Slashdot Mirror
Swiss Soccer Fans Protest Esports by Throwing Tennis Balls and Game Controllers On the Field (variety.com)
Soccer fans in Switzerland protested against increased investment in esports by throwing tennis balls and game consoles on the field during a Swiss Super League match. From a report: The fans reportedly threw tennis balls and game controllers onto the field, forcing the referee to stop the game between Young Boys and FC Basel for two minutes while everything was cleared away. The Young Boys protesters then held up a giant banner with a pause button symbol, while Basel fans also raised their own sign supporting the protest. One of the banners read "Scheiss esports," which roughly translates to "esports are s---." European soccer clubs are increasingly getting involved in esports leagues. While Young Boys doesn't have any skin in professional gaming yet, Basel has its own "FIFA" team.
Is that people who play video games got the name "esports" to stick.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
That'll show them nerds
The article is pretty light on details. Why exactly is an "increased investment in esports" a bad thing for these teams? I don't really care what my club invests in, as long as it makes money and helps the organization.
Is that the fans are under the (possibly true) impression that the league is making participation in esports a licensing requirement for next season.
... is poorly informed outrage mob.
This almost sounds like a stunt 4chan would pull. Not the protest itself, but getting people to do it.
You can play soccer with any vague spheroid, at least when you're a beginner. Even at the highest levels, there are multiple vendors for the necessary equipment. In essence, traditional sports are open source. I will accept e-sports as sports when the games and the requisite operating systems are Free software.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
E-sports are bottom-of-the-barrel bullshit and take up valuable resources which could be spent making non-shit games.
I'm reading THREE TIMES the same sentence and at that point I just STOP READING because it's getting REPETETIVE.
MSMASH, dear, you are NOT an editor. YOU SUCK.
Why exactly is an "increased investment in esports" a bad thing for these teams?
Under current law, a video game's publisher has the exclusive right to play the game in public. This means it can end a league's license to stream the league's matches at any time for any reason or no reason.[1] It can also cause an esport to cease to exist by turning off a game's online multiplayer matchmaking server and threatening suit against third-party matchmaking servers.[2] By contrast, the governing body of a ball sport lacks power to shut down a league.
[1] "Why Nintendo can legally shut down any Smash Bros. tournament it wants" by Kyle Orland
[2] "EA shuts down fan-run servers for older Battlefield games" by Kyle Orland
ignore the Luddites proceed apace with conversion of humanity into pod-based virtual reality dwellers
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
The only thing that makes you look like more of a fairy than playing soccer is playing soccer on a Microsoft gaming console.
I think eSports are a joke when they're just a video game version of a real sport; however, I believe there is legitimacy in the case of a game that cannot be played in real life (such as Rocket League). I do agree with the Olympic committee that video games that promote violence (while I love them) don't really belong under the "eSports" moniker. Therefore games such as Rocket League uniquely qualify to usher in exciting global competition much like the Olympics. (I'm not commenting on whether I feel RL should be in the actual Olympics - that's a separate conversation IMHO.)
========
77 77 77 2e 6d 65 6c 76 69 6e 73 2e 63 6f 6d
Actually it translates to "esports are shit", you cocksuckers.
Anyone has the right to manufacture a bicycle for use with cycle polo. Anyone has the right to breed ponies for use with traditional polo. And anyone has the right to think up new polo variants using newly developed personal vehicles.
In esports, by contrast, a game publisher's copyright precludes this sort of incremental experimentation.
This is what happens when you let one organization in society take resources from people at the point of a gun in order to make "investments" on behalf of the Collective.
Under capitalism, if you don't like esports, you just spend your own money on other things instead.
There's not enough explanation here for me to understand what is going on. It sounds like a bunch of old guys are upset that kids are playing video games, so to protest they have disrupted a spectator sport? Except one of the protest groups is named the "young" boys, so I dunno?
Maybe explain more specifically what esports is? Is it video game versions of sports? And how does it affect these protestors - or does it actually affect these protestors? What are they upset about? What change do they desire?
Give me enough information that I can judge whether their protest is even appropriate. It sounds like their idea is that it's bad for kids to play video games and they should do healthier things like sports, except these are sports spectators not sports participants, so there's an irony here in their protest they may not realize. And it sounds like maybe they should've disrupted an esports/video game tournament rather than their own game that they think is superior to video games? Or is the game somehow connected to esports?
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
That is funny as shit, as if the esports fans/participants actually give a fuck what the whiny little pissers think.
You want people to understand what "Esports ist Scheisse" means but you don't dare spell it out? Like, whu..?
I live among a horde of weak, pathetic fools...
And anyone can code their own video game if they really want to.
One who codes his own video game that conforms to a particular esport's regulations would be sued and lose. Tetris v. Xio (2012) was the particular case that woke me up to this.
They can't stop someone from playing the game... but they sure as hell can stop anyone playing under whatever they are governing.
Once FIFA expels a league, that league can no longer claim affiliation with FIFA. But so long as that league doesn't claim such affiliation, what right under the law of any developed country does FIFA have to keep that league from playing matches by the same rules, using a pitch and ball with the same specifications as those used by FIFA members?
Team Fortress 2 is a 'substitute' for Counterstrike and Overwatch, for example.
That'd be like saying rugby is a substitute for gridiron (American or Canadian) football. I don't feel soccer, rugby, gridiron, Australian rules, or Gaelic football are substitutes for one another in the same way that American and Canadian football are substitutes for each other.
Shit, it's spelt "shit", not s---. No shit.
throwing tennis balls and game consoles on the field
I can see someone throwing out a $20 controller. A $400 console, never!
Source A, local free small news paper "20min"
Source B, the national ISP and IPTV service provider Bluewin
Sorry, source in German only (well at least it's in Schriftdütsch and not in dialect).
Source A has a side bar with an interview of one of the potester. His arguments, he's feeling danger, because :
- Mixing E-Sport could divert kids attention away from "real" (his words) sport and keep them glued to the screen.
- He's actually not afraid of money being invested into e-Sport instead of soccer teams (i.e.: not afraid of money lacking). But he'll find it problematic once the league's clubs start to assemble E-Sport teams. "What could this lead to ?"
- He's not buying the argument that e-Sport could attract more fans. His opinion is that a video game is a wrong reason to become a fan. He's actually against bringing even more people into stadiums (?!). Specially given that Bern's team is already successful for the last 3-4 years. He's not interested in pseudo-"fans" who are just following some fad.
On their side, the proponent of the e-Sport investment actually want to fight the "fat nerd in the sofa" cliché. Actually the point is to have the e-Sport team have some fitness training and balance diets, some are actual soccer players, etc. They want to cultivate healthy gamers.
At the end of the day, they see eSport as a marketing tool, able to reach out and attract more of the younger generation..
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Anyone has the right to manufacture a bicycle for use with cycle polo. Anyone has the right to breed ponies for use with traditional polo. And anyone has the right to think up new polo variants using newly developed personal vehicles.
...but none of them will end-up on prime time TV. You'll only find such sport in friend's backyards.
Only league's clubs actually get attention and money poured into them. You need already a commercial organisation to reap the benefits and play the big money/corruption game.
Game companies are basically the same : commercial entity with vested financial interests.
The closest to "playing soccer with a cheap sphere, or inventing my own e-scooter Polo variant" in the e-Sport world would be a small indie team writing some opensource video game. (e.g.: things like Tremulous).
Things which are free, where anyone can participate, but there's no commercial entities trying to make money out of it and thus no media interest, only LAN parties at friends' flats.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
ESports are Great, we should take other things to the same level as professional sports:
Teaching: Imagine, play by play of seeing standardized test scores increase/decrease. Districts could draft and bid on teachers.
Engineering: Play by play of every technical decision, compromise, etc. Companies can bid on the best and highest performers.
Art/Architecture: Vote on what is "good Art", people cranking out the best art get the high paying contracts to revitalize city scapes.
Imagine , where a pro-footballer only makes 30k/yr, and a teacher scores the multi-million dollar contract.
Any idiot can chase a ball all day.
I do agree with the Olympic committee that video games that promote violence (while I love them) don't really belong under the "eSports" moniker.
What do you mean "promote violence" ?
You mean encourage people to become actually violent and start punching people in real life ? That discredited trope has been beaten to death.
Or do you mean that "fighting" is the subject of sizeable chunk of games ?
Which is ridiculous given that chess, usually considered the noblest among the mind sports (officially recognized as such by IOC) has "war" as its subject.
And that lots of sports that simulate fighting (e.g.: Boxing, fencing, etc.) are official sports.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I have to wonder if they acted in a similar way when all the FIFA corruption was laid bare...
What's the definition of the fiercest competitor? A guy that takes first, second and fifth place in a jerk off contest.
But in the case of ball sports, there's no law that prevents a league from forming around a variant.
And there's no legal limitation preventing you from starting your own tournament of any opensource GPL'ed game of your choice neither.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
The thing I don't understand are video games that are sports you can play in real life. I understand playing a video game where you pilot a spaceship or blast aliens or race Mario Carts, but why pay soccer or basketball on a game console?
Unless your legs don't work or you live somewhere very isolated, just go play actual soccer or basketball.
Of esports being derided by the home of DREAMHACK a Swedish org that hosts insanely large LAN Parties & E-sports events...
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
They don’t give a flying fuck if you say the most horrible things, as long as you use the approved p.c. words.
But say the nicest thing, and put even a single "bad" word in there, and it's and #outrage!
Where those "bad" words don't contain most murder/violence words, but somehow contain sexual words, for some reason. Like the former is good, and the latter not only bad, but somehow even worse.
It's as absurd as "OH NOES! My small child had to see a ... nipple!” ... Yeah... unlike what they see every day for the first months of their life... --.--
Don't kill me, but I think it's because the religious culture is so full of child rapist perverts, that they automatically assume everyone thinks of sick perverted child rape things whenever he's reminded of anything sexual. Why else would two people having sex be something to hide from a child? It's not like there is even a remotely rational, reality-based logic to the "it could harm them" meme.
Those who can't even play, ... watch someone play, and project that successful life upon their own pathetic failure of a life, to feel great. That way they can say "WE won".
It's the manly equivalent of those gossip rags that talk about which royalty or star had a child or relationship with which other royalty or star like it's actual news. I wondered how women could read that crap, until I realized I was doing the same thing when watching YouTube "travel vlog" videos, and no was my flatmate when watching people play games on Twitch.
I stopped. (It's like an addiction, so it takes a bit to free myself completely, but I'm past the worst part.) ... and then do that. :)
Now when I feel bad about my life, I find out what I can do to improve my life, and what I can do, go gather the strength to actually do it (A vastly underestimated factor, that is fundamental to enduring success instead of a quick tour the force straw fire and a heart attack at 45.)
My life improved a lot since thin! I've created beautiful things, and am actually quite happy on those days, for the first time in my life.
[Copyright] actually hasn't negatively impacted any e-sport to date
From "No streaming Brawl for MLG?" (2010): "However, I'm sorry to say that we will not be able to have a live stream for Smash in Orlando this weekend. In order to stream something like this, we have to secure live streaming rights from the game's publisher. And despite our best efforts, we have not been able to get permission from Nintendo thus far. We kept the conversation going all the way down to the wire, in hopes that we'd get an 11th hour approval and could still stream the event, but unfortunately it didn’t happen."
From "Brawl Prevented from the MLG Floor" (2014): "Despite Brawl’s appearance at almost all of the qualifier events, its presence on the 2010 MLG Pro Circuit, and MLG organizing equipment and funding for a Brawl tournament at Anaheim, it was not approved by Nintendo."
I'm interested in reading how these don't count as having "negatively impacted any e-sport".
Then why do esport leagues choose to play proprietary games over GPL games despite the greater uncertainty in keeping a license?
Just think who has more money to invest into helping you organize your league:
- A giant commercial company like Activision Blizzard ?
- A guy who writes fun games on his spare time on week-ends ?
And whereas the single dev will be just happy if their game gets selected for a competition, a big company has a strong monetary incentive : they can use it as a marketing tool to make the game more popular and make more potential buyers aware of it existence leading to more potential sales and thus profit.
Patronage systems (Patreon, Crowdfunding, etc.) might eventually change that (bringing money in to small devs of GPL software).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I'm tired from actually doing things all day. :)
a big company has a strong monetary incentive : they can use it as a marketing tool to make the game more popular and make more potential buyers aware of it existence
Until said big company decides to withdraw the game from the marketplace. Then the league has to quickly disband or risk a copyright infringement suit.
As somebody living in Switzerland, I observe:
Each match between any of the major teams attracts a violent crowd that
* Gets drunk before the match
* Vandalizes trains
* Set off fireworks ('pyros')
* More often than not, almost kill members of the perceived opponent or just members of the public. They usually do so teaming up in gangs of ca. 10 and singling out individuals of their opponents and cowardly beating and kicking them until they need hospitalization or are almost dead.
It comes as no surprise to me that these people would have nothing to say than 'sch*** e-sports' or throwing objects on the playfield.
Many matches require *massive* police operations to secure train stations, inner cities and the areas around the stadiums.
Soccer in Switzerland is just an excuse for gratuitous hooligan violence.
The clubs usually invent excuses, saying that they're not responsible for their fans, that it's only a small minority etc.
Despite the police operations, very few of the perpetrators get caught and convicted. If they *are* convicted, they often get only conditional fines.
It's sad to say, but in Switzerland, you're well advised to inform yourself about any soccer matches and leave ample space and time between yourself and these 'events'.
if people who complain about the term eSport also complain about the term eMail for not being real mail?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Sports fans being violent and scared by a thing they don't understand, shocking,.
These are the same type of idiots the flip cars and get into fights after a game.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Printing "Scheiss esports" then censoring the translation as "esports are s---." is retarded. You are retarded. A significant amount of English speakers already knew what the German phrase meant. You are retarded *and* racist-- against Germans! You deserve an award for that I guess.
Also, you're ridiculous prudes.
So they are protesting "e-soccer" by disrupting physical soccer games?
The play fields/courts of eSports are the copyrighted games owned by publishers, are not open source.
It sounds like the analogy you're trying to make is the following:
Team-based first-person shooters in general are to baseball as Overwatch is to Yankee Stadium.
Under this model, each team would specialize in one game and provide game licenses to the visiting team. That would provide a severe home court advantage to, say, a league's team that specializes in TF2. What league operates on a basis anything like this, with as many different games as teams?
The play fields/courts of eSports are the copyrighted games owned by publishers, are not open source.
It sounds like the analogy you're trying to make is the following:
Team-based first-person shooters in general are to baseball as Overwatch is to Yankee Stadium.
Under this model, each team would specialize in one game and provide game licenses to the visiting team.
You're being deliberately obtuse and cherry-picking legal technicalities on a simple analogy. And if you want to get technical, the Yankees don't own their stadium either which makes your theoretical licensing system fall apart ( https://nypost.com/2016/08/29/... ). Furthermore, the Yankees players are employees with no ownership rights to Yankee Stadium; like how a competitive video gamer does not own the servers hosting their online games. We still can build on your Overwatch/Yankee Stadium analogy though....but you need to think bigger because Overwatch is not bound physically like a traditional sports stadium... Overwatch is like baseball stadium that can house all baseball games everywhere simultaneously. It is an "eStadium." Players and spectators engage in Overwatch's eStadium, but they don't own it any more than the Yankees players or spectators own Yankee Stadium.
You're being deliberately obtuse and cherry-picking legal technicalities on a simple analogy.
Then what would be a better analogy? What are the overarching rules of the sport that determine what is and isn't a valid stadium for the sport?
Overwatch is like baseball stadium that can house all baseball games everywhere simultaneously.
Activision Blizzard retains discretion, however, to authorize or forbid the playing and the broadcast of each match in that stadium. Say I wanted to put a ton of money into building my own stadium, with proverbial blackjack and hookers. In the case of a ball sport, nobody could shut that down. In the case of an esport, Activision Blizzard could legally shut that down if it is too similar. But how similar does it have to be without no longer serving its purpose as a stadium for that sport?
Maybe Overwatch to Yankee Stadium is the wrong analogy. Maybe Overwatch is more like Major League Baseball (MLB)
MLB is the result of a merger between the National League (NL), formed in 1876, and the later American League (AL), formed in 1901. The NL lacked any right under law to shut down the AL, and the leagues played side by side for nearly a century until their formal merger in 2000 into MLB.
In this revised analogy, in which an esport's publisher corresponds to a ball sport's league, where do organizations such as MLG sit?
Games like Overwatch, PUBG, Fortnite, etc. have lots of competition from very very similar games and players can and do move between games with the touch of a button, literally.
In the analogy I've used in the past, Overwatch, PUBG, Fortnite, and the like occupy similar spaces to soccer, rugby (Union/League), gridiron (NFL/CFL), Australian rules, and Gaelic football. How often do you see players transitioning between soccer and gridiron?