'm not trolling. But banning things that people are just shitposting because they want to shit on the discussion is something different. It's preserving a resource so that it can be used by others. Garbage comments make using the site more difficult for those users who act in good faith.
However, eliminating ACs would not be banning content. It would be making it harder to troll. Learn the difference, kid.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Lately? It's always been that way. Also, banning anonymous comments wouldn't fix anything either since there's nothing that stops a person from signing up for a new account. Look at all of the different creimer troll accounts that sprang up a while back, and there are a few around now that are trying to impersonate the editors.
If you don't want to wade through the mud, browse at 1 and you'll avoid most of it. Most of the really annoying spam posts get moderated down quite quickly, so unless you've set it to browse at -1, you'll see almost none of it. There are also a lot of good comments from anonymous posters as well. On some stories they're better than anything you get from a registered account.
... in case their slaves start exposing them, organising, and fighting back. We can't have that!
Google 'Ursula Haverbeck' to find out what is happening.
"However, eliminating ACs would not be banning content. It would be making it harder to troll. Learn the difference, kid."
You could not be more wrong.
The trolls would just make more fake accounts causing more long term problems.
Learn the difference, you known Troll.
"However, eliminating ACs would not be banning content. It would be making it harder to troll. Learn the difference, kid."
The trolls would just make more fake accounts causing more long term problems.
Fake accounts don't cause problems, son. They take up a tiny amount of database space, and in exchange we get a posting history included with the account that tells us if it's been used to troll in the past.
Learn the difference, you known Troll.
I have a posting history that proves that I'm not a troll, since it contains so very many comments clearly made in good faith. You, on the other hand, are an AC accusing me of trolling, which all-but-conclusively proves that you are a troll all day.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
WTF is the word "Social" doing in TFA title?
I think the mod system works OK; there's always enough sane people with points to mod.the dumbasses down.
No man, it's gotten much worse during the past few years. Browsing at -1 has become unbearable for halfway decent human beings.
When you ban free speech; then only criminals will have a voice.
- Gordon
Drinkypoo, Germany has plenty of Nazis and purpose of these laws is certainly not to prevent the occurrence of Nazis. On the contrary, those laws and constitutional safeguards were invented at a time when Germany was arguably full of Nazis and Nazi enablers. If you don't even understand the purpose of such laws and/or the history of Germany, you really have nothing to contribute.
Oh, my sweet, summer child.
You would appear less childish if you kept such snippets to yourself, drinkypoo!
We need a filter on slashdot. When the words 'nazi' and 'faggot' appear in a comment it is automatically modded to -2 and a 5 day ip ban is imposed.
People who accuse another of being a nazi and who call somebody else a 'faggot' are completely different. Antifaschists are not homophobes. It's just a crapflooder who needs an ip ban.
Again you fail to refute the point and resort to name calling. If you really are on the side of right, you'll have truth and facts on your side instead of hate and violence.
You're free to browse at +5 if you want a groupthink echochamber circle jerk that serves no purpose other than to reaffrim the viewpoints that have been spoonfed to you.
On the contrary, those laws and constitutional safeguards were invented at a time when Germany was arguably full of Nazis and Nazi enablers. If you don't even understand the purpose of such laws and/or the history of Germany, you really have nothing to contribute.
I do understand the purpose of such laws. It was to subjugate Germany.
If you don't even understand the purpose of such laws and/or the history of Germany, you really have nothing to contribute.
If you don't even understand that the USA profited from the holocaust, then you have less than nothing to contribute.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
On Facebook, what else would it be?
I do understand the purpose of such laws. It was to subjugate Germany.
*sigh* So you understand nothing. I know I'm throwing pearls before the swine, as we say in Germany, but I will still explain. Totalitarian regimes rise to power by a mixture of propaganda and terror/fear. The latter is created by mobs, enforced uniformity, beating up people, death squadrons, etc. The former, the propaganda needs to distract from real discourse and understanding and therefore involves plenty of hate speech, ridiculing opponents, celebrating cruelty, and political 'cartoons' that demonize the opponent. Apart from many other factors such as the unfavorable clauses of the Versaille Treaty, the Nazis came to power by using the SA to instill fear and terror and by disrupting civil discourse using the Stürmer and similar publications.
That's why Germany has relatively strong hate speech laws and constitutional safeguards. Coincidentally, a very small minority in Germany and elsewhere is currently trying to do the same as what the Nazis did in online forums worldwide - with sizeable though in the end only very moderate success.
And it reflects the baseness and egocentric behavior of nearly everyone when they go online. There is a switch that flips when people feel they are anonymous or can suffer limited social consequences for their behavior and they behave like borderline sociopaths in that situation.
This is the dawn of the information age. And a widely connected society is something very new for us. Unfortunately few have adjusted to the change well, and most people are in a social infancy. An infancy where they struggle to find acceptable behavior because they are unable to read social cues online. The Internet has become Lord of the Flies, and the Simon's of the world are few and far between.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Seems lately all the shit comments that roll in on each story are posted by those who can't even stand to hide behind a screen name...
... for totally understandable reasons. Why should I give up my anonymity?
On the other hand, some of the best material on /. is also from AC's.
So you think that copy&paste swastikas and APK rants give you better viewpoints???
Yes.
That noise is just the price you pay for not living in a total bubble. It turns out that Liberty is somewhat "untidy".
Liberty requires tolerating things you hate and defending your enemies.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Seriously, what's with all the idiots on Slashdot using the derogatory term "faggots" ?
Why do the jews hate Venezuela? Until you can figure that out, you need to seriously question your world view.
Damn it, i knew Slashdot was owned by the government...\s
Donyou have something against gangstas and pimps?
I think the world needs to be more worries about the scourge of SAP. Ever hear of a smooth implementation of SAP that came in on time and under budget? No? Neither have I...
> You can't just tolerate or ignore stuff you don't like so you want to BAN it ?
Where did I say that? I just said make them use actual accounts. Raise the bar to posting a bit more than clicking a checkbox, to help slow down the torrent of shit.
Blind gullability and livestock-like herd behavior. Which leads to the worst type of conspiracy theorist there is: The anticonspiracy theorist.
Somebody who, ignoring all facts and all of reality if he has to, believes there can never ever be any conspiracy of any kind whatsoever, and everyone is just either nice and happy-clappy or merely dumb and incompetent.
It's the exact same thing as a conspiracy theorist: Somebody who can't handle reality, and has to cling to a delusion that makes everything make sense and be acceptable to his feeble mind.
The best example of that, is the NSA leaks denier. Who just ignores everything published about it, never read the documents himself, yet claims everything written in there is made up, when you tell him about it.
These are people that make the time cube 'tards look like reasonable people. You can stab them in the back with a knife so large it comes out the front, say "whoops, sorry" and they will not only write it off as clumsiness, but attack anyone who points out that it might be deliberate, as a "tin foil hatter" or "nutjob". You can then stab them again, and use the exact same trick as before. They will deny it to their literal death.
It's amazingly close to schizophrenia.
... the anticonspiracy theorist. People like you, who aren't holocaust deniers (one point for you), but definitely NSA leak deniers (aand it's gone). People, who, even after that whole shit, still break out the "tin foil hat" attack.
Just like a conspiracy theorist, with merely the opposing polarity (so blind gullibility and groveling obedience), and hence the worst kind of smug arrogance this planet has ever seen.
Which is as sad, as seeing a 1980s-style "cool kid" try to ridicule and bully "nerds" in 2018.The cringe could collapse an universe.
Think things through better.
Some day you're going to get what you deserve when you talk shit.
And it's not going to be a medal for being a good little cocksucker.
You're welcome.
That's a propaganda movie made by Hollywood.
You seem to think it represents reality.
It doesn't.
Some day your mouth is going to get you in serious trouble and you aren't going to be able to talk your way out of it.
> Banning things that people really believe is wrong. That's why I get annoyed when something I believe is modded as troll.
Context can be king. YOU might believe it, but that doesn't exclude someone else from using that viewpoint or belief to troll. For example, you might believe wholeheartedly the Earth is flat (and a disturbing number of people apparently do believe this exact thing). But *I* don't believe that. That wouldn't preclude me from posting a flat-Earth oriented snark/troll comment and it being correctly voted down, because the context and intent of my post would have been to troll.
[quote]Blind gullability and livestock-like herd behavior. Which leads to the worst type of conspiracy theorist there is: The anticonspiracy theorist.[/quote]
Yeah but thats a bit of a strawman dude. Nobody really believes that *no* conspiracies exist. I mean maybe one or two folks genuinely believe that spy agencies dont.... uh.... spy or whatever.
But lets be honest. 99% of conspiracy theories are blatent bullshit.
There was never a pizza sex dungeon run by Hillary from her lizard spacecraft.
Q is a 4 chan troll who has no idea what happens in washington , and every prediction he's made has come false.
Climate change actually is real and caused by humans, and theres no vast conspiracy of scientists to lie about physics dating back to the 1800s.
September 11 really was done by Bin Laden boys, just like bin laden said they did.
And we *know* these things to be true because the alternative just isn't how the world actually works.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
It does have far fewer nazis than some countries without hate speech laws, though (e.g. the US).
If you really, really want to go to war against Germany again in 50-100 years from now and if you enjoyed the total destruction of Europe by the Nazis or the communist occupation of Eastern Europe, then please continue to insist that Germans should enjoy full freedom and speech, no matter how despicable, and to abolish constitutional safeguards against inner takeover by totalitarians.
If Germany is in your top-20 list of countries most likely to cause a major war in the coming 50-100 years, you are batshit insane. If you are convinced hate speech restrictions are useful against nazi-like terror, I would strongly suggest that you focus on getting such laws enacted in the US, Russia and Middle Eastern countries.
The JSDF and blurred genitals in cinema/anime/etc are both holdovers of the American occupation. And while there is talk of things changing now, you will note they have also signficantly raised age of consent across the country.
Japanese society had always been self-repressive in certain matters, but the US pushed a good deal of 'christian' values on them as part of the surrender.
one of the lesser human beings here. One of those who, according to you, shouldn't have the right to free speech that people in the US enjoy.
> If you really, really want to go to war against Germany again in 50-100 years from now and if you enjoyed the total destruction of Europe by the Nazis or the communist occupation of Eastern Europe, then please continue to insist that Germans should enjoy full freedom and speech, no matter how despicable, and to abolish constitutional safeguards against inner takeover by totalitarians.
Sure, just make bad words illegal and the underlying problems magically disappear. I wish it was that simple. No constitutional safeguard can stop a desperate and disenfranchised population. Like those people in Germany who lost their jobs due to the financial crisis of the late twenties and then had their unenployment benefits cancelled in the name of austerity.
If you really, really want to see the rise of the next Nazis and if you enjoyed the total destruction of Europe, then make sure the next financial crisis devastates people's lives and then hit them with "austerity" and don't forget to dump some more problems on them, like masses of refugees from a never-ending colonial war. Oh wait, you are already doing that. And then, when their jobs go away and the rent is going up, which apparently has started to happen in Germany and Sweden partly due to unplanned mass imigration, tell them that their real problem is their xenophobia. The Nazis are waiting for them with open arms and will be very happy when you censor them, because then they can paint themselves as prosecuted martyrs.
Unlikely, as a law-abiding citizen who not a Nazi I'd just call the police and get the trouble maker(s) arrested. Pretty simple concept.
No need to argue with Nazis, just get rid of them. :)
Context can be king. YOU might believe it, but that doesn't exclude someone else from using that viewpoint or belief to troll.
So what? Moderation is applied to individual comments, not to Slashdot as a [w]hole. If I am not trolling, then my comment is not a troll, regardless of what other people might have used similar words for.
This is why Slashdot has become such a shithole. Even basic reasoning is beyond the people who get modpoints.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You had me at "he invented SAP", and then you told me that he was 74 years old.
tone
.. or the former newspaper NYT....