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Citing 'Moral Requirement To Make Money', Pharma CEO Jacks Drug Price 400% (arstechnica.com)

The chief executive of a small pharmaceutical company defended hiking the price of an essential antibiotic by more than 400 percent and told the Financial Times that he thinks "it is a moral requirement to make money when you can." From a report: Nirmal Mulye, CEO of the small Missouri-based drug company Nostrum Laboratories, raised the price of bottle of nitrofurantoin from $474.75 to $2,392 last month. The drug is a decades-old antibiotic used to treat urinary-tract infections caused by Escherichia coli and certain other Gram-negative bacteria. The World Health Organization lists nitrofurantoin as an essential medicine. In an interview with the FT, Mulye went on to say it was also a "moral requirement" to "sell the product for the highest price," and he explained that he was in "this business to make money."

28 of 670 comments (clear)

  1. Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But maybe it's what they teach at MBA courses.

    Anyhow, time to decommercialise medicine. Yes, I know it sounds pinko commie socialist. Even so.

    1. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But maybe it's what they teach at MBA courses.

      Anyhow, time to decommercialise medicine. Yes, I know it sounds pinko commie socialist. Even so.

      Why do you think markets can't correct this type of behavior?

      "Goodwill" is also an asset - one that's actually quite valuable.

      This CEO just shat all over whatever goodwill his company had.

    2. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by fishscene · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I reckon the same logic can be applied for taxes for this company too. It's a moral requirement for the federal government to make money.. by jacking up your corporate taxes by 400%.

    3. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by layabout · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Markets can't correct this behavior because drugs are effectively a monopoly situation. Not just from the patent perspective but from the biological. When treating a condition, it's not uncommon to find that a patient can't tolerate one drug but can another. A classic example of this is statins. The protocol for using statin says if a patient can't tolerate the cheap ones, gradually try the increasingly more expensive ones until you find one that works. If the patient can only tolerate one particular drug to treat a condition, there is no market (i.e. only one supplier, the drug that works). The only power the patient has is to decide whether or not to treat the condition. There is no way the patient can put any pressure on the drug manufacturer to change pricing. If anything, the drug manufacturer is saying "you want to live? Don't ask about the price, just pay it."

    4. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Calydor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, this is just how a sociopath thinks. Quite literally, a sociopath thinks that anything that benefits him (regardless of what happens to the rest of the world) is morally right.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    5. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Sperbels · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you think markets can't correct this type of behavior?

      Because the notion that the market can fix everything isn't real and is akin to a religious belief.

    6. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Drugs are effectively a monopoly situation due to government intervention. First, government agencies regulate what can and can't be sold as a drug. There may be a perfectly good medicine that already exists and is being sold in other countries, but if it's not FDA approved, you may be SOL. It's illegal for anyone to sell that medication to you. Second, governments enforce intellectual property rights which create a monopoly. The countries that don't respect or enforce these IP rights can churn out some of these $2,000 medicines for under a dollar. The process for extending (or granting new) IP rights for minor changes to a drug's chemistry is also abused, which can create perpetual monopolies.

      You can't claim that markets fail to correct for a behavior when a government has made it explicitly impossible for them to do so. It's no more fair that the conservative argument that government can't work effectively after it's been defunded or otherwise crippled. If you violate the preconditions, there's no guarantee of the postconditions. That much should be obvious regardless of context.

      I'm not suggesting that we need a completely laissez-faire system where anyone can sell whatever they want as medication either. You don't need to have a system of pure government control or a complete lack of it. However, you can't make it illegal for competition to exist or make it insanely expensive to certify medications without expecting the prices to be high.

    7. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Sperbels · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The government (at least ostensibly) represents the people. The market represents the will of a couple of rich people.

    8. Re: Making money is not a "moral requirement" by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've got that exactly backwards, I'm afraid.

    9. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by bondsbw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      However, you can't make it illegal for competition to exist ... without expecting the prices to be high.

      Yes we can. We regulate them.

      What we can't do is assume the free market will sort out a situation when we can't allow free market conditions.

      I love free market competition. It works in the vast majority of economic situations. But it cannot work for markets we must heavily regulate and we shouldn't try to force it.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    10. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Zmobie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can the law of supply (his lab's production) and demand (price people are willing to pay) make this self-regulating?

      This is the inherent flaw in that type of argument and the main reason that healthcare needs to be single-payer and pharma companies (and other medical type companies) need to be heavily regulated. Demand is not, "price people are willing to pay", demand in the healthcare world is how healthy do people want to be. Incidentally this is always as healthy as they can be (and fun fact, in many cases if a person decides they don't want to be healthy we consider that to be a disease, potentially even criminal!). This is why healthcare costs go up every year and don't actually ever go down.

      Building on this, basic macro-ecnomoics tells us that the supply and demand of a free market is supposed to rise and fall against each other until a general state of price equilibrium is attained. Want to know what happens when demand literally will not (possibly cannot if we want the species to survive) fall? The price can be raised ad infinitum. The execs and many of their politician buddies know this, but they don't ever acknowledge it. Healthcare is literally a money pit if left in the current system and will far out pace wage earnings in all industries eventually. If you don't believe me look at the wage growth over the past several years vs healthcare costs for yourself.

      Based on these simple facts (and yes I do mean facts), to me, there is really only one way to fix this appropriately. By changing the system and acknowledging that you cannot apply a free market model to healthcare in any sustainable way. Pricing and costs would be regulated and made equal across socio-economic areas/demographics and then we take all of that excess money that was a result of price gouging and reinvest that into medical research, hospitals, etc. Seriously if we switch to a single-payer system tomorrow we would actually SAVE money as a country.

      Most sane people are not asking the business to operate for free or at a loss. They are allowed to make a profit, but not to gouge it simply because they recognized the flaw in the current system. The numbers have been stated over and over, we pay by far the most money per person into healthcare of any 1st world country. If we used that money to improve healthcare availability we would have an affordable system for everyone that you don't have to wait forever for anything to happen. Everyone loves citing Canada having long waits, but that is only for more difficult procedures or tests and even then they are not the only country with universal healthcare (and gasp! there are countries that don't have that same issue).

      For me, the solution is sitting right in front of us, but because of the fervor like devotion many people have to "free-market" everything we can't actually implement it yet. This, just like with everything else, is a perfect example of there is no one-size fits all solution for all problems and we as a country need to stop acting like that.

    11. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And who's going to develop new drugs once you decommercialize medicine?

      The same people who have always developed new drugs: Scientists, working in labs, trying to do good work. Corporations do not develop drugs. Those scientists would be just as happy working in a well-funded lab at a university.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re: Making money is not a "moral requirement" by TheMeuge · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I can tell you have never lived in Russia, China, or any other country with centralized power in government's hands. You'd know the government almost never represents the people.

    13. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > but the regulations could be modernized and improved.

      They certainly could - patents could be made perpetual, and it could be made illegal to make a drug that competes in any way with any competitor's drug.

      Oh, you meant better for patients and the public good? First we'd need to hire politicians that are more interested in serving the public good than lining their pockets. Good luck with that.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    14. Re:Making money is not a "moral requirement" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The polio vaccine was not a drug...

      OK, fair enough.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Corporations do develop drugs.

      I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: A corporation is a legal fiction created by a government granting a charter. Their purpose is to minimize liability for the owners and to create a tax benefit for aggregated capital. Period. That's all they are. That's all they do. No corporation has ever developed anything but shareholder value. Certainly, no corporation has ever developed a drug.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  2. sad by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The sad part is, if making money can be called a "moral requirement", apparently it is more important than the truly moral cause of healing as many people as possible.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  3. He's not wrong by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    if you accept the premise of private, for profit insurance as a means to access medicine and healthcare and that these companies will be privately traded companies with shareholders then yes, that's where the moral imperative lies. This is one of the consequences of such a system.

    We already know the solution is single payer healthcare. We can see it working in a dozen countries. The question is will we swallow our pride long enough to vote the sorts of people in that'll give it to us?

    --
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  4. This man gives off by fredrated · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the stench of evil.

  5. Another one of these by Kohath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are no patents on this. It's an old medication. What keeps other companies from selling exactly the same substance? Answer: Government regulation.

    Government needs to do more to help more companies make these medicines at reasonable prices.

    1. Re:Another one of these by suutar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the requirement to get FDA approval to manufacture, which is at least time consuming and possibly expensive.

  6. Yep by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is exactly how for-profit industries work.

    Maybe instead of trying to find ways to make for-profit healthcare marginally less of a roiling tire fire for Americans, we should instead nationalize healthcare, like the rest of the civilized world.

    :|

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

  7. I think he needs to read the dictionary by haibane · · Score: 3, Insightful

    moral (môrl, mr-) adj. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary. adj. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson. adj. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.

  8. Re:Same Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Europeans and Canadians aren't starving.

    In fact, they are far better off than the average american.

    Americans are just too uneducated and unenlightened to see the benefits of proper socialised medicine.

  9. Re:Same Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    People in Canada and Sweden get government-facilitated health care but under different systems. Corporations get welfare in the US and the public get potable drinking water and interstate highways under different systems.

    None of that has anything to do with Communism though, nor are they pure socialism either. Only retarded Republican ideologues can't grasp the social aspect of helping society as a whole, fight it with full-on uneducated fears.

  10. Locked in an airtight room by jenningsthecat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd love to have that guy locked in an airtight room. "I can sell you some air - it only costs $5000 per litre, cash up front." "But, but... I don't have that much cash on me!" "Well, I'm sorry sir, but it's a moral imperative for me to make as much money as I possibly can. Ten thousand people who suffered badly because of your drug-price gouging want to do a group buy of all these air tanks. Unless you can beat what they're offering, I'll have to sell it all to them - it's just the right thing to do!"

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  11. Re:Same Thing by Rob+Y. · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously, your 'invisible hand of Supply vs Demand' isn't working in this particular Capitalist case. The problem is our perverted version of Capitalism. We grant monopolies on pharmaceuticals, and then act in total denial of the ways monopoly distorts supply and demand.

    So, I'll grant this guy his 'moral imperative' to charge as much as he can. As long as we recognize (and insist on) Government's moral imperative to fix the distortions of the market caused by, yes, important government interventions like patent protection. I.e., there needs to be a government enforced limit on how much as he can charge. And then let the market work its magic within that reasonable playing field. And if the market doesn't work in all cases - well, maybe those gaps need to be filled by the government too. That's not fascism or slavery or any of the hyperbolic anti-government names you want to use. It's just a simple acknowledgement of reality.

    --
    Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
  12. Re:Same Thing by j-beda · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LOL!

    Who decides what is "needed"?

    Who decides what is a, "priority"?

    Do they just give you a pill and send you home?

    Yeah! We don't want a faceless government bureaucracy ultimately beholden to elected officials to set health policy! We want all our healthcare decisions to be made by a faceless corporate bureaucracy ultimately beholden to shareholders! Clearly that is the one true path to success!

  13. Taxes don't make money by Solandri · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Legitimate business transactions make money because a legitimate business transaction is a benefit to both buyer and seller. The seller sells the item because he's being paid more than it cost him to make or acquire. The buyer buys the item because it's worth more to him than the price that's being charged. That is, legitimate economic transactions are positive-sum.

    Taxes transfer money. And inefficiently at that (you have to pay someone to calculate the taxes, pay to make the payment, and pay someone to collect the taxes). That is, taxation is negative-sum. So taxes in and of themselves cannot make money.

    Taxation can be a net gain if the tax revenue is spent on things which benefit the economy more than the amount of money spent. For example, building a road may cost $1 million. But if the amount of money saved by companies transporting goods due to the new road exceeds a cumulative $1 million, then the road is a net benefit and spending to build it was worth it. So government spending can make money, but taxation on its own cannot. However, unlike a business, there is no inherent pressure to force a government to make sure all spending of tax revenue is justified in this manner. That is, a government can't go bankrupt if it wastes money - it can just continue to raise taxes to pay for wasteful spending, up until the amount of its spending equals the sum total productivity of all its citizens (effectively approaching 100% taxation, which is what leads to the runaway inflation Venezuela is experiencing).

    In this particular situation, the "proper" price for the drug is the one which maximizes revenue. If the company sets the price too high, then sales decrease enough to offset the higher price, and the company makes less money. The "proper" price is when (units sold)*(price per unit - cost to produce) = a maximum. At that price, the drug is being distributed most efficiently - an equal split in the benefit of the drug between the buyer and the seller. In this way, if the benefit is extremely large, the profit is large, which attracts other manufacturers to enter the market, thus increasing competition and lowering prices (sellers take a smaller cut of the benefit).

    Usually when these situations crop up where a company can jack up the price beyond reason, it's due to it being the sole supplier (having a monopoly). That's what happened with Epi-pens. Except natural monopolies are extremely rare, and AFAIK every one which has formed has been dealt with with anti-trust regulations. The remaining monopolies are all due to poor government regulation. In the case of Epi-pens, it was the FDA approval process raising the cost of entry for any competitor so high that nobody else felt it was worth entering the market (competing with an established supplier could lower the price to just above manufacturing cost, meaning it could take decades to make back enough money to pay for the FDA approval process).

    According to wiki, Nitrofuratoin has been around since 1953. There are generic versions available, so it would appear the patents on it have expired. The only people having to pay the exorbitant new price are those who insist on buying the name-brand version instead of the generic version. If the generic version is not available for sale in the U.S., then that's a problem with the FDA approval for manufacturing the generic, not with a company jacking up prices. Unfortunately, TFA never explores this aspect of the problem since it appears to be a single-minded hit piece against pharmaceutical companies.