John Hancock Will Include Fitness Tracking In All Life Insurance Policies (venturebeat.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from VentureBeat: John Hancock, one of the oldest and largest North American life insurers, will stop underwriting traditional life insurance and instead sell only interactive policies that track fitness and health data through wearable devices and smartphones, the company said on Wednesday. The move by the 156-year-old insurer, owned by Canada's Manulife Financial, marks a major shift for the company, which unveiled its first interactive life insurance policy in 2015. It is now applying the model across all of its life coverage. Policyholders score premium discounts for hitting exercise targets tracked on wearable devices such as a Fitbit or Apple Watch and get gift cards for retail stores and other perks by logging their workouts and healthy food purchases in an app. In theory, everybody wins, as policyholders are incentivized to adopt healthy habits and insurance companies collect more premiums and pay less in claims if customers live longer.

Comments

And so it begins

[YrWrstNtmr]

Not fit enough, eat too much red meat, drive too fast....sucks to be you.

tracked on wearable devices such as a Fitbit or Apple Watch
Yeah, THAT will go over well with my employer. Specifically, no smart watches in the building. AT all, ever.

Re:And so it begins

[taustin]

I take responsibility for my life by refusing to use tracking devices that communicate with companies that show no evidence of being able to spelldata security, much less actually implement it.

Particularly since, which the insurance company is bound by HIPPA laws, Fitbit is not.

This will last until the first breach, which is inevitable.

Re:And so it begins

[Anonymous Coward]

This will last indefintely and become the new norm because it saves the greedy fucks money and enables even more data collection. Even better it forces those who wish to avoid such invasions of their lives to submit to them under the threat of medical bankruptcy if they refuse. Always expect greedy fucks to throw you under the bus in the pursuit of more coin, which is inevitable.

FTFY.

If you think this won't last, I invite you to look at the shitstorm that Equifax went through after they were hacked.... they'll be begging us for mercy.... any day now...... /sarcasm

Even if they do get hacked, it will be swept under the rug as SOP, and you'll just loose even more control of your life same as always. Only now if you refuse you won't be able to afford a doctor without leaving the country. To which everyone else in the US will say: "And nothing of value was lost." Because they are all a bunch of fat and stupid sheep. Welcome to the first days of hell, we've all earned it.

Re:And so it begins

[arth1]

Insurance is really just legalized gambling. Much like the tracks, not all horses are a good return on investment. No one wants to bet on a loser and the only reason to do so is because the payout is so high.

While true, what the insurance companies do now is like increasing the betting cost on low ranked horses without increasing the payout. The end result is that no one will go the races any more.

The more you track the customers and better predict their future, the less incentive there is for those customers to buy insurance. If the premiums could reflect your risk with 100% accuracy, you'd lose no matter what. The closer they get to accurate and farther from chaos, the more certain a loss will be, and the less incentive there is to participate.

Re:And so it begins

[Anonymous Coward]

Serious answer: life insurance is geared towards somebody who is a major provider for the family. The idea is that you're bringing in an income to support your family; if you die, the family no longer has that income, and hence could well hit hard times. Having life insurance provides a safety net, so that the rest of the family can continue on without having to worry about how to replace your income. (Think education, food, health, etc.)

If you have children, it may well be worth the premium to know that they won't be hit with hard times if you aren't there. If you don't have children, it probably isn't worth so much. For me - single, no kids, no dependents to speak of - I haven't bothered taking out a life insurance policy; there's no point. If I had children, it might well be a different story.

It might not make sense for your circumstances, and that's fine. But insurance is all about identifying and managing risk - pay a small amount on a regular basis, just in case you have a need for a much larger sum for some unexpected reason. If you can afford the hit of the larger sum, that small amount may not be worth it. If you can't, it may be.

Re:And so it begins

[rockmuelle]

Not sure about the OPs case, but if you work around gear that’s sensitive to RF noise, you don’t want everyone brining their own transmitter to work. Even without a radio, electronics can interfere with sensitive equipment.

Re:And so it begins

[registrations_suck]

"This will last until the first breach, which is inevitable."

Um....yeah. Tell that to Equifax. Virtually no fucking penalties of any significance WHATSOEVER.

I just don't know about this

[OutOnARock]

Its like the auto insurance companies wanting to monitor everything I do in my car.

These should be things that one has to "opt-in" for.

I don't want the "discount" for being on an electronic leash......

There is just something about this that rubs me the wrong way.

useless data sources

[sweet reason]

a friend of mine mentioned that when he wears his fitbit on his right hand and plays his ukulele, his recorded activity level goes through the roof. so getting those insurance discounts while sitting on your couch will be easy. ditto for posted food choices. when the company figures that out their next move will be to become big brother.

Re:useless data sources

[Entrope]

This comment is much funnier if I take "plays his ukelele" as a euphemism.

An example of stupid

[judoguy]

This is so dumb. A tracker would show me as terribly inactive because I can't wear one when I work out. I train and compete in judo and bjj. Hard training, fantastic exercise but you can't wear a damn bracelet or sensor while doing this.

A fitness tracker, like the stupid BMI calculation, would show me as layabout. Every actual measure of my health shows me to be in great health. I'm 65 and compete successfully at a world level in judo and bjj for my age. This is the classic case of how vs what. Look at the actual thing to be measured, not a poorly defined process that tries to look at how something MIGHT be measured. .

another corporate conspiracy ?

[swell]

Back around 1950 a major insurance company with an excellent reputation and very low premium rates set stringent requirements for its customers. Agents would fill in the forms with the usual information for clients; age, address, some medical background, etc. But potential clients had to qualify for the insurance policy. Like any company; older people would pay more for life insurance. People with accidents would pay more for auto insurance. But unlike other companies, many medium risk clients were simply not allowed to buy from this insurance company. At any price. And all approved clients got low premiums and were happy.

But they went beyond that. Agents had a secret checklist for every potential client. Things you might never guess could disqualify you for the money saving policy. One item that has stuck in my memory all this time is this: any potential client who enters the agent's office wearing boots is automatically disqualified.

Actuaries must have determined risk factors far beyond the norm. Perhaps they consulted psychologists and did unusual surveys to come up with odd criteria. Nevertheless, insurance companies take risks and need to protect themselves. If you want cheap insurance from a reliable company, expect to prove that you are worthy.

Re:Progressive Snapshot Hacks

[omnichad]

They're way more likely to pay the claim and drop you

Yeah...that won't work for the life insurance ones. Everyone gets dropped after the first claim.

Gimmick

[fropenn]

This is really just a gimmick by the insurance company to make you think you are getting a better rate. The risk of death - especially for younger people - is really quite low. Even though exercise reduces that risk, it's hard to believe that it would make a meaningful difference in insurance rates (particularly because you don't really need life insurance when you are old). But, it gets them lot of attention and its customers think they are getting a great deal because they are into fitness.

EVERYTHING about this is wrong...

[gosand]

Where I work we have a health plan set up with Virgin Pulse, and everyone is strongly encouraged to get trackers for #of steps etc.
Pretty much everyone has them, because hey - they're cool right? And it automatically uploads your info. Luckily for me, you are still able to manually enter your steps and other info - so I wrote a script I run every morning to go log into the site and enter them. Why would I even bother? Because they charge you a lot more for your policy if you don't. You have to hit a certain goal for the quarter or they penalize you.. whoops, I mean, you don't get the discount. And it is several hundred dollars.

But I REFUSE to be tagged and tracked like a wild animal, all for the sake of "fitness". Which is a total sham. The "nutrition advice" and pseudo-medical tips they constantly hammer you with on their site are garbage. I lie on the surveys, and tell them what they want to hear. Not because I eat garbage and don't want them to know, but because I know better than their one-size-fits-all advice. I know what I know through personal research, and listening to actual experts on these things. I have been at my ideal weight for 6 years, and the only "concern" with my health is high cholesterol - which I don't really know if it is a concern or not. I haven't tried to get a real lipid panel done because my insurance won't cover it. There are 5 indicators for metabolic syndrome, and my cholesterol is the only one that isn't perfect. Yet doctors will try to put me on statins - based on one overly generalized test that tells you nothing valuable. High cholesterol, in and of itself, tells you nothing about possible risks to your health. "any history of heart issues?" Yes, my father had 2 stints put in a couple of years ago. "ahh, I see... so we should put you on statins". Oh, by the way, my father has an absolutely normal lipid panel. So why do you want to prescribe statins to me again?

Our healthcare and insurance industries are abysmal. I went for a checkup once (required by the healthplan) and all was well. A couple of weeks later, I got a letter from my life insurance company that said I was required to enter rehab in order to keep my policy. I called my agent, who I knew pretty well, and he said he couldn't talk about it. I tried to call my doctor, and doctors don't talk to you. This went on for a few days, and finally I was a bit frantic and my life insurance guy said "your doctor indicated that you use drugs, so you need to attend rehab to keep your policy". I was LIVID. I left a VERY terse message at my doctor's office and did something that I hate - I threatened legal action if they did not contact me. I eventually found out that the medical assistant, who had done the whole "do you smoke... do you drink... " questions at the beginning of that visit had checked that I use marijuana. Which I do not. I still never found out why, but have to assume it was some mistake - why would I say I did? Anyway, I demanded that they send a letter to my insurance company to tell them it was a mistake on their part. Now... I don't tell my doctor anything. I answer all their stupid little questions the way they want me to, and I go about my life. What REALLY burns me about this is that it was my life insurance company (not my health insurance) that knew about this mistake - but because it was protected information, they couldn't actually tell me what was going on. It's an old word, but "cahoots" is about as perfect of a word that can be used to describe it.

My point is - don't play into these types of programs. It may seem easy, but it is such a slippery slope. It's only paranoid if they aren't out to get you - and these fuckers are out to get you! Not to mention that their data collection is only to benefit them, not you. If you think all the people who have those fitness trackers are getting healthier because of them... think again. Everyone is still the same. The overweight lady who wears her tracker and goes to the gym every day is still gaining wei