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Ask Slashdot: Why Does Almost Nothing Come With a Proper Printed Manual Anymore?

OpenSourceAllTheWay writes: As someone who grew up with 1980s and 1990s computers and electronics and still has whole boxes of lovingly prepared printed computer, peripheral, game and software manuals from that era, I am continually surprised by how just many products ship without a proper printed manual these days. Case in point would be things like Android phones. Android has quite a few not-entirely-obvious functions built into it. And a lot of people aren't even aware they exist. No Android phone I've bought has ever had a printed manual included in its little product box. Not even a small one. Even expensive laptops ranging in price from 2,000 to 5,000 Dollars often come only with a few sheets of printed paper in the box -- warranty card, where to register the device, URL for downloading drivers and so on. Why is this? It can't be environmental concern -- the electronics devices themselves, when thrown away, are a hundred times (if not worse) more harmful to the environment than a little 50 to 100 page recycled paper booklet would be. So where are the manuals? Is it the cost of preparing the manuals? The cost of printing them? Is it a few grams of extra weight added to the product box? Is everyone supposed to look up everything online now, even in places where there is no internet connection? And why can't there be a print manual option -- e.g. pay 3 to 5 Dollars extra, and get a full, printed manual you can study on a couch?

332 comments

  1. What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, that's a fucking retarded question to ask and you don't deserve an answer.

    1. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Entire article (and msmash) should be moderated flamebait.

    2. Re:What a stupid question by ugen · · Score: 4, Funny

      Weirdly enough - mod parent up.

    3. Re:What a stupid question by steelwraith · · Score: 0

      Yea an AC says it stupid so it must be... not. Personally as I have to work in places that you have to travel fifty klicks to be in the boonies and the only way to get a wireless signal is to get fly fifty klicks further than that towards civilization.

      I believe a possible answer is that it cuts down on cost when you can Google translate a document from Mandarin/Cantonese to any other, and not have to re-print it when it come out with 'Instructions unclear, X stuck in toaster'. It is one less link in the production chain that producers believe can be removed without issue to their customer.

      And sometimes they're wrong when the user interface is fairly simple but has many nested layers of settings and only a small LCD screen/a handful of LEDs to show current setting and status. But I'm sure they're not worried about one customer.

      Who's the retard now AC?

    4. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Who's the retard now AC?

      It appears that you are, and I'm not that AC. You can't expect national or international businesses to cater to people who are so far from civilization that they can't browse a manual online, except maybe with farm equipment.

    5. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you, since the manual is often on the harddrive.

    6. Re:What a stupid question by registrations_suck · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up!

    7. Re:What a stupid question by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up!

      (this is like the Slashdot comment version of Amway)

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:What a stupid question by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If any of you sat in a tech support call center for one day you'd realize that few end users are reading and understanding the manuals we've been providing.

      The most effective method is to include a small bit of colorful card stock in the top of the stack of packaging with something like "Quick Start" in a big font. Some users will see this when first opening a product and if you're really lucky they will try to follow directions the pictures and very short sentences. If all else fails a phone number and website is on the back of the card for a proper hand-holding experience.

      PDF downloads on the company website of a very comprehensive manual is especially nice. As I can search it, or access it from my phone instead of having to remember where I hid the physical copy.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    9. Re:What a stupid question by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      I couldn't have said it better. Some years ago I slowly started transcending into also having PDF copies of manuals because they can be updated and searched quickly. My printed manuals are stored in their respective boxes the item came in, and locating and reading a PDF manual is much easier than scavenging around looking in cardboard boxes. Printed manuals are good to have though for certain items, especially motherboards, but for other pieces of hardware, a PDF is sufficient.

    10. Re:What a stupid question by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      If any of you sat in a tech support call center for one day you'd realize that few end users are reading and understanding the manuals we've been providing.

      I have worked tech support before. What your statement tells me is that your company can't write a good manual to save themselves. I feel sorry for your users.

      My cheap chinese 3D printer from Anycubic came with an assembly manual. It was clear, concise and didn't have any errors. And it was colour to boot. And there was a PDF version on the SD card that came with the printer and the PDF version is available for download on their web site.

    11. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? I have never ever read any of the physical manuals provided with any electronics Iâ(TM)ve been gifted or bought. Thatâ(TM)s since early childhood and Iâ(TM)m nearly 40 now. Who the hell needs a physical printed hundreds of pages long document?

      Either youâ(TM)re smart enough to figure shit out or youâ(TM)re probably dumb enough that you need exactly that kind of handholding and would be intimidated to read anything but that two sentence big letter flyer with pictorials and a phone number. Also most people will ask their neighbors kid or something. âoeHey you are in IT right? Can you help me figure out this thing ...â

    12. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you real the manual on how to post like a normal fucking person and not look like an iTard(TM). Also, what is so damn wrong with normal quotation marks and apostrophes(you know the ones in the basic ASCII character set)?

    13. Re:What a stupid question by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      No, I have the same question. Sometimes you can't easily find the answer online for some basic stuff. Like "what is that weird icon on my new phone?" None of this new tech is even remotely intuitive, unless you've bought every model that was ever released since version 1 and read all the release notes along the way.

    14. Re:What a stupid question by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      What if the manual doesn't even exist online or is difficult to find? I've never seen a slip of paper with a URL for those who need help.

    15. Re:What a stupid question by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      How about including a link to an online manual? (which probably doesn't exist anyway)

    16. Re:What a stupid question by hey! · · Score: 1

      Stupid questions are often the best ones to ask. And when they're not, well, they're still more constructive than pissing all over someone because they're asking a question you don't need answered.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    17. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most effective documentation is none.

      While I doubt all devices can do this, toasters and laundry machines have done this for the last 50 years.

      You know what else needs to stop coming in the box? Power cords. I swear I have 10x as many NEMA 5-15P to IEC-320-C13 cords than devices.

    18. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is kind of stupid coming from a person that can't figure out Settings -> General -> Keyboard -> Disable Smart Punctuation on their iPhones to post respectably on a Slashdot.

      Real smart.

    19. Re:What a stupid question by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I went to far as to create a, manual directory, track down PDFs for all my various bits and pieces and saved that into that directory and linked to it on the desktop, of course I am screwed if my computer goes down, such is life ;).

      The only real manual I have seen recently is one for the car and I was most peeved when I could not get the PDF, very annoying, still the manual is in the car and accessible, without a computer, so a plus.

      If you want to, buy a laser printer, download the PDF and print it. If you like buy a folder and a hole punch, some card stock and voila, printed manual (I have all those items but have yet to make a hardcopy manual, never felt the need).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    20. Re:What a stupid question by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      Yep. The reason I focused on the motherboard paper manual as a good thing to have, is that you will most likely face an offline/dead/new system where you for obvious reasons cant read a PDF (egg and chicken problem). Have a nice day :)

    21. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That crap only happens on slashdot. Itâ(TM)s stupid and 100% the site and not Apple.

    22. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If iPhones canâ(TM)t post on slashdot than posters on slashdot will all be iholes.

    23. Re: What a stupid question by omnichad · · Score: 1

      That is not how you fix a broken website.

    24. Re: What a stupid question by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was thinking without the deluge of profanity.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    25. Re:What a stupid question by antdude · · Score: 1

      Also, no need to worry about taking up physical spaces. Just virtual storage!

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    26. Re:What a stupid question by nasch · · Score: 1

      A good manual doesn't do any good if it isn't read. And most people don't even bother reading instructions that their software provides them on how to do a task they're currently engaged in (or what went wrong with it). I would be very surprised if your average person who doesn't know the difference between storage and memory would be willing to actually read a user manual for a piece of consumer electronics, no matter how well written.

    27. Re: What a stupid question by highinthemountains · · Score: 1

      Actually itâ(TM)s not a stupid question. Your age group pretty much determines whether you need/want a manual. If youâ(TM)re an older individual, a paper manual is usually wanted. If youâ(TM)re younger, itâ(TM)ll probably never be opened. What would be nice is an electronic version of the manual on the deviceâ(TM)s desktop, that is updated as the OS is updated, instead of having to go search for one on the internet.

    28. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is not the users but rather the people who wrote the code for /. who didnâ(TM)t read anything about the languages they wrote the site in nor about general web and application standards. It looks like it was written by amateurs. But then you obviously havenâ(TM)t read much either, or why else would whinge like a little girlâ(TM)s blouse about the symptoms rather than the cause?

    29. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are. Get a real job.

    30. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unicode makes it hard to filter out the "fuck you", "ass bitches" and "good riddance, you deprecated piece of human excrement".

    31. Re:What a stupid question by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      I was pretty sure that I have a relevant quote in my fortune database. Turns out I was thinking about No such thing as a stupid question.

      But the first thing that grep from the fortune database brought me is relevant as well:

      Whenever somebody asks a question starting "Why don't they...." - the answer is always "money". (R. Heinlein)

    32. Re: What a stupid question by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm as scared and confused about this as you are, but AC is right this time. It was a painfully stupid question. Everything has .pdf manuals online somewhere now. If you actually want to read it away from a screen, print it yourself. This will cost you probably less than a dollar unless you don't have a printer. Then you might need to go to the library and spend two dollars. Printing manuals for all the people who actually read them means they also print them for all the people who don't, and it costs thousands of dollars.

      Are there things with incomplete, shitty, or truly non-existent manuals? Yes, just about as often as was the case with print manuals.

    33. Re: What a stupid question by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

      Thanks, Google keyboard, for fucking up my close italics tag as soon as I was ready to press the button. You're doing God's work.

    34. Re: What a stupid question by Malc · · Score: 1

      I remember my first PC came with a fairly big manual. It had pages with diagrams explaining how a window is a view on to a larger sheet and scrolling moves that view around. Weâ(TM)ve come a long way since then and we all have at least a basic understanding of the fundamentals. Explaining the 3.5â floppy disk icon as the save action to kids these days is amusing though.

      A lot of things just donâ(TM)t require much in the way of a manual these days. Paper isnâ(TM)t always the best choice, and seems downright wasteful given how many times it will probably be used. I am happy to get a decent PDF manual though, for instance with my DSLR camera, it _occasionally_ comes in useful when I want to experiment with a new feature. In this case I have it on Dropbox and handy on my phone.

    35. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is the one at fault for using SPESHUL SHNOWFLAKE quotation marks and apostrophes. Apple always fucks with standards, do you forget their stupidity in ditching the 3.5mm jack?

    36. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If any of you sat in a tech support call center for one day you'd realize that few end users are reading and understanding the manuals we've been providing.

      I have worked tech support before. What your statement tells me is that your company can't write a good manual to save themselves. I feel sorry for your users.

      My cheap chinese 3D printer from Anycubic came with an assembly manual. It was clear, concise and didn't have any errors. And it was colour to boot. And there was a PDF version on the SD card that came with the printer and the PDF version is available for download on their web site.

      And your post tells me you don't actually understand the problem and only worked in a tech support line for expert customers aka second line or higher

    37. Re: What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only we could have a decent portable pdf viewer. My tractor manual is hundreds of pages long and every time I wake my iPhone from automatic sleep while I was performing some part of the instructions, I will be god-dammed if the thing doesnâ(TM)t automatically reload the pdf back to page 1.

    38. Re:What a stupid question by jon3k · · Score: 1

      You could always get yourself a nice e-ink reader. The battery life on them is exceptional, lasting days (or weeks). Just keep it charged and load all your PDFs on it. Makes a very inexpensive backup to your computer, and it's probably more portable and easier to deal with when you need a manual for something.

    39. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are full of shit. I work for a fortune 500 company that creates hundreds of VERY detailed manuals intended for people running multi-million dollar systems.

      And every day I get people on the phone that are PISSED off because I try to refer them to the information in the manual so that they have it available for future reference. "I don't pay you people for manuals, I pay for the equipment! And if you can't help me when I call, I'm switching my entire factory/company/production line over to competitor X."

    40. Re: What a stupid question by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      If you RTFM for /. you can do all the fancy stuff: ‘ ' ’ “ " ”

      I think Apple assumes a particular encoding for the HTML forms. Perhaps /. could hint better on the HTML side or perhaps during HTTP POST. But if the encoding isn't known it's not correct for the browser to assume UTF-8 encoding.

      Ideally /. should just fix it, and report 8859-1 everywhere. I think that should convince the browsers to re-encode correctly without needing to change much on the server side.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    41. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not-so-weirdly: wish cancer upon the parent; and you.

    42. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, that's a fucking retarded replay to post and you don't deserve more, yet here we are.

    43. Re:What a stupid question by omnichad · · Score: 1

      A paper manual wouldn't be any help. The first thing that happens out of the box is that it gets an update and all the icons play musical chairs and get a new design.

    44. Re:What a stupid question by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Would be nice to have a help document on the phone itself then, or a central online page managed by the manufacturer rathe than a random collection of third party help pages trying to monetize views.

    45. Re:What a stupid question by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Todo:
      1. backup computer

    46. Re:What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you proved the point for everyone. If, as a user, you want a good product with a good manual and good support you won't ever get it from a Fortune 500 company.

      Small companies depend on their customers for income, which depends on their customers having a good experience and sharing their good experiences with other people to grow the business. Small companies have few people so their engineering, marketing, sales and support staff are all in the same location talking to each other regularly and quickly fixing any customer issues to make things as painless as possible. Their jobs depend on it.

      No Fortune 500 company will ever make their customers come first. Their first priority is to maximize profits for their share holders by reducing costs to the absolute bare minimum. Their engineering, marketing, sales and support staff are usually in different countries and never directly communicate with each other, so regular problems rarely get reported from sales/support to the engineering staff and so will never get fixed. Even if they ever produce a manual it rarely gets updated or corrected because that costs money and so steals profits from the share holders.

    47. Re:What a stupid question by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      >Who's the retard now AC?

      It appears that you are, and I'm not that AC. You can't expect national or international businesses to cater to people who are so far from civilization that they can't browse a manual online, except maybe with farm equipment.

      Because everyone always has an always on connection?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  2. Econonics, but not what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It means they or someone else can sell it separately.

    1. Re:Econonics, but not what you think by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      So we are pushing for more waste?

      Why print something out that will likely be used once?

    2. Re: Econonics, but not what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Used once by 2% of users, never by the rest.

  3. Almost nobody RTFM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the nerds who does want to read the manual, like me, can and find it on the Internet.
    Anyway the quality of the information are declining.

    1. Re:Almost nobody RTFM by jrminter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I prefer PDFs that I file when I can find them easily. A second advantage is that most manuals have multiple languages. I can split the PDF and make one that has only the pages I want.

    2. Re:Almost nobody RTFM by sjames · · Score: 1

      Exactly that. Those manuals in the box from the '80s and '90s? Never read.

    3. Re:Almost nobody RTFM by Octorian · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure how many nerds actually RTFM, versus just having the ability to figure it out and/or search online for specific questions.

      When I was a kid, and my father got a new piece of software, he definitely would RTFM. Cover-to-cover. Then he'd buy some 3rd party book on the same piece of software, and read that cover-to-cover. He'd then somehow be less able to use said software than I was, armed only with the intuition of someone with computer fluency.

    4. Re:Almost nobody RTFM by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't just missing printed manuals, we also have a problem of there being no PDF manual as well, and often no online manual. For Android and iPhone both, learning how to use those involved a lot of time online searching through various hint and help sites and watching stupid videos intended to earn advertising because no one gets paid if they just write plain text.

    5. Re:Almost nobody RTFM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is fine if you live in a single bedroom apartment (I saved you from your moms basement).
      What books do for me:
      * smell. Like an avid wine wabbit, printed works have distinct smells that identify an age and truly reflect a time long since passed.
      * texture. The coarse nature of abrasive print drags each page into the next like a 10 dollar hooker down an alley filled with IT clowns.
      * colour. 3d really is better than 2 in many more ways than 1.
      Having a book shelf, game shelf, ornament shelf, teddy bear shelf is all part of the fun of having friends over and TALKING about the items on display. Much gets lost when GO DIGITAL is bandied around like any other method is trash. PDF’s are trash. Plain and simple.

  4. Go Button by h4x0t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Manufacturers are not interested in creating users who know what they are doing.
    Designers tend to be of the persuasion that if it needs a manual, it isnt user friendly enough, and writing one anyway makes them look like quitters.
    Users themselves just want a black box with a go button that takes them to pleasureville.

    1. Re: Go Button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most devices and software should be intuitive anyways. If you need to look something up, design may not be very functional or too complex. Paper is obsolete whereas www can be updated, corrected and extended. DUH! Why is grass green?

    2. Re:Go Button by SuseLover · · Score: 1
      And they don't want to "give away" their proprietary secrets anymore. Back in the day the manuals explained nearly ever API detail necessary to use a product, now it's like pulling teeth to get that info. Remember the old Hayes modem manuals with descriptions of every switch setting and AT command?

      Instead, now we get little one-page sheets of paper in 16 different languages all interspersed together and it's nearly unreadable in any language and contains no info of value.

    3. Re:Go Button by saider · · Score: 1

      http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/images/dilbert_user_friendly_computer.gif

      --


      Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
    4. Re:Go Button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Conversely, I'm of the opinion that my programs should be user friendly enough to not need a manual, but I make one anyway.

    5. Re:Go Button by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      And they don't want to "give away" their proprietary secrets anymore. Back in the day the manuals explained nearly ever API detail necessary to use a product,

      You don't need "every API detail" to use a product. You need to know what the buttons do and what the cute little symbols called "icons" or "widgets" mean. For a phone, you need to know what buttons to press to store a contact or make a call.

      You don't need to know "nearly every API detail" unless you are developing software for the phone -- and 99.99% of the users will never do that. Why would you expect them to waste the money and resources to print a thousand-page paper manual detailing every API and it's use when NOBODY (to three significant digits) is going to bother reading it, much less have any use for it?

      Remember the old Hayes modem manuals with descriptions of every switch setting and AT command?

      Remember in the good old Hayes Smartmodem days when a high percentage of people were attaching Hayes modems to something besides a plug-and-play telecom program, simply because there weren't a lot of plug-and-play telecom programs, and the ones that did exist often needed help dealing with the changing modem command sets as modems developed from 300 baud through 56k fax/modems and even Telebit 9600 UUCP-capable ones? That's not today. Times have changed. Modems changed from cutting-edge technology through commodity to nearly obsolete status.

      and contains no info of value.

      It contains enough information to get Mom and Pop started using it. It doesn't contain enough information for you to reverse engineer the communications protocol and attach it to your Arduino Nano so it can be a dial-in weather station, no. Google for "AT command set" and you'll find what you need. Why should everyone in the world get a large paper manual just so you don't have to use the Internet to find something?

    6. Re:Go Button by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually the questioner answered the question already. It's cost. Manuals cost money to prepare and print. If there is a mistake it's not easy to fix. The add weight to the package which increases shipping costs. And in the end most people don't read them anyway.

      Go look at some computer manuals from the 80s. They are thick because they teach you how to use a computer. Computers were hard to use back then, often booting directly into BASIC. Even the GUI ones were unfamiliar to most people, especially first time buyers.

      Customers mostly don't like manuals either. They prefer stuff that "just works" or is intuitive, and only go to the manual if they have a problem.

      The only time manuals make sense is when you need to cover your ass legally, e.g. cars. Even they will stop getting manuals soon I think, since a lot of them are moving to over-the-air software updates that make manuals almost immediately out of date. Not looking forward to that.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Go Button by Xylantiel · · Score: 1

      Some of the Apple iphone television ads almost did this. They were a sneaky way of teaching users the few steps that made some feature work on the phone. I think it's pretty clear that Jobs was pushing this because once he was gone the commercials reverted back to hollow "make it seem stylish" rather than "show them the three taps that make some cool thing actually happen on a real device", and you are left to guess what the three taps are. It's a great way to create the illusion of an intuitive interface. By the 4th time you've seen the commercial, you know exactly what to do when somebody puts the phone in your hand. But to make it work you have to absolutely insist that the real experience is like the commercial, which an actual advertising person would never do.

    8. Re: Go Button by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      If you don't need a manual you aren't really doing anything. I want a jet engine that just works. Puts things in perspective. Write a manual for an iPhone? No. You aren't doing anything.

      Manual for Pandas or Xamarin.Forms? Several required. Browsing the internet? No manual required. Analyzing data in Tableau or Excel? Read the fucking manual.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    9. Re:Go Button by exomondo · · Score: 1

      So what's wrong with that? Why are some companies so incapable of creating products that are intuitive and then why is it there are so many apologists for those inept companies that go on to blame the users?

      In any case a big part of it is that in so many non-trivial products these days the behaviour and interactions are software-defined so updates would make a manual pointless anyway, for example you could provide a manual that walked through all the features of the iPhone 5s when it was released but it would be completely irrelevant for that product with its updates today.

    10. Re: Go Button by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I want a jet engine that just works.

      I think this every time I am in a jet aircraft.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    11. Re: Go Button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of cars come with a manual half the size of one 10 years ago. Only the essential information is in there. Just anough to explain the safety features.
      Expect to need to download a pdf for such non-essential information like how to connect your phone to the factory-built-in audio system over bluetooth.
      On the other hand, a new dishwasher comes with a relatively large amount of paper, containing a manual in a dozen of languages describing every optional feature the factory might or might not have added in your specific type and without any hint how to know which feature your type might have (and no, the webpage for the type is useless, as it names features that are definitely not included, omits features that are and is inconsistent between specification text and table).
      So, apparently, for a car a thin well-written manual is best (from the manufacturing point of view) but for a dishwasher, an incomprehesible heap of paper is best.

      This shows that cost of printing and shipping is only part of the equation, as are legal reasons. Sometimes, the bulkyness appears to be used as a quality signal in brick stores, masking the low quality untill the transaction is over.

    12. Re:Go Button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, there are different schools of thought here.

      You know the "right to repair" thing that is going on now?
      Old user manuals had the schematic in them so that you could do self repairs.

      A manual that doesn't have that isn't complete enough for you to use the product independently.
      Once it breaks down you are at the mercy of the manufacturer or you have to throw the product away.

    13. Re:Go Button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember the old Hayes modem manuals with descriptions of every switch setting and AT command?

      Remember in the good old Hayes Smartmodem days when a high percentage of people were attaching Hayes modems to something besides a plug-and-play telecom program, simply because there weren't a lot of plug-and-play telecom programs, and the ones that did exist often needed help dealing with the changing modem command sets as modems developed from 300 baud through 56k fax/modems and even Telebit 9600 UUCP-capable ones? That's not today. Times have changed. Modems changed from cutting-edge technology through commodity to nearly obsolete status.

      i remember the useful tech support command ID10T :)

    14. Re:Go Button by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      I got a ZX spectrum as a kid, it had, if I remember 3 manuals, and a tape to instruct you how to work the thing, cpu architecture, full BASIC and machine code programming manual, memory stack description (RAMTOP!) I read those for years and it gave me a good grounding in how computers work from metal to screen. (OK I mostly played Jet Set Willy and Sabre Wulf but still). I got a pair of bluetooth headphones last week, it has a "multi-function" button. I describes how to pair the device, but nothing else I occasionally accidental dial the last number and I have no idea why. I don't expect a £25 headphone to have the same quality of manual as a £125 (about £350 in today's money) computer, but it is lacking in detail.

    15. Re:Go Button by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      The printed manual would describe the initial state. Changes to that state would be pdf addenda included in the update. There could be some visual clue to indicate what things have changed on the phone.

    16. Re:Go Button by Beerdood · · Score: 1

      Software updates would be another concern to account for too. If you're buying a generator, a weed trimmer or toaster - they'll come with a manual, because the functionality isn't going to change for that device or equipment, ever. How an Android phone or laptop works is almost entirely dependent on the software or operating system being used, and those are constantly changing with updates. Slightly different icons or a minor rearrangement is enough to confuse users, and now all the printed manuals are useless or misleading.

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
  5. To save money on paper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why is this even a question. When a company does not include something it's because they are trying to save money. Even offering a servi e to print the manual for you means they will have to spend money on things to do that.

    Just get a tablet and load all your manual/pdfs on that.

    Seriously Slashdot, do you let these posts through because you have nothing better to do?

    1. Re:To save money on paper. by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Indeed. One can print the PDF manual if they really want a paper copy, but the majority of users probably don't want to pay extra for having the product shipped with a paper manual.

      The demand is not there and the minority who want it do have a way to get a paper version on their own.

      I suppose the vendor could offer a version of the product with a paper manual, but carrying and managing two products (packaging types) instead of one has overhead and may confuse shoppers and retailers. I don't see the economics favoring it.

    2. Re: To save money on paper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the manual is in 89 different languages in Europe and most are trie tossed in the bin right away.

    3. Re:To save money on paper. by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      The question is clearly not being posed for the technically-literate person, who knows how to find this information, but for the average user.

      I'm guessing manuals aren't included for cost reasons (why else?) and the companies have concluded that few enough people complain that they can do it.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    4. Re:To save money on paper. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Most stuff does not even have a PDF manual.

    5. Re:To save money on paper. by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      Printed copies might be redundant now, I agree. The post is wrong about that. My problem is that the documentation is either not there at all, or so inadequate it's of little to no value.

    6. Re:To save money on paper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The documentation for Windows 2019 would be way too big to fit into the library of congress building (after chucking everything currently in it).

    7. Re:To save money on paper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were plenty of organizations that emphasized the green aspects (Save a Tree!) rather than the costs. I have little doubt that at least some of them meant it too.

      The recent trend has been mailed statements. Lots of organizations are asking me to end the mailouts of statements and switch to online account access. Not exactly a "new" trend, this has been ongoing for several years.

  6. STOP KILLING TREES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ^^

  7. How is this a mystery? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They add bulk, cost and can't be updated. You may think each one is cheap individually but the costs add up when you have to print millions or billions of them.

  8. Nobody reads the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why print it when nobody reads it anyway?

    1. Re:Nobody reads the manual by mhkohne · · Score: 1

      This. I work in medical and we DO ship real manuals. Which no one reads.

      --
      A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
    2. Re:Nobody reads the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > the UP-TO-DATE on-line manual

      Oh you sweet summer child. That's so cute.

    3. Re:Nobody reads the manual by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Informative

      You don't seem to be familiar with medical devices. To get FDA approval they generally have to have very limited, very well defined functions. And if you're going to make any substantive changes, you need to go through an approval process all over again.

      This leads to less-than-cutting-edge technology which has robust features and documentation. That's not shit that ships out with errors that need to be corrected most of the time. Often one model will be in use for years if not decades, and the manual will be unchanging during that time.

      It's a radically different mindset than most consumer goods, which get booted out the door to meet the schedule, and bugs fixed later. Companies that ship medical devices with bugs and incorrect manuals don't tend to last long. There's not an analogy to medical malpractice in the consumer electronics world.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    4. Re:Nobody reads the manual by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      Oh no, they'll be using that equipment long after the manufacturer has been bought four times and the electronic manuals are lost to the depths of time. Stick the paper one in the validation binder, print an electronic one if they didn't include it.

    5. Re:Nobody reads the manual by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of products that don't have an up-to-date on-line manuals either. This is because of the cost of a technical writer especially if they are bilingual or multilingual. Bilingual and multilingual technical writers can make as almost as much as the engineers designing the products.

    6. Re:Nobody reads the manual by BlackOverflow · · Score: 1

      translate.google.com makes their job super-simple!

    7. Re:Nobody reads the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes.

      Ground the hopper and turn topsy-turvy to vanquish the demons.

      Actual instructions from a motherboard manual from China on how to clear the BIOS NVRAM. THe manual was written by The Riddler ...

    8. Re:Nobody reads the manual by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Doesn't match the poetry of 'What we possessive that others without.'

      If google could translate like that, they'd have something.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:Nobody reads the manual by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Open up my new phone, and lots of printed warranty information, printed service information, and one lousy set of quick start diagrams that basically indicated I should charge the phone before using it. No other useful help existed on the phone either, other than tips on new apps that I don't intend to use. Have to go to third party advertising funded web sites infected with javascript just to get a hint on what to do after unlocking the phone.

    10. Re:Nobody reads the manual by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      My problem is that often there is no digital or online manual either in so much new technology. While the original question was about "printed" manuals, I am dismayed by the utter lack of any manual or help in any form in newer stuff.

    11. Re:Nobody reads the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes the technical writers are the engineers that designed the product...

    12. Re:Nobody reads the manual by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the bullet points on my network cable tester package:
      * Do not use beyond usage
      * Do not hold it on your mind

  9. Nintendo by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    Nintendo stopped shipping printed manuals with most their games. They cited reducing unnecessary waste as the primary cause. They don't omit the manual though. Every product comes with a built-in e-manual now, and this allows them to specifically design and format the manual content for built-in software readers. In an era of mobile gaming, nobody wants the manuals to take up physical space.

    They've made their product packaging much smaller too, but so have most the other game publishers in recent years.

    1. Re:Nintendo by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      Nintendo 3DS games come with an e-manual.

      Switch games generally do not. There's usually an option in the menus to show the controls, but other than that you're at the mercy of the tutorials.

      3DS game packaging is the same size as DS packaging, which included a manual. Switch packaging is smaller than WiiU game packaging, but it's still plenty big enough to put a manual in there if you want. And the cases have clips to hold a manual. And some third-party games do have manuals.

      The game packaging was made smaller because they don't need to fit a disc into it any more. The manual is irrelevant to the package size.

  10. Dead trees cost money by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The internet is free. I find it easier to google the manual online than find the one that came in the box with the product. Next question...

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you googled for that manual before you went on a trip into the bush where, you know, there is no interwebs...

    2. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The internet is free. I find it easier to google the manual online than find the one that came in the box with the product. Next question...

      I wish the internet were free - I pay $70/month!

    3. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The internet is free. I find it easier to google the manual online than find the one that came in the box with the product. Next question...

      I call BULLSHIT on that one .. everything I've bought in the last 5 years came without any type of manual and there wasn't one online .. only community forums.

    4. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also they can update the online docs without having to reprint things, but yes, booklets cost money (shipping weight, printing, etc.) and this is also a significant factor.

    5. Re:Dead trees cost money by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      So what's the marginal cost of googling and downloading a manual?

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    6. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you googled for that manual before you went on a trip into the bush where, you know, there is no interwebs...

      Print the relevant pages before your trip if you need them.

    7. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many people actually hold on to the manuals that came with their crap? How many people read the manual just long enough to set it up, figured "I've got this", and then just chuck it? I know I generally don't keep the manuals that come with things. They're a waste of space.

      The majority of people don't want physical manuals, it's that simple. Digital manuals are flat-out better: they don't waste paper, you can search them, they can support hyperlinks, they can be updated after-the-fact: they're just better.

      Yes, you may need to make sure you download the manual if you're planning on going some place without an Internet connection. But for most people, a digital manual is just better.

    8. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the wilderness the likely utility of that manual will be fire starter.

    9. Re:Dead trees cost money by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What costs even more than trees are the Technical Writers who make the manuals. Easier to just lay them off, and not provide any manual.

      - Also manuals were mandatory in the 80s. When I turned-on my first Commodore computer, it just sat there and blinked at me. I needed the manual to teach me the BASIC commands.

      And subscriptions to magazines like RUN or Compute to learn how to put those commands into useful programs. It was a whole different era that revolved around the printed word.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least an hour online - chasing the various links until finding one that works, or concluding that there is indeed no manual of any kind. Then reading whatever you find and discovering that it's not worth printing because it provides no useful information - especially about servicing things that always break. Perhaps, in rare cases, actually spending a few minutes and printing it for your reference file - and don't worry, even though it's possible for the manual to be updated online, it never happens because whatever the device is receives no support anyway.

      So figure 1-2 hours at your fully-loaded billing rate, plus the per-page cost of printing if you do that, plus the cost of filing the printed manual so you can find it in the future, and the cost of the storage space (physical paper or server). For most of us, that's not less than $100, and probably much more for many.

    11. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Hardly anybody reads the manuals.
      2) The few that do, usually google it instead.
      3) Manuals need updating far too frequently to be worth printing.
      4) Printing manuals costs more than putting them up on the Internet.
      5) Printing manuals does not increase sales nor reduce technical support costs.

    12. Re:Dead trees cost money by NitroWolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's no CTRL-F on a printed manual, so why bother when I can use an electronic one and search for what I want to know?

    13. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool. Show me where I can read the manual for my Google Pixel.

    14. Re:Dead trees cost money by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      Really? What's the last thing that it took you over an hour to find the manual for? The last thing I can think of was the repair manual for a 1984 mercury outboard. Any piece of tech from the last decade, if you can't find it in 10 minutes you need to turn in your nerd card.

    15. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you get this "free" internet - I pay a significant monthly fee...

      CAP === 'entice'

    16. Re:Dead trees cost money by Pascoea · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well shit, that took all of 30 seconds. https://support.google.com/pix...

    17. Re:Dead trees cost money by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      I'm replacing a leaky faucet in my bathroom because there's not a manufacturer's name / model number stamped anywhere I can find, at least without removing it. I need that info to locate a replacement cartridge for it. If I go to the trouble of removing it, I would replace it unless it was expensive (in this case it's not).

      So the issue sometimes is that it's difficult to identify the item. Cheap electronics are notorious for this, and if the company is based in China / Taiwan / Korea etc the language barrier might make it difficult to find on the interwebs. On the other hand, I've found manuals and parts guides for most things I need, so YMMV is probably best here.

    18. Re:Dead trees cost money by StuartHankins · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I miss Byte, Compute, RUN etc. It really made it possible to start from nothing and become proficient in a compressed timeframe. Typing the listings not only increased your typing ability (duh!) but they also made you more careful, since a typo wasn't always easy to spot. Sometimes a typo could take you on an entirely different path of exploration and sometimes it would lock up the machine. It was a really great experience that shaped my life.

    19. Re:Dead trees cost money by StuartHankins · · Score: 2

      You bring up a good point, that is many modern manuals lack organization. There just isn't as much thought put into it when searching the entire content is easy.

      Conversely, sometimes context matters and a search through a large tome reveals dozens of hits for a term. It's in those cases that you appreciate the time and effort someone put into properly arranging and indexing the content. It's almost a lost skill.

    20. Re: Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An OCe14104-u-te.

      I still haven't found it

    21. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were you really going to save the manual for a bathroom faucet anyway?

    22. Re: Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So everyone should have dead tree manuals printed for every item they have to immedialy toss in th trash, just because you are too stupid to look up the manual before you head out of wireless range.

    23. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah - recycling is a thing. Instead why dont we worry about these fancy boxes they make me purchase with my device? Ever buy a decent gaming headset? WTF are you doing wasting a portion of my $$ on a box Im going to throwaway. Are we as consumers that stupi... ugh. Waste the trees on a nice manual. Half the time I cant find the appropriate manual online and often where I am troubleshooting isnt in front of the computer.

    24. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also:

      Adds to BOM cost.

      Increased shipping weight and volume.

      This is 2018. It's out of date before it's been printed.

      Nobody reads them anyway.

      What the fuck is with this site and old men asking stupid questions they should know the answers to?

    25. Re: Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, would you not have internet if you had printed manuals for everything?

    26. Re:Dead trees cost money by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I find it easier to google the manual online than find the one that came in the box with the product.

      Unless the product in question is your modem/router etc.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    27. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are supposed to call Technical Support. Please have your American Express card number at the ready ...

    28. Re: Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the expensive mixer taps then absolutely yes. I have fancy Swedish taps and the manual was essential for working out how to get into them and what (unfortunately expensive) cartridge is required. They look lovely but :)

    29. Re:Dead trees cost money by hey! · · Score: 1

      I think this is part to the reason. There's also the fact that most people refuse the read the manual anyway. For years that was my killer competitive advantage, I didn't mind reading anything, manuals, RFCs, academic papers, but it's still a lot to ask manufacturers to put money into something only maybe five percent of their customers use.

      Finally, we live in a world of international trade. This is not about American manufacturers making stuff for English speaking Americans. Stuff gets made in China and shipped all over the world. So you're likely to get some kind of pictogram instructions with some hints in five or six languages.

      These pictogram things aren't necessarily bad. I just bought some high end, Taiwan-manufactured bicycle components from a company called SRAM which came with one of those pictogram things that was *excellent*. The thing is, hiring somebody who is good at communicating visually is just as expensive as hiring someone who speaks a foreign language to translate. The real problem is that we're addicted to buying cheap, throwaway crap.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    30. Re:Dead trees cost money by dohzer · · Score: 1

      Free? What's this "Net Neutrality" thing anyway?!

    31. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The internet is free.

      Lucky! Please give me the info of your Internet provider because mine costs 50 USD month and has an ugly data cap.

    32. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, buying a tablet or a second monitor or a laser printer to read it isn't free.

    33. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A book can have such as thing as an Index, and a Table of Contents. That's old-school CTRL-F, sonny.

    34. Re:Dead trees cost money by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      I have scanned and OCRed a few key books of mine so that I can do just that.

      It's soooooo much faster than the index or table of contents for just find a keyword.

    35. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well shit, that took all of 30 seconds. https://support.google.com/pix...

      Yeah, this info doesn't explain why you can't hear your phone when there's a case specifically designed for this phone on it. Turns out it's because the type of speaker system is actually using the surface of the phone as a soundboard. The only reason I found that was to read a tear down article. (In other words, TFM didn't have the info necessary.)

    36. Re:Dead trees cost money by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      I make a judgment call on how much something costs and how likely I may need it later. For a faucet, you need to know the make and model so you can replace the cartridge 5-10 years later and sometimes the handles don't come off in an obvious manner. So yes I would have saved the faucet manual, it's just that I didn't purchase this one.

    37. Re:Dead trees cost money by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 1

      Typing programs in from those magazines and books that were just whole collections of source code is how I learned BASIC. At first I just ignorantly typed in what was printed on the pages which was great typing practice.

      Quite often the version of BASIC in the program listings was just different enough not to work and of course I made typos as well.

      That made it even more educational.

    38. Re:Dead trees cost money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back pages, index by word.

  11. Reading is for jerks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're not a jerk, are you? Because I can't imagine a world where you'd want to read about the new shiny object rather than touch it, fondle it, attempt to understand it through osmosis, and maybe, if you're really lost, post online about how you just bought this new shiny object that has no manual so you can humble-brag about having the newest shiny object.

    In truth, it's because most places don't want to bother writing documentation at all, instead relying on users to disperse information through the net. It's a sad truth, but truth none-the-less.

  12. Because no one writes them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cost to print/include the manual likely isn't the hold back here. It probably isn't even the extra weight for shipping (although I imagine that is a factor, eating into profit margins).

    No, they don't include manuals frequently because they aren't written. Some electronics might have basic ones, but in the modern world of support websites, even when I can download a manual, it is often superseded by an FAQ website or company-hosted forums. If they know that's the longterm support outcome, why bother paying for all the development time and copy editing to create a high quality document few people will actually read?

    The OP here assumes the increase in cost is entirely to do with the paper/printing/inclusion, but I suspect it is costly long before that, in the writing phase.

    1. Re:Because no one writes them by mattyj · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Every piece of hardware I own, TV, soundbar, laptop, game console, etc., has a proper, downloadable PDF manual with lots of good info in it. Most are well written and designed.

      If, say, LG anticipates selling 20,000 of a certain model of TV, the costs of physically printing and shipping all those manuals is significant. They don't have their own printing plant so when I say cost, I mean the cost of printing and shipping the manuals to LG HQ.

      Plus the argument that 99% of people immediately throw that away, which is true, has to factor in.

      Overall it's just a waste of time, energy, money and little chunks of our planet for something that even us old guys in 2018 get online if we need it.

      If you're buying a piece of hardware and it doesn't have a proper manual available online, you're buying garbage.

    2. Re:Because no one writes them by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      How long must the manufacturer retain manuals online? All too often you can't see the manual for Rev A, they only have Rev D online. I'm not against electronic manuals but there are real conditions where a printed manual is of benefit. Maybe manuals could be treated like accessories, and you could buy the manual and have it shipped to you separately. I am aware that some manuals are available as replacement parts but it often isn't straightforward / cheap / simple to get these quickly and easily.

      There was a project I read about some time ago, where a person could choose a book from a list and have it printed on demand -- this tech could work, maybe put a kiosk in an office supply store or print shop with this functionality. A Makers moment of some import, yes?

  13. Because of the cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have to realize even the most basic manual of instructions comes in a multitude of languages. Making a simple instructive manual into a total mess. But it mostly comes down to bean counters deciding that a printed manual is permanent, its difficult to make changes, and these days most have some sort of internet access to a manual online at anytime. For many people they end up reading it once and throwing it out in the garbage as well. I actually look for car makers to dump the paper manuals as well soon and incorporate them into the head unit displays. Or provide a application to download them on a mobile device of which many have already done.

  14. It took courage to remove the manual by gachunt · · Score: 2

    "The reason to move on: courage. The courage to move on and do something new that betters all of us."

    1. Re:It took courage to remove the manual by Drethon · · Score: 2

      "The reason to move on: courage. The courage to move on and better line the executives pockets."

      Translated that for you.

    2. Re:It took courage to remove the manual by Drethon · · Score: 1

      "The reason to move on: courage. The courage to move on and do something new that does more to line the executives pockets."

      Translated that for you.

    3. Re:It took courage to remove the manual by Drethon · · Score: 1

      "The reason to move on: courage. The courage to move on and do something new that does more to line the executives pockets."

      Translated that for you.

      Hmm, the first one didn't show up even after I refreshed the page so I thought I failed to hit submit. My apologies for the dup...

    4. Re:It took courage to remove the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really nailed it the second time! I think I speak for everyone here when I say I'd like to see what the third post would look like!!

    5. Re:It took courage to remove the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really nailed it the second time! I think I speak for everyone here when I say I'd like to see what the third post would look like!!

    6. Re:It took courage to remove the manual by Drethon · · Score: 1

      You really nailed it the second time! I think I speak for everyone here when I say I'd like to see what the third post would look like!!

      Then I retract my apology for the dup post and apologize for the original post =)

  15. Where do you put it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you get manuals with everything you buy you have to put them somewhere, no?

    And then when you need it, chances are it isn't right next to you so you have to go and find it. I put them in the cloud and its easy to look at my collection from whatever device is near me at the time.

    1. Re:Where do you put it? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's called a bookshelf. Of course most people buy them from somewhere like Ikea and they can't figure out how to put them together.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  16. Tmen shì zhèyàng; n bù dú by mujadaddy · · Score: 0

    ;

    Tmen shì zhèyàng; n bù dú zhngwén ma?

    --
    Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
    "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
  17. Because almost nobody ever read it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, do you really read your phone manual? Or your graphics card manual? Maybe your PS4 console manual?

    I guess things nowadays are literally idiot proofed enough that anyone can turn on the stuff and use it away without reading anything at all. If any doubt arises, people just use web search and call it a day.

  18. Get Off My Lawn! by overlook77 · · Score: 1

    Back in my days we had PRINTED manuals!!

    1. Re:Get Off My Lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In my day, the manuals were on stone tablets, or incorporated into folk songs passed on from generation to generation, and we liked it fine.

    2. Re:Get Off My Lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Back in my days, the full electronic schematic for a radio was attached to the inside of the removable back cover.

    3. Re:Get Off My Lawn! by sconeu · · Score: 1

      You had stone tablets? We had to wait for the stellar dust cloud to congeal into planets first.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:Get Off My Lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have three Sansui 8 Receivers, because I only collect the best.
      Each one has a pouch underneath that has the Owners Manual, the Service Manual, and an A2 sized Schematic, with Voltage points. The 8 cost around $600 in 1972; about $3600 today. If you've ever taken one apart just to look at how it was put together, the level of attention paid to detail is amazing. Three Stages of _AM_ RF Amplification. Under the real Walnut cabinet on either side are vented covers over the TO-3 Output Transistors; pulling the covers reveals Gold Anodized heat sinks, and over each OT is a Black Anodized heat sink cap with Sansui machined into it. Who would ever see this?
      These were Flagship Receivers; Marantz before Superscope took over did the same thing: The best quality for discerning customers who were expected to be knowledgeable about such matters.

      1960 era Ferraris came with an Owners Manual that included such information as the tightening and torquing sequence for the Cylinder Head bolts, and instructions for a Front End Alignment. Included in the tool kit was a Ring Compressor and a Cylinder Hone. If you didn't know what these were and how to use them, you had no business owning a 1960 era Ferrari.

      I recently bought the oddest thing, a portable 120VAC/12VDC Icemaker. These are so unusual that a schematic is provided on the bottom cover. Otherwise, any repair requires shipping back to China. Hint: The bare wire sensor for water flow above the Lift Pump tends to gum up.

      But recently, when I was having Wifi problems with this Macbook, the pathetic excuse for Apple Help gave me this:
      "The selected topic is currently unavailable
      Make sure you’re connected to the Internet. For help connecting, choose Apple menu > System Preferences, click Network, and click “Assist me.”
      If you’re connected to the Internet, and the content still doesn’t appear, try again later."

      That's Apples attitude these days; if Wifi won't work, simply try again later.
      I still have Volumes I to VI of "Inside Macintosh", but they weren't much help.

      The time when Owners were expected to understand and even repair their Gear is gone. I can still probably rebuild the old VW Type IV FI Black Box; it was all analog. But I fear that soon even the Lawns that we shoo people away from will be Digital.

      -Vetus Pedit

  19. People don't care by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, devices came with thick, detailed manuals back then. People also typically didn't read those manuals. The vast majority of people either just stumbled their way through "figuring it out" or avoided the product entirely as being overly complicated.

    These days, more work has gone into product design to make things intuitive so that people can just "figure it out" easier rather than providing the manual that will go unused anyways. At most things will typically come with a "Quick Start Guide" to give you the most basic of instructions to get the device up and going - and for the most part that's what the market wants.

    Those manuals cost money - both to print and to pay someone to write in the first place. Offer the same product on the shelves - one without a manual and one that costs $5 extra that includes it. I'd wager quite a few dollars that the one without the manual will outsell the one that includes it 20 to 1.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    1. Re:People don't care by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Wireless printers and modern routers are a great example. Press the WPS button on both. Wait a bit. Printer spits out a sheet telling you it's all set up.

      I may still have the manual for one of the first wireless printers I bought kicking around somewhere. I can still recall how much of a pain in the ass it was to get set up and configured. Wireless SSID and password which needed to be entered using arrow keys, choosing the correct settings, FFS might have needed some port fiddling too.

      Why spend a million dollars on hundreds of thousands of manuals when you can pay your engineers to design a push-button system? It's good for marketing too.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:People don't care by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Yes, devices came with thick, detailed manuals back then. People also typically didn't read those manuals. The vast majority of people either just stumbled their way through "figuring it out" or avoided the product entirely as being overly complicated.

      These days, more work has gone into product design to make things intuitive so that people can just "figure it out" easier rather than providing the manual that will go unused anyways. At most things will typically come with a "Quick Start Guide" to give you the most basic of instructions to get the device up and going - and for the most part that's what the market wants.

      Those manuals cost money - both to print and to pay someone to write in the first place. Offer the same product on the shelves - one without a manual and one that costs $5 extra that includes it. I'd wager quite a few dollars that the one without the manual will outsell the one that includes it 20 to 1.

      Those points and one more - writing a printed manual took a lot of time. You're looking at a good 6 months of advance writing to get it all done and printed so it can be put in the box by shipping time.

      For the ultra thick reference manuals, it can take years to write.

      And a simple change in the software can render the whole thing completely obsolete and require re-writing to contain the latest changes. Just a single firmware update can add new options that render the manual dead and require printing a new version to explain the new options.

      Given the number of people who actually read the manual front to back, effort is best concentrated on making the UI usable, adding context-aware help documents (i.e., online manuals, online help) and other tools to provide you with just the bit of knowledge you need.

      Any generic knowledge can often be provided by a generic book or course on the topic - using a word processor, spreadsheet or other generic office program, for example.

      The reason we had manuals in the 80s was that was the only way to spreading information around - without easy access to online services providing manuals, FAQs, community boards, etc, often the only information you had was whatever documentation came with the device. And nothing sucked worse when you take your expensive new toys home only to find out you are missing the Foo 2000 adapter cable when you're setting it up, something you only knew when you tried to hook everything up.

      It also meant software updates were rare - sometimes when you sent in the registration cards you'd get back a floppy disk with a note saying it contains several essential fixes for issues they discovered, but that was often the only update you got. Maybe if you wrote them about a problem you had, in 2-4 weeks you'd get another update.

    3. Re:People don't care by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      I think that's a great idea, let us pay the $5 for the printed manual. I would go a step further and have a kiosk at print shops / office supply stores that could print bound books on demand from online content. Printing / hole-punching / binding a 300-page RHEL course so I have something to scribble on would be great. Home laser printers don't produce great output for this especially if you're doing N-up or work with many gradients. A manual for a shop tool is no different -- some environments aren't great for electronics, and I'm getting too old to see tiny print, so printing it is worth a $5 charge to me.

    4. Re:People don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still working my way through my HP-48G manual (over 20 years later)...

    5. Re:People don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wireless printers and modern routers are a great example. Press the WPS button on both. Wait a bit. Printer spits out a sheet telling you it's all set up.

      I may still have the manual for one of the first wireless printers I bought kicking around somewhere. I can still recall how much of a pain in the ass it was to get set up and configured. Wireless SSID and password which needed to be entered using arrow keys, choosing the correct settings, FFS might have needed some port fiddling too.

      Why spend a million dollars on hundreds of thousands of manuals when you can pay your engineers to design a push-button system? It's good for marketing too.

      Setup for insecurity you mean

  20. Because apparently people don't RTFM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  21. Electronic Manuals by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 1

    The last few laptops I have gotten game with electronic manuals. They were nicely formatted, complete, on the usb stick that came with the laptop so I could view it offline along with a complete set of drivers and other recovery information.

    I much prefer electronic manuals to paper ones.

    --
    Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    1. Re:Electronic Manuals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But could we at least get manuals back for motherboards. A CD with the manual is nice AFTER you built the computer....

    2. Re:Electronic Manuals by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 1

      That one I can ABSOLUTELY agree with.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
  22. The cost and the logistics are important factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was part of the decision to remove printed manuals from the shipped product. The first trigger was that the manuals were often outdated (software, hardware and instructions evolve), and we didn't want to ship an "incorrect" manual. Waiting for the new manuals to come back from the printer delayed shipment of the product. The cost was second, but everyone was happy to save $25k a year of printing costs (everything counts). Finally, our technical support staff was certain that most customers didn't read the manual before calling us for support.

  23. Google is the manual by jetkust · · Score: 1

    I'm usually irritated if I ever have to crack open a manual, which is almost never. What is this guy studying on the couch? Does he read manuals like it's a novel?

    1. Re:Google is the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The manual is usually a very short novel. 2/3 of it covers the mandatory legal warnings and warranty (the latter being: fugedaboutit and if you have a problem with that you must use arbitration that we control), the rest is along the lines of: press the power switch then follow the prompts on the screen. Which is then repeated in at least 3 other languages.

      Back In The Day, computers came with complete descriptions of the hardware, diagrams of how to get to major pieces and change them, how to set the DIP switches for various functions (thank goodness that's all covered in the ROM now!), how to enter the BIOS, tables of BIOS properties and settings and their results, and sometimes even operating system manuals that detailed all of the system calls for you to use in assembly language or by POKEs and PEEKs in BASIC. These days, you turn it on and if it doesn't work you find another device to search the internet for "how do I enter the BIOS or UEFI for _____" then once you get there you hopefully get some kind of help in the box alongside the properties. If you can't get it to work you return it or throw it away and buy something else. O/S manuals are impossible because there are too many system calls - and besides that's covered in the programming language or library online manuals that are part of the integrated programming environmient that takes 10s of gigabytes of storage and costs $100s-1000s and nobody is going to use unless they're in the business of building Real Software.

      Users are Users; if it doesn't work when it's turned on, no reasonable manual will help. It is commonly (and not without some justification) assumed that Users have the attention span of a gnat and approximately a gnat's intelligence. That can be used against them, as when Android or Windows 10 have defaults that are abusive but assume that most Users will simply click through and accept them because that's what they're trained from birth to do. Manuals won't change that.

  24. Because the Internet exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy moley what a pinhead.

  25. Online Manuals: by Hartree · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To find out why your smartphone won't connect to the internet, just connect to the internet to download the manual telling you why you can't connect.

    What could be simpler?

    1. Re:Online Manuals: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go to one of the other dozen internet connected devices you or a friend or another family member own and get it from there?

    2. Re:Online Manuals: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ah, you remind me of one of my favourite 1980 error codes, maybe is was error 84 "no keyboard, hit any key to continue".

    3. Re:Online Manuals: by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What kind of a 3rd world do you live in where you don't have access to an internet connection to debug another internet connetion?

      No I would have asked this in a Dibert style way maybe 10 years ago, but now... seriously. Can't figure out how to go online, just download the damn manual. If you can't figure out how maybe you shouldn't be using electronics.

    4. Re:Online Manuals: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using your newly bought scissors to cut open your pack of newly bought scissors.

  26. Lots of products ship with manuals by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Just not computers. Considering the typical computing device product cycle, it's unlikely that a printed manual would be both reliable and useful by the time the customer opens the product and loads the first update over the net. Plus contextual help on anything with a reasonably sophisticated UI is probably more helpful, anyway.

  27. Ask the question... by necro81 · · Score: 1

    Is everyone supposed to look up everything online now, even in places where there is no internet connection?

    Yes. That is what you are supposed to do. What is the point of a printed manual for a whiz-bang piece of tech like an Android phone or $2000-$5000 laptop when there is no internet connection? Maybe such tech is still useful without the connection, but that is a tiny minority of use cases. That tiny minority does not justify the expense of preparing, printing, and distributing manuals.

    A more common use case would be this: a manufacturer goes through the expense of preparing, printing, and distributing manuals with their product. Then, after all that effort, 75% of end users never even open it. Of those that do open it, most will never reference it later on. A tiny fraction of users will reference several times during the life of the device. Some users will look at the printed manual, puzzle over the table of contents, and wonder where all the hyperlinks are. What, no search tool? Another thing to consider is currency: hardware and software changes often, and probably as soon as the manual was prepared and published, some of the information in it would be dated, misleading, incorrect, or otherwise out-of-sync with reality. Keeping a soft copy up-to-date (like an online support page) is much easier.

    1. Re: Ask the question... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Cost is a huge factor. Not just to cost to print the manual but the cost to ship the manual as well. If a manual is 1 kg or 2.2 lbs, what's the total cost to ship the manuals from the printing plant to the assembly plant? If the product run is 100,000 units, that's 100,000 kg to ship. Then the additional weight is added to the shipping weight of the final product which is an additional cost.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re: Ask the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The weight of the manual is not 1kg, it's 1 lbs. Pretty much by definition (the weight of an old timey book)

    3. Re: Ask the question... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      1lb or 1 kg: It adds additional cost in shipped expenses alone to put a manual in a product.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re: Ask the question... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Cost is a huge factor. Not just to cost to print the manual but the cost to ship the manual as well.

      Then as soon as you turn the phone on the first time, it's downloading Mealy Migrant or Washingmachine Wombat or whatever cute name the developers have given the latest update ("Marshmallow"? Really?) and the manual is completely wrong anyway. Like, "when you are receiving no signal, you will see no bars on the display". Woopsie. Now you see all five bars with a small line through them.

  28. Ageism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt anyone under the age of 20 has ever read a printed book let alone a manual. Distributing information on physical media vs electronically is an order of magnitude more expensive. What you imagine is a trivial expense to manufacture, store and ship printed material may not be so in large quantities. Andr electronic manuals can be corrected and updated far more readily than printed material.

  29. Pros and Cons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The optimist in me says that digital manuals are more convenient anyways. Don't take up any physical space, harder to lose, you can Ctrl + F whatever you're looking for. The pessimist in me says they just want to get the less tech-savvy to sign up for their customer support tech expert services. The gamer in me misses when reading the manual and looking at its illustrations was the foreplay before the game.

  30. Because the printed manuals would be out of date by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The printed manuals would be out of date as soon as the device connects to the internet and updates.

    Duh?

  31. We are 1% of the pop, the 99% dont read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The people that got home computers in the 80ies and 90ies are the geeks/nerds. When the common man began buying computers/electronics they never read any manuals, and the manufacturers understood this. So they stopped printing it.

    But I agree, it would be nice to be able to pay $3 extra for a manual.

    I wonder what the manual would say for a brand new computer though. Would it contain information about all the chips and the BIOS and UEFI and stuff, or is that something the manufacturers don't really want anyone to know about? Maybe it would just simply be way too much information to fit it into a manual.

    If nothing else, it would be lovely to have a *comprehensive* documentation of the thing one bought. I guess the only way to get that is by buying a RISC-V desktop computer -- which there only is one of atm, and its a dev-board.. In theory system76 could maybe provide it as well.

    Whatever

    1. Re:We are 1% of the pop, the 99% dont read by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Why do hate those of us who made S-100 bus computers in the 70s so?

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  32. Good technical writers are in short supply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the good ones get paid a premium. Generally they gavitate to big contractors, as in the defense and aerospace industry.

  33. I Agree by Joshs922 · · Score: 1

    It's just another way the world was better in the 1980s.

  34. Easy by nospam007 · · Score: 2

    Just buy an iPhone, it needs no manuals, even 80year olds can use them.

    1. Re:Easy by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      Just buy an iPhone, it needs no manuals,

      Even an iPhone needs some manner of instruction, it may not be a manual, but the instruction is needed. Typically, if you've never used on, there is someone nearby to help you get started.

      even 80year olds can use them.

      Yes, that is correct, after some amount of instruction of how to use them. Give an iPhone to an person in their 80s who has never seen a smartphone before, and come back with your observations.

    2. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just buy an iPhone, it needs no manuals, even 80year olds can use them.

      Yup, so dumbed down, even a caveman could use it.

    3. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just buy an iPhone, it needs no manuals, even 80year olds can use them.

      I think that's probably the dumbest thing I've read today.

      iOS and Android user interfaces are decidedly non-intuitive. Too many things rely on you knowing to long-press something or make some specific gesture, things you would never know if nobody had shown you.

      Even today's desktop UIs are becoming less and less discoverable.

    4. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to edit your post and tack on "What's a computer?" to the end.

    5. Re:Easy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Ironically the last Apple guide I saw was titled something like "Apple iPhone Simplified" kind of like an idiots guide. It weighed in at 380 pages and cost €25

    6. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok. Gave an iPhone to my mum who has never used a smartphone. Previous phone was a dumb flip phone. She was able to figure out the contacts, making calls, and texting without any help. I just stood there ready to if needed, but wasn't needed.

      In my experience, most people can figure out iOS just by touching and playing.

    7. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because most of us aren't hipster d(_)che bags that buy overpriced iGarbage, eat quiche, and listen to U2.

  35. No one cares by enjar · · Score: 1
    • Manufacturers/designers have put enormous time and effort into designing things so they don't require a manual to have basic functionality working quickly. Consumer after consumer will appreciate well-designed things that are easy to use. They will pick consumer goods that are easier to use.
    • Tools like setup wizard or workflow will take you through the relevant steps to get up and running. Manufacturers will spend money/time/effort on a nice guided setup routine rather than commit those things to a manual. Even better, devices will have an option to "just start over" if someone wants to, or if they sell it, and by that time they have lost the manual or recycled it.
    • Up and coming generations like Millenials and Generation Z grew up with Google and Youtube being an extension of their brain (not to discount how much of my brain I've outsourced). By far, people of this generation will Google a question or search for a video on Youtube. A device manufacturer will spend money on SEO and producing videos/online help that are the first Google hit rather than printing a manual. With the far better voice control nowadays, even older generations that used to have problems with small fiddly buttons on a phone screen will just ask how to do something out loud and expect to be shown how to do it. In some cases, the voice/help assistants will even open the relevant settings page to make a change.
    • With regular updates being very common, a manual is often out of date as soon as it is printed. You can change the videos or online doc to reflect new UI elements, new features, new ways of doing things on an old device. You can't change a printed manual
  36. Simple answer: by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    Cost and lack of a general need. Who reads manuals? Really, who reads manuals that cannot download one?

    1. Re:Simple answer: by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      Worse than that, neither a printed manual, nor the search functions built into virtual manuals are any real use.

      Far faster to just type your question into Google. I use Google to search for MSDN Microsoft development issues given their built in search function is an idiotic programmer's lazy wrapper around an internal string search function.

      Microsoft's search jas even apparently forgotten context-sensitive search was invented 30 years ago.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Simple answer: by tepples · · Score: 1

      who reads manuals that cannot download one?

      Someone setting up for the first time the computer and Internet connection with which to download a manual.

  37. 99% don't even change the default settings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They buy their stuff and then just use it. Its supposed to Just Work. They don't give a ****.

  38. 4 or 6 pages stapled might seem trivial to you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you know how many so-called booklets or instruction manuals you'd have to print for the Xbox? Eight million. This won't be 4 pages; more like 34. Now think about all them trees you'd have to chop down -- do I need to go on?
     
    All this, not to answer your question, but instead to prove to one and all the one single purpose that the Xbox is good for: a really bad example, even for this type of Ask Slashdot question

  39. Printed Manuals == Smart Users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My First PC, with 256Kb, thats Kb, of ram had 3 sets of manuals.

    1 for MS-DOS, which taught me everything I needed to know, complete with examples.
    1 for the Deskmate "GUI" which taught me how to use all the aplications [ spreadsheet, database, modem, etc ]
    1 for GWBASIC complete with code examples.

    these were each 100 pages or so, but they were VERY well written, had detailed specs about the computer/application.

    Now, people are nothing but "pointers and clickers", which is what companies want.

    Look! a FREE toolbar! tools are good! can never have enough of those!

    of course I'll click install!

    A FREE system check-up, of course! How can I lose!

  40. Nobody reads manuals. by shbazjinkens · · Score: 2

    Consumer products today should be produced with the aid of UX experts and UX studies, so that they are intuitive enough that manuals are not required. Features that are too advanced to be understood without the assistance of a manual should never be compulsory to use, and regarded as customizations for expert users who will research themselves.

    No product these days should ever require a manual - we have the tools available to make it possible to produce products intuitive enough that manuals are unnecessary. If you'd like some help learning about it yourself, I suggest you read Steve Krug's "Don't Make Me Think" and Don Norman's books for more extensive advice. If your everyday consumer product requires a manual, you're a failure as a designer. The only exceptions to this are really, crazy advanced products, and even then a lot more could usually be done to make them easier to use.

    If you want a book on Android, you can buy several, there's no shortage.

    Check out the winner of this years Ignobel prize in Literature: Life Is Too Short to RTFM: How Users Relate to Documentation and Excess Features in Consumer Products

    1. Re:Nobody reads manuals. by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      "UX experts"

      Are these the kinds of UX experts we had in the 80s and early 90s from companies like IBM and Microsoft that gave us CUI and largely standardized computer interfaces in a logical and consistent manner, or are these the "UX experts" of 2018 (also from Microsoft) that are art-school drop-outs who think pale grey text on a white background with so much whitespace that you can't fit more than 3 controls on the entire computer screen is a good idea, where you have to poke at every little piece of ornamentation because you can't tell what's chrome and what's actually a control?

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    2. Re:Nobody reads manuals. by shbazjinkens · · Score: 1

      You've taken the convenient opportunity to bitch about the UX field and how much smarter you are than them without giving any relevant input on the topic at hand, unless you think a paper user manual would improve the users ability to use a terrible, unreadable color combination.

      Sure, in the 80's and 90's when UX was in its infancy, nobody was very good at it. After accumulating decades of use-case experience and improved technological affordances a baby can find videos they like on an android or apple tablet. I got tired of explaining over-complicated and poorly designed industrial user interfaces a long time ago and started to study up on UX myself so I don't need to rely on art school dropouts, or even worse, crotchety old programmers such as yourself, to fix it for me. If you're having struggles with UX designers, maybe you can benefit from reading a couple of books on the subject too. Both of the complaints you have are well-understood and documented in the most basic of UX books.

  41. Because they save a penny, and get away with it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There aren't enough discerning customers out there.
    Everybody complains about lack of quality, but as long as they keep choosing "bargains" over quality, the latter will be increasingly hard to find.
    To me, a good manual is often a knockout criterium when I select what to buy;
    If they cared enough to put together a structured, readable manual, they probably did the rest of the homework.

  42. Another reason: software updates by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    Software updates that add and/or remove features quickly make the printed manual you got with the item obsolete.

  43. Because hardly anyone by thrillseeker · · Score: 1

    can read more than 140 characters on a single subject any longer.

  44. Duh... by Not-a-Neg · · Score: 1

    Manuals are printed at a cost to the manufacturer, placed in the box by a worker paid by the manufacturer, adds weight to the package shipped by the manufacturer, and potentially ends up going missing at a replacement cost to the manufacturer. The more of those boxes they can pack into a shipping container from China the lower their costs will be.

    --
    -==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
  45. There are plenty of reasons by bobstreo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, most people have seen or used something similar to what they have purchased. This was not true when computers/software... was first available.

    Second, the printed material was probably already outdated when it was originally printed, much more so when updates to the software/microcode have been made.

    Third, the lack of enough (good) translators that can actually take the original language and make enough sense of it and carry that over to other languages.

    Fourth, If something is simple enough to use without a manual, why bother printing one?

    Fifth, Search engines with access to Online manuals and support group sites, combined with phone/email support can answer most questions. If you need detailed information, the answers a click away.

    1. Re:There are plenty of reasons by hackertourist · · Score: 1

      Lack of translators? No. I write manuals for a living and we've never had a lack of good translators (and we tested their translations). What you do get is cheapskate companies unwilling to pay for a good translation so they either let Google auto-mangle the translation or they illegally don't provide them at all.

    2. Re:There are plenty of reasons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sixth, it's better not to have to figure out a place to store all those bulky manuals.

      Seventh, backing up a paper manual is time consuming and expensive.

      Eighth, why recycle when you can reduce.

      Ninth, an electronic document can have hyperlinks to additional material.

    3. Re:There are plenty of reasons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If things are simple enough, could you please explain how to find and then move files she just downloaded onto her USB stick to my wife? I am really fed up of explaining her for the 20th time :( With a manual, I could tell her to RTFM !!!

    4. Re:There are plenty of reasons by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      the printed material was probably already outdated

      This reminds me of my car manual: "if you have feature X, then pushing the button Y will do Z". How about they telling me whether I have feature X and they don't waste space in manual for features that do not exist in my model?

    5. Re:There are plenty of reasons by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      But where we get all those hilarious listicles with amusing examples of Japanglish, Chinglish and Koreanglish?

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    6. Re:There are plenty of reasons by hackertourist · · Score: 1

      When you pay peanuts, the work is done by monkeys. Or very small shell scripts.

  46. Haters gonna hate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To those who have said "who cares" or "stupid question" etc. you just don't get it. I do.

    I remember the day I cracked open the box for Ultima VI (in particular) - and in all it's glory were a cloth map of Britannia, two (count 'em) manuals (spellbook and general adventuring guide), and an "authentic replic Orb of the Moons moonstone" (a key item in game).

    Lots of games of that era were like that, it was Good Times, it made it an *experience* - as opposed to "Activate Steam Key and Download".

    They were also able to do some clever copy protection with manuals on some games, fro example, in an adventure game you might get asked a question "The King asks you 'What is word X in line Y of page Z?' " and if you get it wrong, well sucks to pirate that game because you shall not pass.

    I do miss that stuff, it was cool.

    In answer to the question though, $$$, cost of developing materials, and it's then got to be boxed, and freighted/distributed. Internet distribution saves money to make a better value product, I mean, increases profit margins. I don't see prices going down on electronic only software.

    1. Re:Haters gonna hate. by Octorian · · Score: 1

      I remember the day I cracked open the box for Ultima VI (in particular) - and in all it's glory were a cloth map of Britannia, two (count 'em) manuals (spellbook and general adventuring guide), and an "authentic replic Orb of the Moons moonstone"

      Today this seems to have been replaced with one of two (mutually-exclusive?) options:
      1) An in-game reference that's hopefully convenient to use, but might not be.
      2) A completely unofficial 3rd party wiki site, that's very inconvenient to use (unless you have a secondary laptop/device next to your gaming machine).

  47. Why? Costs. by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    Someone has to write it, edit it, translate it, print it, pack it, ship it, unpack it, put it in the box that has to be enlarged to allow it to fit, ship it again, and for what? 90% of consumers won't even read it. It will go straight into a bin (a recycling bin if lucky, most likely just into landfill trash). So not including it is a cost savings and environmental savings. Think about it this way, in Q1 2018 there were 383,503,900 smartphones sold worldwide. If each one came with a 200 page manual, that's 38,350,390,000 pages (100 double side printed pages per manual) of paper essentially wasted. Now let's assume it's about A6 size paper. That's around 1.41g per sheet, so 54,074,050 kg of paper, not including covers. All for just 3 months worth of phones. Now extrapolate that out for a decade. And that's just for phones.

    A better solution would be to include a manual on the device (for phones and laptops). You would at least save the cost of producing and shipping the physical manuals. Even so if you really need it, you can usually find setup and service manuals for laptops on the vendor website. Phones, well... There's always the For Dummies books.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  48. Too many class action suits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just one spelling mistake or errata suggesting a person swipe left instead of right and you âMuricans club together and sue....

  49. Then avoid lowest priced product on Alibaba by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The internet is free. I find it easier to google the manual online than find the one that came in the box with the product. Next question...

    I call BULLSHIT on that one .. everything I've bought in the last 5 years came without any type of manual and there wasn't one online .. only community forums.

    If that bothers you then perhaps you should avoid the lowest priced product available from an unknown vendor on Alibaba.

  50. They Aren't Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, printing them is really cheap. However you also need people to write them, do the layout, committees to argue over the graphics, artists creating the diagrams, supply management of getting the manuals from the printer and into the shipping box, etc... Crappy Q&A websites were the users answer other user's questions is far easier to maintain and you can censor things when you remotely remove a feature.

  51. This is what you get when you get manuals by samspock · · Score: 1

    Or at least, it should be. http://www.atarimania.com/docu...

  52. Really?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    @Uncle Rico - The first rule of development is that no one RTFM -- especially end-users. Even graybeards from the 60's know this. How far back are the "good old days" you're trying to relive?

  53. Cost and Accessibility by Kevoco · · Score: 1

    Printing is costly and if I want to search for a specific term, give a copy to a friend, keep an archival copy, or load one on to a mobile device: I want the electronic version

  54. The same reason you don't get invoices in the mail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's all digital because it's cheaper and easier. I keep manuals in a binder. Even if I have a manual, know that I have the manual and know where it is, I often just look at the digital version, even if I have to download it first. The digital version is searchable. What pisses me off though is when manufacturers think they don't need to provide a manual anymore or when they don't make their old manuals available online in a way that lets search engines find them.

  55. One company that had them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of my (now-defunct) startups sold shrink wrapped software, very consumer level. We always included printed manuals, because they were amazingly cheap and our CEO thought having one helped to distinguish us.

    I wrote most of them back in the day, and I was never encouraged to be brief or limit screen shots and illustrations. They wanted 60 pages or so (and it was all in English.)

  56. Recent artcile: Life Is Too Short to RTFM... by achowe · · Score: 1

    Life Is Too Short to RTFM: How Users Relate to Documentation and Excess Features in Consumer Products
    https://academic.oup.com/iwc/a...

  57. Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Manufacturers are not interested in creating users who know what they are doing.
      Designers tend to be of the persuasion that if it needs a manual, it isnt user friendly enough, and writing one anyway makes them look like quitters.
        Users themselves just want a black box with a go button that takes them to pleasureville.

    And there's nothing wrong with that. Many years ago - way before the internet - there was a computer scientist (a real one with a PhD) who said that computers should work according to the user's preference. Meaning a user starts typing at a command line (this was a long time ago) and the computer figures out what to do.

  58. Glad to see the back of paper manuals and books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone who's worked in IT for almost 30 years I'm glad to see the back of manuals. I remember every new release of Oracle used to come with a few CDs and about 50 lbs of "dead tree" manuals and at the time ( back in the 1990s ) there was nowhere to recycle anything so we simply dumped the lot out on the pavement for the garbage trucks to take away and dump in a landfill somewhere. We once went 3 years without throwing out the old manuals and it when we did we have about 5 stacks, 6 ft high to get rid of. Then we had one CD with every manual we needed and we all had a copy on our PCs and the world was a better place.

    Anyway come on guys, since when have guys ever admitting to needing the manual? You buy X product and your wife/gf says "Honey, perhaps you should read the..." and the standard reply is, "No, no it's alright dear I'll work it out, can't be that hard can it?". Of course we all know we'll still be trying to fathom out how to turn the damn thing on at 2am but we will not have admitted defeat and allow a device to get the better of us! We're men, now behave like men and throw away any manuals! ( Alright, put them in a drawer and go back in about 3 years time when you finally get so bored you want to read it! )

  59. Logistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adding a printed component makes it harder to get everything right. It increases the difficulty of shipping your product. Sometimes it can even force you to delay shipment.

    There's just no upside in most cases, and only a few people read the manual anyway. So it makes sense to do only with a certain set of devices, mostly expensive devices that can be destroyed easily or devices that can harm people if they're used wrong. Also when the manual can yield more revenue for the product creator by helping with sales.

    So Chainsaws may get manuals, for example, with warnings about how to cut down a tree and warnings that, for example, most accidents happen while limbing. Devices with refrigerants may get manuals warning about how to transport them so you don't break them. Cars will get manuals that tell you roughly what maintenance the manufacturers recommend, but none of the manufacturers actually give you the service manuals by default.

  60. When was a manual ever 'proper'? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Printed manuals for electronic gear always did suck to varying degrees. It's true that back in the nineteen hundreds when machines like the Altair and Commodore were aimed at the hobbyist market, the writing was nerd-to-nerd rather than by the illiterate Chinese peasants who wrote the manuals for other electronics.

    Computer manuals have never been the worst. Try deciphering a camera manual sometime. After you invest in a new Kosmo-Kazac 5000 and are immediately lost in a maze of twisty little menus, all alike, you may be tempted to reach for the manual, which quaintly still comes in printed form. But you're better off with the PDF, which you can (1) display at a readable font size and (2) represents the current revision, rather than the one that was in print that day in Sichuang when the box was sealed.

    But experienced photographers know that they'll be still better off when a third-party guidebook called something like "Mastering The Kosmo-Kazac 5000" comes out. It will explain not only what each menu item means and how they interrelate, but but will tell you what settings are important for different kinds of photography. The guidebook, not the manufacturer manual, is what you will keep, well-thumbed, in your camera bag for the life of the device. And in a field with hardware so complex today that lenses have their own firmware updates, only a good third-party guide will tell you whether bringing the Exorbitar 24mm prime is a good choice for today's shooting with this particular camera.

  61. Required by law by Schugy · · Score: 0

    I can return things in my country if the manual is wrong or missing. Its only legislation.

    1. Re:Required by law by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Which raises the costs, and thus partly determines whether or not they bother to sell it in your country. I've lost track of how many people (mainly Brits, though that's probably just an English-language bias) I've seen on the net complain about how expensive their electronics are (vs. in the US), and in the next paragraph talk about how (e.g.) the consumer-protection laws they have mean that you can always do a warranty return to the store that sold you the device, rather than to the manufacturer. That kind of service isn't free, you know... our consumer protections are pretty minimal, but they are reflected in the lower prices we pay.

  62. People won't read them anyway by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    Having created numerous products during my career, I can tell you that I always got tech support questions about something that's clearly explained in the documentation. Doesn't matter how those docs are distributed either. People will STILL not get it even if you came to their house and set it up for them.
    A printed manual costs money to produce and then you're stuck with it if you make a change to the product. Video is better than text and photos because you can show people how to do things but they still have to be able to grok it. There will always be people who are really painfully stupid and shouldn't be using your products. That can't be fixed because that would involve those people realizing that they are stupid which is an infinite loop.

  63. it's worse than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of them don't even provide pdf manuals online any more, either. At best, there is some totally disorganized FAQ that tells you you should try rebooting, or else power cycling.

    When there is a manual, it contains no useful information. When there is a manual, it is written by Chinese or Japanese people who incorrectly believe they are fluent in English. When there is a manual, it is totally disorganized and unusable. This problem began when engineers stopped writing manuals and handed it over to "technical writers," people who write about, but do not understand, technical stuff. It was soon discovered that the manuals written by these morons were of no value to anyone besides other morons, so it turned out to be cheaper to fire the "technical writers" and create peer-to-peer forums, where people could offer wrong information to each other and feel righteous about it.

  64. I come from the time by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

    when you would get the model number off something check and see if the manufacturer was still in business and then call or write a letter requesting a manual.
    It does not bother me at all, the first thing I do is download a pdf now. Actually better because I get instantaneous gratification most of the time.

    The other thing I have noticed is I buy very few books now, don't go to the library much anymore. But more interesting is I don't print save an archive information, I usually recall the search terms to display what I need at the time. Often don't try and save the information itself, just try and commit the search used to memory.
    But that brings up one thing, what happens if the internet goes down, it's back to the stone ages I guess ;) lol

    Just my 2 cents ;)

  65. Dinosaurs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every year, this one customer answers in our customer survey that he's still waiting for us to offer printed manuals for our product. We're a SaaS company (CMS product), our product changes over time and has online help articles for almost everything. For some reason the fact that he pluralized "manual" is the biggest howler to me; only one person ever requests this; we wouldn't have to print more than one!

    I NEVER want a printed manual for something that won't work if I'm not connected to the internet...I'll just Google it and a 3rd party has probably written a blog article better than the official documentation!

  66. Paper isn't Agile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with a paper manual is that someone, like you, might keep it for 30 years. Nothing made with modern technology will work the same way in the same context 30 years from now. The idea is to get the product to consumers as fast as possible, and fix any problems as fast as you can. Once you've published a manual, you have a "contract" with the users and you can't change any of those things without making the manual out-of-date. That means you can't change anything, but bug fixes, and you're out of business. Far better to have a manual wiki, where you can change things as you change the product. Even hardware products change all the time when you install the mandatory monthly software updates. Only a steampunk gear driven product would have a paper manual.

  67. TLDR by Zorro · · Score: 1

    No one has the attention span to RTFM anymore.

  68. Too hard to keep current by techguymatt · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this. Printed manuals are out of date before they are off the printer. It's much easier to update a PDF online and just provide links to the always up to date PDF.

  69. QuickStart guides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where unnecessary they were dropped. Where necessary they were replaced with the one-page quickstart guide. The Internet (forums, Google, etc.) is superior for most purposes because it can cover far more ground, in far more detail, with up-to-the-minute data (my OTA update failed, now what?) and without any distribution costs or hiccups. Hiccups like forgetting where you stuck the manual for your printer eight years ago when you unpacked it.

  70. the 80's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a kid in the 80's, I knew games came in cool boxes with beautiful manuals. But all of mine came from BBSs and I would have to figure out the controls by trying each key and writing down what it did....
    Those were the days :)

  71. Dude, we use web sites and PDF by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    The websites and PDF are more easily changed when one of the users realize that our product has major problems when held upside down in a closet during a full moon.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  72. Re:The same reason you don't get invoices in the m by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when they don't make their old manuals available online in a way that lets search engines find them.

    That's where the physical manual comes in...

  73. Companies think they don't need tech writers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of manufacturers think their engineers can also write product manuals. That's how you end up with some of the shittiest documentation ever. Very few engineers can actually write documentation worth a damn, and pretty much all of them would rather be doing something else ("real work").

    Many vendors are content to let documentation die in place, with senior management pocketing money that could otherwise be spent on someone with UX experience who can advocate for the end user.

  74. Include a PDF pre-installed by rklrkl · · Score: 2

    Include a PDF pre-installed on the device - if your device's screen isn't good enough to view PDFs, then you've bought the wrong device -)

    The PDF should include a URL for downloading the latest version of the PDF. I get annoyed when manufacturers release a new firmware or software update that changes or add features and don't revise the manual to match.

    1. Re:Include a PDF pre-installed by sanf780 · · Score: 1

      And where do you get the guide to troubleshoot "screen does not turn on"?

    2. Re:Include a PDF pre-installed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      step 1. buy a new device
      step 2. there is no step 2

      at least, that's what the manufacturers want you to do when the product breaks 3 days after the warranty ends, or you fuck it up so badly that nothing works anymore.

    3. Re:Include a PDF pre-installed by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      That only helps for a device that can show PDFs themselves, not a bluetooth speaker. For a Kindle, sure, as long as it's incredibly obvious how to find it.

      (I'm mostly commenting to undo a moderation mistake, though.)

  75. use by LazarusQLong · · Score: 1

    Hi, I think it is probably because so few people ever read the manual, coupled with economics... maybe a little HCI dreaming as well. Back in the 80's and 90's, even then when applications were mostly user unfriendly, many people didn't read the manual, it seemed that only a rare few ever did, then in the 90's people started worrying about user interfaces, so business types figured they could save some money by not printing the manuals, and claim they were 'green' in some sense too. Just what I recall from those days when there were manuals.

    --
    "Governments have been dominated by the corporate entities and citizens have ceased to matter in public policy" true in
  76. What a bunch of cynics by ve3oat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have many fond memories of installing WordPerfect 5.1 on my office computer and taking the manual home to study on my own time. The manual explained almost everything you could do at that time in WordPerfect, in plain English, step by step, and with short examples. Thanks to the manual I learned how to do many things that I never actually had to myself and was often called upon by others in the office to help them. Several of us were of the same mind and studied the manual. Oh, the amazing things that got done there because several of us knew how to do extra things. I believe that manual helped to make WordPerfect the word processor of choice at that time. What a cynical, stoopid, useless time we live in now.

    1. Re:What a bunch of cynics by thegreatbob · · Score: 2

      When I was rather young, I used to occupy much of my time reading such non-fiction works :) Definitely helped me form a lot of mental connections that help me to this day, even if the actual subject matter was largely irrelevant to anything I would ever do.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    2. Re:What a bunch of cynics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is what passes as a first level Microsoft certification book these days....

    3. Re: What a bunch of cynics by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Damn. Brings back memories and I fear you are correct about the times in which we now live. I feel sorry that so many will never know what it was like to live through an age like that as an intelligent person.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    4. Re: What a bunch of cynics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that was one fine manual. It even contained a section for the various helper programs that were included. The most esoteric I remember, and actually read and used, was for the printer driver editor.

    5. Re:What a bunch of cynics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are doing it WRONG. If you were using Microsoft Office should have paid Microsoft Press extra for the luxury of getting a good manual. Or simply buy someone elses manual!

      (Sigh.)

    6. Re:What a bunch of cynics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My start with computers was in pretty much the same era. GW-Basic had a printed manual (shipped not as a book but as a binder, curiously enough) and would have been useless to me without it. QBasic on the other hand didn't come with a printed manual, but the built-in help system was stellar and many times better than any manual could ever hope to be, providing context-sensitive help, topical contents and an index.
      Back in the very early days you wouldn't even have been able to fit a decent manual in ROM. You had 32k maybe and QBasic's help file is 128k, so a printed manual was sort of necessary. Even when disks entered the scene, they were originally quite small. I've worked with 360k disks. Executable plus help file would leave you very little room use productively.
      And now we've long passed the point where computers are powerful and versatile enough that we can move away from the kind of interfaces that need a manual or help file in the first place.
      Nowadays, I find I never have to consult help files except for stuff related to programming. I do occasionally read beginner's tutorials when getting acquainted with a product to overcome the first phase of just sitting there being bewildered by it all. But after that I'll discover everything on my own very quickly.
      I have fond memories of my manuals, and I'm all for holding an in memoriam, but they're a relic of the past.

    7. Re:What a bunch of cynics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While i pretty much agree agree... this age is far from stupid. counterpoint:

      The amount of technical data and documented real world user experience available with a simple web search is so vast that printed manuals aren't very relevant in 2018. Online documention with hypertext is far more effective at getting you to the info you want. PDF manuals are available anywhere with a connection and take up no physical space and use no natural resources.

    8. Re:What a bunch of cynics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't just the manual. There was a different philosophy about the target user. I can't imagine any modern software including anything like the alt-f3 "reveal codes" function. Seriously... What an amazing way to operate.

      Man, now I'm depressed.

  77. Several reasons actually: by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1
    1) Cost of course. There is cost to printing and distributing them of course, but also cost to translate. For every manual, there is likely 2 or 3 (or more) draft versions being handed around to various people for their contributions. These days it just makes sense to do that digitally. And if all the drafts are digital, why not the released version as well?

    2) Updating: an online manual (usually in .pdf format) is enormously easier and faster than having to send out updated copies of the printed manual.

    3) Less waste: updated manuals or EOL products both mean obsolete printed material taking up warehouse space.

    4) For many consumer products, use is obvious enough that manuals really aren't needed as much as they used to be. And where manual type information and instruction is still needed, they have been largely supplanted by user forums.

    5) Even when manuals were common and very useful, a LOT of people didn't bother to read them anyway. (hence RTFM-Read The Fucking Manual)

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
  78. Why? by guruevi · · Score: 1

    a) You can download the manual from a website to read on a Kindle or iPad - most even come with a barcode on the outside to do just that.
    b) Most people are tech-advanced enough NOT to need a manual
    c) Most of the time, the manual is outdate by the time you receive the package

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  79. Because there is no docs at all? by swb · · Score: 1

    I'm less bothered by the lack of a default paper manual, but I am bothered by things that don't really appear to have any kind of documentation at all, paper or electronic. Or if they have documentation, it's like paper thin (that's a pun) and doesn't cover most of the product or only a subset of features.

    You're expected to just grok the design and figure it out, or google it somehow and find someone else who did figure it out and felt like sharing.

    I feel like the world gets more and more technical but the actual documentation for it gets less and less. More complexity and less information.

  80. Intuitive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which explains why pretty much all computers are so scarily easy to set up... incorrectly.

  81. We don't need no stinkin manuals by odinjurkowski · · Score: 0

    What is this thing called manual of which you speak?

  82. It wouldn't serve the current generation very well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most kids just starting college need remedial reading/writing courses.

    Asking them to understand a technical instruction manual?

    It is to lol

  83. I really miss having proper manuals by ASCIIxTended · · Score: 1

    I remember marking pages in my Visual Studio, Novel Netware, CorelDRAW and Wordperfect manuals. Netware in particular was a huge set of books. I also remember going through these manuals cover-to-cover to learn about these programs. Good times.

    A pdf, wiki page or other HTML help is just not the same. I want something I can stick a post-it note in.

    --
    I do not belong to the church of the lowercase 'i'
  84. If your in an industry that requires it: by WillRobinson · · Score: 1

    Our products are not for consumers. Our products are super expensive, pretty much 10 times COT's. The required manufacturing Flow Control Documents, Quality Control Documents, Identification Documents, recording of all of the above on paper, and proper filings makes up 90% of the cost of the parts.
    Documentation of API requires changes from both our company and customer, so you even need a little wag of that cost to add into the part. Or in some cases, where our customer likes to change all of the above, its about 5K every time they want to change anything before the next build.

    Otherwise for COTS having available online PDF of your language flavor I think is preferred.

  85. Tech is now the market of the unstable by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

    Do you know what's worse than not having a manual? Having a manual that tells you something outdated that no longer applies.

    Tech companies now make a profit for novelty. "Windows (10) as a service" is the perfect example - try looking up online ways to do something particularly complex on W10, and chances are you will land on a non-official blog post from, say, 2016, which has instructions to access a setting that no longer exists, or simply changed names. Bummer. Now here's the tricky part - companies change so fast, they even neglect their own documentation being up to date. And yes, Microsoft does this too.

    Microsoft is a good example because it's a company that once was known for great documentation and professional-level software QA. Now it stillbrags about that, yet more and more it hypocritically tries to follow Google's software. LOL Google - a company known for having no support at all on their software, and about as loop-hole'y as an ISP's or Utility's company support page. And no, Google Product Forums isn't support, and Google hardware support lines don't count - it's not their core business, google hardware is a branding stunt for their core market.

    Meanwhile, what these and every company right now is making sure of is they provide documentation FOR DEVELOPERS - because that's the only empathy these tech companies still find - engineers ask tough questions, so they need accessible answers. Clients? Hell no. Instead of providing documentation for the end-user, they'd rather "formulate UX" that is understandable enough that usage itself becomes the documentation.

    That is so cool, right? It is a load of bullcrap.

    Let me tell you about the perfect UX for silicon valley these days: it doesn't last long. UX right now is a tragedy because, even though my 1990's Yamaha keyboard brought a bigg-ass manual that I didn't even have to read because I learned from pressing them buttons and listening to sound, the best thing about that experience is that it didn't fucking change. It was rock-solid usability - I pressed power and it always worked like expected. No hangs, no update nags, no new search bars, no unexpected arbitrary text pasword prompt, no deleted instrument because a royalty was no longer in place, no confusion because my PEANO instrument got a typo fixed, so now I longer know if it's the right piano when switching to it mid-performance.

    You don't get manuals in today's stuff because they are a liability. You're a tech company. You push a change, and forget to update the manual, and you're gonna get users calling CS. Do this on paid, licensed, professional, critical stuff, you're gonna get sued. Another example: do you like Tesla cars and are saving up to buy that Model 3 ASAP? Imagine Elon 420 decides to push an OTA that makes you go armageddon on your 1st child's birthday. Unlikely you say? So was the weather channel getting a windows update live.

    Manuals aren't necessary because the webapp and the stores and the always-connected commandment made it all transient. If I could put a logo on Silicon Valley as a whole, it would be Hermes (the greek god) wearing a pair of Nikes with wings, and with his back turned to the viewer. Because they expect you to keep up, but don't give a fuck.

  86. the rise of transient, mimetic culture by epine · · Score: 1

    First of all, once we became networked, it was possible for 90% of everything to be propagated by word of mouth. This wasn't the case back in the 1980s. (I was there.)

    Second, if you never make a formal claim, you can't ever be wrong.

    Right around the time that most developers realized that their application could only ever be as stable as the APIs you develop on top of (the dark days began with Windows 95 and progeny) it became wise to keep a low profile on your software ever working precisely as advertised. What's your other choice? Become a lifetime expert on the care and feeding of Windows 95, 98, and next of sin? A true coding artist could write a stable program on top of Windows 95, but how long does that last in the marketplace?

    Right. Three years. Absolute maximum.

    Then, you kind of want to write in your manual: well, this function would work properly, except for that bug-ass piece of shit library underneath. But finger pointing is a dangerous game, because maybe what you're suffering from is conceptual impedance mismatch, and you might both be at fault (it takes two to tango).

    [*] But of course, a true coding artist could design an API that wouldn't elicit conceptual impedance mismatch in the first place ...

    Another thing about the 1980s: half of all software design was cramming a large thing into a tiny place. Seriously. If it wasn't a RAM problem, it was a pixel problem, or a disk sector problem. So a lot of your manual explained a host of unnatural design decisions. These are no longer primary. These days, bad design is mainly self-inflicted.

    Finally, the primary factor in application choice in the 2010s is UI style. People tend to choose a UI style they're comfortable with (there's generally a lot of choice, too, in the variables least important to long-term function and stability). Consequently, most manuals would be preaching to a self-selected choir.

    I still read the manual a lot (online). PostgreSQL isn't going away any time soon, even if there's now twenty other cloud-compatible databases. I'll read the manual for something with staying power at the drop of a pin.

    On the other hand, life is too short to read any manual with the title "xxxScript for Dummies". Don't even try. It's like machine learning, where the fastest way to fall behind is to keep up (you can either read the results of others, or pursue your own; pick any one).

  87. A manual has no value. by dark.nebulae · · Score: 1

    Since updates are delivered automatically and electronically, any printed manual that would ship with a product is pretty much out of date as soon as it is turned on.

    The android example is a good one. First it is not a pure android, so a manual from Google might not even apply (the manufacturer and cell provider can tweak it). Second, it is not a pure product, so a manual from name your hardware vendor here may not even apply (because the cell provider can change it). Your cell provider often has the last say on what is on the device initially, which apps are there, configuration etc., but as configuration they won't have a manual for all of the stuff they don't touch.

    And as soon as it is turned on and updated, any manual it might have had may not even resemble what you are looking at in the slightest.

    Besides, isn't this more about a relationship anyway? I mean, you'll bond more with a device that is more like a puzzle that you have to figure out than one that comes with a manual. Along the way, you'll want to know more about it, will do research and eventually you'll find and try all of those features you want to find in a manual, but this time you'll have a relationship with it which is more important to the vendors than an actual manual.

    Everyone loves to hate on Apple, but their products have no manuals and yet they have a huge list of fans. The missing manual isn't what garners such love from the fans, it is the building of the relationship with apple and the devices that leads to this kind of fanaticism.

  88. Shipping and rapid change distribution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shipping a paper book costs much more than printing it.
    If you print less than 1,000 copies, it is easier to use an on-demand printing solution, but if you drastically change features every quarter, then you get to do that every quarter.

    Plus, many companies were overflowing with paper manuals for every software product they bought - 200 copies of the same manual using shelf storage because each user "might" need to read it.

    In the 1990s, I lead a programming/QA team for a commercial product. One of our QA people doubled as a technical writer. The docs she made looked just like every program/computer document you've ever seen. They were big on what to press/click/type/drag, but didn't include **anything** about "why." Every quarter, we'd have a new release that would add 1-2 huge new functions and modify 50 of the minor other capabilities. All the documentation needed to be reworked for that. We had clients all over the world, so those updates would need to be translated into other languages - Spanish, German, French, Japanese, Korean, and Mandarin where the major ones.
    All of that costs money and time.
    And don't forget the taxes. If you ship paper, that is a product that demands taxes. For a software/services company in a state that doesn't tax services, that was a huge difference in accounting. Putting a directory onto a we server with {product}/{version}/docs/{lang} is much easier and more efficient for the product team and customers.

  89. Google is your friend..... by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

    Search: (Device You Own) manual. Bingo! Downloadable PDF that you can print and have a hard copy! I usually just store the PDF manuals on my computer.

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
  90. um by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because shit changes and fuck paper?

  91. Tesla does not have printed manual either by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    It has 15 inch and 17 inch screens and a user manual remotely updated and is always up to date.

    In a Tesla you can turn its A/C on, while it is in the garage and peacefully read the manual without any fear of carbon monoxide poisoning. Actually the sound system and acoustics are very good, there is no engine noise, so it is not a bad place to listen to music or to banish your kids to so that their "music" does not disturb you....

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Tesla does not have printed manual either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's great!!

      so now I have a portable living room. so why do I need a house?

      for that matter, why do I need a wife and kids?

      TESLA == FREEDOM!

  92. I've seen this episode. by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Old man yells at cloud. Don't waste my time with a shitty little book, link me to the pdf with a searchable TOC

  93. I'm just happy when there's a decent manual! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In some cases, I'd like a paper manual. But for the most part, I'd just like a decent manual. One that you don't have figure out which parts of the doc are in your language. One that's actually written by someone who speaks your language. One that gives complete information. I know. I'm asking for a lot.

  94. The Internet's better by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    when I got stuck on a programing task in the 80s I often stayed stuck. I didn't have any good teachers and only a limited # of books. And forget about a C compiler or assembler. I didn't even know they existed let alone where to get one.

    With the Internet when I hit a wall I can go on stack overflow, ask a question and 9 times out of 10 some kind soul will point out my mistake. Heck, I rarely have to do that. Odds are somebody beat me to it. Better yet, there's often 10 explanations for the same thing. That sounds redundant, but if the first 5 don't make sense #6 often does.

    The Internet's a whole new world of capabilities. There's a generation who's going to grow up with all the answers at their fingertips. And rather than make them lazy I think we'll see them spend less time learning and more doing.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  95. Tattoos by h8sg8s · · Score: 1

    Printed material is just tattoos on dead trees. Creepy..

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
  96. because they are now in the "help" menu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the software is worth anything it will have the full manual in the help menu as a fully searchable and well organized document. Devices seem to be lacking. The companies selling the device want you to pay for their experts to fix it for you, or for you to pay for a class to be taught how to use their device.

    I have been working though documentation for scientific instruments/software and feel your frustration. They last printed a book 15 years ago and it is not relevant to the current version.

  97. Because... by lusid1 · · Score: 1

    Nobody reads them anyway, and even if they did most people don't understand Chinglish.

  98. It's Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Suits got sick of /.ers answering al their questions with "RTFM," so they said to themselves, "What if there were npo manuals." Nowadays young protogeeks don't even know what even RTFM means.

  99. Wrong Question by DidgetMaster · · Score: 1

    I can totally understand why we don't get nice printed manuals that ship in the box. They are expensive to print and quickly become outdated. It is often easier to read and online version. The real question is why there is rarely an up-to-date online manual to go with the product you buy. I have often bought something that has a few links on a postcard sized manual, but the online manual is the wrong model, has decades old information in it, or is so general that you can't find the answer to nearly any question. Nearly no one provides a current, useful manual online anymore either!!!

  100. Because You Idiots Keep Buying Them Anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Therefore they don't HAVE to give you printed manuals.

  101. Small cameras esspecially need them by Joe+Branya · · Score: 1

    I've had a number of small cameras with 30x lenses. Much better than a cell phone. Both Sony and Canon cameras used to come with a manual the size of the camera and thin. It fit in the camera casse. First, there was no 10 pages of "Do not drop the camera in toilet" junk. Second, they just showed a pic of the camera and then gave you the tree of features for each setting. Short and sweet. Usually about 40 pages. If ANY manufacturer had a small camera with a manual like that it would be my next buy. They don't exist (and I've really looked).

    Why the manual and not the internet? I can circle things in the index. I can underline and mark the features I keep forgetting. I don't have to stand in a square in Montenegro, turn on my cell phone and search the internet to find the so-called manual (meaning a brochure of all the add-ons they are trying to sell you plus a long list of half-blank pages with WARNING! in size 4 type inserted by the legal team). I need the equivalent of a Linux cheat sheet.

    A note for the Japanese companies making these wonderful but barely usable $300 cameras. There is a real business opportunity here....

  102. At least a PDF is printable.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whats worse is the things that don't even have a link to PDF documentation, just a link to some shitty youtube video.

  103. Preach it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Couldn't agree more. We are lucky if there are even digital instructions at this point. Referring people to online resources, or expecting social media or the blogosphere to fill in gaps - this is unacceptable.

  104. Because Prima (or Bradly, or...) by dlingman · · Score: 1

    Why should a game developer pay for making a manual that many will ignore, when they can license the manual creation to Prima, who can charge them an inflated price for it? And include the walkthrough and database dump at the same time.

    What - you don't want/need the collectors edition manual for your stove?

  105. I have a different theory .... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    People keep saying the printed manuals are gone because "few people wanted to read them", or "that's what people want".

    But IMO, we started running into a real problem where the people making a lot of the devices and software didn't have good enough writing skills to produce good manuals for them.

    I remember really starting to see this in the late 90's and early 2000's, when the small computer reseller I worked for would receive products like new modems or I/O cards with instruction books that were really difficult to read, since they were very poor translations from Chinese. The fact we were building PCs from a bunch of components like this meant we really didn't HAVE a good set of instructions to bundle with the computers when we sold them. So we'd give customers a folder stuffed with all the little instruction sheets and the motherboard manual (which was usually the best manual of the bunch, though also questionable at times). Only the big name computer brands like Lenovo, Toshiba or HP could afford to hire people to write up decent instruction books to include. And most of those really weren't that helpful either. They wasted a lot of time with diagrams showing you where the lights, connection ports and switches or buttons were, plus any mandatory legal statements about things like FCC certifications and some really high-level overview of how to navigate a few things in Windows and any proprietary crapware they bundled on top of it. A far cry from the manuals the 1980's 8-bit era computers included, that taught you how to PROGRAM the thing.

    Every corporate I.T. job I've had has included some technical writing as part of the user support I've had to do, and I see a lot of instructional stuff put together by various colleges and universities along the same lines, for students and staff. So really, manufacturers have been able to successfully "offload" expectations in that manner too. (Why write and bundle instructions to teach you the ins and outs of setting up email on your Android phone? Your school or employer has already spent money asking someone to make you one.)

    Even as an advanced computer user now, with over 30 years of experience with the things? I still learn a lot of hidden tricks and tips for using whatever the latest operating system is on my machine when I watch the YouTube videos or read the enthusiast web sites that post about them. This stuff really SHOULD have been documented by the creators of the code. But these days, I think they just assume the knowledge gets disseminated by the Internet-using crowd, and some of the users enjoy the "Easter egg" element of surprise of discovering the stuff, even long after using the product.

  106. Paper manual are environment-friendly by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    Paper manual are environment-friendly, since they are a carbon sink. All the books in your library are made of carbon that is not in the atmosphere.

  107. And also. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are services that will print your pdf on book quality paper, bind it in any fashion you select, and ship it to you.

  108. Are you reading slashdot on paper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intentionally left blank

  109. Because we have dumbed everything down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Older software and equipment was feature rich and contained a certain bit of complexity. Now we have dumbed everything down to "push button, get prize". Everyone that speaks about how smart phones can replace computers don't realize what they are saying. Please write a 3D Figure Generator, an Office Suite, and a Photo Editor on your smartphone right now. I am thinking you can't do that, because your smart phone isn't that smart.

  110. Because no one reads them! by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    The machines we sell, use to come with printed manuals. After 5-6 years on lease, they would come back to us. 70% of the time, the plastic wrap was still on the manual. With the PDF version of the manuals, which come on a DVD, or downloaded online, they are searchable. Our repair manuals use to be printed, until the late 90's, then they switched to PDF, which I prefer over the printed one. I can edit, highlight, and most important, key word search them.

    1. Re:Because no one reads them! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Were these manuals, full of extraneous commas too? Or did you, get someone with a clue to, write them?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  111. Changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From what I understand, it's a major issue to update documentation. It's so much easier online where you can fix techical and speeling mistakes quicker.

  112. manuals have their place by swell · · Score: 2

    As a member of the Society for Technical Communication ( https://www.stc.org/ ), I created very technical documentation. My company made software for people who create circuit boards (up to 16 layers thick). Software written by engineers for engineers.

    Our users had to convert circuit diagrams into printed circuits that actually worked. Even with our software and our manuals there was an element of magic (this was 20 years ago). For instance 'noise' from one circuit interfering with another. We were in a perpetual update mode and the documentation was always a bit behind, but without it the software would have been useless.

    OTOH, I'm a Mac user and since 1984 I've never needed a manual cuz 'it just works'. Even third party software is usually designed with Mac principles and it just works. Exceptions are Adobe, math and CAD programs which still require study to use effectively. Even MS Office can get beginners to a good start without a manual. And Windows itself is almost understandable having copied Mac OS rather closely.

    Smartphones can be confusing in this early part of their evolution, but very soon standards will arrive and users will be able to move from one to another without having to relearn from scratch. Some old timers may recall the Model T and other early autos which came with many different configurations, levers, switches, gauges, doodads, etc; all now standardized. You don't need a manual to drive a Chevy or a Suzuki car.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:manuals have their place by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      "You don't need a manual to drive a Chevy or a Suzuki car."

      To DRIVE? No, you don't. But where's the gas cap release lever, or how do you set the clock, or reprogram the radio? Every model is different, and manuals can help.

      Of course, not even a THICK manual covers everything. I bought a Chevy HHR car, and one of the trip computer functions is calculating remaining oil life. But the manual doesn't cover how to reset the computer when you change the oil; I had to Google that and watch a Youtube video, because it's REALLY not obvious.

    2. Re:manuals have their place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And for some reason you can't use regular font like everyone else.

    3. Re:manuals have their place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you don't need a manual to drive a new Chevy, but you do need extensive training in driving before you drive *anything*. Car analogies are especially bad for this topic because of it.

    4. Re:manuals have their place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hipster D(_)che.

  113. Centralized control by CyberSnyder · · Score: 1

    When a manual is printed and shipped, you can never change it. If it's a file sitting on a web server, I can rev it ten times per day for virtually no cost. And you save a few bucks plus not kill a few trees.

  114. Online Updates. by xlsior · · Score: 1

    Thanks to near ubiquitous internet access, both hardware and software have rapidly increased update cycles compared to "back in the day", many of which can affect the user interface.

    In many cases, the manual will literally be outdated before it's finished printing.

    On top of that the average user is much more at ease with various hardware and software, meaning many/most people don't bother with a manual anyway. Why waste the money? The cost for including a PDF, online knowledge base or how-to is next to nothing, especially compared to printing manuals.

    Plus, online manuals have one major advantage over a paper copy: it takes literally seconds to find all mentions of a specific keyword across a 1,000 page PDF file -- good luck locating even a fraction of that info in a paper manual.

  115. No Trees Left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not so many trees left, so paper prices rise and give rise to interest in alternative media. Online cloud offers much promise, but much complication as well.

  116. No-one RTFM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scientifically proven and awarded an Ig-Nobel prize - no-one reads the f***ing manual anyway:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-09-14/nobody-reads-the-instructions-ig-nobel-prize-study-shows/10242560

  117. The "intuitive" or not phone icon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like that you bring this up, as I found a great example with Osmand. Osmand is an Android application to view maps and maybe do other things, that doesn't
    require the Internet or Google Play. Map data can be downloaded from the application, copyleft or such. Recommended!

    Fine, I have a huge area of offline maps and this will serve me if I need to find a street (I don't know if my GPS works yet, I don't know how to use navigation and think I'd end up with a depleted battery and a bike accident but the map is so precise it shows parks and building outlines).
    So, I want to add a location as a bookmark.
    My map is roughly centered above it.
    I open the menu, and then "bookmarks" [It is the general menu because it has the sandwich/burger/pancakes icon as seen in Google Chrome and Firefox!]
    There's a screen that begs me to import data and shows an "import" button in the middle! Crap, I don't have any data to import! If I had any I'd want to export not import.

    I fail to create my bookmark, so I give up. On second attempt I notice an icon bar on the bottom of this screen.
    "Flag" icon : great, this means a bookmark! Oh crap, it doesn't do anything or anything good. I don't have any bookmarks yet afterall.
    "Plus" icon : oh, this must mean it adds a bookmark. Nope! It doesn't add a bookmark and I don't remember what it does.

    I gave up, but then I found out how to add a bookmark. I will not tell you, because I want you to find by yourself.

    The software takes dozens megabytes by itself, and then you'll want some hundred megabytes for maps, contour lines, etc. Surely there would be room for a help file. Help file or manual may need to be updated? Both the application itself can download files, and it's hosted on at least two app stores/package managers which manage updates. Probably the help should be optional, and you would click a button to download it, done.
    Also, drawing the maps seems slow, but the OS doesn't include a task manager to look at how the CPUs are loaded (or not loaded).

  118. Heavy and Not Changeable by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

    Dead-tree manuals are expensive to print, heavy to ship, often contain errors, and cannot be quickly updated when you change the device. Also, not searchable. AND most people don't read them. I used to WRITE them and I never read them.

    A CD with a PDF of the manual is light and cheap, and is searchable. A line in the "Help" documentation that links to an online manual is lighter and cheaper, and the online manual is not only searchable but also updateable for errors or changes in the device.

  119. DRM killed the manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having always conected games killed the need for a manual. Once the DRM server is switched off, the game is unplayable and not ever worth collecting.

  120. Far greater numbers of software packages available by tuxisthefuture · · Score: 1

    Having played around with an Atari and Commodore 64, I first got my hands on an IBM PC compatible in 1993 when I started at secondary school. Back then I was able to read the entire manuals for the 3 pieces of software installed on them over the course of a week or so: MSDOS, Microsoft Windows 3.1 and Microsoft Works. Now I work in IT support. If I had a printed manual for Microsoft Windows 10, I would need to obtain a new one every time an update was released as the layout of Settings and other screens changes as features are removed and added. When repairing or servicing a clients computer, I often get asked how I keep up with all the changes. I explain to my clients that for me the industry is no longer about knowing the software inside and out (as I was able to achieve back in 1993). Instead, it has evolved into a research role - I have had to hone my research skills to locate the details for the specific piece of software I have been lumbered with fixing on that particular hour of the day. In the few hours I have been at a clients property, countless new pieces of software have been released online which I may be expected to now support.

  121. Purpose of manual by codeButcher · · Score: 1

    I get that paper manuals are heavy and expensive to ship, while a download is cheap. I don't mind the e-manual.

    However, the manuals for purchases seem to have become increasingly shallow. It's just a place to stick the ubiquitous CYA warnings and legalese ("Keep sharp tools out of children!" "Don't operate electrical appliance in the bathtub!"). Usage instructions are likewise so vague that it is more helpful to figure out the working of the device by trial and error.

    Document writing is an art. It is hard to be concise, clear and at the same time comprehensive. Same goes for software development documentation, by the way - good thing Agile these days puts "face-to-face communication above documentation" (good? not).

    I guess its the way things go...

    --
    Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
  122. Environmental by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Equating the environmental concerns of the manual, which few people read, is not necessary at all for the function of the device, and can be obtained in alternative formats, with the actual device itself is just utterly stupid.

    Instead look at the environmental cost benefit analysis of the printed manual vs the device itself. You'll find there's no good reason to send paper at all with any product.

    Also technical writing. No manual, paper or PDF these days even remotely comes close to the resources at hand on the internet or a dedicated book on the topic. Why settle for second best? Before the days of the internet paper manuals made sense. These days most people don't even read the manual online but rather look for other ways to solve their problems.

  123. Also, are manuals relevant ? by DrYak · · Score: 1

    For something that will barely change over a decade (like your VCR that you bought in the 80s), yes manuals would make sense, and some nerds (like us /.) were actually RTFM.

    For a modern pieces of equipment, like s smartphone :
    well, over the time the manual is written, translated, printed, and packaged into the box (should take the last couple of months of a product development cycle before shipping), the OS would have been going through several revisions, most of them changing its aspect (including changing drastically the menu structure).
    And anyway, when you take the device out of the box, you would need to install ASAP some extra security patches, which might yet again change how the software looks like.

    In other word, the device will look completely differently between back when the manual was first written and how it looks now.

    In fact if you pay close attention, this *already* did start in the late 80s and during the 90s for products that did change a lot.
    e.g.: motherboard BIOS.
    Ever noticed that back then, each mobo manual fell compelled to also give a detailled explanation of all the BIOS Setup menus ? And how these never actually matched the one you see when you turned on the mobo ? and further upgrade flashes (to support more CPU and RAM variants, etc. fix last minute bugs in some controller, etc.) introduce yet more different options ?

    10 years down the line, the mobo's manual is still relevant regarding hardware elements, like position of jumpers and connectors on the mobo.
    at the moment of unboxing, the mobo's manual is already out of date regarding the BIOS.

    Modern manufacturer have simply come to this realisation regarding devices that are mostly software driven.

    That, and yes, most people don't indeed RTFM to begin with, so nowadays even a blender won't package a manual in.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  124. Who on Earth.... by Wizardess · · Score: 1

    Who on this great blue marble in the wide universe could possibly withstand 50 pages of Chinglish, Google translations of Chinese to English?
    {O.O}

  125. Documentation costs a lot of money and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a Sr. Tech Writer for over 35 years, I can tell you the answer is simple. Good documentation is very expensive in both writer time and engineering time. Its extremely difficult to sync new product delivery with finished documentation. To find out what to write, a tech writer spends a LOT of time with the engineers that designed and created the software and/or hardware. This ties up the engineers from being productive which has a high cost in delaying new product development. Then, often early prototypes or first run items must be diverted to the tech writer to work with, grab screen shots, photos, develop procedures, etc. Reviews and validation cycles are often skipped due to time constraints. A really good tech writer can only produce 10-15 pages of content per day. A major manual can easily exceed 300-400 pages, taking 5-8 weeks to produce. Given the rapid design, build, and release cycles today, there is little time for a decent manual to be produced. So, typically today, to be competitive, equipment is shipped with minimal "quick start" documentation and a reference to a web location for the real manual. Generally, the manual isn't posted until a few weeks after the initial equipment deployment, hopefully catching up just as the major sales start to hit.

  126. The answer: logistics by hackertourist · · Score: 1

    If you create a product that has to be sold in many countries, you have to provide a manual in all those languages.

    Your options:
    1. You provide the manual for each language in every box. This gets expensive (lots of manuals to print, large/heavy box = higher shipping cost). Customers don't like getting a 900-page manual, of which only 50 pages are relevant to them.
    2. You divide and conquer. Each language or group of languages gets its own box and manual. Now you have dozens of box designs and manuals to keep track of, each with their own part number etc.
    3. Avoid the problem: stick a quick-reference guide with some pictures and a URL of the manual in the box. You get a small, light box and only one part number. And you get the ability to update the manual.

  127. It is not only consumer goods without manuals by InverseHornet · · Score: 0

    For consumer stuff a manual should rarely be necessary. But... I work in failure analysis of semiconductors. We have a lot of very expensive machines and not a single one has a proper manual. Neither online nor printed. I use a scanning transmission electron microscope, three years old, no manual. There are functions in the software even the service engineers have no clue about and no one can explain what they are there for. Correct adjustment? Troubleshooting in case of hardware failures? Some basic info, mostly written for an older and different microscope. We are talking about 3 mega euros for this tool We have gone through a few software upgrades for OBIRCH and PEM machines, used to find shorts or misbehaving transistors in ASICs. And there are several functions where we get differing infos from every one we ask at Hamamatsu. No manuals. 1.5 mega euros per tool. We run a few FIBs, focused ion beam tools, for circuit modification and nano milling of semiconductor chips. No manuals. There are options where we dont know at all how to use them. 1 to 3 mega euros per tool. I bought an AFM, atomic forrce microscope. No manual. Online manual is for a completely different software release. We are currently trying to give it back to the manufacturer as it is useless without detailed info about all the settings. Of course we get trainings for these tools. But this is no replacement for a proper manual. But the worst is, that no tool is bug free. Software that costs a several €10000 a year and it crashes again and again. There is no software for any of these tools which I cannot crash intentionally. And with each new machine it gets worse. All this crap is nowadays sold and bought by sales and purchasing people. Not engineers. Specs have to be met on paper, no one cares if it can't be used efficiently for the intended purpose by the people working with it. The days of Mr Hewlett and Mr Packard are gone, it is not surprising that Agilent and now Keysight are struggling.

  128. Because all waste is still waste. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Snidery aside, let's try to look at this somewhat seriously.

    For example, fifty grams of paper times, say, two million boxes, is one hundred tons of paper. If virtually nobody reads them, that's close to one hundred tons of manufactured and delivered waste.

    Multiply by a thousand products that, on average, used to come with that amount of extra paper, and we get a hundred kilotons of printed waste. Would that add just one percent of environmental wear, it's still a big pile of avoidable damage.

    It is a fallacy to think that, because doing A causes much more harm, also doing B won't matter. It does. If someone got injured a hundred times, one more injury would still matter. Same here.

    In this particular case, it is typically possible to download a PDF manual, likely more up to date, easier to search and easier to keep, as it is next to free to keep any number of backups, as opposed to carefully storing lots of paper.

    As for the less than obvious features on an Android phone, the weight of just one comprehensive printed manual would be quite substantial. I'm looking at the (PDF) manual for just one (fairly complex) program right now. It's 1300+ pages. Even on thin paper in a small format, that manual alone would weigh well over a kilogram.

    Put the PDFs on a smartphone or tablet and they will work just as fine even with no internet. Typically these devices works fine on couches too. One could also print the PDFs, should electronics not be an option. While print-on-demand might be hard to come by, beacuse print as such isn't in much demand any more, it's still likely someone has a good enough printer available for this pupose. Such printouts can typycally be kept neatly in binders, as opposed to the randomly sized booklets we used to get.

    While printers, like, say, horse shoes or vinyl records, may get less common, there will likely be enough of them for those who wants them, for as long a future we can imagine.

  129. Some audiences still require them by sandbagger · · Score: 1

    We've thrown the baby out with the bathwater with respect to books. Sure we can ship badly formatted PDFs to customers and forget that as far as being able to visualize very complex information, a big book can be marked up, have coloured chapter markers down the side, and lets you 'map the content in your mind' as you flip pages.

    For consumer products the Mac-ification of product design has been great. (Does anyone remember how crappy phone interfaces were before the iPhone was launched?) For enterprise-grade, technical products that may often require courses to operate, complex documentation sets are the rule and yes, paper books and posters are very helpful.

    They are also bespoke. Getting nicely printed documentation actually makes you look like you are being serviced by a grown up company that is not afraid of organizing information and making things coherent rather than throwing 'good enough' where-do-I-click articles on-line and hoping that's good enough. Alternatively it can mean you're part of a regulated industry where things have to get written down or else...

    --
    ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
  130. Millenials need youtube videos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It you can't find how to use a device on youtube. Your screwed.

  131. It depends... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything is a platform for how ever you want to use it. If you need a manual, you donâ(TM)t get it and I donâ(TM)t care. Give me your money and leave already. NEXT!

  132. Money, money, money by imidan · · Score: 1

    I see a lot of partial answers in this thread, but I wanted to list some of the steps in preparing printed documentation of the quality we had in the 80s just to give an idea of the scope of the project. This is long, but not even comprehensive.

    • You need a technical technical writer. These people are trained and experienced at writing documentation, and they cost a lot of money. If you make very many or complicated products, it might be best to have this person on staff full time. Ideally, they would sit in on meetings between the UI design people and engineers/developers so they understand the product at a basic level.
    • You need a graphic designer, to create a template for your docs. These people are also trained and experienced, and have the skills to help you create documentation that has a coherent visual hierarchy and style. You can probably just have a consultation with one to create a template you can use for many documents.
    • You need translators to localize docs. Even shipping to just Canada, you need both English and French documentation. Mostly contractors.
    • You need editors to review the docs produced by the tech writer. This second set of critical eyes is important to the quality of the document. You might contract this out, especially for other languages.
    • You need to test the docs. Engineers/devs should review the docs for accuracy, and people outside the dev process should review the docs for ease of use and correctness.

    These things would all ideally be done for online documentation, whether HTML- or PDF-based. They're all expensive, which is a big reason we don't have 80s quality of documentation, even on the web. But there are other problems with printing:

    • You need to print the docs. This happens before the product is finished and on the assembly line. Here is an opportunity for errors in the docs, because last-minute design changes make the docs obsolete.
    • The docs go in the box, adding somewhat to packaging and shipping costs.
    • With each firmware patch and software update, the docs grow increasingly out of sync with the product. Consumers don't like docs that don't match their product.
    • Since docs go out of date, and consumers lose docs and want replacements, the easiest way to provide users with the latest docs is on the web. Why bother printing in the first place, when the web is the superior means of distribution? No printing cost, no handling or shipping cost, no users angry because of obsolete docs.

    Finally, there are cynical reasons for not providing high-quality documentation. An obvious one is support contracts. Whether by phone/email or on-site visit, the company can charge a lot of money to help you use their poorly documented product.

    Or, just leave the users to their own devices. If your product is popular, the users will all jump on somewhere like Reddit and build their own documentation, some of them obsessively. Voila, free docs at zero cost.

  133. Russians, evil Russians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Russia's fault.

  134. Because it's a cold, cruel world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an avid reader of manuals, I have to concur with many of the comments already posted. Most people don't care about & never read a manual, regardless of which format it might be in. And companies don't print them because of cost. The only people who seem to care about this parlous state of affairs are you & me. And I suspect that neither of us cares enough to start a movement.

  135. mock nobel prizes by sad_ · · Score: 1

    the 'fake' nobel prizes were handed out a few weeks ago, i think there was an mention of it on ./
    one of the winners was that most people don't read manuals.

    and that is the reason why you don't get one anymore.
    i'm OK with downloadable pdf's anyway.

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.