Mercedes Unveils First Tesla Rival In $12 Billion Attack (bloomberg.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Mercedes-Benz, the world's largest maker of luxury cars, is rolling out its first in a series of battery-powered models, adding to a growing array of high-end brands targeting Tesla. The Mercedes EQC crossover starts production in the first half of next year, part of a plan to develop its EQ electric line, Daimler AG Chief Executive Officer Dieter Zetsche told reporters in Stockholm at the car's world premiere. The company intended to invest $12 billion on the electric-car push, but the spending has become "more than that," he said Tuesday, without specifying figures. "There is no alternative to betting on electric cars, and we're going all in," Zetsche said. "It is starting right now." The new EQC -- roughly the size of the brand's popular GLC SUV -- features a range of more than 280 miles and accelerates to 62 mph in as little as 5.1 seconds. The Model X has a range of 237 miles. Daimler doesn't plan to establish a dedicated electric assembly plant and will instead build the vehicles at the same sites as conventional automobiles to be able to better adjust output, Zetsche said, adding that he expects demand to mainly eat into sales of combustion cars rather than lure new customers.

Comments

Cue Janice

[Registered Coward v2]

Oh lord, won’t you buy me an electric Benz, My friends all drive diesels I must make amends

5.1 seconds?

[SuperKendall]

5.1 seconds seems substantially slower than any model Tesla.

Are they making a car to compete against Tesla, or the Volt?

Re: 5.1 seconds?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they want to compete in sales rather than racing the cars...

Re:5.1 seconds?

[JaredOfEuropa]

Superfast acceleration is perhaps #231 on the list of must-haves for prospective buyers of this type of car. The importance things to compete on are range, charging, looks, room, quality, comfort. Especially looks... many automakers get this wrong and think that when desiging an EV, you must toss all common styling wisdom out the window (hello BMW i3, you nasty eyesore). One thing that made Teslas so popular is that they are fairly normal looking vehicles.

Re:5.1 seconds?

[whoever57]

The importance things to compete on are range, charging ...

Yes, and in the USA, all other manufacturers are years behind Tesla in building a charging network that will support long distance drives.

Re:5.1 seconds?

[SuperKendall]

Superfast acceleration is perhaps #231 on the list of must-haves for prospective buyers of this type of car.
It may not be top of the list for most buyers but to pretend it sits that low in importance seems not right to me... But beyond that let us proceed...

The importance things to compete on are range, charging, looks, room, quality, comfort.

Tesla's have more range as a top end option. Frankly I think if you are offering anything under 300 you should really go back and keep working it until you can hit that figure reliably.

Tesla has a HUGE lead in rapid charging stations (frankly to me this is the actual #1 for most people for any electric car since it means stopping overnight vs. for snacks).

As you say they mostly look like a real car, and I personally like how the model 3 looks better than almost any modern sedan. The look of the new Mercedes seems OK, though it seems oddly stretched out, like a piece of taffy just being pulled?

Teslas also have good room with extra trunks.

Quality and comfort to me seems about the same in a Tesla as modern Mercedes I've been in. Maybe slightly lower quality but even the top end cars are not that impressive quality-wise if you've attended an auto show recently.

Re: 5.1 seconds?

[that this is not und]

True, but Tesla has been saying 'up yours' to the mainstream automotive fuel industry. The other automakers have long and congenial relationships with the established gas station chains. Think of the convenience if there was a charging station added at nearly every gas station in the world. You wouldn't have to frequent a specifiC 'network' of charging stations. Gas stations can just add a charging station or two. Which is a lot cheaper than what Tesla has done.

Re:5.1 seconds?

[fluffernutter]

Tesla has a HUGE lead in rapid charging stations

That's why I will be staying with ICE for quite some time. When I buy an ICE car, I don't have to worry about who has the 'lead' in filling it.

Re: 5.1 seconds?

[dgatwood]

If you look at total profit from drilling to the pump, I think you'll find that the money is in gasoline. The automakers just aren't involved in it.

Re:5.1 seconds?

[Barsteward]

A lot of power inflation means better efficiency and economy and companies seem to need a "halo" model for encourage meaningless chatter. The 0-60 is a "I can piss higher up the wall than you" thing, more important is acceleration for overtakes - thats where they should produce measurements of note.

Re:5.1 seconds?

[AmiMoJo]

5.1 seconds is faster than base model Teslas. The Model 3 non-performance is "slower" than that. And by slower I mean by a fraction of a second that no-one cares about except fanboys playing Top Trumps.

Range wise 280 miles is pretty decent. Take the Hyundai Kona, which is rated for just under 300 and will do a solid 250 at 70 MPH. That's 3.5 hours of solid driving, say 3 hours to allow some buffer. Don't know about the US but in Europe that is getting close to the legal limit for commercial drivers to take a break.

Keep in mind that this is a European car and European charging infrastructure is very different. Here we have decent CCS networks in many countries, while there is often a lack of Tesla superchargers. And often the superchargers are a little way off the main routes while CCS tends to be at motorway service stations and the like, so often supercharging doesn't offer any real speed advantage.

Re:5.1 seconds?

[dunkelfalke]

Higher weight. Here is a typical example of probably the most common German car:

VW Golf 1, 750-805 kg kerb weight, 50-70 hp.
VW Golf 7, 1205-1540 kg kerb weight, 85-180 hp (non-GTI version).

Add to this the general population becoming heavier and you'll have your answer.

Error in the ./ Summary

[Jodka]

from the ./ summary:

The Model X has a range of 237 miles.

from wikipedia

The Tesla Model X 100D has an official EPA rated range of up to 295 mi (475 km).

So the summary incorrectly states that the Mercedes EQC has a greater range (280 miles) than the Tesla Model X, when in fact the Mercedes has the lesser range.

There are different standards for measurement for electrical vehicle range, so it's not clear if the figures are comparable. Nonetheless, the value given appears either outdated or otherwise in error.
 

Re:Musk missed the window

[bobbied]

Game over

Ah, not so fast. Where I don't think this is great news for Tesla, and I agree Tesla has been spinning it's wheels getting manufacturing up to speed, They are far from done. They are rapidly running out of maneuvering room as the majors start to take Tesla seriously enough to market similarly equipped all electrics at similar price points, so they need to get that factory running, w/o any more delays or they will be done. BUT they are not done.

I give Tesla less than a 50% chance of making it long term and I'm worried about how Musk is acting right now. Their problems are stacking up and we are still in the mode where the pile is getting higher as they move forward, but if they can start working the issues faster than they find them, there is still a chance.

Re:so close

[bobbied]

Mercedes isn't the paragon of virtue quality wise. They have their own quality issues. My brother is a Mercedes dealer mechanic (among the top 10% in the nation) and he told me that there are a number of models he'd never recommend anybody buy. Their SUV initially had some serious quality issues with the electronics packages and once they fall out of warranty, few folks keep them due to their huge maintenance costs, so they get junked pretty quick.

But you do make a valid point. Tesla needs to get that factory working and stop messing around. They don't have time to mess with any new features, but need to start pushing out cars at a profit. They have to make good and start recouping their investors' money.

Long term, Tesla will face a serious issue with their build costs. That's where the majors will clean their clocks. They know how to run the supply chain, drive costs down on volume and build cars accurately and quickly. Tesla will struggle there too. Their margin for error is very small.

Actually the 280 range of the EQC....

[Ecuador]

Actually the 280 range of the EQC is apparently not an EPA standard measurement, so it is not even comparable. The 100D you mention is the "high end" for the tesla, but even the 75D model X has 237 miles or range, when the EQC might not have much more than 200: https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-...

It seems that their range was too short, so they sort of fudged the numbers a bit to make it sound better? Not sure what this NEDC measurement is, but it apparently gives the Tesla Model X 100D a 351 range!

I prefer Merc to Telsa

[Harlequin80]

I currently own 2 merceders a C200 and an E220D. One of my best mates owns a Tesla S.

The Tesla is really nice. And goes incredibly quick. But for me it doesn't tick the right boxes for me to spend that amount of money on.

I totally get that it is personal taste, but I'm not a fan of the interior of the tesla. It doesn't feel as nice as my E. And while the tesla wieghs more than my E it doesn't have the same solid feel inside. Stupid example is the sound the doors make when you close them. Also, once you get over the geeky "thats so cool" response to the massive screen in the tesla I'm not a fan of it.

Acceleration isn't a thing for me. Cars have never really been about performance, I have motorcycles for that.

One thing that my mate owning a tesla has done is totally remove any range concern about owning an electric I might have had. Sure my E will do over 1000km on a tank. But his tesla has a full tank every morning. The 30km each way commute to the city just isn't a cause for concern. Also our state govt has built a network of charging stations along the primary highway network.

For me an electric car in the same category as the Mercedes E class would be hugely compelling.

Re:Not nearly enough

[beanpoppa]

Electric car owners will find themselves at public charging stations infrequently. As an ICE owner, I have to refill at a gas station once a week. An electric car owner generally charges overnight at home, and only has to charge on the road occasionally when their trip is longer than 250 miles. Sure- if you're going to say "But I have a 300 mile trip every week!" then an electric car may not be for you. But you would be greatly in the minority.

Re:so close

[AmiMoJo]

The other big quality issue with Tesla that rarely gets mentioned is beta software.

Because they can do OTA updates they release cars half finished and promise to release basic features later, but then never do. It's as bad as game developers.

For example, take speed sensitive volume control. Very basic feature that has been standard on car stereos for what, 20 years now? Tesla promised it years ago, even got as far as making the check box for it visible but it didn't work properly, and last time I checked that box had gone away again.

And now other manufacturers are getting the same idea. The Jaguar iPace launched with unfinished software and all the fanboys are complaining about early reviews that didn't wait for the promised big update that will fix everything.