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China Now the Most Prolific Contributor To Physical Sciences, Engineering, and Math (bloomberg.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Thirty years ago in December, the modern exchange of scholars between the U.S. and China began. Since then, Chinese academics have become the most prolific global contributors to publications in physical sciences, engineering and math. Recent attempts by the U.S. to curtail academic collaboration are unlikely to change this trend. Qingnan Xie of Nanjing University of Science & Technology and Richard Freeman of Harvard University have studied China's contribution to global scientific output. They document a rapid expansion between 2000 and 2016, as the Chinese share of global publications in physical sciences, engineering and math quadrupled. By 2016, the Chinese share exceeded that of the U.S. Furthermore, the authors argue that these metrics -- which are based on the addresses of the authors -- understate China's impact. The data don't count papers written by Chinese researchers located in other countries with addresses outside China and exclude most papers written in Chinese publications. The researchers adjusted for both factors and conclude that Chinese academics now account for more than one-third of global publications in these scientific fields.

30 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. But is it useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now, exclude all papers found to be misleading, wrong or outright fake. How big is China's impact on contributing to the sciences now?

    1. Re:But is it useful? by xandos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      China has been investing massively in science. China has a few really good universities itself, as well as many Chinese people studying in prestigious places abroad who come back to contribute to science in those universities (just as people from every other country in the world do). Science is a global pursuit, and the fact that China puts a large amount of money and manpower towards it means it can contribute significantly. While it was the case (and in some cases still is the case) that China had to catch up to meet the standards of the USA and western countries, they have been catching up quickly and an increasing amount of the work done in China is now groundbreaking. This is not surprising. The only thing you need is smart people, knowledge, and massive funding. And the knowledge-part of that can be learned from scientific publications or the international exchange of scientists.

      If the USA wants to make sure they stay somewhere near the top, they should not attempt to 'curtail academic collaboration'. That doesn't help anyone, and only slows down global science. It also might have the effect that the collaborations will simply move to China-Europe instead of China-USA, which would speed up progress in China and Europe, but not the USA. The only thing that can help the USA stay on top (if they are on top) is to do more and better science than anyone else, not to somehow try to make other people do less or less good science.

    2. Re:But is it useful? by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Note to self: No fake/misleading papers are ever published in the USA.

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      No sig today...
    3. Re: But is it useful? by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Yep.

      George Carlin did all those shows for nothing, his words went right over the heads of most people.

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      No sig today...
    4. Re:But is it useful? by ravenshrike · · Score: 2

      The question is the rate at which such studies were published. Which would itself make for an interesting study.

    5. Re:But is it useful? by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We won't know and we can't know... yet. What really measure the impact of a paper's contribution is its citations. Check back in 5 years and rank countries by citations and you'll have a better idea.

      Going by raw output volume, it shouldn't be surprising if China surpasses the US. Nearly one person in five alive lives in China. If you rank the top ten countries by science and tech research papers, it goes (or rather, went) US, China, Japan, Germany, UK, India, France, Italy, Korea, Canada. But if you rank those countries by per capita output, you get Canada, UK, US, Germany, France, Korea, Italy, China, India.

      On a per capita basis, UK and Canada are very similar, as are the US, Germany, France, Korea, and Italy. China follows far behind that group, and India trails far behind China. That may be because many Indian scholars emigrate overseas, especially to the US. Similarly the US ranking is probably inflated by the large number of immigrant researchers here. As the US becomes less friendly to foreign students and researchers, we can expect our research output to fall both in quality and quantity.

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    6. Re:But is it useful? by sycodon · · Score: 2

      "China has been investing massively in spying...."

      Fixed.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    7. Re:But is it useful? by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 2

      I am a researcher. In my field (educational technology), China is spending *massively*. PhD tenured-professor-level positions, nationwide, number in the tens. Maybe 30 each year. The leading university in China has the following:
        - 120 *new* paid tenured position. They are adding to their *existing* 50, as they've seen significant return (my alma matter has ~13, and is top-ranked).
        - 250 *new* professor assistant positions. Notably, this is more than my alma matters' entire department... This is just for my field.
        - Essentially unlimited postdoctoral and temporary positions for American PhDs. They are flexible on the time - you can choose 12 months, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, or "we'll work it out". If you want to go study in China, the standard offer is "we'll match whatever you make, and pay all your bills (housing, water, electric, phone) to ease the transition."

      I know this because *nearly* *all* of the top researchers in my field have either given a lecture in China (they paid airfare, travel, hotel, and a months' salary for the week of work).

      Their investment is genuine. That said, it will take *at* *least* 5 years to start to show signs of return. That said, they've been doing it for 5 years now...

  2. Fortnite... by Tolvor · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes, but the US has the best Fortnite players. Who's laughing now?

    Cue Alice Cooper's "School's Out"...

    1. Re:Fortnite... by ravenshrike · · Score: 2

      China number 1. Wait, that was 2 games ago. Never mind.

  3. The inevitable by gazelam · · Score: 2

    When you put lots of money into lots of research by lots of people, this is the result. I should expect that Chinese universities have the same requirements for tenure depending on submitting of published work, result: lots of papers.

  4. So far CN scientific papers are mosrtly fraud by sinij · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From what I have seen so far Chinese papers are universally fraud. I am on peer review lists for a number of papers, and from what I have seen it is mostly junk papers that are coming out of China. Not just language, that can be forgiven/edited, but bad methods, obviously cooked data, blatant plagiarism.

    1. Re:So far CN scientific papers are mosrtly fraud by Archtech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That would certainly help to explain why China remains completely unable to build enormous modern cities, high-speed trains, hypersonic missiles, supercomputers, satellites, etc.

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    2. Re:So far CN scientific papers are mosrtly fraud by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      That would certainly help to explain why China remains completely unable to build enormous modern cities, high-speed trains, hypersonic missiles, supercomputers, satellites, etc.

      Well it's easy to build something when you require companies to share their technology for access to their markets, and manufacturing isn't it. So really, they are unable to build those. They're able to make knockoffs that are "good enough."

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  5. Inevitable, really by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are four Chinese for every American, five for every two Europeans. All other things being equal, they're going to become the dominant country in everything.

    The only country that's going to be close is India (again, all other things being equal).

    Lacking a major war, or internal political factors, the Chinese and Indians are going to dominate the world over the next couple centuries, and the USA is going to go the way of the UK - a nation that dominated "back then"....

    Note, for the record, that I don't think "all other things being equal" actually applies. I don't think either China or India can liberalize enough to allow their inherent advantages to really take hold. But you never can tell....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:Inevitable, really by Archtech · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wonder how many contributors to this thread are aware that, until the 19th century, China and India were far and away the world's dominant economic powers?

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      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    2. Re:Inevitable, really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      My guess is all of them except the ones familiar with history. Prior to the 1800s you're going to claim China and India as the major economic powers? India didn't exist in the 1700s for effs sake. It was a hodge podge of countries and weren't under singular rule until the UK and the East India Company invaded and colonized the area. China was crippled by opium dens. Again, mostly because of the East India Company.

    3. Re:Inevitable, really by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      And 3000 years ago it was Europe, repeatedly. Then more recently, the dark ages, 1:2 dead from plagues, collapse of societies, organized states, and so on really did a banger on Europe. What should surprise you is after the total collapse of society to the point where the graveyards were overflowing with the dead, European society didn't regress backwards at a screaming rate like say middle eastern countries, northern africa, and so on did.

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      Om, nomnomnom...
  6. Re:Politics by vakuona · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the USA made them mandatory, then yes.

  7. If only... by bpetty · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If only their quality was as high as their quantity.
    One common complaint within scholarly circles in recent times is the unusually low quality of published works coming out of China.
    China is to academic publishing as India is to computer software development. It seems like every other person there is producing this stuff, but only a very small subset produce something worth paying attention to.

  8. Re:Quality of output? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think this factors in what I believe is a higher likelihood for scientific papers originating in China to involve plagiarism and/or fraud.

    Yeah, this is what I came in here to say. It seems like all the obviously fake science that's not printed in an Elsevier journal is coming out of China. Is China actually producing more quality research, or just more paper output?

    --
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  9. Good! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    I know some people recoil at the idea of the advancement of China (for obvious sociopolitical reasons) but the advancement of science is good no matter where it happens. I'm disappointed by the lack of investment in science by my own nation but the advancement of humanity via science is global.

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  10. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-detention-camp.html

  11. China is a slave state by WCMI92 · · Score: 2

    As are all communist regimes. State slavery. There is nothing to admire about them.

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  12. Re:Politics by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So where's it say that some form of religion is mandated by the state in the US? Right. Canada has a heavier influence of religion on it's state then the US, to the point that Catholics were guaranteed protected rights, including a fully functional and separate education system funded by general revenue taxes. And *is* mandated by the state and constitutional law that it must exist.

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    Om, nomnomnom...
  13. US team wins First Place in Math Olympics by mi · · Score: 2

    America's top "mathletes" have won the first place once again this year in the international Math Olympiad.

    The team's group picture, however, is as racist as it gets...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  14. Probably true - but people turn a blind eye by obiwantoby · · Score: 2

    US Elite will work with China at all costs, moral costs. https://newrepublic.com/articl...

  15. copycat research by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 2

    I read a lot of cancer research. China's researchers are repeating a lot of western studies done over the previous half century, which I find useful. But it is not original research.

    I surmise that China genuinely wants to know more about old answers, from the nuts and bolts to basic veracity, find opportunities (lots of them) and to train a generation of its scientists with an answer guide.

  16. Re:Politics by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

    OK, I read TFA. The camps are bad, but they're nowhere near as bad as Hitler's concentration camps. They are not death camps, they're not lifetime imprisonment. They're anti-Muslim "re-education" camps, particularly anti-extreme-Muslim, and apparently there's also some job training going on.

    To summarize: it's not Hitler level evil, it's modern communist level evil.

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  17. Re:Politics by helpfulcorn · · Score: 2

    Perhaps a Christian*, but not a good one, unless you're a Calvinist or a related dogma which believes that you go to heaven no matter what you do just by believing in Jesus, and "accepting him into your heart" whatever that means.

    Salvation in the next life in Roman and Eastern Catholic traditions and most Protestant ones is obtained by being a good Christian and that typically would be defined as someone who tries to be like Jesus, you know, help the poor, don't be a dick, etc -- though being divine is rarely included in this of course. ;-)

    Plus Christianity has a history of revering martyrdom of true believers and those who died trying to help others either by saving their lives or their souls. It isn't condemned, I guess that's different if your messiah and savour is Ayn Rand though.

    *Some of the more extreme ones don't even include you unless you believe and do as they do, but these aren't the mainstream of course.