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Ask Slashdot: Can You Install a Wifi Mesh Network in a Barn? (slashdot.org)
Long-time Slashdot reader pikester has a friend running a museum "looking to make it more interactive for visitors."
To make this happen, the museum is going to need to have good WiFi connectivity throughout the premises. The good news is that the museum is pretty small. The bad news is that it is located in an old horse barn with many metal walls. I'm hoping to put in a mesh network for him, but most solutions I've seen are pretty bulky. I'm looking for recommendations for a solution that is easily mountable in the building.
Long-time Slashdot reader Spazmania suggests it's "not terribly complicated." After setting access points to same SSID but different channels (and with the transmit power down), "walk around with a piece of free software such as Wifi Analyzer and tweak the positions and transmit power on the access points until the signal levels look good in wifi analyzer." But are there other solutions? Leave your own best answers in the comments.
Can you install a wifi mesh network in a barn?
Can you install a wifi mesh network in a barn?
This HAS the be the dumbest question I've ever seen on slashdot.
I don't think setting some routers to the Same wireless Id makes it a mesh. Look into the ubiquiti unifi AP's. These are just access points so yo need a router. They are also poe so you don't need outlets where you place the ap's
Check out Ubiquiti networks. They have great mesh networks that are small and unobtrusive, and with a controller each new adopted device with automatically gain the settings from the controller. Makes adding new Hotspots a breeze when you find a dead zone.
phew ... although I wonder how long before someone tries something like that.
Rajant has some serious wireless mesh technology you might want to check out, though it may be overkill for this application. https://www.rajant.com/
802.11ac Wave 2 devices are mesh capable. That means as long as theyâ(TM)re in range of one another, they will use MU-MIMO to maintain a trunk back to whichever devices have Ethernet available and allow users to roam between devices freely without being disconnected. However... prior to enabling mesh, yes it is advised to do as the summary says to ensure there arenâ(TM)t dead spots and be able to track down the effective range of each AP and any localized interference that may call for devices to be a little closer together or moved.
Thirty four characters live here.
This is the best advice.
Ubiquiti isn't cheap like used APs, but it isn't expensive like all their competition.
It has a centralized management solution that can be hosted anywhere with connectivity, even Amazon EC2. You can put a raspberry pi in the location and have management run on it too or any other existing Windows/Linux/OSX system there. It is java (eew), but it is java (runs everywhere) too.
It understands "grid" and will setup power output to limit overlap in a good way.
So, if your time is free, get a bunch of used APs, find power for each location, get wired ethernet to each location and fight for about a week to get things working.
Or
Install PoE Ubuiquiti APs, have the management system set the needed power for each node, and be done in a day.
Not sure one your budget but - You will need access points that will seamlessly move clients to one another (Aruba IAP105's are cheap - forget the fancy newer HT80+ stuff) or something similar from a competitor. Checkout Aruba, Aerohive, Ubiquit, Rukus, etc. Do a search for Aruba HAT - "home agent table" to get an idea of the idea of how a user is moved around between nodes. Mikrotik also has some cool stuff. Havent check them in a while. Think DD-WRT just does relay which is pretty nasty.
If it were me, i'd grab a bunch of ebayed IAP105's, or 205's if they had the cash, and link them via EoP (ethernet over power) so no backhaul wireless needed. You can stick em anywhere on that phase of the power. (check if three phase power and design accordingly)
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
Betteridge says no. It is unpossible to install a mesh WiFi network in a barn. At all. In your house sure, but not the barn. It will burn down if you try, so don't.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Similar project
A relative with an old brick-factory / barn used as a WW1 museum in Italy. All kinds of metal objects inside (huge tank shells, etc.), extremely thick and solid brick walls, attached to their house/farm.
Wifi was unable to penetrate far. So I did what this says... a handful of old Wifi points, all set to the same SSID. Note that this is NOT proper mesh unless the points are on the same network, support meshing and can hand-off.
Guess what... it works. It's adequate. You couldn't get a thousand people online from it, but it's more than good enough for a school trip to walk around with an iPad or two and connect.
Why they needs an Ask Slashdot, I don't know.
P.S. Proper mesh with decent points would really show you up and likely network the entire place with only a couple of points. Slapping even a dozen points on the same SSID / different channels and then manually adjusting everything is just shit... it'll never get the performance and you have no idea whether or not you're making things worse (e.g. crowding out on channel, etc.). If you have something proper mesh-capable, more than likely it'll dial everything DOWN, not up.
so when people refer to wifi mesh their are two parts and the confuse the two...
1. The ability to have the SSID name the same "mywifiName"
2. the ability to have the nodes communicate to a central node via Wifi
The ability to all share the same wifi name and login to one SSID is a good honorable thing.
Using wifi as backhaul is frankly a hack its like the cell providers who use microwave to link sites together, yes it works but it has problems
Link your individual wifi points with string (fibre or Cat 6/5E) and your world will be a much better place
How will we monitor the animals with face recognition 24/7 otherwise?
I've been running OpenMesh units in greenhouses and barns for about 6 years now. I like them. I prefer running ethernet to each node but in a pinch I'll set them up as a wifi only unit. Total bandwidth performance cuts in half each time you make them do a wifi hop so I avoid them.
The management tools are all online and super easy. Support staff is also excellent if you ever need them. I've only had one need but boy I was impressed.
And they're like $100 per unit, kind of hard to beat that. If you can run PoE to them install is even easier.
I wish I could grant you a point for Informative. You did a great job of explaining. I agree that PoE is superior, with the metal walls in the barn.
Note sure where you are in the choosing of wifi devices, but I'd take Openwrt-compliant (i.e. supported) routers. Openwrt usually offers more levels of configuration, and works usually faster than the factory firmware.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
You're welcome. Glad I could help.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
You can run some cheap PoE routers in every location. I don't think that you'll have much of a problem in a barn with 1 or 2 APs, you probably have sufficient wide open gaps for signal to penetrate/propagate, it's unlikely you actually have multiple Faraday cages.
OpenMesh makes some decent quality low cost routers but there are others from all over China for even less that run OpenWRT on PoE
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
The new "Ask slashdot" css and its #037 background color will surely destroy a good number of your retina cells.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Maybe.
Signature has left the building.
Mikrotik has nice central administration and proper handover even with the cheapest access points and all is powered over Ethernet. Don't go the wireless mesh route. You need to power the access points anyway: Just use the network cable for both. The "cAP lite" access point comes with a wall case and a ceiling case (3.5" diameter) and is just $29: https://mikrotik.com/product/RBcAPL-2nD-307
TL;DR - buy proper mesh APs like Eeros. Run ethernet where you can between them. Let them figure the best allocation of channels and paths out.
It's a solved problem if you know the right company to choose.
Total self-promotion here. Yes, we can!
http://www.mage-networks.com/
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
No, this is the one true fork.
https://www.thegreenhead.com/2009/01/calamete-pasta-fork.php
Obviously designed by a Klingon.
Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
Did the horses each had their own power lines?
Don't know if they sell in the US but Fritz!boxes have easy mesh addons that you just put in power sockets around the house^h^h^h^h^hbarn.
https://en.avm.de/mesh-network...
Hi,
That's literally not true at all. It's not a requirement of wave 2 that this occurs- it's purely up to the AP firmware and software in question. Now, this may be something some vendors do because it's nice, but you certainly can't do it if you manually setup a bunch of wave-2 devices on different channels.
Buy a mesh AP that actually is a mesh mesh, not a hub-and-spoke mesh.
I've been using Open-Mesh (openmesh.com) products for almost a decade in a downtown area in a small town. Prior to that I was using Meraki, before they were bought out by Cisco and the price went through the roof. They work great, are easy to manage, fairly inexpensive, and have a nice dashboard. I have mostly OM2P v2 units installed with a slightly bigger antenna to transmit across streets, but a handful of these would work.
As the power flows in, the screen grows warm, another day starts, I'm at work again...
Betteridge says no. It is unpossible to install a mesh WiFi network in a barn. At all. In your house sure, but not the barn. It will burn down if you try, so don't.
Funny, but I have to counter with my favorite Dilbert quote - PHB - "It's wireless. How hard could it be to not install wires?"
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
Why would you need a Mesh network in a barn? Is this the world's biggest barn? A decently placed access point, with a quality antenna, can provide coverage for hundreds of feet in any direction.