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Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' (axios.com)

For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips. From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.

114 comments

  1. Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S.

    If the US leads in chip manufacture, why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?

    Why editorialize - especially in such a close-minded manner?

    1. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Why?

      Politics of course..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by AlwinBarni · · Score: 1

      Why?

      Politics of course..

      Could you please expand?

    3. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why?

      Politics of course..

      Could you please expand?

      P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why?

      Politics of course..

      Could you please expand?


      P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.

      I'm not sure if I should laugh, or hunt you down and smack you upside your head with a 2x4.

    5. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Highdude702 · · Score: 2

      I mean, I thought it was hilarious, and it wasn't the name calling garbage you see here too often.

    6. Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The only reason is automation. Jobs were never going to come back from chip manufacturing.

      They have a factory crew for setting up the parts and feeding the machines. Pretty cheap, doesn't actually make much money for anyone but the corporation running it. It's all "unskilled" and low pay...setting up all those machines, getting material dimensions in spec and running the machine is just considered general labor.

    7. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by YuppieScum · · Score: 2

      If the US leads in chip manufacture, why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?

      Because most of the CPU silicon used in the commonest devices - phones and laptops - is fabbed in Asia.

      Because most of the parts - like screens, RAM and flash storage - are also made in Asia, so it's cheaper to bolt it all together in a location closest to the source of the most parts.

      Because final assembly of something like an iPhone is a manual process that requires the dexterity of nimble fingers. It's not quite the same as bolting doors onto a Chevvy.

      --
      This sig left unintentionally blank.
    8. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by AlwinBarni · · Score: 1

      :-)

      However:
      expand ikspand/
      verb
      verb: expand; 3rd person present: expands; past tense: expanded; past participle: expanded; gerund or present participle: expanding
      * become or make larger or more extensive
      * give a fuller version or account of.

    9. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Because it hardly has any of the pieces right now - it would be a massive effort to put all the supply chains in place for the various electronics components needed for a whole computer when the US currently makes little more than chips. Currently those supply chains are in Asia (which also has the advantages of cheap labor and lax environmental laws). I'd compare it to going from just making engine blocks to making a whole car, but that underplays the difficulty too much.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    10. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?"
      Think back to the 1970 and 1980's when the CPU thing needed new production lines and was no longer low yield skilled lab work.
      Non first world nations part pay their workers in food, dormitories. Their introduction to work is free as its part of the nations free "education".
      Tax reductions and industrial export support then further supports the electronics brand in the poor nation.
      No unions. Lots of pollution.

      The big brands moved to very low cost nations and got to import their new product back into the USA. Computer products from the USA for the world of consumers.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    11. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      :-)

      However: expand - verb ...
      (1) become or make larger or more extensive
      (2) give a fuller version or account of.

      Yup, I know; I was married to an English teacher for 20 years, but using the first definition was funnier. :-)

      Remember Sue...

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    12. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because final assembly of something like an iPhone is a manual process that requires the dexterity of nimble fingers. It's not quite the same as bolting doors onto a Chevvy.

      Nimble fingers exists in the US too, it just doesn't fit some peoples view of a male breadwinner who works hard to provide for his housewife.

      There was a time then IBM mostly hired women to assemble computers.
      What China has here is a poor rural population where girls would like to get an education before they get married. To pay for it they move to the city and use their small fingers to assemble electronics.

      You don't find that kind of workforce in the rust belt in the US these days.
      The closest you will find would be girls from African-American "communities" that wants to get away from the ghetto, but if you want those fingers to assemble electronics you still have to pay them enough to at least rent an apartment in a better part of the town, otherwise it is kinda pointless for them to do it.

    13. Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More importantly, why would you want things to be made in the USA?

    14. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Think of the political narrative these days... Which party wants to bad mouth the economy and which wants to sing it's praises? Which story is being covered in the press?

      I'll leave you to think about the implications.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    15. Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Dell, Cisco, Juniper Networks and Hewlett Packard Enterprise warn the new taxes could result in US job losses. The firms are worried the tariffs will increase their costs since many of their components come from China."

      https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45443004

      Let's make the Chinese wall great again!

    16. Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to hear about your loss, I think you've posted that before.

      Did you find writing about it helped you heal?

      I recently lost a loved one and am having problems letting it go and accepting it. Thanks in advanced, and thanks for sharing Sue with us, it is appreciated.

    17. Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Labor costs, most likely.

  2. Of course. How else are they ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... going to get those backdoors in there?

  3. But for how long? by DMJC · · Score: 2

    Sure they still do, but China is beginning to manufacture X86 CPUs directly. It's only a matter of time until they catch up and crush Intel and AMD through undercutting, and throwing money at the problem. https://www.tomshardware.com/n...

    1. Re:But for how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome! Cheaper CPUs!

    2. Re:But for how long? by DalM · · Score: 1

      In the long run, yes. Probably not really soon. There are plenty of significant advances happening that space right now. They might market to the far low end PCs, but they aren't the market AMD and Intel really want anyway.

    3. Re:But for how long? by jon3k · · Score: 1

      By then (10-20 years, if they're lucky) the desktop will be commoditized and mobile (ie laptops) mostly replaced with ARM. All the growth is in the server market and China is a long, long way from producing an X86 CPU that can compete with Intel Xeons. Who knows what the landscape will look like by then.

    4. Re:But for how long? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      As long as the NRO needs hand crafted space CPU products.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:But for how long? by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      But who will people trust to make their CPU's. Intel with their "management engine" and AMD etc all with the same is already freaking enough people out.

      Who is going to want a Chinese CPU with who knows what running on it that you will never be able to see, has access to everything, and can do anything it wants to "your computer" and "your data".
      Most countries would probably just ban them like they are doing for 5G telecom equipment already.

    6. Re: But for how long? by adolf · · Score: 1

      This will also be the year of Linux on the desktop!

    7. Re: But for how long? by tsa · · Score: 1

      Yeah, paradise is near!

      --

      -- Cheers!

    8. Re: But for how long? by adolf · · Score: 1

      We're on the home stretch, boys!

    9. Re:But for how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who knows what the landscape will look like by then.

      Well, by then the Chinese middle class have grown so much that they will be too expensive and they will manufacture the commodities in Africa instead. (Or maybe they will make a deal with North Korea to get access to their cheap work force.)

      Sucks for anyone not investing and building infrastructure in third world countries right now.

    10. Re: But for how long? by tsa · · Score: 1

      What a beautiful world this will be.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    11. Re: But for how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *ahem* "systemd"

    12. Re: But for how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a glorious time to be free.

    13. Re:But for how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will never be able to crush because they don't innovate. They copy. As long as you are copying your competitors you will always be second-tier.

    14. Re:But for how long? by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      They got a license to produce AMD X86 CPUs for China only sales:
      https://arstechnica.com/inform...

      That future is now.

    15. Re:But for how long? by jon3k · · Score: 1

      I'm well aware they have a license. Do you believe the first generation x86 CPU from China will compete with Intel CPU? Because they won't. They are (many) years away from being able to compete with Intel.

    16. Re:But for how long? by pezezin · · Score: 1

      We already have American CPUs doing exactly what you describe. As an European myself, I don't know the difference between being spied on by the Americans or the Chinese.

    17. Re:But for how long? by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      We already have American CPUs doing exactly what you describe.

      Yes. Thats the reason I said it.
      You personally may not care. But your government might. If you see the fuss being made already with China being banned for 5G telecom tenders. It will only be worse for CPU's with backdoors as well.

    18. Re:But for how long? by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      It's a clone of the AMD EPYC! Of course it can compete with a Xeon.

      Also it's not like China doesn't have the ability to design CPUs. It's just that X86 is a patent minefield. So even if they produced a chip they couldn't sell it worldwide without the blessing of both AMD and Intel. Just ask NVIDIA.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      The above processor is used in their Sunway supercomputer. It's more equivalent to a GPU or Cell architecture than a CPU though. It's a mesh network of CPU cores on a chip.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      The SW-3 SW1600 is a four-issue superscalar

      If anything their issue has been they have not used high end manufacturing processes to make the chips. They are probably under embargo and can only use design rules two process generations behind. Notice that they even used SMIC to manufacture that processor to ensure the supply wouldn't be cut. However pretty soon they will have better sources to manufacture chips in China. Like TSMC:
      https://www.eetimes.com/docume...

      That's a 14/16nm fab. It is still two process nodes behind but it's still way better than what SMIC can produce which is 28nm.

  4. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I work for one of them.

  5. Yeah, but . . . by dtmos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    . . . computer chips with state-of-the-art lithography soon all will be manufactured overseas. Specifically, they will be made by exactly two companies, Samsung and TSMC, with GlobalFoundries' recent announcement that it is stopping development of its 7nm process. GF operated the old IBM facility in Fishkill, NY, and AFAIK was the last company offering state-of-the-art foundry services with a fab in the US.

    Intel is still in business, of course, and even has a foundry business, but it cannot seem to successfully operate it -- substantially all of its wafer starts are chips of its own design. With the capital cost of each new-generation fab reaching $20 billion, it's only a matter of time until Intel -- which has only its internal product base of chip designs to fill its fabs, while Samsung and TSMC make chips for the entire industry -- can no longer afford the move to the next generation.

    If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go except Samsung and TSMC. It will be interesting to see what politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.

    1. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder why Apple hasn't gotten into chip manufacturing. $20 billion is less than a 10th of their cash reserves (last I checked) and there are always rumors about them moving to their own system again.

    2. Re:Yeah, but . . . by DalM · · Score: 2

      The same reason they haven't produced a car yet. They could, but they don't want to. They have good deals with their current suppliers, so why make that investment?

    3. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel should focus on lowering the barrier to entry so it becomes easier for people to do one off runs of 100 units.
      Release the cell libraries they use, and develop some open source layout placing and routing tools.
      When that is available they can get academics, and people tinkering with their own little designs who have some money to pay for this shit.
      Once you have free tools and low barrier to entry you will also see an explosion in companies making chips to do various signal processing instead of using DSPs.
      Don't even need to build latest processes.
      Anything below 20nm is already good enough for those purposes.

    4. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ThEre eXists Another SIlicoN STaR in the United states of aMErica Never-The-lesS

    5. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      computer chips with state-of-the-art lithography soon all will be manufactured overseas...If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go except Samsung and TSMC.

      This bullshit is fake. Make an unsubstantiated claim of the future, then treat that prediction as present fact.

      That's what got Musk into trouble, Trump into trouble, and news media untrusted.

      It's the current zeitgeist surely, but downvote this bullshit.

    6. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Option (3) mysterious problems start happening at Samsung and TSMCs fabs...

    7. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Graymalkin · · Score: 4, Informative

      State of the art lithography is not a synonym for high-performance computer chips. In fact for a lot of uses, DoD included, state of the art lithography is nowhere in the requirements. Hardened chips on robust/insulated substrates is more important in many uses than smaller die traces.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    8. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.

      Well that's an easy as shit choice: B.

      All you have to do is mutter "national security" and in come the billions.

    9. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel is already subsidized with military and municipal contracts requiring made-in-the-US desktops and servers CPUs along with certain encryption export restrictions keeping Intel in the US.

      It's why they're so messed up right now. Their whole "tech-tree" was corrupted around having an inflated income stream that the US could only afford by sinking into debt and H1Bs from other countries since they don't pay enough taxes to cover the education system's expenses so the US isn't producing enough engineers to be self-sufficient. It's actually a US-wide industrial issue where everything Made-In-America costs twice to make and works half as well (per-dollar) with few exceptions.

      Why, just look at Lockheed and Apple: The moment they started suckling off Uncle Sam's tit, their exports went down hill. A few generations later and they can't even sell overseas without a friendly face in a foreign government official getting bribed.

    10. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not forget there is still IBM and Global Foundries. Intel and tsmc are on frontlines of next gen process, Samsung is not far behind.
      There are also many fabs specializing in memory and anything IoT related.

    11. Re:Yeah, but . . . by KalvinB · · Score: 2

      They'll be subsidized under issues of national security if they're really needed by the government. The government generally doesn't run bleeding edge technology so the chips that can be produced in the US will be plenty sufficient for government needs. If the government ever needs a $20 billion plant, they'll cut a check under the national defense budget.

      We've been comfortable with foreign made chips for decades in the consumer market. Unless there is a severe national security issue that won't change. As much as China would like to bug every cell phone and computer at the chip level, it would be economic suicide. Threats will continue to exploit bugs designed into chips and software for the foreseeable future. Tampering directly with a chip is far easier to detect at the plant than after the fact with software exploits.

    12. Re:Yeah, but . . . by nateman1352 · · Score: 1

      TI doesn't have state-of-the-art lithography for digital. They gave up on the Moore's Law race 10 years ago after they reached 45nm. TI realized during the development of WinRT that building CPUs requires very expensive fabs and if you are not an x86 supplier then your only option is to make ARM chips, which is a race to the bottom with very thin margins. TI realized they can make more money building mixed signal designs on older process.

    13. Re: Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you slant it so that the fact that Intel doesn't make chips for other fabless companies is a bad thing?

    14. Re:Yeah, but . . . by nateman1352 · · Score: 2

      Intel has the same fundamental problem with foundry that AMD had 10 years ago. Every 3rd party company does not trust Intel to prioritize their products over Intel's own products. Intel will always build their own products on the latest process node first. If you fab with Intel then your wafers will always get 2nd priority over Intel's own wafers. The only way that is not the case is if you are such a huge customer that your contract requires Intel to construct an entire new factory just for you. Then you have to be able to guarantee an enormous wafer volume... the only company large enough to generate that much demand is Apple. If you are smaller than Apple, then you are competing with Intel's own products in the same factory. So basically, you either have to be a huge volume customer or a small volume customer, otherwise a fundamental conflict of interest exists. If you are small volume, then you also have the problem that once you threaten to move back to TSMC Intel might just buy your company like what happened with Altera.

      AMD realized this, came to the (correct!) conclusion that their own products would not generate enough volume to pay for building a 32nm fab. So the only way to get significant 3rd party foundry business was to spin off their manufacturing group as a separate company (Global Foundries.) That way Global Foundries could be a neutral 3rd party that would take orders from anyone. Intel would have to become a fabless company and sell their fab to get significant foundry business.

    15. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lithography sizes are mostly LIES now, just compare Intel's 10nm vs Samsung and TSMC 7nm. Wikipedia link with references

    16. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe some venture capitalists will start a new manufacutimg company focused on, you know, making chips, instead of all the bullshit Intel wastes it's money on, like purchasing McAfee and others. Intel may become a customer of this new company.

    17. Re: Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that 8051 based CPUs are not the most cutting edge in the world? Or have a choice of high quality free compilers?

    18. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure enough, NASA uses hardened old devices for spacecraft, whereas the state of the art processors go into supercomputers and search engines. Guess what makes more money.

    19. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will be interesting to see what politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.

      How about (3) we have Mexico pay for it?

      No guys .. I'm being seriou ... stop laughing!

    20. Re:Yeah, but . . . by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      IBM sold its business to Global Foundries. Global Foundries has announced they won't develop 7nm to compete with TSMC. Intel has delayed its 7nm process because of difficulties.

      Samsung surpassed Intel as the largest chip vendor.

    21. Re:Yeah, but . . . by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      No, AMD threw away its savings to build their next generation fab by buying ATI at a premium over the stock market price at the time ATI's stock price hit all time highs. Had they waited a single year to buy ATI, they could have bought for less than half the price.

      Then there were a lot of shenenigans involved in the GlobalFroundries spin-off which resulted in an investigation which put ex-AMD CEO and later President Hector Ruiz in court and got him expelled as President of GlobalFoundries.

    22. Re:Yeah, but . . . by Agripa · · Score: 1

      IBM sold its business to Global Foundries. Global Foundries has announced they won't develop 7nm to compete with TSMC. Intel has delayed its 7nm process because of difficulties.

      It is not quite that simple. The various companies do not identify processes by feature size in the same way so the Samsung and TSMC 7nm processes are comparable to Intel's 10nm process. And even with that, what matters is cost per transistor which is linked with density but also depends on other things.

  6. USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    USA

    USA

    Trump made this happen! With the POWER OF GOD at his feet, nothing can stop him now! The Power of Christ Compels You! The Power of Christ Compels You! The Power of Christ Compels You!

    1. Re:USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      USA

      USA

      Trump made this happen! With the POWER OF GOD at his feet, nothing can stop him now! The Power of Christ Compels You! The Power of Christ Compels You! The Power of Christ Compels You!

      Shesh.. I guess you are joking cause even though I voted for this guy and still think it was the best choice, I don't equate him with a deity, quite the opposite. He's a loud mouthed guy who tends to spout off before he thinks who's lived a privileged life of riches nearly all his life with a list of sins as tall as trump tower.

      I know, I know, "WOOSH!"

      However, I'd like to point out that he's actually *attempting* to do what he campaigned on, with the possible exception of putting Hillary in Jail. Where it is within his power, he's making good on his promises.

    2. Re:USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When someone can't remember something on his desk not being there later, when someone can't keep the same policy in his mind from one hour to the next, when someone is so looney that EVERYONE knows -+- but stays mum; FEAR...get the book -+- one thing is certain, and that is, this someone is NOT calling the shots. This someone is a puppet. True, many politicos are puppets beholden to the few, not to those who elected them.

      P.S. I did not write that op-ed piece!

  7. but Nike's aren't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and fsck them too.

  8. Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They out-slave-labored you. Their market is controlled, and yet more free. (The neocon/libertarian "free". Which means "... of a conscience / ... of morals / ... from your rights".)

    1. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      China is being challenged by other countries who can offer cheaper labor. China's companies do what their government tells them to do or else. The corporate tax rate in China is 40% of gross. And the majority of those taxes go to enrich the countries leadership. China is on the verge of watching their economic growth decrease every year. Companies wishing to do business in China are facing pushback against handing over their IP to the Chinese government for access to their domestic markets. And the real eye opener is it is actually cheaper to manufacture goods in the US then in China despite the differences of labor costs. The US offers lower corporate tax rates, cheaper real estate, better infrastructure, lower energy costs, an educated workforce, and much lower government meddling. Throw in cheaper shipping costs and China doesn't look so business friendly.

    2. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And the real eye opener is it is actually cheaper to manufacture goods in the US then in China despite the differences of labor costs."
      Hahahahahaha,haha

      The US offers lower corporate tax rates
      nope not for manufacturing exports

      cheaper real estate,
      LOL

      better infrastructure,
      ROFLMAO

      lower energy costs,
      ha

      an educated workforce,
      haha

      and much lower government meddling.
      You got 1 right.

      Throw in cheaper shipping costs and China doesn't look so business friendly. shipping is probably the lowest cost there is

    3. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you need to put down the bong and do a little research.

      The US offers lower corporate tax rates
      nope not for manufacturing exports
      cheaper real estate,
      LOL
      The US has lower corporate tax rates then China all across the board. And have you ever been to China? Real Estate prices are almost 5 times higher than in the US. And not included in the price are the substantial amounts of bribes to get access to faster utility service or obtain simple parking permits. Bribes in China are basically like Tips in the US. And energy costs which include fuel, gas, and electric averages 40% higher than in the US. A gallon of gas in China is about $7 US dollars a gallon. The fuel prices throughout Europe are even higher but so is pretty much everything. People like you should be forced to travel across the world and see what is fact and what is fiction if you insist on comparing other countries against the US. The US is slandered, maligned, and insulted on a daily basis by other countries in an attempt to make their citizens feel like they are out performing the US and any problems they do have were created by the US. These people then turn around and expect the US to give them trade concessions and military protection.

      There is a reason the US is the worlds number one destination when it comes to people trying to enter the US. People looking to legally immigrate and move permanently to the US. People trying to obtain Visas to attend US Universities and Colleges. People trying to grab the coveted H1B Visas enabling them to work in the US. People who overstay their Visas. And finally the number of illegal immigrants willing to risk life and limb to enter the US using any means possible.

    4. Re: Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it was like you said manufactures wouldn't reach china at all

    5. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 3, Funny

      There is a reason the US is the worlds number one destination when it comes to people trying to enter the US.

      Is that reason simple logic?

    6. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pshaw, that's so 19th century. Why make a long term investment in slaves, when you can hire and fire cheap short-term labour at a fraction of the cost!!!

    7. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a reason the US is the worlds number one destination when it comes to people trying to enter the US.

      Is that reason simple logic?

      US > (****hole country)

      Yes, looks like simple logic to me.

    8. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by Muros · · Score: 1

      There is a reason the US is the worlds number one destination when it comes to people trying to enter the US. People looking to legally immigrate and move permanently to the US. People trying to obtain Visas to attend US Universities and Colleges. People trying to grab the coveted H1B Visas enabling them to work in the US. People who overstay their Visas. And finally the number of illegal immigrants willing to risk life and limb to enter the US using any means possible.

      It depends on how you look at it. These (out of date) figures show that it is the largest in absolute numbers, but that is not really surprising given that the US has the 3rd largest population in the world, and definitely will give you a much better quality of life than the 2 larger ones. If you look at it in terms of net migration compared to the population size, it only comes in at #31.

    9. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      Read it again slowly a couple times, you'll get it eventually.

    10. Re:Because China is more capitalist. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The corporate tax rate in China is 40% of gross.

      Bullcrap.

      I lived in Shanghai, and sat on the board of a Chinese youxiangongsi for several years. There are taxes on net income, and on value added (VAT). There is no tax on gross revenue.

  9. Poor writing in TFA by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Informative

    "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."

    This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:

    "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Poor writing in TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."

      This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:

      "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."

      How is it like living with Asperger's?

    2. Re:Poor writing in TFA by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."

      This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:

      "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."

      I thought that the best chips were designed in Israel for Intel and for others.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  10. Are you sure? by Gabest · · Score: 2, Interesting

    TSMC and Samsung are the leaders in chip making. And second class Intel and AMD both have shady Middle-East ties from Israel and Dubai.

    1. Re: Are you sure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TMSC mostly makes other people's chips. They definitely operate in the spirit of being a Tawnanese company.

    2. Re:Are you sure? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      AMD does not make chips. It designs them. They spun off their foundries as Global Foundries in 2009.

  11. Still somewhat misleading... by YuppieScum · · Score: 4, Informative

    Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently bought out by SoftBank).

    In fact, Broadcom and Nvidia are also licencees of ARM IP as well, but less of their overall product range derives from it.

    --
    This sig left unintentionally blank.
    1. Re:Still somewhat misleading... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently bought out by SoftBank).

      Qualcomm's Kyro ARM cores are based on modified ARM designs. Apple's ARM cores have been pretty independent of ARM's designs. That's why Apple's SoCs can post the benchmarks they do. (They are extremely fast - even the old A10X chips still outrun the latest Samsung chips, which outrun even the SnapDragon 845).

      The only reason Apple is slower is because Apple hasn't put a million CPU cores on it (i think they're up to 3 cores, while everyone else is posting 4 to 8 cores).

      Apple hired a TON of ASIC designers many years ago (back when the Mac used PowerPC chips - the company Apple acquired made a much improved version of the PowerPC chip right when Apple transitioned to x86. Apple liked it so much they acquired them and a few years later came out with the world's first 64-bit ARM design in production.)

  12. The normal Transition of economies by aberglas · · Score: 1

    1. Primary production
    2. Manufacturing
    3. Services

    Services will keep things going fine. Lawyers, tax accountants, retail and beauty consultants. That is where the growth will come from.

  13. Re:Trump is the antichrist - and here's proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Donald Trump is J.R. Bob Dobbs...and that is worse.

    He was still the better choice in 2016!

  14. So are potato chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know which I prefer!

  15. 4th leading export? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The author must have forgotten about all the military weapons and hardware we export each year...

    1. Re:4th leading export? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The author must have forgotten about all the military weapons and hardware we export each year...

      That's foreign "aid".

  16. Re: Trump is the antichrist - and here's proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump is the Drano president. Sometimes you need a bunch of Drano to flush out your problems.

  17. 13% market share is not good by Goldsmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a crazy article. At the end, it meekly points out that the US has a 13% market share in chip production. Given that the US started this industry, leads in design in this space, leads in capital available for high tech industry, and that the US accounts for 15% to 18% of global GDP, a 13% market share in chip production is very poor performance. This is below what you might expect for a simple commodity that depends only on domestic market size and way below what you'd expect for this industry.

    1. Re:13% market share is not good by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I came here to say this but thanks for adding some numbers to it.

      My nextdoor neighbour is a blacksmith and makes those wonderful "old" style metal works you often see on doors and fences. Having someone make something in the country doesn't mean the industry is alive and well.

    2. Re:13% market share is not good by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      Another issue is that even if you make chips and semiconductors, thats still different from high end production using state of the art technology.
      I.E Brazil has been trying to get a internal industry for electronics for quite some time now, mostly by tariffs instead of long term economic plans. End result is that things like watches, electronic toll, cameras is being made in Brazil for Brazilian marked. So there is many low end silicon on chip products, being made and not exported. And the situation is similar in other parts of the world.
      If you go looking, you will find a place that makes SoC stuff for things like Autopass, various automation, and anything that isn't high end and is economically important. It might be located in small areas, alongside reasonable logistic routes.

    3. Re:13% market share is not good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asian companies do things US companies do not: Favor their own. They will do whatever it takes to only buy chips made there, only use products made there, and their citizens will do the same. The US is not competing in the same kind of space. Americans buy what is cheapest or best quality regardless of who makes it. When one side favors, and one side is pragmatic... the companies who are favored will win out. "Made in the USA" is often derided here these days.

  18. JFC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks asshole. Now asshole-bot-bot is gonna spam the shit out of us with his stupid wife's webpage. Fuck him, fuck her, and now fuck you too.

    1. Re: JFC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Threesome?

    2. Re: JFC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Threesome?

      well sounds like it is atleast a foursome... him, her, the AC and anybody else that wants the 4th spot...

      #"#%32345"#%"#%"#%#"5 -=--=-=_ not-super-mega-uber-just-a-regular Anonymous Coward, and-not-even-the-only-one ##"%#%"613443-==-_!11one

    3. Re: JFC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad he posted it. It helps people like me who have lost someone close to them. Rick is an inspiration.

      Plus, I'd rather see pages like Remember Sue that have actual human emotions and feelings, instead of some amazon spam link from creimer.

  19. Or buy out GlobalFoundries ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and make them use tech and skills ripped from TSMC with their massive government-industrial spying complex.

  20. Re: racists have to misspell everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The country? Do you mean the Taiwan Extremely Autonomous Zone? That's just part of China, right? Are you a racist who doesn't acknowledge there is a Taiwanese national minority on Taiwan kept down by the Han invaders?

    I like to call it Formosa. The Dutch had the right idea.

  21. 13% CPU share is not good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Poor metric. CPUs aren't the only things produced in a semiconductor fab. CPUs are a very very small part of the total.

  22. Re: racists have to misspell everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you the racist WindBourne who doesn't acknowledge there is a Pueblo national minority on Colorado kept down by the White invaders?

    I like to call it Abya Yala. The Dutch had the right idea.

  23. Why aren't they made in Africa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anybody? Or is the answer too obvious - but we aren't allowed to say it, because we have to maintain the idea that IQ is actually caused by the LAND MASS that you happen to be standing on...

    1. Re:Why aren't they made in Africa? by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      It might. If you also happen to breath the air above that land mass.

    2. Re:Why aren't they made in Africa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is obvious why. African countries are riddled with endemic corruption, a result of extreme poverty caused by centuries of colonial exploitation. Companies cannot afford to be held hostage by some local police chief who decides you haven't paid enough to his personal road tax scheme.

    3. Re:Why aren't they made in Africa? by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      BS. Even without the colonial exploitation deep Africa was still behind Europe. It's mostly a jungle where there are tropical diseases like malaria, yellow fever and the like. In many parts of Africa you cannot even pasture large bovines because they'll die from disease. Quite often the pasture animals they use are small and kept indoors most of the time in small huts. The countries themselves quite often are kind of like Papua New Guinea. With multiple tribes in the same nation state who neither speak the same language, quite often do not have the same religion, and consider themselves a different race altogether. Ever since the USA and the Soviet Union kicked out the colonial empires from Africa pray tell how much they have advanced since then. What actually happened was a regression in a lot of cases. While the European colonial powers had the capital to invest in infrastructure and in many cases did so, right now many of the African countries simply do not have the capital for investment. Unless they happen to be sitting on a pile of oil and even that has slided down in price from its peak in 2010.

  24. Re: Trump is the antichrist - and here's proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You'll excuse me if I don't drink that particular batch of koolaid.

  25. E x p l a i n T h i s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The latest news from Global Foundries in New York:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-27/globalfoundries-gives-up-on-advanced-chip-production-technology

    Qualcom in San Diego

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/19/technology/qualcomm-layoffs/index.html

  26. So we kow what the next round in the trade war... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    ... will be.

    Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil.

    So, import tariffs on US-made (or just "foreign made", for "foreign" meaning "not in ASEAN, EU, etc) will increase to strangle the export of them until the US plants either shut down or have to drop their export prices drastically.

    {SLOW HANDCLAP] for the Tiny-Handed Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"