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Swiss Village Votes for Free Money. Now It Just Needs the Cash (bloomberg.com)

Posted by msmash on from the worth-a-shot dept.

A village in Switzerland has decided to go ahead with an experiment on basic income, with a payout of 2,500 francs ($2,570) per month. The next step is to raise money to finance the plan via crowdfunding. From a report: More than 50 percent of the inhabitants of Rheinau, close to the German border, signed up for the project, according to the organizers website. At least half the 1,300 inhabitants needed to say 'yes,' and the count stood at 692 on Monday. The submitted ballots still have to be checked against government data to ensure eligibility. The decision comes two years after a proposal for a nationwide unconditional state stipend failed to pass in a national vote. Rheinau, on the banks of the river Rhine an hour by train from the banking hub of Zurich, was selected by filmmaker Rebecca Panian for the basic income trial. She says she became fascinated by the notion during the national debate before up the 2016 vote, decided to select a village as a guinea pig, and make a documentary.

19 of 191 comments (clear)

  1. The same thing is going on in thunder bay by themusicgod1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and, surprisingly, all the groups involved (city, the council of canadians, 'humans of basic income')...none of them have the budget and all expect someone else to pick up the tab for their free money. Funny how that works.

    --
    GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    1. Re:The same thing is going on in thunder bay by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Usually socialism fails when you run out of OPM (other people's money).

      This is more efficient, since they are skipping that step.

      --
      GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.

    2. Re: The same thing is going on in thunder bay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      In none of those was "all the money in just one pot". FFS,in 1929, the US GDP was $100 billion. Of that, only $15 billion was all investments in all markets! $80 billion was personal expenditures; that is, money earned and spent by individuals.

      France and Rome, capitalist? You think feudal societies are capitalist?! Do you even know what that word means?

    3. Re: The same thing is going on in thunder bay by c6gunner · · Score: 2

      Governments are simply a true monopoly on violence

      A monopoly on violence is the one thing which stable societies actually require. Gang warfare is what happens when you have entities which cannot take their conflicts before impartial central courts, and must thus resort to violence. Those occur even in societies in which the government is generally able to maintain a monopoly on violence, simply because the alternative dispute resolutions which it offers are unavailable to the criminal element. In societies where the government is completely incapable of enforcing a monopoly on violence you end up with rival warlords setting up their own little kingdoms.

    4. Re: The same thing is going on in thunder bay by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

      https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/ameri...

      Throughout the 18th century, France faced a mounting economic crisis. A rapidly growing population had outpaced the food supply. A severe winter in 1788 resulted in famine and widespread starvation in the countryside

  2. Like all things socialist as by oldgraybeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ex UK PM Margaret Thatcher said
    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
    Margaret Thatcher said

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    1. Re:Like all things socialist as by SoulMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that basic income doesn't require governmental control of all businesses, which is what "socialism" actually is. Basic income (and social programs like welfare) might seem "socialist" because that's what you've been told, but they are not - they do not require public ownership/control of business. Single-payer-government-run health care on the other hand, is totally socialist (because the system is run by the public a.k.a. government).

      In America, the shining example we have of socialism is the Interstate Highway System (most roads really). It is 100% unequivocally socialist with the tiny exception of states that have been retain pieces as toll roads for various reasons, but those pieces can't use federal funds.

      socialism

      noun
      a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

      -SM

    2. Re:Like all things socialist as by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would say that a UBI is about the least socialist form of redistributive wealth policies. I fully understand and appreciate the argument that we shouldn't be doing that at all, but the current reality is that the U.S. spends about $2.5 trillion per year on programs like Social Security, Medicare, etc. as non-discretionary spending. That comes out to about $7,500 annually for each person living in the U.S. That's including non-citizens and minors. If you remove them, you're probably above $10,000 per adult citizen.

      That's a sufficient amount of money to subsist in most parts of the country without doing anything but staying on the dole. The reality is that we already have a massive wealth redistribution system in the U.S., but it's such a poorly designed mess of various programs, rules, and bureaucracy not even the Japanese could make it function efficiently.

      There are a lot of things you can do with a UBI that are utterly stupid, but that doesn't mean that a UBI is necessarily bad. Even free market advocates like Milton Friedman proposed solutions like a negative income tax that fundamentally amount to a UBI. Just avoid doing the stupid things that incentivize undesirable behavior (e.g., don't give parents additional UBI for each kid they have and if you do give kids a UBI, lock it away until they reach adulthood) and it's going to be a much better system than the mess we have now. Of course, adopting a UBI probably necessitates other changes (immigration, etc.) but it's a better system than what we've got right now and we could probably get away with spending less for better outcomes.

  3. Create a Cyber currency by jfdavis668 · · Score: 3, Funny

    And pay everyone with it. It worked for Venezuela.

  4. Another, But It Will Work This time, scenario? by BrookHarty · · Score: 4, Informative

    Didn't most of the basic income projects fail, and this says the government wouldn't be able to fund it?!

    What am I missing here, how is this not just socialism (or communism) being called something else? That money has to come from somewhere, this trial is donation based, but if this was at the national level it would have to be funded by the the workers, which by this account is less than 1/2 of the people. Why would someone paying most of their wages want to it taxed at over 50% to support people not wanting to work?

    Wouldnt it be better for them to just start a commune in some remote area, where the cost of living is extremely low, and let each person contribute? If its so easy they should be able to get people to join freely, with some doing all the work, and some people just living off everyone else's hard work. No hard feelings right?

    How you can fund this "Utopia" without taking workers income or owning the corporations to milk them, seems impossible.

    When countries are increasing the retirement age, you can be many people in their late 50's will want to quit, working sucks.

    1. Re:Another, But It Will Work This time, scenario? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All the people pushing for this basic income never own up to the fact as who will be paying. Ask them flat out where the money will come from and they will tell you to read this article or watch some video on the subject. The bottom line is it's going be taken from the middle class. Tax rich people enough and they'll simply move, or move their assets overseas.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    2. Re:Another, But It Will Work This time, scenario? by tkotz · · Score: 2

      Socialism or communism can at least work in theory as there is an economic flow between the individuals and government. Maybe with reduced freedoms or rampant inflation, but there is a money cycle.
      This is just begging. They state the government can't support it, so it is just a city wide crowdfunding scheme. I'd say scam , but they are at least open about it. It's unsustainable and they obviously have no intention of sustaining it. It really is a testament to something that almost half the voters, voted against just taking handouts from other people.

  5. WTF? Crowdsource it? by BBF_BBF · · Score: 3, Informative
    The only way the experiment will yield anything close to credible results is for the "basic income" to be self funded. As in the village pays for it by taxing citizens earning money above the basic income more to make up for the ones not able to pay taxes and just collect.

    .

    If it is funded by outside sources it'll be a love fest since nobody in the village has skin in the game and people just get free money without having to take it from other citizens in the same village.

  6. Sounds like by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Funny

    They ran out of other peoples' money before they even started.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  7. I got it!! by oldgraybeard · · Score: 3, Funny

    They should start a GoFundMe page and everyone world wide will send them money ;) And every place else can start GoFundMe pages also and then everyone will send money to everyone world wide ;) And poof you have a socialist world ;)

    1. Re:I got it!! by fibonacci8 · · Score: 2

      Congratulations, you've invented partial reserve banking.

      --
      Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
  8. There was never a lack of people wanting by SPopulisQR · · Score: 2

    There was never a lack of people wanting to give other people money out. As long as the distributor is better off, there will always be people saying that you need to give money to others. There is nothing wrong sharing with other people, but wrong when somebody else decides for you where the money go.

  9. "Crowdsourcing"? by markdavis · · Score: 2

    Wait- so they are voting themselves free money, and then "crowdsourcing" (I guess online begging) to pay for it? Who do they expect will donate money to such a thing and why would they?

    Why not just put the town on "gofundme" with a description of "We want your money, because we want to give it to our citizens. Please give us money, we like money and would like some free money. Thanks"

  10. Re:ridiculous by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm a proponent of UBI, but this plan is ridiculous. You've basically just seen what happens when you let the lower 50%ile vote for a wage increase (spoiler: they'll say yes every time).

    And that is why, in the US, we have a Senate with equal representation per State, and we have an Electoral College for the Presidential election. Mob rule really does break down, eventually...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!